CIVIL WAR ROOM 6: TALKING TO TOM BREVOORT

[MattBrady]

The penultimate issue of Marvel’s Civil War hit the East and Midwest this week (West Coast next week)…so it’s time to sit down and hash it out.

Hold up – for those on the West Coast who haven’t gotten the issue yet, this is a massive

spoiler warning

as we’re going to be talking to Editor Tom Brevoort about things that happened in the issue in detail.

Newsarama: First off, just 'cause it's kinda fun and we figure you have to tilt your head back and let your eyes unfocus to figure it, and that's a fun mental image - with issue #6, about how long has it been since Stamford in "Marvel Time?"

Tom Brevoort: I think it’s been a vague couple of weeks, maybe a little over a month. A lot has happened in a very short amount of time.

NRAMA: So - at the start, we see the Champions training in Arizona - with four getting screen time - Hercules, Hermes...and who are the other two? Can you give a full roster?

TB: Not a full roster necessarily, but in the issue we see Hercules, Hermes, Artemis and Hepaestus, and Poseidon is mentioned.

NRAMA: As Hill said, there are Mormon heroes in Utah, the Spaceknights in Chicago, Force Works going to Iowa - just to be clear, these are a part of the Initiative, correct? The 50 teams, one for every state?

TB: Yes, this is all part of the Initiative planning. And not that it’s necessarily mentioned in this issue, but the Thunderbolts are operating out of Colorado (once the snow clears, of course.)

NRAMA: Given that the Champions here are new, are the Spaceknights and Force Works new as well, with names appropriated from other teams, or are they the Pro-Reg members of those teams and new faces?

TB: Until we see them on camera that remains to be seen. And it’s not necessarily an either-or proposition. Some of these guys could be new, some could be existing Pro-Reg heroes, and some could be older guys given an upgrade.

NRAMA: Just to further clarify - we've seen previously that Reed and Tony were growing people like Clor to be part of the Initiative - are they included in the mix we're seeing here? After all, the cloning technology was fairly unstable...

TB: So far as we know, the Thor clone/cyborg is the only out-and-out fully-grown individual that the braintrust has produced. But they’re experimenting with a wide variety of techniques and approaches to the concept of manufacturing superhumans.

NRAMA: Jumping past the end of Civil War for a moment, are these heroes among those we'll be seeing in Dan Slot's The Initiative this spring?

TB: Some of them might be…

NRAMA: The pills "Pym" was taking - what were they doing for "him?"

TB: Actually, that’s the genuine Pym, not “Pym”—Hulkling is the SHIELD agent who salutes Maia Hill on that page—if you look closely at her glasses, you can see that Morry gave his reflection a slight greenish tinge. Maybe we were too subtle here.

And according to Mark: “Given his history of mental instability, I thought he'd be on prozac.”

NRAMA: Tony's response to Reed about the criminal activity they're seeing - is it due to criminals lying low for this to pass, or due to a larger than normal number of criminals being apprehended?

TB: A little of both, actually. As mentioned last issue and seen in Civil War: War Crimes, the Pro-Registration crackdown on the underworld has been fairly effective, at least in the short-term. And the underworld is reacting to these pressures—some of them by lying low, some of them by attempting to organize, and some of them by leaving the country completely. We’ll continue to see the after-effects of this crackdown in assorted titles during and after the close of Civil War.

NRAMA: Are any of the criminals being put into the Negative Zone prison?

TB: No—only unregistered superhuman combatants are being incarcerated in the Negative Zone at the moment. As Iron Man says in issue #5, that’s really for the safety of the imprisoned heroes, whose lives would more likely be in jeopardy if they were mixed in with a more criminal-intensive gen-pop.

NRAMA: The President is giving the Pro-Reg side twelve immunities, as Reed said, and two of them will be used by Sue and Johnny. How is that consistent with what Reed told Peter about his Uncle in Amazing Spider-Man? Sue and Johnny will get special treatment because, simply, of who they are, not that they've changed their minds or come around to the Pro-Reg side... Is Reed really okay with this, or is this something of a desperate bargain to save his family?

