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01-17-2007, 06:24 AM
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WRITE OR WRONG 20: WHAT'S MY (EVIL) MOTIVATION?
 by Dirk ManningOK… before I start the column proper this week I need to get to a few housekeeping items. 1) I was out of town for most of last week – and Interweb-less as a result, but I finally got to responding to almost everybody’s comments from last week’s column on “likeable” characters. If you care about what I – or anyone else – had to say, click here and delve into the talkback section. My witty responses begin on the second page of the thread. (Please note, I don’t read many DC comics, so I can’t really say one way or another on several of the DC picks some of you nominated, although apparently there’s a lot of love out there for both the cast of Birds of Prey as well as the new Atom. That says something for Ms. Gail Simone, huh?) 2) Don’t forget that NIGHTMARE WORLD: “The Long Hard Road Out of Hell #3 (of 4) is now available in PREVIEWS through Ape Comics. If you like this column and find it helpful – or are hungry for a new-school approach to the old-school EC Comics horror format, I’d be much obliged if you’d consider pre-ordering a copy and checking it out. Us smaller fish literally live or die based on our pre-orders, so believe me when I say that every pre-order helps. (The order codes are NOV063285, DEC 063295, JAN07 3376 for Issues #1,2 and 3, respectively…) 3) Finally, at long last, I have broken down and joined Comicspace. Click here to be my friend, spread the word about all of the good things I do and leave nice comments about me. Phew! It feels good to get all of that off my plate! Now, all of that being said, let’s talk about villains, shall we? I mean, that’s only fair considering how we spent so much time talking about “likeable” characters last week, right? Mind you, I realize full well that many people out there actually like the villains of stories more than the heroes, and that’s fine. After all, to be fair, it’s usually the villains that are usually the more dynamic characters because – as Peter David once expertly pointed out in his essay for The Dark Book by Wizard Magazine several years ago – it’s usually the villains who are the “movers and shakers” of the stories in comicbooks, while it’s the heroes who are then delegated to the role of being reactionary to the actions and motives of the villains. (This is why characters such as The Punisher and the team-members of The Authority have such unique potential when compared to their peers on the racks – because, unlike many other heroes, they’re proactive.) Indeed, as anyone serious about writing heroic literature can tell you, it’s usually the villains that define the heroes… but what makes a good villain? There are as many answers to this question as people you ask, of course, but for the sake of this column – and my goal to discuss creating good villains – let’s look at some of the better fictional examples of villains out there and discuss their unique qualities that make them, no pun intended, a cut above the rest. *** The Joker When it comes to comics – if not heroic fiction in general – is there really a more dynamic villain out there than The Joker? Despite the fact that we’re not sure of his true origin (although most people tend to lean towards the Alan Moore/Brian Bolland version set-forth in The Killing Joke) or even his motivations – if any – The Joker still seems to reign supreme as THEE comicbook villain against which all others are measured. Much like the rest of Batman’s rouge’s gallery, I personally feel that The Joker is used best when he’s played-off as the flip-side of Batman. While all of Batman’s other “classic” rouges each represent a twisted facet of one particular part of the Bruce Wayne/Batman persona (Penguin as the evil billionaire, Riddler as the evil genius, Mr. Freeze as the evil emotionless heartbroken man, Catwoman as the evil sex symbol, Scarecrow as the evil person who relies on fear, etc.), The Joker represents how Batman could have just as easily turned into a psychopath rather than a benevolent crusader. Furthermore, there’s the limitless potential in how The Joker can be used as a character due to the fact that he’s so freakin’ crazy. (Or is it , as Grant Morrison hypothesized in Arkham Asylum, that he’s actually “super-sane”?) Whatever the case, his outlandish look, limitless potential as a clown or a killer and his maniacal trademark laugh make him, hands down, one of the best villains in comicdom… if not heroic fiction in general. Lucifer The only reason I didn’t place Lucifer – as seen in John Milton’s epic Paradise Lost as THEE villain is because, quite frankly, I’m not sure if I can call him a villain with as much confidence as I can an anti-hero or perhaps even a Byronic hero. Much like The Punisher or (usually) Magneto, Milton’s Lucifer (which is, as far as I’m concerned, THEE take on the character) sees himself as a righteous entity fighting for a noble cause against overwhelming odds and a tyrannically unfair system. However, that being said, there are plenty of people who peg him as the source of all evil in the world given the fact that he seemingly causes such wanton destruction and havoc amongst creation. Considering all of this, is Milton’s Lucifer the villain society at large sees him as, or is he perhaps simply a scorned and misguided character