RAVEN GREGORY ON RETURN TO WONDERLAND

[MattBrady]

by Koben Kelly

Raven Gregory, writer on such series as The Gift for Image and Se7en for Zenescope Entertainment, has a new series coming out soon. The title is Return To Wonderland, and it promises to be a fantastic, fresh take on the classic Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll, as well as turning the animated staple on its head. Newsarama had a chance to sit down and have a chat with Raven concerning his latest work.

Newsarama: Distill the core concept of this series into one sentence.

Raven Gregory: Carroll Liddle (Calie for short), daughter of Alice Liddle, journeys into the mythic realm of Wonderland to discover the truth of its dark existence, and uncovers the reason behind her mother’s madness.

NRAMA: What was your inspiration behind the writing of this tale?

RG: Originally it was what Zenescope had already been doing with their Grimm Fairy Tale stories. I always loved the dark nature of fairy tales. That sense of a moral lesson wrapped up in a horror movie -- just waiting for the big bad wolf to jump out at you from around the next corner. With Return To Wonderland, I wanted to rip off the pretty bow and cute wrapping paper, revealing the real meat of the beast -- but I still wanted to pay homage and follow up on the events of the original.

Then it became something else. Most of the stories I write are very personal in nature. The Gift dealt with problems I have with the world. How comics portray their heroes, with different life relationships packaged into a regular person-gets-power story, or my own view of having a weight problem and the self-hate the world and the person who’s overweight sees through, which I dealt with in Se7en. While there is a personal theme in the story, writing Return To Wonderland is like nothing I have ever done before.

NRAMA: So, your goals with Wonderland were different than any of your former works?

RG: As most people who know me know, Watchmen is my favorite story of all time, and I started to look at that piece of work and wonder why no one tries to do those kind of epic stories (JMS’ Rising Stars, and Brad Metzler’s Identity Crisis came closest) in comics anymore. It’s like Watchmen came out and everyone bowed their heads, said grace, and never sought to try and capture that kind of storytelling again. So, when I started writing this, one of my goals became that I wanted to do a story that could be my own personal Watchmen. Not that I could ever come close to doing a story as good as Watchmen is, but having that goal in mind, that pieces throughout the entire story would fit together later. Symbols and subliminal context would be laced through the entire tale, so that even years later, readers would still be finding things they never saw before. That really appealed to me. Even if I failed in my task completely, I could at least look back years from now and say I did, indeed, try to tell a story that could be eternal in a market place where books like Blankets, Kingdom Come, Maus, (All of which I love dearly) have a shelf life…at least until the movie comes out. Meanwhile, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ Watchmen keeps on kicking, kicking the balls out of everything that’s come before and after it. I think sometimes it’s good to aim for the sky, and hope you graze the clouds.

NRAMA: Are we to assume that this is a balls-out horror story?

RG: Without a doubt. One of the first initial ideas that came about was how terrifying it would be to see a giant caterpillar in front of you. In the novel and animated version, Alice handles all this stuff quite well until the end…while in this story, her daughter deals with the events much more like a regular person would. She’s f***ing scared out of her brain.

NRAMA: How does your version of Wonderland compare to that of the animated version?

RG: Much darker, yet that sense of there being a growing dissention in the comfort zone of the viewer is very much the same. I recently viewed the flick again after many years, and while the movie is fun and cartoony, it does get to a point where your mind starts to bend and twist and very much wants Alice to get the f*** out of Wonderland just so everything can go back to normal. So, there are some shared themes, but all sense of anything cute and cuddly is gone. This is a different beast entirely. It’s a horror tale through and through, but unlike all other wonderland tales, this deals with what Wonderland really is in relation to a real-world story that is going on simultaneously through whole yarn.

NRAMA: How did you approach Zenescope about publishing Return To Wonderland?

RG: I’ve been a fan of Grimm Fairy Tales since it first came out, and Zenescope’s president, Joe Brusha, was a fan of The Gift. We had been talking off and on for a couple years while running around the con circuit. I was given the shot to write the first issue of their new Se7en series, and either myself or Joe had mentioned doing some of the bigger fairy tale stories as offshoots from the regular flagship title. Wonderland came to mind instantly, and I began pitching my ideas to them over the next few months until everything was laid out. And here we are…taking our first peek down the rabbit hole.

NRAMA: How does your Alice compare to the one from the original story?

