COME THE MICE: OEMING AND GLASS ON MICE TEMPLAR

[MattBrady]

Fans of Mike Oeming have known about it for years, and finally – well, in August - The Mice Templar will become a reality, in the form of a 25 issue (as of now) series, co-created and written by Bryan (Quixote, Ship of Fools) Glass, art by Oeming, colors by Will Quantana and Len O’Grady. The series will ship bi-monthly, with a double-sized #1 and a possible #0 issue kicking things off.

The property has been something Oeming has shown off for years now, and we caught up with Oeming and Glass to talk about the series, the characters, those other mice out in comics, and a lot more.

Newsarama: So - finally for Mice Templar. This isn't something new for you, and your longtime fans have known about the property for years. But for those for whom this is new - how long have you been working with or noodling on Mice Templar?

Mike Oeming: Mice Templar goes back to before Powers! I had done some sketches in that security booth I was working at for a few years. I had my first website up in ’98-’99 - some cool kid made it for me. I had done a short Mice Templar story and that was one of the first things up...

NRAMA: Was Bryan involved with it at that point?

MO: No - at the time, it was just me; Bryan wasn't involved yet and it was just a concept. Years later I decided Bryan was perfect to flesh this out and I wanted to work with him again.

We took that original short I did and Bryan re-wrote it, and it was presented at Baltimore Con's first More Fund book in 2003. Other than that book, it was rarely seen by anyone outside of my sketchbook stuff but it always garnished a strong reaction.

Bryan Glass: Mike and I joke a lot about my being his secret partner, as he's developed more published projects in collaboration with me than any other artist or writer in the biz, yet no one knows it—he's done more single issues with that Bendis guy, but definitely more titled projects with me bumming a ride. [laughs]

But yeah - our collaboration started back in '92 when we developed this superhero parody book that became Spandex Tights. Mike came to me in the mid-90s to develop his galactic universe for Ship of Fools. Then came the illustrated novel Quixote, 86 Voltz: the Dead Girl, and our collaborative adaptation of Raymond Feist's Magician: Apprentice for DB PRO, now a division at Marvel. So it was from a long-standing friendship and creative partnership that Mike brought me in to develop his Mice Templar universe.

NRAMA: Mike – as you said, this is something that has been around for years, and people have known about it since 2003, but have you – both alone, and then with Bryan - been working on it during that time?

MO: Well, Bryan and I have been working on it together for almost four years. It started when we went to a Robert McKee seminar on writing in NYC. I told him about it and asked him to jump on board. Not co-writing, I wanted him to fully write it based on a six issue outline and some characters I gave him.... Now it's about 25 issues and a giant cast of mice that span from their childhood into adulthood. When I said epic, Bryan went epic!

Over the past two years it has really just been hard core developing the history of this world, as well as the characters and story, and then incorporating that history into the story so it resonates. Bryan's done an amazing job.

NRAMA: Bryan – from your side?

BG: Well, I started by fleshing out Mike's original synopsis; Mike is all about the action and progression—the mythological journey—while I'm all about understanding how and why things work. Fantasy frequently bugs me, as it is always filled with its stock genre clichés: the ancient prophecy, the magic sword, the all-powerful thingamabob, etc. But I always want to know why; why is there a prophecy? Who made it? When? What were they hoping to achieve? What power or consciousness inspired the prophecy? Who made that magic sword and why is it magical...and why was it just lying around somewhere waiting for that hero to find it, etc.

Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is an amazing example of a backstory that is actually far longer than the main story it supports. But it answers all the questions of who, what, where, when, why and how?

Mice Templar is a fantasy that I felt needed a backstory large enough to justify all of the epic shenanigans we expected to put our heroes through. As a result, the backstory kept kicking the adventure into a higher and higher gear. So the history and the main story itself kept pace with each other in their mutual development, as each influenced the other.

NRAMA: Okay - all this work on it, why haven't you published it before this? What was holding it up?

MO: Other stuff. We had been doing Quixote, a whole illustrated novel and 86 Volts: the Dead Girl. That was another story I drew and then had Bryan script. So I had other commitments and I wanted to wait for the right time for Mice Templar. I knew it wasn't going to be a quick one shot or even a four issue mini; it was something I loved and wanted to commit a chunk of years to.