seeking to do “good” against a flawed system? The fact that such a strong argument can be made in both directions is what makes Lucifer such an fascinating “villain”… as well as a worthy inclusion on any list of villains… whatever his true intention and motivations may be. God (The Old Testament Version) Possibly one of the most explosively temperamental characters in literature, despite the fact that he’s (according to many) the very real Creator-of-All-That-Is, there’s no denying that the Old Testament version of God from the Holy Bible is a pretty fearsome and vengeful entity. He denied the human race paradise for the mistake of one couple after they were blatantly manipulated by Lucifer (and just how did he get into the Garden of Eden without God – who is supposedly omniscient – knowing about it anyway? Hmmm…), destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because he didn’t like how they were living, handed Job over to Lucifer for torture… and as if that all wasn’t enough even went so far as to flood the freakin’ Earth. So, yeah, while he may be “The Alpha and the Omega” and all of that jazz, I’m also going to call a spade a spade and say that anyone with an expolsive temper that results in the death or damnation of millions of people is, regardless of his rank in the universe, at least a little bit villanous. Venom OK, OK, let’s get back to comicbook-based heroic fiction for a bit by talking about one of the better villains to pop-up in comics in the last few decades: Venom. Yeah – I said it – Venom. Seen by some as a symbol of the excess of the 1990’s comicbook uber-villain boom, I’ll stand toe-to-toe with any comicbook fan any day of the week and contend that the core concept of Venom is a great one in term of sheer comicbook villainy. For those of you late to the party, the entity known as Venom started as a symbiotic alien that allowed itself to be used by Spider-Man as a sort of enhanced costume. Upon finding out that the costume was not only alive – but also using him as well – Peter Parker flipped-out and was eventually able to tear himself from the creature. Dejected, the alien found its way to one Eddie Brock – a man who blamed the failures on his life on Spider-Man – and hence was the beginning of one of the most beautifully chilling relationships in comicbook villainy. Now armed with all of the knowledge about his arch-rival – as well as amplified versions of his powers – Brock (now calling himself Venom) found himself able to initiate a reign of terror on Parker/Spider-Man that included threatening his wife, showing up to “visit” his Aunt May and all sorts of other mind-games just to show Parker how hard Venom could strike if he chose to. That aside, what makes Venom especially interesting, though, is the fact that here was a character whose sole purpose was to destroy one particular hero. While other notable villains such as Lex Luthor, Magneto and even The Joker saw their respective foes as roadblocks obstructing their true goals, Venom’s sole mission has been – from day one – to destroy the hero. Interestingly enough, this motive soon almost painted writers into a corner, as the moment Venom was on the loose he would go directly at Spider-Man like a rabid and starving dog after a piece of fresh meat. Sure, it makes for exciting comicbook action, but when you have a character that exists only to destroy the hero and spends every waking moment trying to do so, what do you do with the character? Seemingly desperate to take the character off the table for a while, the writers went as far as to strand Venom on a desert island laboring under the impression that he has indeed defeated his foe, hence prompting him to retire there. Seriously, folks… I’m not making this stuff up. Then, when fans clamored for more he was brought back as an amnesia-ridden anti-hero who had decided to make peace with Spidey… you know, so that they could actually have him do other things than try to eat his brains or some such nonsense. Considering all of this, though, Venom still rates as an A-List example of a noteworthy prototype if for no other reason than the fact that his mere existence is a permanent threat to the hero in question: while Venom lives, Spider-Man and his loved-ones are in a very real – and very permanent – state of peril. Quite frankly, folks, if that ain’t villainous I don’t know what is. Big Brother The all-powerful and all-seeing government system as envisioned by George Orwell in his epic novel 1984 is now so engrained in our culture that it’s sometimes hard to tell where the almost-parody-worthy circumstances end and the real-life threats begin. In an age where blatant government corruption is seemingly more rampant (or at least clearly more noticed) than ever before, the chilling visage of Big Brother serves as a wonderful metaphor, warning and inspiration in regards how chilling and all-powerful an uber-villain could – and should – be. Voldemort For the love of gravy… any villain who’s so wicked that people can’t even utter his name is worthy of a mention, no? Also, forget the Voldemort you’ve seen in the movies and delve into the books to get a true taste of this complex, vile, sad, wretched, merciless and ultimately horrifying wizard who stalks the pages of the Harry Potter series. Moriarty Despite the fact that he is seen (and barely, at that) in only two of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s sixty Sherlock