GIFFEN & DEMATTEIS TALK DEFENDERS AND A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

Say the names Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis in the same sentence and it's hard not to smile. The two have teamed up with artist Kevin Maguire to tell stories that utilize a mixture of laughter and action that has won loyal fans, both returning from the creators’ original days on Justice League where their particular brand of storytelling started, as well as those finding them for the first time in more recent comics.

Now the two are teaming up with Maguire again for a whole new take on a set of different characters - this time Marvel's superhero group, The Defenders. Previews and descriptions of the four-issue mini-series leave little doubt that fans of their Justice League work won't be disappointed by the series when it debuts later this month.

As the earth is coming under an extra-dimensional attack by Dormammu and Umar, Dr. Strange reluctantly reunites The Defenders. Made up of the Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange, the team members spend as much time bickering with each other as they do battling their foes.

Newsarama caught up with Giffen and DeMatteis to find out more about how the creative team is
approaching the Defenders, and why they've left the Justice League characters behind. And if you thought saying their names in the same sentence made you smile, just wait until you read the way they act in an interview.

Newsarama: You pitched this idea to Marvel. How did it come about?

Keith Giffen: The Defenders is a title that's been bandied around mostly between Kevin Maguire and myself for a long time. Whenever we would talk about projects we'd like to do, inevitably, the conversation would circle around to, "wouldn't it be cool if we could do Defenders?" "Yeah! That would be so cool!" It was like the Holy Grail.

And when we were doing the I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League or the Formerly Known as The Justice League work, J.M. DeMatteis and I kind of decided that once we were done with that run, we really didn't have any more stories we wanted to tell with these particular characters. It was nice revisiting them, but we overstayed our welcome and we weren't going to do it again.

We were tossing around, "what could we do next? What should we do next?" We didn't want to break up the team again. We sort of felt like we had something good going on. This time we were going to keep it going.

J.M. DeMatteis: To be honest, it wasn't the Defenders that pulled me into this project. It was working with Keith and Kevin again.

KG: You're not supposed to say that. You're supposed say how thrilled you are to be writing Defenders!

JMD: And, of course, I'm thrilled to be writing Defenders.

KG: That's better.

JMD: Who are the Defenders, anyway?

KG: Can we have the next question, please?

NRAMA: Did Marvel embrace this direction for the Defenders from the start?

KG: We did not in any way, shape or form try to deceive Marvel.

JMD: I did.

KG: We were really up front about it. We told them: we're going to treat the Hulk like Bluto Blutowski; we're going to treat Prince Namor like Jack Benny by way of Niles Crane; and Dr. Strange is Bob Newhart; and we're just going to lock them into a room and watch them melt down. And they said, "Oh! Good! You want the Surfer?" And we said, "OK! We're going!"

Marvel's been really good about letting us tell the stories that we want to tell in our own warped,
funny, big-old-rubber-nosed way.

JMD: I don't have a rubber nose. Any more.

NRAMA: Well even without your rubber nose in possession, you guys have become well known for your humor writing. Is it accurate to describe The Defenders as a humor book?

KG: You know what? Formerly Known as Justice League, I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League, our Justice League -- I'd like to think of it as action-adventure humor. Sort of a hybrid. It's not all humor, even though that makes up a lion's share of it. There are elements in it that are serious. Even in the Justice League, OK, maybe their reaction to the threat was tongue-in-cheek as they were trying to deal with it, but the threat was really life-threatening. If they didn't deal with Manga Khan, he was going to take over earth. There was no two ways about it. And if you don't deal with Dormammu and Umar, they are going to kill you.

But it's the way they're reacting, trying to process what's going on, that I find most of the humor comes from. And if there's a difference between Justice League and Defenders in terms of tone,
Justice League is much more a good-natured kind of feel, sitting around the bar having a couple
beers with your buddies and having a few laughs. And Defenders is a little sharper edged.

JMD: So sharp that I cut myself several times scripting the first issue. In fact, I'm still bleeding.

NRAMA: Wow. That's sharp. Seriously - why do you say it's sharper edged than Justice League?