BG: As Mike said, he was fairly busy. But the main holdup has been developing the history and story; we have literally hundreds of pages, chronicling several thousand years of mice culture from their primitive tribal culture era through to the medieval world of the main story; the mice even have their own mythology. While we are committed to telling our main storyline, we now have so much Mice Templar material, that we can produce it in one form or another for probably the remainder of our careers.
I probably could have worked faster if Mike had been ready to start drawing sooner, but our individual paces played off one another so that now here we are, ready to go.

NRAMA: That said, was there also an issue of waiting, personally – for one or both, until you were "there" as a storyteller? That is, you wanted to reach a point where you felt comfortable with being able to deliver on what your vision was?

MO: Possibly early on, but really it was about wanting to work with Bryan again in a traditional sense. Like I said, 86 Volts was already drawn, and he talked me into adding some pages that doubled its length, but it was still already drawn, and Quixote is an illustrated novel. So this is the first real comic we are working on since Ship of Fools. After Mice Templar, I'll probably just be writing and drawing my own stuff, but Mice is going to keep me busy for awhile. That and Powers.

NRAMA: But still – while you have been busy with developing your world, by waiting until when you have, you're coming into a field after David Petersen's Mouse Guard. When you first saw Mouse Guard solicited...what was your gut reaction? Were the opportunities for mice as tiny armed protagonists over?

MO: I won't lie, I was freaked out! At first I thought that meant Templar would have to be scrapped. It really hurt. Then I saw the previews and I saw David was going for a very different vibe. Once I read it, I realized they were as similar and yet different as any superhero team book. Justice League and the Fantastic Four are both superhero books—people fighting evil in tights with superpowers in a large city—but they are completely different. Templar and Guard are of the same genre, the same specific genre, but are executed quite differently. I think most of his audience will like Templar and most of mine will like Guard, but they are very different books.

David’s book has an air of sweetness about it, and I mean that in a great way—it's very endearing, yet has an undercurrent of danger and menace...a great balancing act. Templar I think is the opposite: it's more menace and danger with undercurrents of sweetness. Opposite sides of the same coin in a way.

BG: When I started working on Mice Templar, and began to suspect how big a project it was turning into, I kept running into Redwall comparisions. I had never read any of Brian Jacques work before, but I became so concerned about it that I bought and read the initial mice-related stories of that series, and Mike ordered the animated series. Right after breathing that particular sigh of relief, we learned about Mouse Guard. After talking Mike in off the ledge—and it was only about a 6" drop from the curb to the street—I really came to love the Guard and that is due totally to David's skills as an artisan and storyteller.

I am actually anxious to see where each of the two "tails" goes in terms of story. I am certain David knows where he is ultimately going, while our initial story is complete, merely awaiting its art to be drawn.

Mike made the superhero team comparison, but I've taken to describe the differences and similarities of Guard and Templar as being more akin to Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings—pretty big shoes for any of us to be filling, I realize, but all these stories are operating within the same genre of heroic medieval fantasy. Narnia gives us children rising into heroes in a desperate world, while LotR presents us with "Release the prisoners!" I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek there, but it is an example of tone. Neither is superior to the other; they are merely told with different tones that will appeal more strongly to one aesthetic taste or the other.

NRAMA: Since Mouse Guard launched, have you had contact with David? After all, you're two dudes, not two corporations…

MO: Yes, we have. I've met him at the NYC con and gave him copies of my sketchbook with the Mice Templar stuff in it. We had previously spoken to him and the publisher about it as well, and we were all on the same page: that there was plenty of room in the market for both books. I can't say we are buds yet, because I only met him once, but I certainly love his work and we've had great correspondence.

BG: I've not yet had the privilege of meeting David, but I hope to this summer so I can get him to sign the hardback collection of Mouse Guard I'll be buying!

In retrospect, I think the timing of our two series has worked out the best for all involved. Please remember that I speak now as a writer who still feels on the fringe of the industry, working with an established professional in Mike. Mike doesn't need Mice Templar to further reinforce his name in comics; that is already done with Mike recognized as both a writer and artist...

