THE PAPER CURTAIN VIII: FROM THE HORSES' MOUTHS

[MattBrady]

Installment 8
FROM THE HORSES’ MOUTHS
by Patrick Neighly

Distribution. It’s the bane of every small publisher, made all the more difficult in the comics world by the dwindling number of retail outlets and the refusal of all but the most progressive retailers to order deeply from the “back half” of Previews. Even larger independent publishers such as Fantagraphics and Oni Press enjoy limited direct market exposure due to ordering patterns.

But rather than get caught in the whys and wheretofores of the direct market (where retailers take a financial risk with each book ordered) or alternative distribution methods (a good quarter of my total sales come from convention appearances), we’re going to go right to the source. Four very different retailers, who have agreed to be interviewed on their ordering processes for small press titles. We’ll even use my forthcoming graphic novel Texarkana as a case study, warts and all.

Our panel includes Newsarama columnist Brian Hibbs, better known as an industry leader at San Francisco retailer Comix Experience and author of the recently published Tilting at Windmills. Former PopImage editor Christopher Butcher puts his considerable industry knowledge to work at Canadian retailer The Beguiling when not providing an essential overview of Previews at www.previewsreview.com. Amanda Fisher is well known for her championing of small press titles at the newly named Muse Comics. And from San Diego, CBIA forum administrator and The End self-publisher Robert Scott weighs in from behind the counter at Comikaze.

THE SMALL PRESS

How much attention do you pay to the “back half” of Previews?

Chris Butcher: At least as much information as we pay to the “front half” of the catalogue, probably even more so. Mainstream comics are remarkably consistent, and outside of a few specific creator changes or big releases, the book's going to sell next month what it sold last month. In the back half, though, there's a lot of new product all the time. A lot of occasionally solicited books, mostly material that doesn't get much attention from Diamond or the “news” sites. It requires a great deal more attention than the same-old, and that necessity is compounded by the fact that many of our competitors don't really pay attention to it at all: It's not where they choose to focus their time or resources.

Brian Hibbs: As much as I pay attention to the “front half” – comics is comics, regardless of who the publisher is. The big four publish plenty of unsaleable material, and scores of “small publishers” produce some of our bestsellers.

Robert Scott: Probably more than it deserves and surprisingly, more than the front half. For the most part the exclusives are a static bunch. We know the characters and have sales histories for them and the creators. They also provide far more preview material, so there is no need to dwell there.

Amanda Fisher: We pay as much attention to the back half as to the front half of Previews; we look over each solicitation individually.

What qualities do you look for when considering the solicitation for a small press book by unknown creators?

CB: If it's just a Diamond solicitation, and it's a complete unknown, honestly I just order on gut feeling – and even then it's rare that we get more than a couple copies in. If something looks particularly intriguing then I'll do a Google search on the creators, but even that's rare. To be completely honest, Diamond's policy against listing website addresses is the biggest impediment to us ordering more indie comics (and we're REALLY indie friendly), as there's no easy way to find more information on a comic.

Advertising does help as publishers can ususally sneak an URL in (or at least show bigger/more art). But you've gotta sell me on your book in 50 words or less, and if I have never heard of any of you then there's not much point in taking up valuable space in that 50 words with meaningless hype or creator names. Tell me why to order your book. Make me interested.

And to be completely honest, given the availability of numerous cheap publishing options and the Internet, there's no reason that you need to be a complete unknown when you're soliciting a book in Previews. There are just too-many promotional avenues available to you ahead of time, use them.

BH: “Does it look any good?” is really the only significant one.

RS: Known creators, saleable styles, interesting pitches. A lot of books are dismissed due to poor cover layouts and weak synopses.

AF: The format of the book is often important, so we check the page count, the price, the printing schedule, whether it’s an anthology, the available artwork and the discount the publisher is offering to retailers. Often I look for types of books that we don’t already have plenty of on the shelves, so I would be much more interested in a historical fiction or biography than a new team of kids with special powers or a gruesome horror story.

Do you consider yourself adventurous or conservative in ordering small press books? Why do you pursue that ordering pattern? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

CB: Adventurous, definitely. There's a market for almost every book in Previews, and we take the opinion that eventually, however long it might take, we will find a customer for every single item in our store. We'll try out a lot of new books in search of something great, and while it's easy to get disheartened by the occasionally substandard work, the other option – a strict adherence to the same-old – is even more depressing. The weakness is that our cash flow can get tied up in product that isn't moving, but realistically that's maybe 5 books at $3 each a month; who really cares?

It's worth it to have the one successful book that your customers want, and that distinguishes you from your competition. Of course, these days I hear more and more stories about stores who only ordered five copies of Michael Chabon’s The Escapist #1 or one copy of The Complete Peanuts and selling out on the first day, so maybe I'm trying too hard.