KG: People who don't like one another thrown into an awkward situation, and just start sniping at one another. They may respect one another, and they may have a need for one another, but they do not like one another. And given their options, they would not be here.

JMD: My head's spinning. I'm feeling faint.

NRAMA: Could someone get him a Band-Aid?

JMD: Thank you.

NRAMA: You're welcome. Now, Keith -- you say they don't like each other. How are they going to function in a team situation?

KG: Poorly. Once you understand the characters, you just sort of let them bounce off one another. They are, at the end of the day, heroes. And I'd like to think that the underlying motivation of a hero is: Do the right thing. Even if it's going to hurt you, even if it's not what you want to do, you do the right thing.

Namor does not want to go along with the Defenders, neither does the Hulk, Dr. Strange doesn't even want to bring them all together again. But this is what's necessary, so they go and do it. It's the right thing.

JMD: Kind of like writing sharp-edged stories. You may hurt yourself, but you just keep going. Even if there's blood all over the computer.

NRAMA: Such a sacrifice you made for this comic! So, you guys say you let the characters bounce off one another once you understood them. Describe the characters as you see them.

KG: I was actually pleasantly surprised when I was dealing with the characters. Especially the Hulk and Bruce Banner. I have not been following the Hulk's book regularly, mostly because you can't find a comic for sale within 40 square miles of my house. So when I found out that Bruce Banner was a little more aggressive and not so milquetoast anymore. That was a pleasant surprise, because that meant that he could get in Namor's face and give and take with Namor, who we're playing as arrogant, and he's always been an arrogant type of smug individual. But I think lately he's also become a little pretentious and obnoxious. And we wanted to get back to that Namor who was always sniffing after Sue Storm in the FF...

JMD: Sniffing? I don't recall any sniffing. That's disgusting!

KG: ...He's smug and he's superior...

JMD: Is he talking about me or Namor?

KG: ... but with Namor, you kind of get the feeling that he's putting it on. Dr. Strange -- he's Bob Newhart. He's the guy who doesn't want to do this. But he's got to, and he's going to do the right thing. And even though it seems as though the rest of the team has no respect for him, the subtext there is that they have an incredible amount of respect for him and maybe even a healthy dose of fear. Because, I don't care if you're the Hulk, if Dr. Strange points those four fingers at you, you think twice.

JMD: Keith points his finger at me all the time. The middle one. Look! He's doing it right now!

NRAMA: You forgot the Silver Surfer.

KG: Well, I'm going to let that be a big surprise for all the fans.

JMD: It's such a big surprise that even I don't know what it is.

NRAMA: OK, we covered the good guys. What about Dormammu and Umar?

KG: Donnie and Marie from hell. The brother-sister sibling rivalry relationship blown up to nightmarish, universe-shattering proportions.

JM: Keith is obviously working out childhood issues.

NRAMA: Aren't we all. In other stories you two have written, there are the humorous aspect of characters, but you also explore the very human side of the characters. Is that the case in this story?

KG: Yeah. That's the case whenever J.M. and I get together. A lot of that comes from DeMatteis. I always say that I plot a story and I hand it to him so he can tell me who the characters are. I know what they are. But who they are, to add the heart to the story -- that's him.

JMD: Always blaming me for everything.

KG: That was a compliment.

JMD: Oh.

KG: For instance, I didn't give John Jones an Oreo addiction. That was one of those lovely little surprises he slapped back at me.

JMD: I have no memory of that whatsoever, by the way. We're always confused about who thought what up. To this day Keith thinks I came up with "bwah-ha-ha" and I think he did. And we still don't know who thought up [editor] Andy Helfer.

NRAMA: Why do you think it's so important to explore their more human side?

KG: I've always been more interested in Steve Rogers than in Captain America, or in Reed Richards than in Mr. Fantastic. I've always been more interested in Don Blake than in Thor, Bruce Banner than the Hulk -- you might say, "well, they're the same person." But no, they're not.

JMD: He's got quite a thing for Bruce Banner. In fact he's got a thing for just about any man named Bruce.

KG: Stop! You're gonna ruin my image!

JMD: What image?