TB: I think Reed and Tony and the rest of their braintrust see convincing at least the majority of the dissenters about the rightness of what they’re doing as a component of the endgame they speak about. But certainly there’s an element of desperation about Reed’s approach at this point.

Also, Tony indicates broadly that he’s going to press the President for additional concessions when they have dinner.

NRAMA: If you had to guess, who would Iron Man give the other ten immunities to?

TB: Wow, good question. Assuming that Tony can’t secure more than twelve immunities in total, I would guess that the folks who’d be at the head of the list would include Captain America himself, Spider-Man (because he’d realize how much Peter stepped up for him, and how much he sacrificed for Tony’s agenda, even if he reversed himself in the end—plus he’d do it for Aunt May and Mary Jane), the Young Avengers (Patriot, Hulkling, Wiccan, Hawkeye, Vision, Speed—he’d assume that they were more susceptible to being swayed by Cap simply because he’s Cap, and being young, not necessarily possessing the life experience to make an informed decision), and perhaps the Falcon and Luke Cage, the other guys he knows the best.

NRAMA: Moving under the sea, where life is reportedly better…Sue and Namor - can you take us inside Namor's head, and give us some insight on where he's at? As far as he's concerned, it seems as if he always knew it would come down to this on the surface...

TB: Namor was predicting something like this as far back as the Illuminati Special, so it’s really no surprise to him. But despite the fact that he’s still got some kind of legal status as an American citizen, he sees the political in-fighting within the U.S. over this issue to be of absolutely no concern to him and his. His only are of interest was in tracking down the person responsible for his cousin’s death, and he’s done that.

Also, with the mounting tensions between Atlantis and the surface world that we’ve seen over in Front Line, it might be dangerous for Namor or his people to weigh in physically on either side. At that point, the internal Civil War could boil over into a surface-world vs. Atlantis war.

NRAMA: Going by what he said, would Namor have responded differently if Cap had come to him with the plea for help?

TB: That’s anybody’s guess. He certainly has more respect and history with Cap than just about anybody else on the surface, but he’s probably got more sentiment for Sue. Whether Cap would have been enough to sway him into action is an interesting question.

NRAMA: Going into the production side of things for a moment, and we asked Joe this back at the very start, but throughout the miniseries, Steve's been using page-wide panels. Why? In your view, what does that do for the miniseries that a more traditional approach wouldn't have allowed for?

TB: Only Steve can tell you for certain why he’s making a particular artistic choice, but the one thing I think the page-wide panels used consistently do is to create a certain syncopation, a certain rhythm to the series. And so that can be useful in terms of controlling the pace of the story and the impact of a moment.

For example, if we got to a key scene, and Steve broke it down more along the lines of a standard grid, or with the crazy overlaps of the Image era, subliminally that sequence and that moment would stand out all the more, and would give a different impression than the rest of the pages surrounding it. Also, the “widescreen” approach does evoke a panoramic movie screen—it’s what readers most naturally associate with that shape, and this somehow gives each panel a particular kind of scope and “openness”—if that makes sense.

NRAMA: Likewise, some of the more iconic visuals and visual shorthand...Iron Man in front of the flag, Cap's team planning their assault in a manner very reminiscent of Star Wars' rebels looking over the Death Star plans in Episode IV - can you take a minute and give your view on what they add, subtext-wise?

TB: Again, many of these are artistic choices that Steve is making as he illustrates each issue (though I think Mark called for the shot of the flag). And you’re right on the money—they do permit us to create a sense of subtext, to imply a feeling or convey and motion without using words. On the other hand, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar—the Pym pill you asked about earlier being an example where there really isn’t another specific level of meaning, but some readers will either suspect there is or intuit their own meaning from the juxtaposition of those elements.

NRAMA: Fair enough. Back into the story - roll-call-wise - are Monica Rambeau and Machine Man part of Cap's team?

