20 ANTARCTIC YEARS LATER: BEN DUNN ON NINJA HIGH SCHOOL

[MattBrady]

by Benjamin Ong Pang Kean

Manga is no doubt the hottest thing in American and world pop-culture nowadays.

As far as Ben Dunn is concerned, that’s so 1980s.

The creator started the Texas-based comic publisher, Antarctic Press in 1984. His most popular creation, Ninja High School debuted in 1987, though he did do a proto Ninja High School comic for the 1986 BayCon. Early appearances of Ninja High School characters appeared in Extremely Silly Comics #1.

Other than his Antarctic Press projects, Dunn’s worked on Marvel Mangaverse for Marvel Comics and created and published The Agents through Image Comics.

However, he returned last week to where it all began with Ninja High School #130.

We sat down with him for his thoughts on the manga revolution that’s sweeping across the globe right now and what he has to offer after 20 years in the business. We also discussed about his return to Ninja High School after a several years’ break.

Newsarama: What're some of your all-time favorite manga/comics?

Ben Dunn: I have some many favorites it is difficult to narrow it down. I try to keep and open mind to anything that's new and different. But if I had to narrow it down to my top ten I would say: Captain Harlock, Urusei Yatsure, Ranma 1/2, Akira, Fantastic Four, Mazinger Z, Marvels, Nick Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D. (1960s), Jim Starlin’s Captain Marvel and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

NRAMA: In terms of influences, who from each side of the Pacific do you look up to as a creator (or do you call yourself a manga-ka?)?

BD: I don't know what exactly know what it means to be a manga-ka. But I have a lot of influence. My favorites are Go Nagai, Hayao Miyazaki, Rumiko Takahashi, [Katsuhiro] Otomo, Neal Adams, [Jim] Steranko, Jack Kirby and Leiji Matsumoto.

NRAMA: What're some of your current favorite manga/comics?

BD: I like to read Ultimates, Walking Dead, Knights of the Dinner Table, Love Hina, Tenchi Muyo, Blankets and anything by Ivan Burnetti

NRAMA: Looking back, what was it like to create or rather redefine/reimagine some iconic Marvel superhero characters with the Marvel Mangaverse?

BD: It was a lot of fun. I had a blast doing it. I wish they would have let me done what I originally wanted to do but I guess I was very lucky to get a crack at it. I have no regrets and I hope they let me do it again.

NRAMA: What do you think of the tsunami effect that the manga phenomenon has created in North America and the world at large?

BD: I think it is about time. It has been an artform just waiting to explode and it has. It is not part of the comic book landscape. I've always liked drawing in this form since I first was exposed to it back in 1977 on a trip to Taiwan. My hope is that both sides can learn from each other and create a whole new style that will once again change the face of comics.

NRAMA: Do you think there's a bright future for original American manga or Amerimanga or Original English Language (OEL) manga?

BD: I think so. The criteria will always be the same: People want to read good story with good art. To me it never was about if this was manga or no not but is it a good comic. There will always be a market for quality stories and art. We need to less focused on labels and more on if the material is any good to begin with.

NRAMA: Antarctic Press has been in the business since 1985. Having started AP yourself back in the days when manga was still very much in its infant form then, how, in your opinion, has AP contributed to the manga craze happening now?

BD: I think AP has done a lot to promote manga as an artform I was very much determined to bring it over as a art style and did everything in my power to do so. I would like to think that in a small way I gave people who wanted to draw in that style a chance to be published. It’s been a difficult road because of the trail we were blazing. Often the ones in front are the ones who get the bullets. However, even without vast resources or initial support we managed to hold on to our commitments and survive. The big important factor is that AP loves the medium. Loves comics and manga and we want to do our best to bring that to the industry. It’s hard when a lot of the things that AP started are never credited or acknowledged but we never let it get to us and we only look forward to our next project.

NRAMA: Looking into the crystal ball and pondering on the future, how is Antarctic Press gearing itself up for another 20 years in the business?

BD: AP is always on the constant look out for new trends and cutting edge technology as it applies to comics and manga. If it is within out ability to do it we will try it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. AP is constantly evolving and re-inventing itself. If it comes a day when paper comics are no longer being read I predict that AP will find a way to present comics and manga in a different format. It’s hard to say what will happen 20 years from now. I never would have thought AP would have survived the first 20. I would hope that new and fresh talent and creators with vision will continue to take AP into the future.

NRAMA: How would AP continue to innovate and evolve in the midst of the growing globalization of comics/popular culture?

BD: I suppose that would depend on what the world will be like. I see a time when comics will available on demand and new ways of presenting them will be invented. I think that comics will be instantly translated into any language with no time lag.

