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12-29-2006, 10:09 AM
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SUPER-ARTICULATE: DEFINITIVE VERSIONS?
 by Troy Brownfield, The Rev. OJ Flow and Jim BeardI think we’re in love with the word “definitive” at this column lately. Recently, we did a piece on the “definitive” DC Direct wishlist. This time around, we thought we’d take a different tact and consider whether or not definitive versions of certain characters had already been made. We’ve got 17 important comic characters that have been realized repeatedly in figure form, and we’re taking a swing . . DC Superman  The Rev: Until they come out with an all-new sculpt, and the new JLA Superman (off designs by Ed Benes) is a pretty good start, you can't go wrong with the Modern Age Superman sculpted by Tim Bruckner and originally released in 2003. This was from the first-ever single-card wave DC Direct did based on the Man of Steel (and featured Bizarro and Brainiac 13). It's been the standard bearer for articulation in a DC Direct figure, and the look of the character fits into many collections that require a Superman figure. I always felt that Bruckner did a good job capturing a cumulative essence of Kal-El through many different artists who tackled this character in the 1990s and early part of this decade. Jim: Looking over all the Big S figures through the ages, I decided to go primal and say the Mego Superman. Pure, simple, and unadorned, he was a boy's best friend. Troy: I have to got with The Rev on this one. That Superman is a great sculpt and has some of the best articulation to ever adorn a DC figure. It’s a must have. Wonder Woman The Rev: Hard to say, and it pains me to say that for all the times he's sculpted Diana, Bruckner has yet to do a truly gorgeous Wonder Woman action figure. I happily own most all of them, but when he handles Alex Ross' designs she looks too manly, and off Ed McGuinness she doesn't look too pretty too. The Silver Age WW was pretty, but woefully lacking in articulation. In my possession at least, the WW from the first real JLA release is the closest thing we have to definitive. Jim: I don't think the definitive WW figure has been made yet, seriously. I hold out hope for DCD's 13" version. Troy: I really like the DC Direct version that came in the JLA boxed set, itself a slightly retooled version of a later release. Still, I think there’s room for definitive. The impending Infinite Crisis version has a chance.  BatmanThe Rev: I still think the definitive Batman has yet to be made, but there's been some nice ones in the meantime. While it is unfortunately pigeonholed in a comic age 40 years in the past, the Silver Age Batman is still one of the best figures DC Direct has EVER done. Just the right amount of articulation, a very welcome static pose, and my favorite Batman color scheme. If the new Crisis on Infinite Earths Batman had a cape that draped over the shoulders a little more, it would've gotten my vote (though it is still excellent). Jim: DCD's Silver Age boxed set of the Dynamic Duo gave us the most spot-on comics version of Batman yet. I love it. Troy: That one is pretty great. Again, I think this category is open, but my dark horse favorite would be the 10” Batman from the Justice League line. Just great.  The FlashThe Rev: I can't say that I personally own one that I've call definitive, though the Silver Age one is way up there (close to perftect, but sculpted a bit on the wee side compared to most of what's out there). But I'll tell you why the Justice League Classified Flash gets my vote, or rather, why it didn't. I have nothing against the one body (save for J'onn J'onzz) that they have used based off EM2's art, in fact I applaud it. They've gotten great mileage off it. But they should've produced two distinctive male bodies: one for the likes of Superman, Batman, Bizarro and Aquaman, and a slimmer one for the likes of the Flash and the upcoming Nightwing and Batman Beyond. Had they done this, I would've considered this Wally West figure one of my favorites and pretty definitive, because it's otherwise a winner. Jim: Again, I seriously believe the definitive Flash hasn't been made yet...unless we can count the First Appearance Golden Age Flash! Troy: Jim hits the nail with his assessment of “Which Flash?” I have a sentimental attachment to the Super Powers Flash, since he was the first figure of that line that I owned. But in terms of Wally, I might have to go with the slightly-more articulated version that you can find in Justice League Unlimited three-packs. It really captures the look and attitude of that character.  Green LanternThe Rev: I'd have to go with the Alex Ross' Justice Green Lantern, except that the slightly bigger scale for the entire line makes a lot of the figures incompatible with unrelated figures, if you're a stickler for that sort of thing. The other thing the Ross figure has going for it, aside from a stellar Karen Palinko sculpt, is that it captures the essence of the character from the early 1970s right through the 1980s. I love the figures with that kind of range. Jim: Easy: the DCD 13" Green Lantern is a figure that amazes me every time I look at it. I don't see anybody topping that. Troy: If we’re talking Hal, the Super Powers version is great and the Alex Ross version is just about perfect. If we’re talking John, it’s the one from the DC Direct JLA boxed set. For Guy, I’d go with his first DC Direct interpretation; same for Kyle. Of course, the best Green Lantern figure is still the DC Direct Kilowog. Aquaman The Rev: As maligned as it's been for its Colgate-white, Ken doll smile, everything else about the Arthur Curry figure from the Aquaman/Aqualad deluxe set is pretty darn definitive. I always thought it was cool, too, the way they textured the orange shirt for the scaly effect. Inspired work, I'd say. Jim: Broken record time again: no definitive version. Kind of a trend, huh? The basic, orange and green Aquaman I grew up with has not yet been captured in plastic in a manner that speaks to the character. Troy: If you’re down with the bearded Peter David-era King of the Seas, then the JLA boxed set from DC Direct is exactly what you need.  HawkmanThe Rev: The First Appearance is pretty much a Joe Kubert illustration jumpin' off the comic book page. That Alex Ross version is darn close, but I have to go with the debut. Fair's fair. Jim: I may get stoned for this but the Hawkman from the DCD boxed set is nigh perfect, especially the helmet. Forget the lack of articulation; he's so SA it hurts. Wish I still had mine... Troy: Both the two-pack version and the Ross version are terrific. For sheer accuracy based on the comics that we’re most familiar with, I’ve gotta go First Appearance, too. Martian Manhunter The Rev: I think it's on its way, not to be had yet. It's gonna be really hard to top the Alex Ross' Justice Martian Manhunter coming in 2007, but I am pretty happy with the Ed McGuiness version because of its uniqueness and something else more on the peculiar side. I like how the cape drops straight dawn rather than being sculpted like the wind is moving it. I wish they would do that like all the time, because it makes for better poseability on certain shelves. {shout out to the mysterious debut of the character recently in Smallville -- well played, sir.