But if Templar and Guard had released simultaneously, or if Templar had preceded Guard, I do not believe either book would have benefited. Ugly comparisons would have been made by fans on both sides. A sense of competition would have arisen despite our best efforts to deny it. Some would have negatively perceived David's work as following after Mike's, while others would have adopted an underdog attitude supporting Mouse Guard at the expense of Mice Templar. While few would judge the two books on their own distinctive artistic merits.

Why I feel so good about how this has all turned out is because David, a previous unknown in the biz, has been given this fantastic opportunity to create his own niche. His work has stood purely on it own merit without any industry politics attached; and look at how that industry has embraced him and his work. That is great; well deserved and well earned.

Mice Templar's release will now occur on the strength of Mike Oeming's name and reputation. And I hope that, following an initial round of inevitable comparison, both books will find and share their respective audiences.

NRAMA: That said - David's indicated that there's more Mouse Guard to come - worried about having a mouse-off in the marketplace?

MO: Not at all. I think most people who like Guard are going to like Templar; I think it will actually help us instead of hurting us. I also think that because I have more of a mainstream name, we can help Guard get more attention as well—not that it hasn't done that already on it's own; the book has won tons of awards! But I hope to get some people who aren't currently reading his book to pick it up. We talked about supporting each other in this tough market, so that's what we are going to do.

NRAMA: Back to Templar - let’s talk about the world and era. You’ve talked about a huge timeline, so where along that line is this set?

BG: Definitely medieval fantasy. Yet I've set out to create what I hope are genuine three-dimensional characters in a world that, while being fantasy, is still very real. The fantastic doesn't just occur because of staples of the genre.

Personally I love any genre that allows real-world flawed characters to achieve heroic status as a result of the circumstances set against them. Classic fantasy, space opera, superhero, action/adventure tales and war stories are all wonderful settings to tell such tales.

NRAMA: So who are the lead characters?

BG: Our lead character is Karic, a mere child as the adventure begins who, after the destruction of his village and the enslavement of his loved ones, learns that he has been chosen by supernatural forces to be the savior of his oppressed people. Most of the story follows his journey as he learns what it means to be a hero within as well as without, and learning to discern the wisdom of those who truly support his calling versus those who seek to thwart, manipulate or control his mission for their own political agendas.

Karic's younger sister Gabrielle, and his older best friend Leito, grow up over the seasons of the adventure, and each becomes a unique hero and heroine in the tale.

Pilot the Tall is Karic's first mentor as he embarks upon his long journey, seeking proof, then confirmation of Karic's destiny, all while preparing his student for the role he is to assume, training him in the various disciplines and martial skills of the Templar.

Cassius is a former Templar, a bitter, scarred veteran of countless battles, that hunts Pilot for his perceived crimes.

And you'll all want Deishun the Blacksmith watching your back the next time you find yourself in a fight!

NRAMA: Bryan, can you talk about the world a little more – how “fantasy” is it, given what you said and your view of fantasy?

BG: The setting is, of course, fantasy, with all of its various and assorted trappings. But the characters are as "real" as we can make them, and that affects the playing field dramatically. There is "magic," but it is presented more in the form of good and evil. There are angelic and demonic forces at work, as well as an even darker primordial malevolence, all influencing the physical world that the mice inhabit. An element that we believe is fairly unique to our story is the separation of night and day into distinct worlds, almost like separate dimensions that occupy the same space. Sleep in both worlds is inevitable, as the insect Guardians of the Dusk and Dawn will strip to the bone any that seek to cross the threshold barriers; although it is whispered that ancient Templar masters had harnessed the secret power of passing between the worlds.

NRAMA: For both of you – how do you approach the characters? Simply people as mice, or straight-ahead mice, with mousy concerns, mousy instincts, mousy behaviors, and all that goes with it?

MO: I think of them as people who have odd characteristics like tails and a really good sense of smell or hearing! But to me, they are people, especially the way Bryan has written them. The Templar themselves will have their set of abilities that separate them from other mice though. Not quite Jedi, but more than just mice fighting with swords.

BG: I'd say people as mice, but their posture and interaction is very mice-like. We have a pellet joke in issue #6. There are multiple love stories that will play out against the action. The court intrigue at the capital between King Xerxes, his consort and counselors, has been described by our letterer as an unfolding "Shakespearean Tragedy."

NRAMA: You’ve both mentioned it as we’ve gone along, but let’s hit it in real terms - how big is the project in your plans?