RG: In my mind, it’s the same Alice. Just much older and dealing with the after effects of having visited Wonderland. She’s very much insane, but it’s that quiet, introverted crazy where you’re never really quite sure what she’s thinking. Something about her journey to Wonderland has left her this way, and it’s her daughter that will discover what about that world changed her mom from the girl she once was to the woman she has become.

NRAMA: What makes her daughter become so different than her mother?

RG: Her daughter is dealing with issues that are a direct result of living with a mentally ill mom. So, she acts like most teenagers do. Sex, drugs, etc. She really does love her family, but she’s not sure how to handle the problems in her life. But, as she’s forced to journey to Wonderland, she starts to understand that she and her mother have much more in common than she could possibly imagine.

NRAMA: I’ve seen the cover featuring Calie reflected in the looking glass. What made you go with the goth/punk aesthetic for her character?

RG: I like the feel that there’s an underlining theme of madness and insanity in all the wonderland mythos. That sense of being an outcast from reality. So, it only made sense that Carroll should dress the part. It’s also very symbolic for how teenagers view themselves within their family structure at that certain age in their life. They really don’t feel like they belong. So, the clothing she wears plays out who she is on many levels.

NRAMA: You’re a big fan of anagrams. Does that play into the story any?

RG: Fans of the novel and animated flick are sure to find all sorts of Easter eggs through the series. One of the easiest ones is that Alice’s daughter is named Carroll, out of respects to Lewis Carroll, the author of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, but is called Calie throughout the series. Calie is an anagram of Alice.

NRAMA: Any more?

RG: There’s so much of this kind of stuff in the story, which is why I liken it to Watchmen in trying to tell a truly massive story with layers upon layers of subtext. The anagrams, symbolic images, modern day moral lessons, subliminal images, and historic context. The shout-outs to the original story, the animted film, the characters these characters were based on, as well as the original creators Lewis Carroll and John Tenniel is what makes this story truly one of a kind.

NRAMA: The original tale and film had many symbolic references to drugs and drug usage. Is any of this featured in your take on Wonderland?

RG: Without a doubt. I really enjoyed how Lewis Carroll played with this subject matter without addressing it straight on. So, while RTW does this as well, it also has the chance to show a modern day real-world story dealing with the same topic. While I never have had the chance to enjoy a viewing of the animated film while walking down the acid brick road, I did enjoy getting in touch with the Super Mario brother in me during a recent viewing. I must say, it puts an interesting spin on it.

NRAMA: I know your work is influenced heavily by the works of Stephen King and H.P. Lovecraft. How did that affect your writing of this particular series?

RG: I was reading Stephen King’s Danse Macabre the other day, and learned how back in the early 1900’s, great writers like Poe, Lovecraft, and Howard used to all correspond with each other. How they didn’t have a problem with letting the other person use the occasional toy from their universe in one of their own tales. The Cthulhu mythos being the most recognizable of them all. Stephen King did the same in his Nightmares and Dreamscapes story, Crouch End. I started researching these great horror writers that are really the foundation of everything horror people do to this day, and I wanted to pay respect to the great tales they wrote. So, there’s a bit of that in this story as well. Fans of Lovecraft will definitely enjoy this series and the bigger picture that is behind Wonderland.

NRAMA: Is your writing style similar on this book to that used for your Image series, The Gift?

RG: I do my best to vary my style on each project. I like trying different formats that best suit what I’m working on. That way I never become stagnant and bored with what I’m doing. Writing Wonderland, I really stretched myself as a writer more so than ever before. I have greats like Neil Gaimen and David Mack to thank for that. They have a style of writing outside the box of what is the norm. So, when I was writing this, I was constantly living outside the box of what is the norm for a comic. I also wrote to the penciller, the colorists, and the letterer, which I have never done before. Each member of the creative team is essential to this book more so than any other project I have ever done. Usually, I just write the image in my head, and the team does the rest. So, while it appears to be a straightforward story, there is so much more hidden right beneath the surface.

NRAMA: Being a proponent of the big shock/twist-ending used in classic E.C. comics, were you eager to use any of that element in Wonderland?

RG: I don’t think I could stop myself from doing it now even if I wanted to. So much of those old horror comics influence me to this day, and have become such an integral part of my writing style, it would be like cutting my right hand off to not use those elements. I said it before, and I’ll say it again, NO ONE wrote comics like the EC boys’ back in the day.

