MARC GUGGENHEIM ON HYPERION VERSUS NIGHTHAWK

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

Hyperion and Nighthawk couldn't be much more different if they tried.

In the Supreme Power series that re-imagined Marvel's Squadron Supreme characters, Hyperion was raised in captivity by a government that now uses him to do its bidding. He is often treated by the public like a celebrity and has never experienced the horrors of the world first-hand. Nighthawk, on the other hand, is a dark, street-level crusader against racism who was orphaned when, as a child, he watched his parents murdered because of their skin color.

Although the two have worked together to stop evil and they both wear a costume, their similarities end there. It's been established within the Squadron Supreme universe that they don't get along and have an obvious disdain for each other.

In the four-issue miniseries Squadron Supreme: Hyperion vs. Nighthawk, which begins with this week's #1, writer Marc Guggenheim and artist Paul Gulacy explore what happens when the two characters' disdain for each other escalates into a showdown. Newsarama talked to Guggenheim about what real-world issue prompts the confrontation, what makes these two characters so unique -- and how in the world Nighthawk is winning on the cover to that first issue.

Newsarama: How did you get this writing assignment?

Marc Guggenheim: Warren Simons at Marvel asked me if I had any interest in writing a four-part Hyperion/Nighthawk story. Because I'm a big fan of the characters, especially their current incarnations, and came up with a story I was excited about, I said yes.

NRAMA: So you're a fan of the new Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme take on these characters?

MG: Very big fan. I think Joe Strazynski has really done an incredible job here: He's totally reimagined these characters for the 21st century, but has held on to all of the elements of the franchise that make it interesting.

NRAMA: The obvious comparison for Hyperion by many comics fans is Superman.

MG: Who's Superman? Hey, that would make a pretty good name for a character...

NRAMA: Wow, it would, wouldn't it? Seriously though -- what makes Hyperion so drastically different from Superman or any other flying alien character? What is it about him that makes him unique?

MG: Well, Superman is something of a boy scout. In fact, if Otis is to be believed, he's an "overgrown" boy scout. Hyperion is anything but. He was raised by the United States Government, not a kindly couple from Kansas. He has a completely different mindset. Particularly since he discovered that his whole upbringing was an elaborate ruse perpetuated on him by the aforementioned government. So while Hyperion may possess powers that are... familiar to readers of Superman, as a character -- and it's all about character -- he's completely different.

NRAMA: Do you find that type of more conflicted character more interesting?

MG: I find Hyperion very interesting. Do I find him more interesting than Superman? Not necessarily. I just find him very different. They're both extremely interesting characters, but for completely different reasons.

NRAMA: Along the same lines, there is often a comparison between Nighthawk and Batman.

MG: What, do you work for D.C., or something?

NRAMA: [laughs] Oh, come on, Marc. You must have heard the comparison before -- fans tend to dismiss Squadron Supreme as a copy of the Justice League. Since the Supreme Power series re-imagined the team, should those comparisons even apply anymore? And getting back to the question -- in particular, what makes Nighthawk unique among "rich dark knight" crime-fighters?

MG: Damn if that question doesn't beg the question, "How many 'rich dark knight crime fighters' are there?" Let me get down to brass tacks and seriously address both your Hyperion and Nighthawk questions at once because, all kidding aside, both questions really have the same answer. One of the things I find cool about Squadron Supreme, particularly as reimagined by Joe, is that it really puts to rest the question of whether character is truly paramount in storytelling. In Hyperion and Nighthawk you have characters who, as you point out, bear some resemblance to Superman and Batman. However, although the characters may share similar origin stories and modus operandi, Hyperion is completely different from Superman, and Nighthawk is completely different from Batman. Hyperion and Nighthawk are very, very damaged individuals.

NRAMA: So it's a psychological difference more than anything else.

MG: They're far more damaged psychologically than Superman or Batman could ever hope to be. And in the case of Nighthawk, that's really saying something because you have to wake up pretty early in the morning to be more psychologically damaged than Batman.

NRAMA: In their previous encounters, these two characters have hardly been friends, but they haven't really been enemies either. Tell us about how your story sets up the conflict.

MG: Basically, Nighthawk decides -- for reasons that will become clear over the course of the series -- to get involved in the genocide that's currently going on in Darfur. And when I say "get involved," I don't mean help add to the genocide, I mean put a stop to it once and for all. The United States Government doesn't take too kindly to Nighthawk's activities, so they send Hyperion to Darfur to stop him. Super-heroic smackdowning ensues.