Holmes-based stories, the evil-genius/arch-nemesis /super-villain stature of Professor James Moriarty clearly overshadows his limited screen-time as well as sets the standard for how well “less is more” can work for a top-caliber villain. Indeed, the fact that we only see Moriarty twice – and that he succeeds in killing Holmes (although Moriarty himself also dies in the struggle, only for Holmes to later return) – shows just how fearsome and powerful of a foil the “Napoleon of Crime” is. Furthermore, the fear factor is raised even higher considering the fact that Holmes – our seemingly fearless hero – feels he must flee the country in order to escape him once Moriarty decides that he is tired of Holmes’ meddling. Lono If there’s a sicker and scarier bastard than Lono from 100 Bullets out there I don’t want to know about him. *** Considering all of this, it’s hard to argue that Moriarty is indeed THEE model for the modern day comicbook super-villain… So… looking back at all of these examples, what have we learned? As I touched upon last week – especially in the talkback section – the key to any good villain (and, to be fair, any good character) is motivation. If you want to create a good villain, create a good motivating force for him/her/it. That’s one of the key things that lifts all of the villains mentioned above – as well as runners-up like Magneto or Dr. Doom or “The Smiler” from Transmetropolitain or The Saint of Killers from Preacher or Tony Soprano from The Sopranos or Kid Miracleman from Alan Moore’s run on Miracleman – above and beyond of the rest of the pack. Ask yourself – what motivates your villain to deviate so far from the social norms… and then ask yourself if it’s an interesting enough of a motivation to run with. Of course there are other factors that play into great villainy, too. A cool “look” can go a long way (see: Darth Vader) as can a sheer sense of immorality that separates him/her/it from the social norms (see: Galactus and Cthulhu)… but at the end of the day, as a writer, it’s your job to make us afraid of the villains… or at least afraid of what they are capable of doing to the hero or the storyline as a whole. I know I say this a lot, folks, but you need to remember that, at the end of the day, no one is going to care about your original characters as much as you will. Considering this, you need to push yourself extra hard in order to create truly noteworthy – or at least memorable – villains as foils to your characters… And here’s the other thing, folks: Villains don’t have to be outlandish. I mean, seriously, you won’t find many people who like Garth Ennis more than I do… but don’t fall into the Garth Ennis mode of wacky/grotesque villainy. Please. If not for me, for the sake of the children. Also, more importantly, don’t bother making your villains evil just for the sake of them being evil. Greedy? Sure. Simply mean-spirited? Yeah… Apathetic towards their fellow man? Even this can work… But DO NOT assume that you – or anyone else I can think of – can make a villain evil just for the sake of being evil and then expect us to relate about him. pity him, fear him, sympathize with him or even give a rat’s booty about him, OK? Unless you’re talking about Bobba Fett of course… because he’s just, you know, totally awesome. Next week: These past two weeks have been fun, but it’s back to some more technical stuff for us! Huzzah! Look for the column on Tuesday! Dirk Manning is the writer/creator of NIGHTMARE WORLD and a longtime contributing writer to Newsarama. Again, if you find this column worthwhile please feel free to spread the word about it… and pick-up a copy of NIGHTMARE WORLD #1 from Ape Comics when it hits the shelves at the end of the month, cool? Cool. Oh, and eat more fiber – it’s good for you. Want to read Write or Wrong from the beginning? Here ya’ go! WoW #1: Introduce Yourself WoW #2: Thematically Speaking WoW #3: How Badly Do You Want It? WoW #4: Meeting Bendis and Finding Artists WoW #5: Making First Contact WoW #6: Things Fall Apart WoW #7: Creation vs Dictation WoW #8: Kill the Buddha WoW #9: They’re Not Robots WoW #10: Dollars and Sense WoW #11: World Wide You WoW #12: Always Use Protection WoW #13: Contract Killers WoW #14: Take a Look in the Mirror WoW #15: Words Worth 1,000 Pictures WoW #16: Mid-Ohio Musings WoW #17: Seeking What the Masters Sought WoW #18: Means and Ends WoW #19: Likeable Characters |
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01-17-2007, 08:43 AM
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#2 |
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Excellent column again, thanks Dirk.
I agree with your list of villains, but I would like to add Doctor Doom. Firstly he is a ruthless leader of his own country, hell bent on world domination. He is also a master of science and the dark arts of magic. Also we never get to see his face or body as he is encased in armour, which I think adds to the mystery of him and also makes him appear more ominous. Last edited by The Guvnor : 01-17-2007 at 08:50 AM. |
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01-17-2007, 08:52 AM
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#3 |
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I liked God of the old testament as a villian, (not a satan worshiper or anything like that) I just think it's really funny that the one being everyone is suppose to hail and laud has such a temper!!