TB: Yes, Monica and Aaron from Nextwave. Despite their recent non-tie-in cover, apparently they are on board with Mark Millar’s goat-licking agenda.

NRAMA: In the planning, Cap says that the Pro-Reg is planning a huge assault along with SHILED - er, on who? And is that the "grand finale" that Reed and Iron Man keep talking about?

TB: Yes, that’s the endgame that Tony and Reed are referring to—“huge assault” is Cap’s interpretation of the intel. And ultimately, as we witness towards the end of the issue, the Pro-Reg guys know that the mass attack on the Negative Zone prison is coming, and they’re setting up to ambush the attackers. That’s the first stage of the plan Tony and Reed are mobilizing for.

NRAMA: There are a ton of other heroes there - why does Cap call out Spider-Man? How do the heroes there see him?

TB: The honest answer is that this is “insular storytelling.” While we’ve seen Spidey in action in other tie-in books since Civil War #5, the last time we saw him in the main book the Punisher had just lugged his unconscious body into Cap’s headquarters. So as an individual read, and as an eventual collection, the fact that Spidey is back on his feet and in shape to fight is something that needed to be covered.

NRAMA: The fight - Frank's had no trouble fighting Cap before - the classic Mike Zeck cover comes to mind - why is this fight different?

TB: Maybe I’m just tired, but I don’t remember a classic Mike Zeck cover with Cap and the Punisher fighting. But as we’ll see more of in Punisher War Journal #2, for the Punisher, joining up with Cap in this instance is like signing on with a superior officer to fight a war—and an officer for whom Frank Castle has the utmost respect. So even in the heat of the moment, you don’t strike a superior. There’s a commonality between these two guys—and understanding that perhaps, if they’d grown up in each others’ eras, they might each have wound up like the other. And so this whole confrontation stems from that. Cap is outraged because, when push came to shove, the Punisher couldn’t find the better man within himself, or find the acceptable compromise. Cap and the Punisher share many of the same core ideals, it’s simply the way they go about living their lives in reflection and observance of them that’s different.

NRAMA: Perhaps stretching a little to try and hit a pitch that may be out of the zone - Uatu and Strange - for some reason, the tone to me felt very much like Lucifer tempting Jesus in the desert... just a coincidence?

TB: That’s one interpretation, certainly.

NRAMA: So - er, you can sneak into Ryker's if you're invisible, or did Tony let Cap's force in?

TB: There’s a bit more to this scene that you’ll see elsewhere, in Black Panther #25 for one. So no, it’s not quite so easy. Also, Zemo gave Captain America a key to the joint back in the Thunderbolts tie-ins.

NRAMA: Got it. Going from what Hulkling said, then - the entire issue took place in the space of one day?

TB: Since we never see Hulkling knock out Pym and take his place—we only see Hank and the disguised Hulkling go off together on page 3—there’s at least the potential for more time to have passed during this issue than merely one day.

NRAMA: Okay - probably not much you can, or need to tease for issue #7 at this point, but how about just one - a ballpark shot for when the issue will hit?

At this stage, we’ve finalized the page count for the issue, and as predicted, it’s a bit larger than a normal issue, clocking in at 28 pages. So we’re computing the schedule based on this fact (and now that we’re past the holidays so we can see what kind of effect they had upon everybody’s productivity) and David Gabriel and his guys will have an update on the shipping situation for everybody on Tuesday the 9tth! Extra pages, no extra cost!

A lot of punching and hitting, appearances by even more startling characters, and not the ending you expect or want, but the ending you need.

Newsarama note - upon reflection (and people pointing it out to us) it turns out that we don't remember any classic Zeck cover of Cap and the Punisher fighting either. But boy - wouldn't that have been a cool piece of art. Anyway, we were thinking of Captain America #241, with a cover by Frank Miller no less, which has the Punisher pointing a machine gun at a sheild-less Cap's chest. Apologies for the brain seizure, and to Tom, who probably had one too, trying to think of what we were talking about.