Conversely, if we get your book and it sucks and takes a year to sell, we will hold exceedingly cautious about ever ordering anything from you again. Creators: Put your best foot forward or risk being cut off at the knees.

BH: I don't mark differences between “small press” and the “big four” – I consider myself “fiscally conservative” and “aesthetically adventurous.”

RS: Neither. Many titles will get ordered at zero to three copies and yet others including graphic novels will be ordered at 10+. I don't care where in Previews the books are solicited, I care how many, based on my 30-year fan/20-year retailer opinion, I think I can sell. Oh, I also look at the discount. Less than 50% discount will almost always negatively affect my order.

AF: I can’t say whether or not we’re adventurous with small press books, so I’ll err on the side of saying we’re conservative. We like to have a good variety of comics in stock, but a store our size can’t afford to order everything available to us, so we do have to be choosy about which comics get shelf space and which ones become special-order only. But even though we do carry many of the comics solicited every month, I suppose the weakness would always have to be that we just don’t have everything.

Are you more likely to take a chance on a graphic novel or a traditional comic book, and why?

CB: Probably a graphic novel, but if it's from the previous group of “complete unknowns” then it's more likely I'll try and find a sample of their work first. It usually happens that if an interesting/curious project solicitation has a higher unit price, I'm that much more likely to research it a little bit first as well. For publishers though, if I'm only going to sample one copy of your project up front, it probably makes more financial sense to go for a higher-ticket price...

BH: From an unknown, a “floppy,” predominantly because of the cash investment needed (especially when you consider discount issues).

RS: Periodical over graphic novel unless I have a proven track record with the creator(s) that warrant differently. I am very unlikely to gamble on an unknown $10 to $20 book and only slightly more on a $3 comic.

AF: I much prefer to get graphic novels from smaller press companies because they have unlimited shelf life. In my experience, many small press comics that want to have on-going storylines and a regular monthly or bi-monthly print schedule don’t make it very far into their own plans. When it comes to single issues, I’m getting a customer hooked on a series that may not even finish, only result in two or three issues of sales for me each year, or at best be a three- or four-issue mini series altogether. For the amount of shelf space I have available, it’s better for us to have longer-term earners when I have the choice between singles. Graphic novels, on the other hand, can stay around longer, only turn over a few times a year, and still be worth stocking.

How do you rack small press books in your store?

CB: We've got two floors. “Small press” graphic novels – anything with a spine really – are racked on the first floor by genre. Upstairs, we rack superhero and science fiction/fantasy graphic novels. Single issues are separated by publisher. Fantagraphics, Drawn & Quarterly, Oni Press, Image, Marvel, DC/Wildstorm and Vertigo get their own sections. Then “spooky” comics, “undergrounds,” and then everything else alphabetically. This is the largest section.

BH: I rack all comics, regardless of publisher, by genre.

RS: Same as all the rest, although they are grouped together as small press publishers generally don't publish enough titles to justify a dedicated (by publisher) section.

AF: The single-issue comics we rack alphabetically; the graphic novels are separated into genre sections. We have some full-faced racks and some waterfall-type racks that display only the top third of the book, and the comics are arranged into them.

Do you hold signings by unknown creators?

CB: Generally no, but we do put on events where several “unknown” creators group together along with another 'reason' that would get people out and enjoying things. Individual “unknown” creator signings go exceptionally poorly, not moving books at all. Better to be unknown than a known 'failure'...

BH: Seldom – unless they have a good guerilla marketing ability you tend to only get a handful of people show up – not enough to offset costs.

RS: As often as possible. There is something about meeting creators, especially artists, that causes readers to become invested in the success of a series.

AF: Yes we do! Any event in our store that generates customer interest in comics is a plus for us, and new creators can certainly do that!

What can small press creators do to better attract your attention in the ordering process?

CB: Mail us ahead of time. Real mail too; e-mail is second-rate for many promotions. Get your websites up in advance of your solicitation, and have product info on it. It is completely inexcusable not to have your project previewed on your website, a lesson I've had to learn the hard way. And to be honest – retailers? They are not hard to find. Do a little legwork and let them know about your project. Not everyone is going to go looking for it.

BH: Well, rule number one is Produce Great Comics. I don't need any more mediocre titles. But, at time of ordering, what I really want to see is what a page of sequential storytelling looks like. More than one, if possible, but I want to get a sense of the finished work.

Ultimately, the work is all that matters. Most small publishers have an over-inflated sense of how good their work is. No worries, I understand being a proud poppa, but my orders really rise and fall on whether I think the work is commercial.

RS: Provide content at a level that meets or exceeds the big boys. Don't play the “I'm little and I have a full-time job too, so you'll have to cut me some slack” card. Put a full issue in my hands; show me, don't tell me, how good it is.