NRAMA: Does knowing how Zenescope treats their creators allow you to push the envelope more?

RG: It’s funny you asked that, because when I first started this book, I actually asked them to rein me in if I got out of control. Because, I planned to go all out for this story in a way I had never done before. I wanted to do something that stood out from Fables, Hatter M, the original novels, and the movies that just screamed to be seen and heard. Sometimes you can lose yourself in the story when you give yourself over entirely to it. So, they have acted as my balance, but still remain supportive in me telling the story the way I want it to be told. They really are one of if not the best indie publisher in the biz when it comes to letting the creator tell their story.

NRAMA: What’s the issue breakdown like for this series?

RG: The prelude issue shows the final straw that breaks the camel’s back. It sets all the events of the series in motion. The rest of the series deals with the Wonderland story and the real world consequences of the Wonderland story. I would break it down further, but I’d hate to spoil the fun we have in store for readers.

NRAMA: Will you be doing much promotion for Return To Wonderland at upcoming conventions?

RG: I’m actually not going to be attending many conventions this year. Mega Con, Wizard World Philly, and Chicago… and that’s about it. I’ve been hitting the cons hard for about four years now (up to 20 cons a year), and I felt it was time for a break. My third child, Athena, was born three months ago, and I wanted to spend some much-needed time with her and my two boys. Most people don’t realize how much time this business takes you away from your family, whether it’s locking yourself in a room to write, or hitting the cons to promote and sell. Being with my family is long overdue.

NRAMA: I’ve heard some rumors about your antics at conventions. Any thoughts on that?

RG: Well, I learned one of my biggest character flaws is that I tend to party too hard. I didn’t like the person I was becoming when I’d go to these shows. I’d drink so much that I’d forget how I got home from the show, and after a while, it just got to be too much. A good buddy of mine, Tone Rodriguez, as well as a few others sat me down and told me they were concerned for my well-being because I drank so much. Of course, I blew them off. It wasn’t until later that night, when I was sitting at a bar, well-lit out of my brain, that I realized that even though I didn’t need any more drinks, I kept on drinking. That’s when it hit me. If I have one drink, I won’t stop. Period. There’s no halfway point for me. So, the best way I can stop living that lifestyle is to avoid it as much as I can. When I drink at home, it’s not a problem, and I rarely drink. But at cons, around my friends and that party atmosphere, it’s another story entirely. I’d much rather smoke one and smile than black-out and wake up covered in my own fluids, anyway.

NRAMA: Did any specific horror films have an influence on how you wanted this story to be told?

RG: King Kong, Pan’s Labyrinth, Legend, Dragonslayer, Clash of the Titans, The Matrix, and Lord of the Rings all take really cute child-like tales and turn them on their heads. While these aren’t all considered horror, if any one of us was faced with any of these creatures in real life…we would be afraid…very afraid.

NRAMA: If this series does especially well with the fans, are there any other classics you’d be interested in presenting your twisted take on?

RG: I tend to like to keep each project I do different from every other, so I’m not really sure I’m going to be tackling any other classics soon. I would like to do something like E.C. did back in the day with multiple short stories. I think a dark version of Jack and Jill and stuff like that might be cool to mess with. Zenescope does have plans to do a Neverland series with a concept that is absolutely brilliant that I might be tempted to write if they asked me to. But, in all honesty, I think it’s in great hands to begin with.

NRAMA: Lastly, what’s the main reason comic fans should pick this series up?

RG: Don’t you want to really see what’s down the rabbit hole?

[Morten Pedersen]

I love Alice in Wonderland, but i'm pretty tired that every writer wants to make a darker version of it, by adding zombie Mad Hatter or killer Mad Hatters, what is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

[ascloseasme]

Originally Posted by Morten Pedersen

what is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

See: Lost Girls

This is an interesting idea albiet coming from a source that seems to have been exhausted. The regular version of Alice in Wonderland always frightened the piss out of me as a child. I always thought that Alan Moore's darker perspective of Wonderland in his "The New Traveller's Almanac" (from LXG Vol.2) would be an interesting thing to explore further. This seems to be in the same vein.

Kudos to Gregory for seeing this avenue and doing something with it.

[jasonm]

Looks awesome, I can't wait to read it!

[ascloseasme]

Woops. Double post.