[PreCrisisDC]

TB: Maybe I’m just tired, but I don’t remember a classic Mike Zeck cover with Cap and the Punisher fighting.

Is this guy serious???? Tell me he's kidding, an editor of a series like this and "he doesn't remember that fight--Captain America #241????

[sol]

Well, that was informative.

I don't care what anyone says, that was a great issue. Not perfect, but the art was outta the park.

[Lucifer]

This issue felt like bad sex...unfulfilling

[Ace]

If anyone would remember that sort of thing, it's Mark Waid.

If anyone else would, it's Tom. Guy was probably tired.

I'll be amazed (but no longer surprised) if they actually do go with the cop out Loki/Mephisto reveal. Moderately relieved, but amazed none the less. I'd still much prefer the Psycho Man cop out reveal instead and tie it all to Annihilation.

The ending I need has Mark Millar going off to hollywood to become a successful producer or write Hot Wheels 2.

[skeletorjr]

Namor's throne looks so cozy

[ReaperFett]

Originally Posted by PreCrisisDC

TB: Maybe I’m just tired, but I don’t remember a classic Mike Zeck cover with Cap and the Punisher fighting.

Is this guy serious???? Tell me he's kidding, an editor of a series like this and "he doesn't remember that fight--Captain America #241????

That's not an annual.

[Spider-Friends]

Originally Posted by PreCrisisDC

Is this guy serious???? Tell me he's kidding, an editor of a series like this and "he doesn't remember that fight--Captain America #241????

Maybe you're tired. That was a Miller cover. The Cap annual cover was Cap vs. Wolverine.

[ender2814]

I agree. The world needs another Hot Wheels movie.

[Beefy McHuge]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

This issue felt like bad sex...unfulfilling

Bad sex with a woman you thought was a virgin but turns out to be your prostitute aunt, more like.

Looks like the next issue won't ship in January. As predicted.

[Graeme McMillan]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

NRAMA: Okay - probably not much you can, or need to tease for issue #7 at this point, but how about just one - a ballpark shot for when the issue will hit?

At this stage, we’ve finalized the page count for the issue, and as predicted, it’s a bit larger than a normal issue, clocking in at 28 pages. So we’re computing the schedule based on this fact (and now that we’re past the holidays so we can see what kind of effect they had upon everybody’s productivity) and David Gabriel and his guys will have an update on the shipping situation for everybody on Tuesday the 9tth!

Is this a subtle way of letting us know that issue 7 is going to be late, or a way of buying time because they're going to work their asses off through the weekend to make sure that it isn't...?

[Colossus2420]

Originally Posted by ReaperFett

That's not an annual.

No one ever said the Cap v. Punisher cover was on an annual. The Zeck cover is Cap v. Wolverine on a Cap Annual, the Cap v. Punisher cover is on Cap 241 and it's a Miller cover.

[ReaperFett]

Originally Posted by Colossus2420

No one ever said the Cap v. Punisher cover was on an annual. The Zeck cover is Cap v. Wolverine on a Cap Annual, the Cap v. Punisher cover is on Cap 241 and it's a Miller cover.

It's been edited, it did say it. I still have the page on my screen

[AbeFroman]

I know this is just geek nitpicking, but Sue told Namor this was the one of the worst conflicts they had been involved in. Does she remember stuff like the Infinity Gauntlet or the Infinity Crusade? Hell, even when Galactus attacked the first time and the planet was almost destroyed? Maybe she was just trying to make it seem worse than it is to convince Namor to help, but Civil War, though really dramatic, isn't a world-ending event like the others were.

I loved the issue, though. Great build up for #7. McNiven is incredible as always.

[ThomasC22]

I don't know what Mike Zeck cover they are talking about either but in searching I came across one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Check out this page on MikeZeck.com

http://www.mikezeck.com/pgs/artforsa...tionscans.html

They're recreations but with character substitutions in each one. My personal favorite so far is Captain America #286 with Punisher replacing Deathlok. Very cool.