AF: There have been several comics that have stood out to me originally because of a bit of promotional material that I received in the mail, like the Pistolwhip and Interman graphic novels, both of which I really loved. I think I would have noticed them during my regular order, but the advance promo made me look for more preview material on them and watch for the solicitations.

On the other hand, I get plenty of postcards for new series that don’t look very nice at all, with bad artwork and coloring and design, which remind me to go easy on any orders I may place for their books. Getting my attention has a lot to do with how I respond to your book, so it can go either way! But postcards, posters and even e-mails are all ways I enjoy previewing books. And we’ll hand out to our customers pretty much any promotional material we receive for them.

What can independent creators do to help sell their books in your store?

CB: Aside from the nebulous and unhelpful “generate interest in your product!,” I'd say there are three things to do.

1) Build an audience for your work before I have to choose whether or not to stock it. Use the web, serialize a story online, whatever. We ordered 25+ copies of Derek Kirk Kim's Same Difference on initials, and he had serialized the whole project online first. We sold out, multiple times. HAVE FANS.

2) Have a website with more work available. If I do a web search on your book name (or creator names), then your website should come up on the first page, and it should be immediately apparent that it's for the comic book that I'm ordering.

3) The Previews catalogue should not be the first place that retailers, or anyone really, hears about your work. Do whatever you can to ensure that it is not the case that I've never heard of your project when I open Previews. That, more often than not, is what ensures I won't be ordering your book.

RS: Create a demand. Get customers into my store asking for the books. Leave no promotional stone unturned, and if you're not selling superhero comics then start looking outside of the direct market customer base for new readers. Send me free books that I can use as loaners or offer moneyback guarantees on.

Want to do something radical? Pick 50 to 100 retailers who you know support your work. Try to limit one per city or metro area to get better coverage. Send those retailers three copies of every release free and promote them in all of your advertising, online and conventions. After a year, continue to promote these retailers but choose another 50 to 100 to get the freebies. If the books are good books, the retailers will continue to order and reorder your work and will do so over other less helpful “partners.”

AF: The biggest help I’ve had with selling books are publishers and creators with very good websites. We create a print newsletter for our customers and I am always looking for cover or interior art images for books, ad copy, reviews and biographical information for creators. Some publishers include material like shelf-talkers and flyers that I can download and print, as well, and these are always helpful. Oni Press puts up a full first issue of many of their comics in .pdf format that we can download and give to our customers as previews, Sean McKeever has a list of every comic he’s working on with a link to a cover image and solicitation information along with a release date and reviews, AiT/PlanetLar has a page of information and an image for each of their books along with review links – these are the sorts of things that help me sell the books, and because my time is always limited I generally lean toward promoting the books that are the easiest to get information about.

Are you active in cultivating an audience for small press books, or is it a "sink or swim" situation, with readers seeking them out when tired of the top publishers?

CB: We are very active in cultivating an audience for small press books. Mostly because it's been demonstrated quite clearly that delivering “more of the same” isn't going to increase our business. The people that want the Marvel and DC books are very well served by the direct market. It's not like there are people out there that desperately want Batman that can't get it (perhaps prisoners), but man, go into a comic shop this July and ask for a copy of Eightball #23 – arguably one of the biggest indie books out there, which spawned a successful and award-winning movie in Ghost World – and less than a third of comic shops in North America will have ordered it. I'm not bashing the direct market here; this is a simple truth. We cultivate an audience for books off the beaten path because they make us money, and because we feel somebody ought to. Cheers to everyone who is!

BH: We've tried to generally cultivate an audience for “good comics,” without assigning merit or blame for being from a large or smaller publisher.

RS: I'm active in cultivating an audience for comics, period. I don't care who is publishing them. Generally, I let the interests of those I'm talking to determine what books I push. I speak at libraries, I exhibit at non-comic events that I believe will have a high percentage of readers in attendance and I talk to every educator I come into contact with about using comics in their curriculum. Why? Because this is what I do for a living and I try to maximize my sales opportunities. The more diverse my inventory, the better chance of finding a match for a customer.

AF: We are active in cultivating a wide variety of customers; the books only help us to do that. I rely on many small press publishers to provide us with the books that will help us to reach the audiences that our major publishers aren’t interested in, so if the small press book will do that then yes, I am interested in cultivating a readership for it. If a small press book is offering me a poor man’s version of Superman, then it isn’t something I’m looking for and doesn’t have a special value for me just by virtue of the fact that it’s a small press book!

In your opinion, how does the small press impact the larger industry in the big picture?