[Gear]

Originally Posted by Morten Pedersen

I love Alice in Wonderland, but i'm pretty tired that every writer wants to make a darker version of it, by adding zombie Mad Hatter or killer Mad Hatters, what is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

Done by the famous Wally Wood years ago.
http://www.undergroundcollectibles.c...id/0/id/100947

Stick around for the scene when Alice outgrows the house and presents her 'bits' to the hare, etc.

Jeff

[drollia]

Originally Posted by Morten Pedersen

is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

Its called Alice in Sexland, it is a Hentai. No I have not read it.

[jeircho]

Originally Posted by Morten Pedersen

I love Alice in Wonderland, but i'm pretty tired that every writer wants to make a darker version of it, by adding zombie Mad Hatter or killer Mad Hatters, what is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

The live action flick came out in the late 70s and it's hilarious - especially the scene where they're trying to put Humpty Dumpty together again.

[deathmasterj]

I might end up picking this up, although I think it will just make me pine for Calibre.Arrow Comics OZ/Dark Oz/Land Of Oz series, one of my favourite comics of all time. They also did a Wonderland spin off which sadly didn't last too long.

BRING BACK OZ!

[Ravengregory]

Thanks for the kind words guys. Really looking forward to seeing what people think when they see the alternative cover for the 99 cent prelude issue that shows the actual dark version of the Wonderland characters

[Kurt Busiek]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Raven Gregory: Carroll Liddle (Calie for short), daughter of Alice Liddle, journeys into the mythic realm of Wonderland to discover the truth of its dark existence, and uncovers the reason behind her mother’s madness.

Alice Liddell (not Liddle), wouldn't have had any reason to name anyone after Lewis Carroll, of course, because she knew him by his real name, Charles Lutwidge Dawson.

Her daughter wouldn't be named "Liddell" unless she was born out of wedlock, as well -- Liddell was her maiden name. Her married name was Hargreaves.

Her third son was actually named Caryl Liddell Hargreaves, though she said the name "Caryl" had no connection at all to "Lewis Carroll."

Nitpicking, I suppose.

kdb

[Gordon McAlpin]

Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek

Nitpicking, I suppose.

I don't think so... I was going to mention a couple of things you brought up, myself.

[Ravengregory]

[quote=Kurt Busiek]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

b]Raven Gregory[/b]: Carroll Liddle (Calie for short), daughter of Alice Liddle, journeys into the mythic realm of Wonderland to discover the truth of its dark existence, and uncovers the reason behind her mother’s madness.

Alice Liddell (not Liddle), wouldn't have had any reason to name anyone after Lewis Carroll, of course, because she knew him by his real name, Charles Lutwidge Dawson.

Her daughter wouldn't be named "Liddell" unless she was born out of wedlock, as well -- Liddell was her maiden name. Her married name was Hargreaves.

Her third son was actually named Caryl Liddell Hargreaves, though she said the name "Caryl" had no connection at all to "Lewis Carroll."

Nitpicking, I suppose.

kdb

I read about that on wikipedia too. The history of it all is amazing complex. As for the last name of the character being named Liddle, I read somewhere that even though it's spelled Liddell, it's pronounce like fiddle...hence the new spelling of the name.

And Kurt, you can Nitpick all you want. Astro City is still one of my favorite titles to this day. Especially the Junkman story. That one was a classic.

[nweathington]

I think I'll stick with Wonderland, which is illustrated by the fantastic Sonny Liew. If you like the Alice in Wonderland books, it's well worth checking out.

Of course, I always preferred Oz Squad to Oz/Dark Oz/Land of Oz, too.

[PreCrisisDC]

Looking forward to this--should be really good. I also wish Buymetoys would complete their Wonderland/Oz Chronicles series!!

[Ye Olde Iowa]

While the darker versions of Wonderland and Oz stories have really been played out for the most part, I think this one has some potential. I like the idea of making this a solid horror story with some psychological twists rather than just pointless gore-and-tits "reimagining." If I can find a copy of this I may pick it up, but my LCS doesn't have the best track record for non-mainstream books. Although, the Grimm Fairy Tales books seem to do well, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get a few copies of it. If so, I'll definitely pick it up.

If nothing else, the art looks pretty solid and it seems like Gregory has done his homework, giving the series a pretty solid base. Regardless, kudos to Gregory for trying something new and much more coherent with the idea.