KG: As I was saying...I like to approach the characters, even if they're completely inhuman like Dormammu, from a very human angle. Why is he like this? Why does he do the things he does? How does he interact with his sister? How do I interact with my sister? OK, what if I had all these powers? How would I interact with my sister? It's just the way we approach the characters.

NRAMA: Some fans prefer to stick with the more sedate books about their favorite characters. How would you respond to someone who says Dr. Strange should be more serious than you're implying?

KG: Nobody's always serious. Well, I guess Ted Bundy is always serious.

JMD: And me...I'm always serious. Look at me now. Don't I look serious?

KG: Sigh. Look, about serious comics ... I understand that people have a certain attachment to their favorite characters. Like, as far as I'm concerned, the Fantastic Four stopped being the Fantastic Four when Kirby left. Every creator who comes on a book is going approach the book from a different angle, and I think all creative approaches to books are equally valid. Not everyone is going to like every approach to the book.

NRAMA: Even the most popular comics have detractors.

KG: Exactly. There are people out there who don't like what Frank Miller did to Daredevil. There are people out there who don't like what Straczynski did to Spider-Man. By the same token, there are people out there who love what these guys did to these characters.

JMD: Characters? Characters? Wait a minute! You mean they're not real?

NRAMA: Sigh.

JMD: Why is everybody sighing at me?

KG: Take a wild guess.

NRAMA: Since we're on the subject of popular comics having detractors, some of your fans don't like alternate directions for the Justice League, particularly recent ones coming out of DC Comics. You said not all fans like every direction. Is it frustrating to you as a creator to see characters change after you leave them?

KG: It all comes down to, it's not the way I would do it, it's not the way I would want it, but it's not supposed to be! If you're lucky enough to find a character that really fits you to a "T," enjoy it while it's there. And know that the next guy coming on is not personally attacking you by changing it, or by altering the tone a little bit.

To think, for example you said Dr. Strange, that Dr. Strange would continue being the Dr. Strange of the Lee and Ditko time, it's kind of ludicrous. These characters aren't hermetically sealed.

JMD: I was hermetically sealed once and believe me, brother, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

KG: You can't satisfy all the fans. If you try to please everyone with every direction you take with the characters, you won't succeed. You can't win. All you can do is hope you can win them over. And you know what? Comic fans are a lot more flexible than the more shrill elements would lead you to believe.

JMD: I'm very flexible. Here...watch me...

KG: CUT THAT OUT!!!

JMD: Yes, sir.

NRAMA: You think you two will be able to win the detractors over with The Defenders?

KG: Probably not. (Laughter.) No, you know what? I think if people just give us a shot, yeah, I think we can win them over. We're not looking to mock these characters. We're not looking to make fun of them or ridicule. And by ridiculing the characters, I mean also ridiculing the fans who support the book.

JMD: Can't we ridicule just a few fans?

KG: We don't want to do that. We just want to come in, have a good time with these characters, and tell a good, solid story. If you do like it, thanks a lot.

JMD: You're welcome.

KG: I wasn't talking to you.

JMD: Hey, don't you think I deserve some thanks for all I've done for you?

KG: No.

NRAMA: Aw... Well, you do appreciate those fans who support you.

KG: Yes. What I'm saying is, if you like it, thanks for your investment and voting with your dollar. And if you don't like it, well, I'll catch you on the next book. Maybe we'll connect.

NRAMA: You said you've "bandied about" the idea of a Defenders comic with Kevin Maguire for a long time...

JMD: He and Kevin have been known to bandy for hours on end.

NRAMA: Shush already!

JM: My...aren't we hostile today?

NRAMA: Well, with all this bandying, is it safe to say you two have been wanting to do a Defenders story?

KG: I actually started my career on Defenders.

JMD: So did I. I wrote it for three years back in the ‘80s.

KG: I did some of the worst artwork in Defenders history. Once again, Klaus Janson saved my ass. Klaus Janson's career back then was saving Keith's ass on every project. He did.

JMD: Too bad Klaus couldn't have rewritten some of my old stories.

KG: But yeah, Defenders is something that, as far back as I can remember, talking with Kevin, it was something we tossed around every time we saw each other. It was weird that it was something that evolved out of Kevin and me instead of J.M., but when you get the three of us together, weird things will happen.