CB: You mean aside from all this bullshit about indie creators getting “the call” and going to work for a “real” publisher? The small press is where about 90% of the ideas in the industry actually come from. The larger the company, the more there is to risk, the less room for radical innovation there actually is. And the less innovation there is, well, why the hell should anyone give a shit about comics at all if it's just more of the same, more of what they can get elsewhere?

Did Marvel start hiring movie writers before or after Oni Press was doing Clerks comic books six years ago? Did our “industry leaders” invest in manga? Or comics for girls at all? Hell, just three years ago Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas told us that kids didn't want to read comics for kids, and now they're pushing Marvel Age: Spider-Man on anyone who'll buy it because someone else showed them it would work first.

The comics industry is terrified of change, and the only place you can find it, real change (and not just the most recent iteration of the same character) is in the small press and out at the fringes. If you want to find out what Marvel and DC are going to be doing a year or two from now, look at what Oni, Slave Labor, Fantagraphics, Tokyopop, Viz and the like are doing right now.

BH: DC and Marvel in particular are relatively closed eco-systems – the small press is where you see most new talent “break.”

RS: It doesn't really, at least not now, because there is no “small press.” It's somewhat analogous to direct market retailers in that basically everyone is working separately rather than together to advance the industry, except that retailers have made significant strides in the last few years to pool resources.

Looking beyond that, indie/self-published books impact the industry by allowing fresh new work to be created, unencumbered by editorial and political filters of the larger publishers. Unfortunately, the quality of the work is often hampered due to not having the financial, editorial or logistical support of the larger publishers.

AF: Again, for me, it’s that the smaller presses bring more variety into the industry than the very narrow focus that our larger publishers have and many of them give us the books that appeal to readers outside of the typical comic book customer range. They round out the industry.

FINDING A HOME ON THE RANGE

As a case study in retailer ordering habits, I provided each of these retailers with sample artwork, including the final cover (not featured in the Previews solicitation) of my forthcoming graphic novel Texarkana. You’ll find some of these pieces peppered throughout this column. Unlettered sample pages can be found at www.madyakpress.com/news.html.

Texarkana is a 116-page original graphic novel presented in full color on heavy gloss paper stock, with spot UV texturing on the cover. The 6x9 book retailers for $12.95 and is listed on page 320 of the current issue of Previews. Interested retailers can order copies using code JUN042655. The solicitation copy is reprinted below:

“Explosive action and introspective character development mark this landmark graphic novel by acclaimed Subatomic author Patrick Neighly and breakout artist Donny Hadiwidjaja. In the near-future superpower Texarkana, a rookie cop uncovers a conspiracy that could plunge a continent into civil war! A unique fusion of Asia and the West!”

Not all of my efforts bore fruit, as you’ll see below!

What would your response be to the Previews solicitation if you were not given additional information such as this interview?

CB: The solicitation image is kind of mediocre, to be honest, although your name is something of a known commodity and your Black-Eyed Susan #1 by the same creative team sold out at the store this week, showing that there's at least the appearance of an audience for your work. But to be honest, I know you've got a detailed website so I'd probably just go find out more information there. Subatomic did fairly well for us, so we'd probably order numbers totaling our initials plus our first couple of reorders.

BH: The original single promotional image is crowded and too “busy” – my eye “washed right off.” That would not catch my eye going through Previews. The description is pretty darn generic – “rookie cop,” “conspiracy” blah blah blah. Heard it all before. I have no idea what a fusion of Asia and the West is, either.

RS: The first part was unnecessary and kind of turns me off. Every creator thinks they're explosive and introspective; just tell me what the story is about. As it stands I would order a few copies based on Subatomic sales, but you would need to give me more to get a strong commitment.

AF: I’d recognize Subatomic as a book that I enjoyed and so look more closely at the book being solicited, but my reaction would be that this is another sci-fi and western mishmash so my own interest would be limited. I’d also chuckle at the inclusion of “introspective character development” as part of the story solicitation, but the phrase would certainly stick in my mind.

Do you believe the final cover design for Texarkana will impact sales in your store?

BH: Yes – that's much nicer looking, and you did yourself a massive disservice by going with the “promo” image in Previews. This image catches my eye.

RS: Doubtful. I get no idea of what's inside from looking at it and it's kinda ugly. The special ink might get a second look from a few folks.

AF: I like the final cover design much, much more than the original solicitation one and yes, and I think it would sell it off the shelf better than the first.

Do you hand out postcards at your store? What effect do they have?

CB: Yes we do. Generally, quite positive if they're well designed. If they're solid postcards that positively show off the book; it will get consumers' interest up. I can't recall a time that a customer has added a book to their list because of a postcard, but many will come back asking if that “book about the [blank]” is out yet. The Anarchy for the Masses: The Disinformation Guide to ‘The Invisibles’ postcards were particularly helpful for us, incidentally, as they were promoting a new work based on a known (and assumed “completed”) commodity.