MO: Bigger than I ever expected! I gave Bryan a six—read it, six issue outline. He says he needs nine issues, and I'm like "Okay" lets go for it...." then 15...then 18...and we finally settled on about 25 issues! We see some characters grow from childhood into adulthood, watch them mature, learn about the cultures, cities and history. So it's pretty big in scope. Obviously Lord of the Rings is a huge influence on us both.

BG: Right - as I said earlier, the entire first story is on paper, 25 issues worth. I write obnoxiously-detailed outlines and synopsis. The scripts to issues 20-25 aren't done yet, but they're already 60% dialogued. Mike and I had an agreement that we would not begin issue #1 until we knew how it would all end, so the entire saga is bristling with things that were and portents of things to come.

We could produce 100 issues solely on the mouse hero Kuhl-En, the legendary founder of the Templar, and he's considered to be merely a myth by many in the story. And his entire life covers only one of the six Great Seasons of mouse history and culture we've chronicled. If the audience finds they really like the fantasy world we've created and want more, then we could be telling tales of the Templar for a long time to come.

NRAMA: We’ve pretty much got the A to Z covered, so…let’s hit this with the traditional close – Bryan – got a tease of the first arc?

BG: The age of the Templar has broken. In the end, their greatest enemy was themselves. The remaining Templar survivors are scattered and few. They fear, distrust and despise one another. The people blame them for the oppression under which they all now live—an insane mouse king, supported on his throne by rat advisors and enforcers. Yet King Xerxes lives in terror that one day, the scattered Templar will reunite and cast him from his throne before his promised ascendancy to godhood—or so the rat druid priests would have him believe. Thus, in addition to collecting slaves, rat raiding parties are charged with hunting down Templar survivors.

Yet all of this is unknown to our young hero Karic, who innocently plays Templar Knight vicariously through the stories told by his best friend Leito, never knowing the destiny that awaits him when his own village is the next to be raided.

But the Templar priesthood, the Readers of the Wheat, outcast by their very own order before it destroyed itself, discern the will of their Lord Wotan by reading the patterns created in the golden fields of wind-shifted wheat. Wotan has promised them a liberator, not only to free the mice race from tyranny and restore the Templar of old to glory once again, but a hero that will impact every denizen of the night world.

Thus begins this chapter in the saga of The Mice Templar.

If you're looking to be an early adopter for Mice Templar, you can pick up the Mice Templar sketchbook here and search for Mice Templar. Additionally, Image is setting up a website specifically for the series at: www.imagecomics.com/micetemplar

[Scott King]

It does seem "mouse guard" -ish. He must have freaked out when "Mouse Gaurd" came out.

[Jeremy Holstein]

Originally Posted by Scott King

It does seem "mouse guard" -ish. He must have freaked out when "Mouse Gaurd" came out.

Seeing as he says it dates to before Powers, I'd say yes.

Hopefully there's room in the market for two Mice Knight books. There's some really nice artwork on this one! Who knew mice would provide such fertile ground for comic-book art?

[J -]

Originally Posted by Scott King

It does seem "mouse guard" -ish. He must have freaked out when "Mouse Gaurd" came out.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Holstein

Seeing as he says it dates to before Powers, I'd say yes.

Also, seeing how he specifically says on the interview that he did freak out about Mouse Guard, I'd say yes as well.

[Oeming]

Hey guys, just to be clear, David Peterson and I are totally cool with each other and are openly supporting each others books.

Neither of us want any Mouse Vs. Mice stuff out there and we hope anyone who likes either book is respectful of that.


Yes, i was scared when I first saw Mouse Guard, especially because it was so good But like any superhero book is different from the next, so is Guard/Mice and theres plenty of room out there for both books. I also understand there is a REDWALL comic in the works by Brett Blevins.


So let it be known, there is nothing but peace between the Guard/Templar books

[RockLeefan]

This reminds me of the excellent "Redwall" books by brian jacques that i loved as a kid. Sadly i grew out of those books (or the quality dropped off) but i may try a bit of nostalgia in this series (and mouse guard)

[Ye Olde Iowa]

Wow, this sounds pretty incredible. I think I will be ordering a copy of that sketchbook today and I'll definitely be looking for this when it drops. I think I might have missed it in the article, but when is the estimated date for this to come out? As good as this looks and sounds, I'm excited for this one.