JMD: Yeah. I once turned into a gnewt.

NRAMA: OK, what really does happen when the three of you get together?

KG: Here's something you won't believe. Marc DeMatteis, myself and Kevin Maguire had never been in the same room at the same time, all together, until about a week ago.

NRAMA: Never?

KG: In June, we made that little bit of history, but before that, we'd never been together. I hadn't seen J.M. for 13 years.

JMD: You mean we're not together now? Oh, my God! Where am I?

KG: People seem to think that because we work together, we hang out and go to football games together, but no, we kind of really fell out of touch.

JMD: I keep asking him to go out dancing with me but he keeps saying no. I guess he doesn't like gnewts.

KG: You know, it may be another 13 years.

NRAMA: I think it's because you work as a team so often that fans would assume you are together a lot. Why do you continue to work together so often?

KG: Marc and I have realized, what we have is kind of unique. What we do together is better than either one of us could do alone in that specific genre. And I think we're better than anyone else in the field. When we're together? I'll take anybody on in terms of that type of humor-driven comic. We sort of appreciated it after the Justice League stuff, and we said, "let's do other things!" So we have Defenders and Hero Squared, and we have our eyes on other stuff in the future. We're not going to just wander off, so to all the whiny fanboys, tough crap.

JMD: Oooo...what you said!

NRAMA: What is it that makes Giffen, DeMatteis and Maguire work so well together?

KG: I really don't know. I suspect it's a very delicate gossamer thing and I'm afraid to inspect it, or else I'd drop it and break it.

JMD: I dropped it once and it cracked right down the middle. My wife had to Crazy-Glue it for me.

KG: Marc and I specifically -- we're diametrically opposed; we're opposites. Marc is this mellow, reasonable, spiritual, all-around great guy.

JMD: Do go on...

KG: Really a great guy.

JMD: I'm blushing.

KG: He's sentimental...

JMD: I'm weeping as we speak.

KG: ...he's got this rich quality.

JMD: Well, I used to be rich 'til I started paying Giffen to say this stuff about me.

KG: Let me put it this way. Pissing off J.M. DeMatteis is like pissing off Ghandi.

JMD: Mooooooooooo. Oh, wait. I mean: Ommmmmmmmmm.

KG: See what I mean? Now, me... I'm a hostile troll. At best, I'm a bewildered agnostic. We shouldn't even exist on the same planet together.

JMD: Speaking of which, last night I astral traveled to Mars. It was really fun. Wanna come with me next time?

KG: I think you can tell. We're opposites, but I think we do good work. I could be wrong.

JMD: Undoubtedly.

NRAMA: I think you clearly have a lot of fans who would agree that you do good work. And I think fans of your Justice League in particular are interested in the revelation here on Newsarama by Geoff Johns that Keith Giffen is working on something for DC. I believe his exact words were, "wait until you see what he's got planned." Will Justice League fans get to see you return to any of those characters?

KG: I'm sorry. I'm not at liberty at this point to divulge what I am working on with DC. All I can say is that yes, it is a book. And yes, it will be out next year.

JMD: Not me. No DC for me. Nuh-uh. Never. Ever. Again. Not unless they ask.

NRAMA: Keith, will your DC fans be pleased with this new mystery comic?

KG: You know what? Yeah. I think so. But I think the fans that haven't liked me up to this point will be even more pleased. I'm wildly excited about this project.

JMD: Does this guy know how to hype or what?

NRAMA: Do either of you have any other projects coming up?

KG: Yeah, there's a four-issue Drax mini-series coming up that is basically my version of Lilo and Stitch. And of course, Howling Commandos coming out in October.

JMD: I'm working on the Abadazad book series for Hyperion Books. Got The Stardust Kid going for Desperado/Image. Hero Squared, of course. And our upcoming Hero Squared spin-off, Planetary Brigade. Yep. It's Giffen and DeMatteis creating their own team book! Who needs the Justice League? And some movie stuff...

NRAMA: Well, looks like we're out of time.

JMD: And Boom! Studios will be reprinting my old Vertigo projects, Seekers Into The Mystery and Mercy...