NRAMA: The genocide in Darfur isn't fictional. Why did you choose to set it in Africa in the middle of real-world turmoil?

MG: That's a good question. Before taking the project, I had to answer two questions for myself: First, how do I make this story different from your run-of-the-mill super-hero fights super-hero story? Second, how do I make this story germane to Hyperion and Nighthawk? The second question really helped to answer the first. In thinking of the answer to the second question, I thought about what makes Hyperion and Nighthawk tick. What motivates them? Well, racial issues are a huge part of Nighthawk's raison d'etre, and it occurred to me that he'd probably have a pretty strong, shall we say, opinion about what's going on in Darfur. It then occurred to me that if he were to try to do something about it, Hyperion's, shall we say, handlers in the United States government might not look to kindly on it. So there's conflict. Once you've got conflict, you're off to the races.

Now, I could have set the action in a fictional country, say, Shmafur. But, for my money, that would have pulled a lot of the teeth out of the story. The genocide we're depicting becomes that much more palatable if it's buried under a layer of fictionalization. I firmly believe that the story is far more compelling if it's set in Darfur as opposed to, say, Shmafur. And I really have to give Marvel a lot -- a lot -- of credit for letting me use the real locations. It was never even a question with them, and I was very pleasantly surprised -- and impressed -- to see that.

NRAMA: What can you tell us about how each of these two characters perceives the genocide there?

MG: Well, I don't want to tell you too much, because that's something I want you to read the story to find out, but I think it's fair to say that both characters' perceptions evolve over the course of the story. For Hyperion, he wasn't very aware of what's going on in Africa, right now, today. Maybe some readers fall into the same category and will undergo the same experience in terms of their perceptions as the story evolves. As for Nighthawk, he's obviously outraged by the genocide from the start. The evolution in terms of perception for him is how and whether the situation can be fixed.

NRAMA: Your "smackdown" comment, as well as the word "versus" in the title, suggests these two are going to be fighting a lot. But come on, now. Does Nighthawk even have a chance?

MG: Well, take a look at the cover for issue #1 and Page 21 of issue #1 and you tell me.

NRAMA: OK, but if Nighthawk's got a chance here, then what is Hyperion's vulnerability?

MG: Gee, I dunno. Maybe Hyperion's not vulnerable, but Nighthawk has just gotten really, really strong. Guess you'll have to read the series to find out.

NRAMA: ...

MG: Yes, I suck. I know this.

NRAMA: I wasn't going to say it.

MG: Seriously though, have you ever seen "Bambi Meets Godzilla"?

NRAMA: There's a Bambi Meets Godzilla?

MG: You can see it by clicking here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...09875781837645.

NRAMA: Ouch!

MG: That's what I was afraid of in doing a Hyperion versus Nighthawk story. I mean, sure, I can write that for two pages, maybe five, but four issues? There's gotta be a way to make that a fair fight. That was one of the biggest challenges in figuring out the story.

NRAMA: OK, besides these two fighting -- and we're obviously going to have to read the story to find out the details of how Nighthawk competes -- is there a villain at work in the series?

MG: There is a villain. In fact, there are several villains. However, there are no, as we've come to think of them, super-villains. No, the forces and people and governments responsible for the Darfur Genocide are our antagonist here. Again, I didn't want to "fictionalize" the story too much. I think it does a disservice to all of the victims of the Darfur Genocide to portray their plight as being the machinations of, say, a Dr. Doom. That's not to say that I'm not well aware I'm writing a COMIC BOOK here. There's plenty of widescreen action. This isn't a four-issue civics lesson. If all you want is big time super-hero action and smackdowns, you'll get that in every issue, I promise.

NRAMA: How has it been working with Paul Gulacy on the series?

MG: Awesome. The guy's a genius and, dare I say it, a legend. He's extremely collaborative and very cool about discussing changes to the script with me. And he will change the action on occasion. Usually, artists want to reduce the number of panels on the page -- Paul adds. He also adds an enormous amount of "cinema verite" to the project. It just looks gorgeous. The people, the settings -- everything down to the weapons that Nighthawk uses, everything is rendered so carefully, it's really a beautiful looking book, even with my writing screwing it up. However, perhaps most importantly, Paul has really thrown himself into the non-traditional storytelling structure I'm using on this project and he's made it work far better than I ever had a right to expect.

NRAMA: For people who may be new to this universe, is it important to have read Supreme Power or Squadron Supreme to understand what is happening in this miniseries?