BH: I give out virtually any promo material we're given – why not, it's free! Though, like any marketing, it's really hard to ascribe hard-and-fast figures because aesthetic and mood play as much of an impact as anything else.

AF: Yes we do, and they do tend to raise customer interest in an upcoming title. Whether or not that interest results in a final sale tends to depend on the book itself.

Do you think the Texarkana postcards will help the book in your store?

CB: Definitely. These are particularly well done.

BH: Certainly; they're very eye-catching and well designed. The unifying elements are very striking. People would grab these postcards. Will they actually plop down cash for the book because of them? We'll see....

RS: You've really confused me here. A lot of folks put incredible cover images on books to entice folks to pick them up, but you are putting incredible images on postcards, none of which tie into anything with the book. [Author note: The watercolor postcard images are part of the book’s internal design.] Customers will be looking for a cover that reflects the promotional material. I think you missed the boat and that in the long run any interest they might have generated will be lost.

Do you find that posters help sales for unknown books?

CB: If the posters are any good, yes, definitely. The recent creator-owned Ex Machina (from Wildstorm) had quite a few of our customers talking. An ugly poster doesn't really help anyone, and we generally won't display it.

BH: Very hard to say – too few publishers of “unknowns” actually offer professional-looking posters to make a real judgment.

AF: Because we have window space that we can’t create standing displays in, we use a lot of posters to create displays. I think that yes, our customers notice the posters and comment on the books if they appeal to them.

If you received the Texarkana poster, would you be likely to display it?

CB: Yes, it's a gorgeous poster.

BH: It's well designed, so I'd lean towards yes.

RS: Probably not, for reasons mentioned above, unless I really like the book or if there is nothing else I feel would do a better job for me.

AF: I would say yes. I think the design would stand out enough to make an interesting addition to whatever we might have up that particular week. If I didn’t include it in a window display, we may put it inside the store instead.

Do page samples generally influence your ordering decisions? For example, how do the Texarkana page samples influence your decision to order or not order the book?

CB: Sample pages certainly influence our ordering decisions, both positively and negatively. If the interior art just doesn't work (or is of a markedly lower quality than the cover), we generally won't order a book at all (unless someone specifically requests it). Just a case of collar-and-cuffs not matching, you know. Specifically, these look like good pages and I think our customers will enjoy them. Definitely increases my confidence in the project.

BH: Page samples would be pretty much the single most important thing you can show me. The three on the URL you sent me to... well, I tweren't ecstatic. Your figures are a bit uneven, and the coloring just looks "blah" to me. I'd really want to see lettered samples before making a final judgment, but I'm leaning towards thumbs down.

To try and break it down for you: based on the Previews solicit I would have ordered zero copies – crowded art that will shrink and display in Previews poorly, uninspired text. In your 15 seconds of eye-time, my judgment would have been “pass.” If it had the same text, but the actual cover art, I probably would have gone for two copies. Having seen the interior, but balancing the cover, and “at least he's trying to market his book,” I'll order one.

RS: Absolutely. These samples, since they contain no text, tell me that this is at best an average book. The art is not impressive and does not tell much of a story on its own.

AF: Samples allow me to check whether or not the interior art resembles the cover art (often many books have very poor interior art compared to their cover and that tends to disappoint the customers), and so if I can see the interior and I’m still interested, that would encourage me to order more of the book than if I’m just hoping it arrives with good artwork.

Checking the samples for your book, a quick run over shows me that the interior does match what I expect from the cover, and that so far I like the coloring of the interior, so I’d say it was a positive influence.

Let’s talk about small press track records. If you stocked my previous graphic novel Subatomic, how does that experience influence your orders for Texarkana?

CB: Well, Texarkana was a quality book. High production values, attractive design, and it sold alright for us. I assume that this will be like the first only more-so, thanks to an art-oriented rather than design-oriented cover, and a more “forthright” subject matter (future, cowboys, guns).

RS: Sales on Subatomic, which on first look appears to be a much stronger all-around book than Texarkana, were not strong, so I will probably not be ordering as strong on Tex without heavy pre-orders.

AF: The fact I enjoyed Subatomic and it sold well for us would put your next book into a more favorable light than if I hadn’t known anything about it. I remember that I liked the print quality of Subatomic, so I would assume that the new graphic would have that same quality, and that would positively influence our orders for it as well.

Price points are a major issue in the industry. How does the $12.95 price for the full-color glossy Texarkana graphic novel compare?