NRAMA: Ninja High School #130 hit last Wednesday. So, for those who've missed the boat or just coming on board for the ride, what're some of the important, crucial storylines or elements from what's come before this that new fans should know before jumping on board?

BD: You will need a small idea of what Ninja High School is about but it will not be needed to know a large back story to follow the new stories. My intent is the do stories that any new reader can pick up on but put enough elements in to interest the long time readers.

Ninja High School is about a high school in a town called Quagmire located in the USA. The first arc involved a student named Jeremy Feeple and his relation with a ninja named Ichi-kun (Itchy Koo) and an alien princess named Asrial. The second arc involved Jeremy's brother Ricky as he learns to become a ninja while attending high school. The new stories will continue Ricky's adventures but now his mother has opened a dojo hence there is more Ninja in Ninja High School.

The main characters in the new run will be Ricky Feeple (a ninja in training), Maddy (a girl with a mysterious past), Arthur Stein (a science student whose distant relative was Franken Stein), and some old favorites.

NRAMA: Prior to your return, Fred Perry (the creator of Gold Digger) penned a three-issue story arc. What was Fred's three-issue about?

BD: It’s a transitional story that bridges Robby Bevard/Katie Baird run on NHS to my current run. It deals with Yumei's (a female ninja in the second arc) return to Quagmire.

NRAMA: What made you come back to Ninja High School?

BD: I missed it.

I wanted my toys back basically. After The Agents, Heaven Sent and Quagmire USA, I wanted to come to the book I started.

NRAMA: Why did you decide to leave the first time?

BD: The last issue I did was #100. I left because of Marvel Mangaverse. During that time, Robby and Kaite were signed on to do 26 issues. Rather than break their contract, I let them ride it out.

NRAMA: Now that you’re back, what could fans look forward to in upcoming issues?

BD: There will be a lot of things to look forward to. I won't reveal too much but there will be a Battle Royale situation in Quagmire, a group of psychotic hot spring girls, the return of Solora and the secret of Tomorrow Girl in SmallTown.

NRAMA: How long will you be staying this time? Or is it just for AP's 20th Anniversary?

BD: I am committed for the long haul. I want to stay on until I can no longer do it.

NRAMA: Lastly, to set the record straight, what do you term your projects as?

BD: I know TOKYOPOP term theirs as Original English Language (OEL) manga for homegrown projects. We call it manga. Sometimes we label it as Amerimanga.

Ninja High School #130 hit stores Wednesday, July 20.

Update: FRED PERRY: GOLD DIGGER AND MORE

[The_Adventurer]

I didn't realise Antartic Press had been around so long. But something that's always bugged me is calling this stuff "Manga" when it's created in the US by US creators. I've been in a few "shop agruments" on the subject, and do you know how many people out there think stuff like Ninja High School and Gold Digger are actualy from Asia? Alot.


As it is, I've never had much interest in Antartic Press's titles, with the one exception of Twilight X which rocks my face off.

[Hunter]

Originally posted by MattBrady
Ben Dunn: I have some many favorites it is difficult to narrow it down. I try to keep and open mind to anything that's new and different. But if I had to narrow it down to my top ten I would say: Captain Harlock, Urusei Yatsure, Ranma 1/2, Akira, Fantastic Four, Mazinger Z, Marvels, Nick Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D. (1960s), Jim Starlin’s Captain Marvel and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

Oh geez - and to think, I actually asked him once if he was familiar with Nausicaä.

The result was pretty cool though.

Mike

[Bakema NL]

I'm not the biggest fan of manga or manga-inspired American comics, far from it, but I'm not staying away from it if something looks good to me. I have picked up quite a few Warrior nun Areala (after looking at them for over a year I guess) and Bloodshot Mary comics and some other stuff from Antarctic and must say I enjoyed them very much, Ben Dunn is a guy who knows what he's doing.

[Julio Diaz]

I was a big fan of NHS back in the late '80s/early '90s when it was Jeremy, Asrial and Itchy Koo. I lost track a LONG time ago, and the times I looked in I saw different characters and couldn't get into it. But now that Ben's back, I'm tempted to give the book another try. How lost will I be if I do?

[rogue_tomato]

Originally posted by MattBrady
NRAMA: Looking back, what was it like to create or rather redefine/reimagine some iconic Marvel superhero characters with the Marvel Mangaverse?
BD: It was a lot of fun. I had a blast doing it. I wish they would have let me done what I originally wanted to do but I guess I was very lucky to get a crack at it. I have no regrets and I hope they let me do it again.

GODDAMNIT Benjamin!!! Where's the follow-up question to that?! I would've LOVED to hear Dunn's original intent (although I loved the Marvel Mangaverse Event none-the-less )

Great interview other than that Nice to see the spotlight on "smaller" publishers... I'm a fan of their Gold Digger, NHS, their short-lived Robotech series and especially anything Ben Dunn or Fred Perry And their "How to Draw Manga" books were great (but expensive!)