MG: I don't think so. We're including recap pages in each issue -- even in the first issue, to give neophytes an introduction to the characters. The truth is, because of the "ripped from the headlines" nature of the project, we're hoping for some mainstream attention, so we're not expecting people to come to it with a vast knowledge of the Squadron Supreme universe.

NRAMA: So, here's your chance to talk to those new readers. What would you say to convince them to give this a chance?

MG: A few things: First, don't let the real-world subject matter turn you off. Like I said, this project was initially conceived as a big-time super-hero smackdown story. If all you want to see is Hyperion and Nighthawk beating the crap out of each other, you'll get that in every issue.

Second, you'll also get what I think is a pretty cool mystery in the form of, "just how the hell is Nighthawk going to be able to give as good as he gets?"

Third, we're doing something pretty fun and, I believe, relatively unprecedented: Issues 1 and 3 will be told from Hyperion's perspective. Issues 2 and 4 will belong to Nighthawk. There will be some overlap between the odd and even numbered issues, but even in that overlap, you'll get a different perspective on the action. I'm having a lot of fun with structure with this project and I think people will find the series -- particularly when all 4 issues are put together -- really inventive and interesting.

Finally, I don't want people to think I'm not putting my money where my mouth is. I'm donating my writing fee for the project to www.savedarfur.org.

NRAMA: You're donating your fee? So is the genocide in Darfur an issue that you've been following for awhile, or did you come to care about it more as you wrote this story?

MG: A little bit of both. I was certainly aware of it and was passively following the events in the news, but it wasn't until I started working on this project that I dove head-first into thoroughly researching the area and the issues involved. It's one thing to know about what's happening over there. It's quite another to learn about the specifics of the atrocities and the reasons, macro and micro, for them. Nobody could learn these things and not be affected.

[The Thatguy]

Wonder where China will come out in this, if it's based on real world politics.

[jaredgood1]

Enjoyable first issue and I'm looking forward to the next 3.

[HartyPotter]

Originally Posted by The Thatguy

Wonder where China will come out in this, if it's based on real world politics.

If it's based on real world politics, China will probably "come out in this" how they are in the real world...

As for the story, I doubt China will be a big part of it at all, unless for some reason the story goes off on a tangent about where Sudan exports its oil to.

Anyway, I'm REALLY looking forward to getting this.

[freejenkins]

I've been out on Supreme Power for a while now but this looks like it might be worth a look.

Plus, gotta respect Guggenheim giving up his fee, that's pretty cool.

[HankPym]

It's a good thing the story isn't four pages long and written by Paul Jenkins - we'd have an online riot on our hands.

I've never read Supreme Power, but this sounds like an interesting story that benefits a good cause.

I wonder if Marvel would be willing to go the extra mile and donate the proceeds?

[drs9p]

Guggenheim has really become a rising star lately. This post proves he's also a stand up guy. I like, but don't love, his books, but this interview convinced me to follow this one at least. Well done, Marc.

[Eric Palicki]

I saw a rerun episode of LAW & ORDER last week in which the victim's name was 'John Byrne.'

That episode's writer? Marc Guggenheim.

[Squashua]

How have you never seen "Bambi meets Godzilla"? That thing is a classic!

[kaiserdean]

Will Siegel & Shuster and Bob Kane get credit for creating these characters on the title page?

For that matter, why does Marvel knock-off so many DC heroes? Except for Wildstorm titles, DC doesn't seem to it as often and they never give the knock-offs their own titles...

"The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot." Salvador Dali

[Maurice M]

SP needs to be put out to pasture. The writing for the main series and it's previous minis has been pure crap now.

[Zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by kaiserdean

Will Siegel & Shuster and Bob Kane get credit for creating these characters on the title page?

For that matter, why does Marvel knock-off so many DC heroes? Except for Wildstorm titles, DC doesn't seem to it as often and they never give the knock-offs their own titles...

I dont know if Marvel has any special DC knockoffs, but in this case both companies did it, DC made a team based on the Avengers, Marvel one based on JLA. Only difference is that Squdron Supreme turned into one of the most important comics in the superhero industry, while the Avengers knockoffs are nowhere to be seen

[BanMan]

Originally Posted by kaiserdean

Will Siegel & Shuster and Bob Kane get credit for creating these characters on the title page?

Uh, because they didn't create the characters? So what if they're based on an archtype.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

I think people will find the series -- particularly when all 4 issues are put together -- really inventive and interesting.