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01-17-2007, 08:55 AM
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#4 |
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i think it's interesting that you write these things in almost a sequential style.
i mean... all of the line breaks are kind of like panels? do you think thats because your mind works sequentially because youre so used to comic work? |
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01-17-2007, 09:35 AM
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#5 |
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Great article, Mr Manning.
Just curious, in case I'm missing something, what's a THEE? Or is it a misspelling of the? |
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01-17-2007, 09:47 AM
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#6 | |
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True. It was mentioned in something I was reading just the other week that the best villains are the "heroes of their own stories." In other words, really convincing villains seldom see themselves as villains. Magneto and Professor X want the same thing -- an end to mutant persecution -- but have vastly different ways of achieving it. Lucifer (at least in his Paradise Lost and Vertigo comics incarnations) believes that he's actually delivering creation from the shackles of an unjust God (a God that also made your list, I see; compare the old testament Satan and the myth of Prometheus for a lesson on how storytelling can easily change a villain into a hero, and vice versa). The Patriot Act is either an outrageous violation of our civil liberties or a necessary tool in the so-called "War on Terror." And so on. It's all about Point of View. But I agree. If anything, developing the villain's motivation is more important than developing the hero's. Nicely done, sir. |
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01-17-2007, 01:46 PM
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#7 |
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Wow!
First off, mad props on including Lucifer of "Paradise Lost" fame. Not only did you impress me with the your knowledge of one of the most dramatic and integral tales in English/Christian history but you are also more than right that he is less the villian and more anti-hero. Also, secondary props to Venom as within one sentence of your article I was planning on responding with him as a good example (only to have you beat me to it). I love the original, McFarlane, incarnation of Venom specifically because he hows the extreme duality inherent in his complex character. The symbiote is after Spiderman for his love of Spiderman (which is why he never did attack MJ because as a symbiote he felt for her also) but at the same time it was attached to Eddie Brock who loathed Spiderman as the one to end his journalistic career. I especially loved the character when he refrained from the killing of innocents (unless he felt there was no other option in his single purpose of killing the masked crusader) as it showed the influence that Spiderman had upon the symbiote. Within one person you have a love/hate/justice/revenge personality playing out, and it was amazing. The most notable villian I think you missed was Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein's Monster." On the surface he was a modern retooling of Milton's Lucifer character but I think the retelling was a necessity as it spoke to a modernized conciousness when the western world seemed to be propelling itself into unimaginable futures without stopping to consider the consequences to its action. Frankenstein's Monster was the direct result of that, and even more so he was also a combination of old alchemy and modern science combined into a trully terrifying creation. One whose motives I never trully bought as evil, but, like Venom and Lucifer, as a result of their creator's rejection. And to finally sum this all up, a trully well written Villain is one for whom we can understand their motives. The "I'm bad because I like it" has a place but it lacks any true power as does the "I do bad for a just purpose" or even "There is nothing bad in my actions you just don't understand them." |
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01-17-2007, 02:01 PM
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#8 | |
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While I agree that Dr. Doom is awesome. I don't think that those are the reasons that Dr. Doom is a good villain. I think that his motivations are what make him a great villain. The fact that he is obsessed with being the best. He can't stand the fact that he is the second smartest man on the planet. And second to a man he positively loathes. A man who scarred him and robbed him of his appearance. When he can't find solace in science he turns to black magic. And even that can't do away with his nemesis. Its great because we all can relate to what he is feeling on one level or another. We all know what it is like to resent someone who is better than you at something for that reason alone. And you'll notice that based on those reasons above if read from the proper perspective Reed Richards could be considered a villain. And that is what makes a great villain. Motivation. I think that Brian Azzarello's portrayal of Lex Luthor should be a handbook of how the character should be handled. I actually found myself resenting Superman. Now, thats a villain! |
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01-17-2007, 02:59 PM
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Frankenstein's monster
" The most notable villian I think you missed was Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein's Monster." On the surface he was a modern retooling of Milton's Lucifer character but I think the retelling was a necessity as it spoke to a modernized conciousness when the western world seemed to be propelling itself into unimaginable futures without stopping to consider the consequences to its action. Frankenstein's Monster was the direct result of that, and even more so he was also a combination of old alchemy and modern science combined into a trully terrifying creation. One whose motives I never trully bought as evil, but, like Venom and Lucifer, as a result of their creator's rejection."