Looking forward to the Fred Perry interview!

[Aaron]

I'm not a manga fan, but I did enjoy Dunn's take on the Marvel Universe. Aside from the standard manga take on the eyes and some of the facial features, I found his art very pleasing and clean. I, too, would love to know what the original intent for the Mangaverse was and whether or not it would have been better/worse than what actually came out. (I enjoyed them all except for the Spider-Man books and that awful Punisher one-shot.)

Aaron

[Erikonil]

Ah, the best thing coming out the AP comics right now is Gold Digger by Fred Perry. He's doing everything over there. He's defenetly on of the manga-influenced artists/writers out there that has never gotten the kudos that he deserves.

[Jed Saxon]

Originally posted by The_Adventurer
But something that's always bugged me is calling this stuff "Manga" when it's created in the US by US creators.

Why. The word "manga" is Japanese for "comic".

I've been in a few "shop agruments" on the subject, and do you know how many people out there think stuff like Ninja High School and Gold Digger are actualy from Asia? Alot.

And? Ben is half asian, half-american BTW.

As it is, I've never had much interest in Antartic Press's titles,

You missed a LOT of good titles such as "Heaven sent", "Legends from Darkwood", "Counter-Ops", "Gold Digger", "Warrior Nun Areala", "Courageous Princess", "Legacy", "Strangers in Paradise", "Private Beach", I hunt Monsters", "Athena", "Rehd", "Westside" and many more.

with the one exception of Twilight X which rocks my face off.

"You have chosen.... wisely."

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Jed Saxon

And? Ben is half asian, half-american BTW.

What's his race have to do with where the material is created?

Aaron

[The_Adventurer]

Originally posted by Jed Saxon
Why. The word "manga" is Japanese for "comic".

True, in reality. But at this point, 'Manga' has become a handly label for catagoing comics that are produced in Asia, usualy Japan. If it did just mean comic, then we'd just call them comics. Because we all speak english here, Manga has become an English word due to labeling over time.

"You have chosen.... wisely."

Wait. You're Joe Wight arn't you?

[Idiosylph]

Interviewing Ben Dunn is all well and good, but how about interviewing Fred Perry? His work on Gold Digger is dynamic, fast-paced, and has a great plot that crosses genres. Not to mention that he is able to get out both Gold Digger and his side project series Legacy on time, not to mention make time for convention stops, creating two Flash OVAs of Gold Digger, two regular webcomics, variant covers for a lot of Antartic Press' other titles, a lot of one-shots for vairous series, has contributed to the Antartic Press' How to Draw Manga books, released a CD titled "How to Draw Manga the Fred Perry Way," not to mention filler issues for Ninja High School.

And that's only in the last few years. Going further back he's got even more mini-series and adaptions under his belt. He's easily the most prolific artist/writer at Antartic Press and consistantly puts out good work.

Certainly Antartic Press has a lot of talent there. Rod Espinosa, David Hutchison, John Kantz and Chris Reed to name a few.

In all honesty, Ben Dunn returning to Ninja High School isn't a big thing for me. His work was good when the American manga movement was starting out, but now days there are so many other quality artists/writers around that his work doesn't have the shine it used to. When I read his work now I see a lot of the cliches that cause people to look down on "American Manga" and I would frankly expect more from someone calling himself the "master of American manga."

[ninjai]

Awesome! For once Manga that has clean panels and spacing...when is this going to be made into an Anime?

[MattBrady]

Originally posted by Idiosylph
Interviewing Ben Dunn is all well and good, but how about interviewing Fred Perry?Look for an interview with Fred Perry tomorrow.

from the article: Look for an interview with Fred Perry tomorrow.

MattB

[Jed Saxon]

Originally posted by Aaron
What's his race have to do with where the material is created?

Because Dunn has "manga roots".

Originally posted by The_Adventurer
True, in reality. But at this point, 'Manga' has become a handly label for catagoing comics that are produced in Asia, usualy Japan. If it did just mean comic, then we'd just call them comics. Because we all speak english here, Manga has become an English word due to labeling over time.

"Manga" is just a "trendy name" and used to separate the Japanese comics from those of the rest of the world (no matter is they are from America, Germany, Italy, France or Timbuktu) but they are just the same - comics. I find that sad. I like comics from around the world and I have no problem if José Ladronn is swiping Geof Darrows more French style or if Rod Espinosa has a style who is as detailed as Hayao Miyasakis.
And a "Manga" does not necessarily have to come from Japan. Look at people like David Hutchinson - he draws more manga-like like some Japanese people. Take away the name and you couldn't tell if it's from the Western world or from Japan.
And there's nothing wrong in copying the manga style if it's done right IMO.
Look at Fred Perry's Gold Digger. That man plays with the Manga cliches and GD is a hell of a book. Some would call it Manga, some not.
Some with Adam Warren. Him I would call a true mangaka (like Hutchinson).