NRAMA: Out of time, J.M.

JMD: ...and The Last One. And Mark Badger and I are collaborating on new project called...

NRAMA: I said we're out of time.

JMD: Hey, how come Giffen gets to hype and you cut me off?

NRAMA: Look, we've got other interviews to do here on Newsarama and...

JMD: You're really starting to piss me off, you know that? And pissing me off is like pissing off Ghandi.

KG: Now that I think about it... you're not remotely like Ghandi.

JMD: What do you know? Hostile agnostic troll!

NRAMA: Say goodnight, Gracie.

KG & JMD: Goodnight, Gracie.

[holtom2000]

These two should host a radio show on the net. Reading them is funny - hearing them would likely be even better.
I'm not much for Marvel these days, but I will likely get this, seeing as how much I loved them on Justice League.
And you just know Giffen's DCU book is going to be something to behold.

[Bolt1033]

God love 'em, but a little goes a long way-I couldn't finish this interview-too exhausting. Good luck to them on this series, it will be interesting to see if their approach works.

[DrTzinTzin]

Originally posted by MattBrady

KG: Look, about serious comics ... I understand that people have a certain attachment to their favorite characters. Like, as far as I'm concerned, the Fantastic Four stopped being the Fantastic Four when Kirby left.

And the prize for most truthful thing ever said on Newsarama goes to Keith Giffen.

And I did like the sting in the tail about the Justice League.

And when we were doing the I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League or the Formerly Known as The Justice League work, J.M. DeMatteis and I kind of decided that once we were done with that run, we really didn't have any more stories we wanted to tell with these particular characters. It was nice revisiting them, but we overstayed our welcome and we weren't going to do it again.

[Schoolie]

I wish these folks the best of luck. We need more "fun" in the "funny books." This is especially true in the more mainstream titles from the bigger companies. It's not simply a humor book; it's a super-hero book with humor.

Kevin Maguire's talent for drawing expressions and emotions are second to none. He's a highly underrated artists. (Or is that "lowly" underrated?)

[Lobok]

I've always wondered, but I never thought to ask: How are Newsarama interviews conducted? In person, over the phone, instant messaging?

[gredenko]

The comics are funny, genius even, but reading that interview was tedious. Nothing is more annoying than reading people trying to out-quip each other. But I'll buy the books, no doubt.

[cncoyle]

Yeah, I'll just gleam over the interview (seems a bit forced, Moonie).

But dang, those preview pages have me sold!
I'll definitely be adding this to my pull list!
(Dagnabbit Marvel rassum-frassum first Spider-Man: House of M and now this, what else do you want--first dibs on my paycheck?! consarnit... )

[Greg Thompson]

I wish I had a pocket-sized version of Giffen and DeMatteis. I'd take them to dinner and let them entertain my company. We'd go on safari together and, at home, I'd dress them in pretty Barbie clothes and we'd have tea parties.

Can't wait for Defenders and especially can't wait for more Hero Squared.

[ManofTheAtom]

The Silver Surfer spent years trying to escape from Earth yet he keeps coming back to team up with the Hulk, a character that shouldn't be on a team?

I don't get it.

[ThatNickGuy]

*Sigh*

Kirby bless these two.

[Mr Wesley]

Someon needs to up DeMattis' meds. They're not working.

[Julio Diaz]

It's easy to see where the Beetle-Booster stuff came from...

Can't wait for DEFENDERS, and I need to get around to HERO SQUARED...

[Crump's Brother]

While I am not a fan of any of these characters (well, ok, maybe Doc Strange), it looks too good to pass up. And I really enjoyed both Justice League minis (and I wish DC would reprint all of the classic Justice League stories). Keep 'em coming.

[chap22]

personally, even with all the House of M and Infinite Crisis and other big things happening at the big 2 right now, THIS mini is the comic series I want to read most this year. I have always loved JMD on anything he's written, and while the toneis different than when he works solo, his collaborations w/ Giffen really, really shine. add in one of my favorite artists, and a loose collection of heroes who should be played for fun, sarcastic, and irritable (character traits these writers really do well with), and this has all the makings of a mini i will go back and re-read every year or so to bask in the joy it brings me. (jeez, i'm starting to slobber these guys a bit, huh?)

anyway, REALLY can't wait the 2 more weeks till this comes out.