I have to disagree about Frankenstein's monster being a notable villain for this reason: if heroes are defined by their villains, shouldn't villains also be defined by their heroes? In Shelley's novel, Frankenstein (the scientist) seemed incapable of doing anything, except lamenting the murders committed by the monster. All in all, it's a pretty lame read, and I don't think the character would have been passed on to us today, had it not been for the monster fad at universal studios in the thirties. I'd also disagree about the Joker being dynamic. Isn't a "dynamic character" usually one who changes? I've never seen much change in the Joker, except, say, from "really evil" to "really, really evil." I'd include Ozymandias in Watchmen. If you want to get out into other genres, I'd say Skynet in the Terminator films fits most of Dirk's characteristics. I agree to some extent about the OT portrait of God, but, I'd say God comes off looking pretty good compared to the portraits of deities in other cultures. |
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01-17-2007, 03:08 PM
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#10 | |
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All very good points there. Nice to see some love for the Doom-meister. |
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01-17-2007, 03:20 PM
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Dirk, I'm gonna hold court on these two. I'm not sure I'd give these two examples much credit since the real villain here is society itself - not the actual person (or persona). Societal training of what's right, or wrong doesn't make the object in question evil and vile, but rather the power base.... the people that lift it up. Voldermort is not really all that horrible, even in the books his reign of terror pretty much holds to his old school classmates and their families. While he may dream of dominating normal people he's (so far) been shown rather weak and in hiding. The best horrors have been done in his name, not of him. In short, Voldermort is bad because the magical world in that story is told he is. This is just social training. Especially to those who NEVER dealt with him - or only read of him in history books. That's pretty much like the threat of communism. Not many people knew what it really was - just that it was bad and a "threat to your freedom". Social conditioning at it's best. Likewise, this applies to Big Brother. I can't see this "entity" as the enemy when it is supported and created by the people themselves. In this case, which I love, the society becomes the true villain. Like an old Twilightzone episode where you discover the hysteria is really a product of perception. We are our own worst enemy. So while I agree in part with Voldermort and Big Brother, I fear the greater evil is being missed. They are nothing without a support base and unable to to act alone. Much like Cap and Nick Fury fighting Hydra, or The Hand.... it's the concept, not the individual. You can cut off one head and two more will grow back. Kill the leader and another will step forward. It's not the person it's the idea - and THAT type of social evil is the worst. This is where Neo-Nazis, KKK racism, fanatic groups come into play. Killing Osama Bin Laden doesn't not solve the problem of an ideal. However, a singular villain, such as The Joker - if killed does put an end to his work, even if he has followers, such as Harlequin. So I'd break the "villains" into different categories - the "concept" types and the "singular". Those supported by society (Big Brother), those supported by internal ideals (Hydra, The Hand, COBRA), and the singular solo type (Joker, Lono, Bullseye, et.) As a writer, that's something I'd hammer out in the beginning, because it directs the story, characters, societal and world rules. Do I want the hero to fight for themselves, or for an ideal? Batman vs. Joker is the battle of two personas. They could be on the moon, the backdrop doesn't matter. But X-Men vs. Sentinels is a battle of ideals - that you can be different and co-exist in society. :: stops :: Yikes... I'm rambling now, again talking too much. Haha! Anyway, another good article Dirk, and as you know a topic close to my heart. Keep 'em coming. So what's next? Romance? How to write effective personal "drama / romance"? |
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01-17-2007, 03:28 PM
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#12 |
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Bah... for some reason the edit function is ill tempered. I meant to say, "Killing Osama Bin Laden doesn't solve the problem of an ideal"
Omit, the double negative "not" |
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01-17-2007, 05:13 PM
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#13 | |
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It was the monster fad of the thirties that turned him into a lumbering oaf and not the sly genius that he was in fact intended to be. I was enthralled by the story as analogy to the world. When you say Frankenstein was incapable of action I strongly have to disagree, his action was the very creation of new life. In very short order Frankenstein was the God character of the story who, unable to fathom the prowess of the beast which he birthed, became powerless to stop its destruction of all he held dear. He was the man who created the atom bomb, or the viral disease. He created for the sake of creation paying no heed to the consequences of his own actions. The monster is science gone mad. |
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01-17-2007, 09:56 PM
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#14 |
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I think villains need to be an equal or more powerful than the hero going after them. That way it makes it more powerful when the hero finally takes him down. Consider the rogues gallery of Spidey, Batman, and the Flash. Almost all of the villains are an equal or more powerful than the hero.