[Oeming]

Originally Posted by RockLeefan

This reminds me of the excellent "Redwall" books by brian jacques that i loved as a kid. Sadly i grew out of those books (or the quality dropped off) but i may try a bit of nostalgia in this series (and mouse guard)

If you like what you see here and havent tried Mouse Guard- totally check it out, especially if you like Redwall... and pre order Mice Templar for August

[JABSEN]

Finally. Been waiting for it since that ACTOR benefit book.

Awesome news. Can't wait

[ShinAkuma666]

Wow, loving the previews of this, dont know if something like this would work better in a series of mini-series or not but I am down for this. It sounds great and its nice they know where ots ending.

I will also getting the hardcover of Mouse Guard in March, like with the excellent Artesia comic, I always feel drawn to those type stories.

[CMadness]

Looks nice, Oeming. Now do you think you can get POWERS back on schedule?

[ChristopherGolden]

Mike, I remember very clearly the first time you showed me sketches for MICE TEMPLAR. I've been waiting for it ever since. Knowing it's going to be 25 issues makes it all the better. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

[HouseStark]

I'll buy both series. There's plenty of room in the market. That having been said, I'm working on a book called Cat Cavaliers. The higher on the food chain the better! J/k ... but the title does have a nice ring to it.

[PaulCrocker]

I absolutely loved Mouse Guard (I'm so getting the hardcover too!) and I'm sure I will absolutely love this.
My best friend owns a shop in my city and I will push him to carry this. Mouse Guard sold really well here and I'm certain this would be tried by all of our MG readers as well.
I just purchased a sketchbook from the link. I'll be sure let my friend/retailer have a skim of this book.
All the best to you Oeming.

[Generic Eric]

This looks like a really fun book. The concept and execution has really evolved from the original short story published a few years ago. Good luck to Oeming, Glass and company. I hope they don't have spend too much time down playing simularities to Mouse Gaurd.

[James Patrick]

Wow. Two mouse books in the market. Is their room? A Civil War book could die. The humanity. The mousemanity.

Congrats Mike, I will certainly be buying this right along side Mouse Guard.

[eltee38]

MOUSE GUARD RIP-OFF!!!



just kiddin.

[thudpucker]

Been looking forward to reading more ever since I first heard of this. Can't wait!

[tgail]

Originally Posted by Oeming

Neither of us want any Mouse Vs. Mice stuff out there and we hope anyone who likes either book is respectful of that.

How about a Mouse vs. Mice comic instead? That would be cool!

[BanMan]

This looks very very good.

[John Gallagher]

As a fan of both books, and creators, I can say that most importantly, there is always room for two quality books-- I believe these both apply-- both are now on my list-- pull list, that is!

[cromulent]

I think there isn't enough mouse books out there! Bring 'em on!
But seriously, I'll be buying both books.

[jeircho]

The least he could have done was waited a bit.

Its like Hollywood movie studios putting out movies with the same theme at the same time:

Asteroid flicks that came out the same time ARMAGEDDON and DEEP IMPACT.

The late 90s had a ton of movies that did that but none come to mind as I regard that period to be a dark one in film making -lol.

[Petersen]

Originally Posted by Oeming

Hey guys, just to be clear, David Petersen and I are totally cool with each other and are openly supporting each others books.

Neither of us want any Mouse Vs. Mice stuff out there and we hope anyone who likes either book is respectful of that.


Yes, i was scared when I first saw Mouse Guard, especially because it was so good But like any superhero book is different from the next, so is Guard/Mice and theres plenty of room out there for both books. I also understand there is a REDWALL comic in the works by Brett Blevins.


So let it be known, there is nothing but peace between the Guard/Templar books

Indeed.

For the record, I was equally 'freaked' when I learned about Mice Templar after the first issue of Mouse Guard was solicited. It's interesting to see that Mike and I both suffered from the Redwall comparisons to only then be frightened by what the other's project would end up meaning to our own. I think that fear really ends up being a compliment to the other artist, because if the work had no merit, each of us would have had no fears.

The cover of the sketchbook cover looks terrific Mike! See ya in NY!
-David

[DiManna1]

This really looks excellent. I will definitely be checking this out when it is released.