CB: I think that's bang-on. It's priced the same way a graphic novel from one of the “majors” would be at around the 10 cent/page mark, particularly laudable for a color book. Although we've noticed a significant lack of resistance at the $10 or under price point, $12.95 and color is a fairly easy sell. I think that you've passed the first few hurdles with this book and gotten this particular retailer on board. Now it's down to customer reaction, and I wish you (and pretty much everyone else who decides to go the self-publishing or small press route) the best of luck.

BH: That sure sounds in line with what customers expect to pay.

RS: I expect the format to have a neutral to poor reception. $12.95 to $14.95 is a standard price point for most full size trade paperbacks and graphic novels, with most of our digest books coming in sub $10. Color might help but again, the artwork hasn't tickled me enough to have high hopes and Subatomic and Black-Eyed Susan sales don't indicate a built in fan base here, yet.

AF: I think it would be perceived as a little thin for the price point, but the fact that it’s full color and on quality paper would make up for that. I like the more digest-sized books, myself, though I don’t know that the size has any impact themselves on sales of graphic novels, at least in our store.

LESSONS LEARNED

So there you have it. On the one hand, a common cry for more – and better – information at order time; on the other, wide gulfs in personal taste that ultimately influence the bottom line for all of us independent publishers. Retailers are the key link in our industry, the gateway between readers and publishers. If you’re a reader who enjoys sampling independent voices, be sure to let your retailer know. One way you can do this is by pre-ordering books like Texarkana (give your retailer order code JUN042655), voting with your wallet. If you’re a creator publishing through a smaller publisher, help retailers help you by making samples and promotional materials available.

Next time, we’ll look at the self-published graphic novel Fire Proves Iron and talk with artist Mike Marlbrough, including his thoughts on marketing to the dual audience of readers and retailers. Will his Previews solicitation provide more worthwhile information than mine? How could it not!

Award-winning journalist Patrick Neighly is one third of the team behind Mad Yak Press (www.madyakpress.com). His new graphic novel Texarkana (JUN042655) is solicited in the new issue of Previews – ask your retailer to reserve your copy today. His previous graphic novel Subatomic is in development for television. Books for review can be sent to 768 Orizaba Ave. #7 Long Beach, CA 90804

Recommended retailers:

The Beguiling
601 Markham St. Toronto, Ontario
Canada M6G 2L7
www.beguiling.com

Comickaze & AFC Studio
5525 Clairemont Mesa Blvd
San Diego CA 92117-2342
www.comickaze.com

Comix Experience
05 Divisadero Street
San Francisco, CA 94117
www.comixexperience.com

Muse Comics
2100 Stephens #107
Missoula, MT 59801
www.musecomics.com

[C.D. White]

That Texarkana book looks hot. Do the creators have a site?

[C.D. White]

Hmm...

Those promos seem to be misleading to what the book actually looks like.

Ah,well. Still may pick it up.

[Blind Assassin]

Did Marvel start hiring movie writers before or after Oni Press was doing Clerks comic books six years ago? Did our “industry leaders” invest in manga? Or comics for girls at all? Hell, just three years ago Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas told us that kids didn't want to read comics for kids, and now they're pushing Marvel Age: Spider-Man on anyone who'll buy it because someone else showed them it would work first.

I totally disagree with this. When Joe became EIC one of his main goals was to get kids reading comics again. In this interview from three years ago (where Chris Butcher in the above quote claims that Joe and Bill said that kids didn't want to read comics), in an interview with Hero Realm, Joe Quesada had this to say:

Q: What do you believe it would take to get comics into the hands of kids? Since younger readers could be a valuable and long term investment into the industry, do you see any value to younger readers anymore?

A: Young readers are of course the future of comics. Reading comics is very much like a bike. My dad is a very well read man, he reads books constantly, probably a novel every couple of days. He hasn't the foggiest idea how to read a comic. He has trouble following which balloon follows which and which panel comes next, especially with complex pages. He never read comics as kid, wasn't exposed to them and I find this to be true of most people who as adults have trouble reading them. It's an acquired skill that is best learned at youth.

So if we don't start to cultivate a new audience, where will we be when our current one dies off or abandons us as they have in the last 5 to 6 years? Quite frankly I believe that the solution to getting kids into comics is both an easy yet complex. The complex part is getting the books into the hands of the kids, our distribution needs to improve. The word needs to get out there that we're alive and well, which I believe we're doing quite well at Marvel, and then we have to make sure that the product can get into the hands of the perspective fan. Then the easier part of that equation is make sure that our books are the best they can be. If you give a kid a great product they'll get that right away and they'll be hooked! Kids are much smarter than we've given them credit for in the past few years and they know the difference between Grant Morrison's X-Men and an issue that was written by a Marvel Assistant Editor without looking at the credits page. We've been addressing the latter part of that equation in a hard way and we're making inroads with respect to getting the books out there. Heck, 2 million free copies of Ultimate Spider-Man is no joke! Another interesting part of this equation is that our hits per title on Marvel's Dotcomics are starting to exceed the sales on the individual books. This is a wonderful sign that kids and fans in general want our product as long as we're committed to offering the best stuff out there!