(later edit: OK, my favorite now might be Web Of Spider-Man #32 with the red and blue costume)

[Tiger47]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

NRAMA: Okay - probably not much you can, or need to tease for issue #7 at this point, but how about just one - a ballpark shot for when the issue will hit?

At this stage, we’ve finalized the page count for the issue, and as predicted, it’s a bit larger than a normal issue, clocking in at 28 pages. So we’re computing the schedule based on this fact (and now that we’re past the holidays so we can see what kind of effect they had upon everybody’s productivity) and David Gabriel and his guys will have an update on the shipping situation for everybody on Tuesday the 9tth! Extra pages, no extra cost!

Why does this sound like this issue isn't anywhere close to being done, let alone being released as (re)scheduled this month? And, if it doesn't ship this month, won't it have to be resolicited, meaning the earliest we could see it would be April?

[Dusty]

I'd love to see a Mike Zeck drawn Cap/Punisher mini series.

[sol]

Originally Posted by AbeFroman

I know this is just geek nitpicking, but Sue told Namor this was the one of the worst conflicts they had been involved in. Does she remember stuff like the Infinity Gauntlet or the Infinity Crusade? Hell, even when Galactus attacked the first time and the planet was almost destroyed? Maybe she was just trying to make it seem worse than it is to convince Namor to help, but Civil War, though really dramatic, isn't a world-ending event like the others were.

I loved the issue, though. Great build up for #7. McNiven is incredible as always.

I was Infinitied-Out by the time of the Crusade, but Sue was dead for the Infinity Guantlet. The entire FF was dead. So, no. And even if she were there, i'd still wager fighting for my OWN freedom against people that are/were my friends is worse than cosmic-villain-of-the-week.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by ThomasC22

I don't know what Mike Zeck cover they are talking about either but in searching I came across one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Check out this page on MikeZeck.com

http://www.mikezeck.com/pgs/artforsa...tionscans.html

They're recreations but with character substitutions in each one. My personal favorite so far is Captain America #286 with Punisher replacing Deathlok. Very cool.

(later edit: OK, my favorite now might be Web Of Spider-Man #32 with the red and blue costume)

If I had 600 bucks to spare, I'd get that Iron Fist replacing Wolverine in the Cap Annual one in a second.

[pop monkey]

Well, all I know is Millar's got a lot of stuff to pack into issue 7 if this series is going to end up being at all satisfying. Seems to me, most of the "meat" of this event is going to have to be handled in tie-in books. Here's hoping WORLD WAR HULK will give us what this series isn't.

I'm also really tired of Millar wasting space on covering scenes that are better handled in some of the tie-in books. How much space was wasted on the whole brief inclusion of the Punisher on the team when this was nicely and more broadly covered in PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #2 this same week!?

[Colossus2420]

Originally Posted by ReaperFett

It's been edited, it did say it. I still have the page on my screen

Very well, then. I sit corrected.

[AbeFroman]

Originally Posted by sol

I was Infinitied-Out by the time of the Crusade, but Sue was dead for the Infinity Guantlet. The entire FF was dead. So, no. And even if she were there, i'd still wager fighting for my OWN freedom against people that are/were my friends is worse than cosmic-villain-of-the-week.

So was I. I actually though Infinity Crusade was crap, but I was just making a point about it not being even close to the most dire situation they've run into. I didn't remember that the FF was dead at the time, though; I'll have to dig out the issues and re-read them. Still, I'd rather be battling my friends, facing possible jail time, then having to face Thanos with the Infinity Gautlet.

Anyway, my post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I am really digging CW.

[roblewmac]

I Cannot believe this is the art that people shouted "NO FILL-INS" for it's so stiff

[cabbitabe]

I'm wondering if Hank was in on the Hulkling jacking...to make it look like he was still pro-reg...know what I mean ?

[Kolimar]

Nice interview. It's a pity the mistakes detract from it.