[CBeranek]

Originally Posted by Ye Olde Iowa

While the darker versions of Wonderland and Oz stories have really been played out for the most part, I think this one has some potential. I like the idea of making this a solid horror story with some psychological twists rather than just pointless gore-and-tits "reimagining." If I can find a copy of this I may pick it up, but my LCS doesn't have the best track record for non-mainstream books. Although, the Grimm Fairy Tales books seem to do well, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get a few copies of it. If so, I'll definitely pick it up.

If nothing else, the art looks pretty solid and it seems like Gregory has done his homework, giving the series a pretty solid base. Regardless, kudos to Gregory for trying something new and much more coherent with the idea.

Thanks for the support!

We're hoping with the 99 cent #0 issue (out in May) many retailers that might not normally carry Zenescope's books will give it a shot. It also gives fans a chance to get a taste of the story without breaking the bank.

[Arvandor]

You still haven't said who's doing the interior art.

[Thomas_1979]

I can't say that I have honestly ever picked up a book written by Raven Gregory or published by Zenoscope, however, this book sounds very intriguing. I've always loved Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass so I imagine I will enjoy this as well. Gregory certainly has the right enthusiasm for the project. One question though, is this intended to be an ongoing or limited series?

Since I'll be at the Philly convention this year (last year it conflicted with my wedding and my fiance just couldn't understand that I wanted to push the wedding back a week), I would have offered to buy Raven Gregory a drink at the Bard's. Now that just seems inappropriate.

[AdamYJ]

Originally Posted by Morten Pedersen

I love Alice in Wonderland, but i'm pretty tired that every writer wants to make a darker version of it, by adding zombie Mad Hatter or killer Mad Hatters, what is the next "Alice in pornland", wait that is probally allready been made by now.

Gotta agree with you there. Same goes for Grimm's Fairy Tales. People are always so obsessed with how the "real" stories are supposedly so much darker than people think. However, I have to say, I've read the stories and they're not all that dark. Sure, they're a bit darker than the Disney versions (let's face it: fresh, driven snow is darker than a Disney fairy tale adaptation). However, there's still all sorts of magic and wonder and all that familiar fairy tale stuff. The basic idea for a fairy tale is generally that a good person succeeds because he is good and a bad person fails and is punished. The only difference in the older versions of the tales is that they were more honest and descriptive about how the bad people were punished.

[ReccaSquirrl]

Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek

Alice Liddell (not Liddle), wouldn't have had any reason to name anyone after Lewis Carroll, of course, because she knew him by his real name, Charles Lutwidge Dawson.

Her daughter wouldn't be named "Liddell" unless she was born out of wedlock, as well -- Liddell was her maiden name. Her married name was Hargreaves.

Her third son was actually named Caryl Liddell Hargreaves, though she said the name "Caryl" had no connection at all to "Lewis Carroll."

Nitpicking, I suppose.

kdb

You also forgot to mention the fact that the original Alice was brunette, not blonde.

*hates blonde Alices*
*is married to a direct descendant of Alice Liddell*

[Violent Gorilla]

Why do people always talk about how "dark the original material" is when dealing with fairy tales and children's books? Is it to make themselves feel better about liking something that's ostensibly for a child?

I mean, yeah...Grimm's fairy tales as well as The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland were all a little darker than their most well known cinematic counterparts, but the way some people talk about it you'd think they were Lovecraftian works of cerebral terror.

[Ravengregory]

Originally Posted by ReccaSquirrl

You also forgot to mention the fact that the original Alice was brunette, not blonde.

*hates blonde Alices*
*is married to a direct descendant of Alice Liddell*

Return to Wonderland #1 cover B
Just incase anyone was wondering, this is the cover Koben was talking about.

[Ravengregory]

Originally Posted by ascloseasme

See: Lost Girls

This is an interesting idea albiet coming from a source that seems to have been exhausted. The regular version of Alice in Wonderland always frightened the piss out of me as a child. I always thought that Alan Moore's darker perspective of Wonderland in his "The New Traveller's Almanac" (from LXG Vol.2) would be an interesting thing to explore further. This seems to be in the same vein.

Kudos to Gregory for seeing this avenue and doing something with it.

I've never had a chance to check out THe New Traveller's Almanac. Hopefully I'll get a chance to give it a read as well as LOST GIRLS.

[Ravengregory]

Originally Posted by drollia

Its called Alice in Sexland, it is a Hentai. No I have not read it.

I remember that. Eros put it out a few years back with their mangaerotica line. Story was okay for a Hentai comic.