Inventive and interesting. Remember when that described Supreme Power? Based on the quality of this first issue, which is indeed inventive and interesting, I'd be all for JMS being kicked off his own creation so that Guggenheim can take over Squadron Supreme and get it back on track to experimental and intelligent storytelling.

[kaiserdean]

Originally Posted by BanMan

Uh, because they didn't create the characters? So what if they're based on an archtype.

How can anyone read the Squadron Supreme titles and not see the DC characters? This isn't just archetypes, its wholesale plagiarism.

Roy Thomas (who originally wrote the Squadron Sinister) even said they were supposed to be the JLA...

[johnchrist]

That's pretty cool that he's donating his writing fee to the to the Darfur charity.
I also new very little about the genocide down ther until one of my favorite artists on Deviant Art (http://kweli.deviantart.com) sent a shout out for peopel to help with an anthology whsoe profits will go to aid the charities there. The anthology isn't out yet but you can check out my two page contribution at http://johnchrist.deviantart.com the second page is up on my spotlighted artwork and I believe I linked to the first page inside it's comment section.
Drawing those two pages were honestly some of the most personal and meaningful pages I've yet to complete in my short tenure as an artst.

[Xero]

You know I'm beginning to think that Jim Shooter was right. Comics should be all about being comics, and "issues" should be saved for graphic novels.

[BlakSun]

Originally Posted by kaiserdean

How can anyone read the Squadron Supreme titles and not see the DC characters? This isn't just archetypes, its wholesale plagiarism.

You must be new around here.

*ignore*

[SuperturboZ]

let's see Superman vs Batman round 842

I think I'll pass on this

I enjoyed SS but with all the titles that are out there now I don't really want to read a rehash of a fight but with different "skins"

[johnny.blaze]

Goog's has easily (and quickly) become one of my favorite writers out there. Read this issue and absolutely loved it.

Also gotta put in the plug that he wrote Blade this week as well which was pretty kick-ass as well.

I love how he's able to "get" the voice of these characters.

[ziza9]

Originally Posted by kaiserdean

How can anyone read the Squadron Supreme titles and not see the DC characters? This isn't just archetypes, its wholesale plagiarism.

Roy Thomas (who originally wrote the Squadron Sinister) even said they were supposed to be the JLA...

Did the creators of Batman have to pay royalties to the pulp fiction and Noir creators before them who came up with oddly clad detectives of the night that were prevalent in serialized fiction back in the '30s? Who cares what the original models were? If it's a good story, it's a good story.

[Cheech-Daddy]

I for one totally dig the Supreme Power universe and it's characters. To me, it shows how interesting the DC characters and their achetypes COULD be if they had been developed the right way. I'm really not a DC guy, so seeing these characters develop in ways that are much more realistic (Come on, how could the governement NOT seize an alien baby) has been great. I thought the Nighthawk mini was a more balanced version of the character than he's been shown as in SP, and I'll admit I haven't got around to checking out Squadron Supreme yet, but I'm really lookign forward to it.

For someone to dismiss these characters as "DC ripoffs" really, in my opinion, displays some level of ignorance and flat out geeky bitterness, and as someone else already said, DC did it, too, but no one remembers becuase the characters weren't memorable to most.

Just think of it as a sort of "Ultimate JLA" or something. It's good stuff, especially the whacked-out Zarda.

(See how I did that? I made a point of opinion without launching into a "DC SUCKS! They're boks are stuid. I'll never read a DC book!" tirade? Refreshing, no?)

[Don Mega]

I loved the first 2 tradepaperbacks but something happen in volume 3 to the book. It´s just not that exiting in my opinion.

But recognizing Guggenheim as one of Marvel´s Finest these days I just might get this!

[kaiserdean]

Originally Posted by ziza9

Did the creators of Batman have to pay royalties to the pulp fiction and Noir creators before them who came up with oddly clad detectives of the night that were prevalent in serialized fiction back in the '30s? Who cares what the original models were? If it's a good story, it's a good story.

A good story is a good story but for the author to deny that the title characters are anything but DC comics taken to an 11 is clownshoes.

I wouldn't have lost respect for the writer if he hadn't tried to deny who the characters were based on. It's like when Vanilla Ice tried to deny that "Ice, Ice, Baby" was different from "Under Pressure."

[Jeremy Williams]

Bear in mind I stopped reading Supreme Power a while ago but since when Hyperion became the US goverment's bitch? I thought he did not want anything to do with them when he learned how his World was a lie created by them?