Q: If you do see the value of this new customer base; how do you plan on facing possible backlash for such violent imagery as presented in easily recognizable titles as X-Men (that have been marketed towards children for decades), X-Force and Ultimate X-Men, which you promote in the quarterly report as being a part of the publishing company's books focused towards younger readers?

A: Let's be honest, X-Men has never been for 8 year olds. That's a reality that we've come to grips with this year. I have no idea what it says in the quarterly report nor do I care or think it has any bearing on who a retailer sells these books to. What's important is that we realize that there really aren't 8 year olds reading titles like X-Men and we should stop asking our creators to dumb down or take the edge off of there stories that are very viable for smart 11 year olds. Instead what we will be doing is creating books that are for that 8 year old demographic in the next year. I mean let's be real, on what planet did we ever envision Frank Miller's Born Again or Claremont's God Love, Man Kills really something suitable for an 8 year old?

Full article
here

Now, where in that article from three years ago does Joe say that 'kids don't want to read comics for kids'?? [

[Doug_Wagner]

Patrick, this is one of the most informative articles I've ever read on the relationship between small press publishing and retailers. Tons of insight and solid advice on how to be more successful. I thoroughly enjoyed it! Thanks.

[Damian]

Patrick-
Excellent article. Thanks very much for doing this. The gulf between small press publishers and retailers is an unfortunate by-product of the way the direct market works. It's very helpful to hear how real live retailers approach the Previews posterior. I appreciate you putting your own solicitation and promotional ventures on the public chopping block to do so.
Good luck with Texarkana.


Damian Duffy
duff@rehab25.net
rehab25.net
Proud publishers of WHISP: The best psychic junky comic out on the market!
Read it online. Visit the nonexistent city Tristero, U.S.A. Check out free webcomics, art, and prose.
rehab25.net
Share the sequential love.
Wow, you read this far down?

[render man]

Great topic, well done, man. I need this info.

[Ricber]

Thanks for doing this article, Patrick! Very informative. I wish more features would focus on indie comics and the struggle we go through just having people look at our work.

-Rich B.
www.sentinelsonline.com

[DanLTaylor]

Nice piece. Being a self-publisher myself I can relate. Thanks.

[OmahaPerez]

Thanks for the great article Patrick!

[Larry Young]

"To be completely honest, Diamond's policy against listing website addresses is the biggest impediment to us ordering more indie comics (and we're REALLY indie friendly), as there's no easy way to find more information on a comic. "

Diamond DOESN'T have a policy against listing website addresses; we've been listing ours in ads off and on for three years, at least.

[Christopher Butcher]

First off, thanks to Patrick for putting together a great column. I hope people find it useful.

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
I totally disagree with this. When Joe became EIC one of his main goals was to get kids reading comics again. In this interview from three years ago (where Chris Butcher in the above quote claims that Joe and Bill said that kids didn't want to read comics), in an interview with Hero Realm, Joe Quesada had this to say:

Now, where in that article from three years ago does Joe say that 'kids don't want to read comics for kids'?? [ [/b]

I was refering to the oft-quoted Quesada interview that stated that kids don't read comics (which your article actually builds towards, depending on how you read it). I believe the quote went something along the lines of "Marvel Comics were never for kids, it was always kids reading their older brothers' copies." I'm sorry I can't be more specific, I've read a lot of interviews. Marvel, whilst being run by Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas, was clearly aimed at the 16+ demographic. Even the bit you quote about how "God Loves, Man Kills" wasn't for 11 year olds, that's very indicative of the style they were aiming for, and as I said, they specifically refuted claims that their books should be for kids.

It wasn't until Tokyopop specifically hit the 7-12 and 13-16 markets and made lots and lots of money with their books that Marvel drastically re-evaluated their publishing schedule (Tsunami). Where were their all-ages or kids books 3 years ago? Even the Ultimate Universe was aimed at 14 year olds (and had to be cleaned up to make it into Wal Mart). Hell, where were their books for a female audience? Tsunami was meant to launch with a manga-style book for girls, a CHARMED-style book for older girls (Witches), and then had the girl-friendly and young-readers versions of existing Marvel characters/Marvel-style books with RUNAWAYS, SENTINEL, NEW MUTANTS, the shoujo manga NAMOR, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

While Joe Quesada may have even believed that Children and younger readers were the future of comics, he wasn't publishing anything for that demographic when he answered that interview and he didn't START until someone else had shown that company the way.