[DrCool976]

I'll get this as well but given Dematties' disastrous title-ending run on the character, it would be nice if they gave a little background on the Silver Surfer's role in all this.

[jedifish]

Good interview Vaneta

Pretty funny stuff and I can't wait for the Defenders.

And once again I ask, WHERE IS HERO SQUARED? I finally put an independent title on my pull list and it doesn't show up in May and we haven't heard any information.

[The Marvel]

This could be the best new series of the year, and really the only thing from Marvel I'm looking forward to. I love these guys' Justice League series, and I hated to see how this "Infinite Crisis" crap contradicted their great work while they were doing it. Killing Blue Beetle was nothing but a cheap stunt - it didn't make the event serious for me, it just maked me literally stop buying DCU books.

Anyway, when these guys are there, you can be certain I will be as well.

p.s. HERO SQUARED came out months ago.

[Noreikas]

this team is highly creative, but a little goes a long way. The first year of JUSTICE LEAGUE was fun and inventive, but by the end of year two it was stale and never recovered.

The reunion mini ("Formerly Known as...") was alot of fun, but the sequel ("I Cant' Believe It's not.../JLA Classified") was abysmal. They definitely overstayed their welcome on those characters.

Giffen's always hit or miss with me though. Loved the concept of his LEGION even if I didn't always like everything about it. Enjoyed VEXT immensely. Hated his SUICIDE SQUAD with a passion. Couldn't get into REIGN OF THE ZODIAC.

As much as I wanted to like DeMatteis' SPECTRE, I just couldn't. While I liked some of his concepts, it just never completely worked for me.

[HartyPotter]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
The Silver Surfer spent years trying to escape from Earth yet he keeps coming back to team up with the Hulk, a character that shouldn't be on a team?

I don't get it.

Actually, he's not really on the team. He's in the book from time to time, but I think the whole point is that he's not going to in the team.

[jedifish]

Originally posted by The Marvel
This could be the best new series of the year, and really the only thing from Marvel I'm looking forward to. I love these guys' Justice League series, and I hated to see how this "Infinite Crisis" crap contradicted their great work while they were doing it. Killing Blue Beetle was nothing but a cheap stunt - it didn't make the event serious for me, it just maked me literally stop buying DCU books.

Anyway, when these guys are there, you can be certain I will be as well.

p.s. HERO SQUARED came out months ago.

ps I'm talking about the 3 issues mini-series that was supposed to begin in and was solicited for May.

[BlueThunderArmy]

So glad these guys are working again. Together, I mean. Their solo stuff is a bit erratic, two parts crap to one part gold.

[rossrichie]

jedifish --

HERO SQUARED #1 of 3 was delayed a bit. But I'm holding it in my hands right now. It'll be in stores two Wednesdays from now.

HERO SQUARED #2 of 3 is finished and going to the printers. #3 of 3 is being wrapped up right now. So they'll come out siss-bam-boom.

The Marvel -- HERO SQUARED X-TRA SIZED SPECIAL #1 shipped last January. Jedi's talking about the follow-up mini-series from BOOM! Studios.

Here's a page from issue #2:

[zhstar]

This looks really good. I've always wanted to these guys humouraous take on the Marvel Universe and I manged to find a copy of Hero Squared 1 months ago which was also great!


Huge list oof comics for sale

[jedifish]

Originally posted by rossrichie
jedifish --

HERO SQUARED #1 of 3 was delayed a bit. But I'm holding it in my hands right now. It'll be in stores two Wednesdays from now.

HERO SQUARED #2 of 3 is finished and going to the printers. #3 of 3 is being wrapped up right now. So they'll come out siss-bam-boom.

The Marvel -- HERO SQUARED X-TRA SIZED SPECIAL #1 shipped last January. Jedi's talking about the follow-up mini-series from BOOM! Studios.

Thanks. I searched your webpage and your blog but found no mention of it, although that was a couple of weeks ago when last I looked.