I never liked the whole the villain being the complete opposite of the hero. I know what I'm about to say is heresy, but I consider the Lex Luthor/Superman rivalry to be completely overrated. Brains vs. Brawn is fine once in awhile, but when Lex Luthor manages to outsmart Superman all these years, it makes Superman look like a complete moron. I've always thought Lex would make a better Batman/Bruce Wayne villain than a Superman one, the same way Kingpin became a more compelling villain after he left the Spidey rogues gallery. In fact, you can say that about almost all of Superman's villains. They're either smart, but in the end not really that dangerous to Supes (Lex, Brainiac) or powerful, but idiots in the end (Bizarro, Parasite). Also don't completely count out just plain crazy/evil. You list Joker as #1 villain, and we still don't know all that him outside his possible origin (and even then, does that make him more sympathetic? Not to me). To me, there seems to be a trend lately to make villains more sympathetic, and that just makes me not want to root for the hero to go after them. Darth Vader was way more compelling before we found out he was nothing more than a jealous husband. |
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01-17-2007, 10:15 PM
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#15 |
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I like what JLAJRC is saying. Personally, I'm not fully down with the sympathetic, misundestood, blackmailed villain. If you're gonna kill pregnant women, nuns, the blind and children then get on with it. Don't pussyfoot around. The world is chock full of demented criminals on several levels.
Of course, I like sympathetic villains.... when the story calls for it. But there's a reason The Joker is #1 on this and several lists. He's just off the rails and that's an area the reader is interested in. |
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01-18-2007, 01:04 AM
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#16 | |
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You know... for some reason I just couldn't bring myself to include Dr. Doom on the list for some reason. It's weird in retrospect almost to the point of embarrassment -- especially since one of my favorite stories of all time is DR. STRANGE/DR. DOOM: TRAGEDY AND TRIUMPH... as well as for all of the reasons you list. Perhaps he should have been included -- but I'm not going to give him the full nod *quite* yet... regardless of how much I also like him as a character.  |
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01-18-2007, 01:05 AM
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#17 | |
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AMEN!  Obviously this selection was a tad tongue in cheek... but I still stand by it regardless. |
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01-18-2007, 01:07 AM
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#18 | |
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Oh yes... everything Dirk Manning does is intentional... Except the occassional typos, of course. Matt Brady plants them there to make sure people are paying attention. |
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01-18-2007, 01:09 AM
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#19 | |
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No, no... "thee" is not a typo. It pronounced phonetically and is a fun way of ephasizing "the" at times. |
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01-18-2007, 01:10 AM
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#20 | |
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01-18-2007, 01:13 AM
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#21 | |
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Many thanks, my man! You're exactly right about POV, of course, as you are with many (if not most) of the greatest villains not seeing themselves as such at all... |
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01-18-2007, 01:16 AM
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#22 | |
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Great throughts, man! I'm glad someone else out there can back me up on the love for Venom as a great villain... even if he eventually suffered from extreme over-exposure. |
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01-18-2007, 01:18 AM
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#23 | |
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Between you and the Guvnor I think I'm being won over on how Doom should have made the list... |
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01-18-2007, 01:23 AM
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#24 | |||||
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Hmmm... interesting food for thought. I do agree that the "monster" was hardly a villain, per say, but rather a sad and confused person who did some stupid things... Quote:
Really? I mean, we all know that The Joker is certifiably crazy... but can a truly insane person be evil if their motivations and interntions are that screwed-up? FOod for thought, perhaps... Quote:
Now that I think about it, me too... or at least mention him as a "Lucifer"-like anti-hero. Quote:
Hmmm... another good choice! Thank you! Quote:
Well, that's true, too, come to think of it. Good call! |
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01-18-2007, 01:42 AM
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#25 | ||
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Quote:
I'll thumb-wrestle over Big Brother anytime, in part for the exact same reasons you mention. As a friend of mine mentioned to me today in reference to this inclusion, Big Brother is not so much a "villain" as a "symbol"... but my response was that, regardless of "his" true form, the fact remains that "he" repesents a truly villainous regime (and, arguably,social attitude/movement). As for He-WHo-Must-Not-Be-Named, I almost didn't include him simply because the saga isn't over yet, but regardless, I must respectfully disagree with you concerning his villainy. People say he's a bad dude beause, as Part Six shows (especially), he *IS* a bad dude! Quote:
Oddly enough, I was indeed talking to another friend of mine about romance comics today...  (Brilliant minds, eh?) |
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