Better still, the people he and Jemas hired to START a line of innovative books for young readers and girls? Sean McKeever, Andi Watson, J. Torres, Christina & Nunzio Defillipis (amongst others). Creators working for the very companies I quoted, like Oni Press & Slave Labor Graphics.

The real innovation in this industry is not to be found at Marvel, and only very, very rarely at DC (something that most of the other panelists happened to agree with me on).

- Christopher Butcher

[whippis]

"BH: I rack all comics, regardless of publisher, by genre."

This is a small nit but at Hibbs's store comics are racked by publisher save for the "this weeks books" section.

[KyleV]

Diamond DOESN'T have a policy against listing website addresses; we've been listing ours in ads off and on for three years, at least.

I got the impression that he meant in the soliciation copy, not in the ads aka small press companies that don't advertise in Previews can't get their web sites listed.

[KyleV]

As much as I enjoyed this article, I'd like to see it done with less...um, "progressive" retailers. I'm sure the guy I bought comics from in Athens, Ohio would have a different perspective.

[Blind Assassin]

Originally posted by Christopher Butcher
First off, thanks to Patrick for putting together a great column. I hope people find it useful.



I was refering to the oft-quoted Quesada interview that stated that kids don't read comics (which your article actually builds towards, depending on how you read it). I believe the quote went something along the lines of "Marvel Comics were never for kids, it was always kids reading their older brothers' copies." I'm sorry I can't be more specific, I've read a lot of interviews. Marvel, whilst being run by Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas, was clearly aimed at the 16+ demographic. Even the bit you quote about how "God Loves, Man Kills" wasn't for 11 year olds, that's very indicative of the style they were aiming for, and as I said, they specifically refuted claims that their books should be for kids.

It wasn't until Tokyopop specifically hit the 7-12 and 13-16 markets and made lots and lots of money with their books that Marvel drastically re-evaluated their publishing schedule (Tsunami). Where were their all-ages or kids books 3 years ago? Even the Ultimate Universe was aimed at 14 year olds (and had to be cleaned up to make it into Wal Mart). Hell, where were their books for a female audience? Tsunami was meant to launch with a manga-style book for girls, a CHARMED-style book for older girls (Witches), and then had the girl-friendly and young-readers versions of existing Marvel characters/Marvel-style books with RUNAWAYS, SENTINEL, NEW MUTANTS, the shoujo manga NAMOR, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

While Joe Quesada may have even believed that Children and younger readers were the future of comics, he wasn't publishing anything for that demographic when he answered that interview and he didn't START until someone else had shown that company the way.

Better still, the people he and Jemas hired to START a line of innovative books for young readers and girls? Sean McKeever, Andi Watson, J. Torres, Christina & Nunzio Defillipis (amongst others). Creators working for the very companies I quoted, like Oni Press & Slave Labor Graphics.

The real innovation in this industry is not to be found at Marvel, and only very, very rarely at DC (something that most of the other panelists happened to agree with me on).

- Christopher Butcher

Thank you very much. I appreciate the clarification.

[jamesmith]

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
I totally disagree with this. When Joe became EIC one of his main goals was to get kids reading comics again.

Mr. Quesada swears he doesn’t care if his buying demographic is older than a generation ago. He believes success can be achieved through stronger artistry and writing—not by catering to grade-schoolers, whose influence he believes is overrated.

"I think the 8-year-old comic reader is a myth," he said. "It’s not a concern to me. A year ago, when I took that job, that’s what I was concerned with. I heard comic-store owners saying ‘Where are my 8-year-old readers?’ You know what? I don’t think they were ever really out there."

From: the New York Observer. He changed his mind, then changed it again, I guess.

[LetterpunK]

Very good article....
although I agree with KyleV.

It'd be an interesting case study to have two "indy-friendly",
along with two "big-four" type retailers.

My buddy had a store, and tried his best to accomodate both
the "cape zombies".. as well as the "indy-ites" like myself.
I heard recently that he may have gone out of business.
But.. I had noticed that his selection was becoming more
mainstream during these past couple of years, as opposed to
the first 2-3 after he'd opened.

Chris Butcher also brings up a good point about the comics
industry as a whole, being scared of change.

Hell... almost every industry is afraid of change.
That's why every record label has their version of Creed,
Britney, and Blink 182.
That's why it seems like every third movie to hit the screen
is a re-make... or worse.. used to be a t.v. show.
((I will, however be the first in line for an A-Team movie.))


So... I don't think there's any one thing that will guarantee
success... no matter what field you come from...
except getting out there and busting your ass for
something that you truly love and believe in.

I know full well that if I'm able to get into creating comics
myself, it will come down to those two things.

Good luck to anyone who's got the balls to try.

Apparently, you'll need it.

[Kolimar]

Good to know all of this. Thank you, Patrick, Matt, guys.