It#s true that some publishers just publish comics with characters with great boobs, eyes and feets and don't understand what "manga" means, that it's another form of telling a story - and they fail, because Manga fans are quite fast in seeing if they are to be tricked.

Wait. You're Joe Wight arn't you?

Nope. I just translate his series for a German publisher and LOVE that comic book.
Joe is registered here, but IIRC he only posted here, when there was a feature for "Twilight X".

[The_Adventurer]

But, Manga isn't an art "style". Because Manga has many different art and writing styles, just like american comicbooks, and European Comic Albums, and UK Comic Magazines.

[shimra]

Originally posted by Aaron
What's his race have to do with where the material is created?

Aaron

More importantly, what's the location where the material is created have to do with ANYTHING?

The assumption behind the people complaining about americans using the word "manga" seems to be that americans are unable to create good japanese influenced stuff, and are unworthy of the name. It seems to me like the people complaining about the use of manga are pretentiuous dicks with a thing against american comics. (Feel free to correct me, though)

Why should it matter if an ignorant fan can't tell the difference between NHS and Naussica? That's clearly a result of their own ignorance, not the fault of Ben Dunn.

I'm sure there's people who don't know any distinction between a comic like Savage Dragon or Maus. That's not Savage Dragon's fault, either.

[Dildo_Baggins]

The only thing from AP that is worth my dollar is Legends from Darkwood because of John Kantz amazing art.

It still beats me why publishers aren't stabbing each other in the back just to get him.

[Libby]

Wow! This guy is really really talented. I saw a how-to-draw book by him at Waldens for just $6, and I'm so going back to pick it up. ^_^ I really hope some of his stuff starts showing up in bookstores, because my local comic book store never has this kind of thing.

[OMNIPOTENT OMELETTE]

Originally posted by shimra
More importantly, what's the location where the material is created have to do with ANYTHING?

The assumption behind the people complaining about americans using the word "manga" seems to be that americans are unable to create good japanese influenced stuff, and are unworthy of the name. It seems to me like the people complaining about the use of manga are pretentiuous dicks with a thing against american comics. (Feel free to correct me, though)

Why should it matter if an ignorant fan can't tell the difference between NHS and Naussica? That's clearly a result of their own ignorance, not the fault of Ben Dunn.

I'm sure there's people who don't know any distinction between a comic like Savage Dragon or Maus. That's not Savage Dragon's fault, either.

Well, wrong at least for me. I use manga to mean comics from Japan because that is what they call them and I understand that there are certain aspects most commonly found in manga that influence or are emulated by various western creators. But to me throwing around terms like "manga-ka" is silly. It's these people who are making the distinction between manga and just plain comics. Not I. It also sets up the erroneous impression that manga is a genre rather than the vast range of styles and subject matter that it is. It also discourages people from trying other artistic approaches or reading material simply becasue it is or isn't manga. It's all comics and it all rests on a work by work basis.

Personally, I dream of a day when we don't need such labels, where no matter who it be, Ken Akamatsu, Chris Ware, Mike Mignola, Ben Dunn, or Evan Dorken..we will all just be comic creators or cartoonists, and comic readers. A world in which we can all join hands and say, "I read comics. And My God, Liefeld sucks."

[Tivome]

Well, first of all the terminology reguarding "manga-esque" comic created by Americans has been debated to death. There are several "PC" terms out there, but the most popular one I've seen is OEL, Original English Language, manga. Non-manga fans please stop debating this issue. It's like that dub versus sub debate... just goes on and on and on... Just call it OEL manga ala Tokyopop and be done with it.

Secondly, I just want to say that I really love it when someone start off by saying "I'm not a manga fan BUT...". It's like proclaiming your manga-hating status to your fellow anti-manga fanbois before you're able say something positive about a manga. It's quite interesting how often that happens. Is reading manga akin to watching prono? Carrying a disease? ("manga root"?) ^.^

"No wonder he reads manga.. he has... MANGA ROOTS!"

Now about Ben's work... I'm quite impressed by it. This work can be called quality doujinshi and maybe sell in Comiket. But like almost all American manga-ka, I feel Bens' weakness is his drawing of real-life objects like cars and buildings. A manga-ka in Japan spend years perfecting their technical drawing so that the background objects make the story feel real; that's one of the open manga secrets. I think American manga-kas still focus way to much on drawing charas (and many suck at that still), and not enough of the objects and background. Keep up the good work and perhaps we can create work that's publisheable in a Japanese weekly anthology in a few years. Monthly anthologies.. maybe 5-10 years away.