} Jim: DCD 13" J'Onn. Troy: Still waiting, but that Ross version might do the trick.  MarvelCaptain America, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor, Wolverine, The Hulk, The Thing, Daredevil The Rev: Troy said I should bring this up since I felt unqualified to comment, but I have not bought a Marvel action figure since the Mego brand back in the 1970s (and no one gave a hoot about Wolverine back then). No offense to anyone who is happy with the product, but I just cannot get onboard what Marvel has produced this decade. I don't want to say they're crap, and I know it's their response to DC Direct in terms of scale and output, but I've felt for a long time that excessive articulation and unattractive sculpts (especially on the females) has kept me away rather easily. Should they ever employ sculptors who invoke the art designs of Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, John Buscema, Dave Cockrum, John Romita (Senior AND Junior), Walt Simonson and John Byrne, that don't look like triple-jointed robots, I might check them out. Until then... Captain America Jim: Marvel Legends series 1 Cap is fantastic, albeit a bit too "built". Troy: I like the Series 1 Cap, but the version from the Cap/Red Skull two-pack is brilliant. Just about the perfect version. Spider-Man Jim: I love my Famous Covers Spider-Man. Removable mask; it don't get no better for me. [b]Troy:[b/] The first Spidey from the Spider-Man Classics line still holds up. It’s good in every way.  Iron ManJim: The new ML First Appearance (Mojo Series) Iron Man is so very fun and perfect in its likeness. Troy: I think we’re still waiting on this one. To be fair, all of the Marvel Legends Iron Man figures have been very good, but I want one that absolutely nails that ‘70s/early ‘80s incarnation. Thor Jim: No definitive version...wait...no, I'm saying the Mego Thor. They got the face right, and that's something no other Thor figure can claim. Troy: I have to say that the Thor from the ML Giant-Man series is probably as good as we’re ever going to get. Wolverine Jim: Pass. Troy: The one from the first “X-Men Classics” series. He’s in the classic blue and yellow and he’s . . .wait for it . . . SHORT. Wolverine should be undertall next to the other characters. For that reason, this one is perfection. The Hulk Jim: Oh, God, the ML First Appearance Hulk in green is absolutely beautiful. There ya go. Troy: That one’s great, only slightly improved upon by the Hulk from the ML Hulk/Leader two-packs. The Thing Jim: Mego Thing. See, the Megos are, as I said, primal. Troy: The version from the Fantastic Four boxed set. He looks like Byrne thing walked off the page. Just well-done overall.  DaredevilJim: Pass. Troy: The movie version. Just kidding. Actually, I think the ML DD/Kingpin 2-pack sculpt is terrific. He’s flexible and muscular; the first one from the Spider-Man line was way too skinny, and the next try was slightly weirdly proportioned. I think that this one is great. Spawn The Rev: I remember when Todd McFarlane did comics... Jim: Pass once, twice, thrice. Troy: Though there have been dozens of interpretations, I think that the first Spawn for the first series is still pretty great. Clean, effective, and a scale that everyone copied. Solid little figure. That’s our take . . . what say you? Whatta you think? Should we take a swing at Star Wars like this? |
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12-29-2006, 10:30 AM
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#2 |
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This article is screaming for more pictures. It'd really help to get a better idea of the figures they're talking about.
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12-29-2006, 10:36 AM
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#3 | |
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Nailed it. That Cap IS perfect. |
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12-29-2006, 10:43 AM
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#4 | |
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Totally agreed - I'm not an afficianado, but this sounds like a great debate. Can we request more graphics?? |
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12-29-2006, 10:52 AM
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#5 |
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For my money, the NEW FRONTIER Series 1 figures includes the definitive Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Blackhawk. Green Arrow, as much as I love the figure, needs a goatee to be "definitive" as the O'Neil/Adams look has more exposure than the Jack Kirby/Early Silver Age look does.
IMHO, of course. And if those designs in the back of the Absolute Edition come true, then we'll get definitive versions of Batman & Robin, Flash, Martian Manhunter and Dr. Fate...but that Silver Age Batman & Robin set will run a very very close second. |
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12-29-2006, 10:58 AM
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#6 | |
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I'll agree with you on the Superman (at least Golden age) and the Blackhawk (by default. Has he ever had a figure other than this one?), but I can't stand that Wonder Woman figure. I know it's pretty faithful to Darwyn Cooke's design, but man is that face ugly. And as for the article; Jim, if you're going to pass on half of the characters, and give 1/3 of an opinion on the others, maybe you should have just stayed out of the debate. That's just lazy. |
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12-29-2006, 11:25 AM
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#7 |
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12-29-2006, 11:28 AM
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#8 |
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(Except for Iron Man) These are the best!
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12-29-2006, 11:29 AM
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#9 |
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To clarify...
...I was referring to the Silver Age Hawkman that DC Direct first released in 2000 with my Joe Kubert remarks.
Must've had a space-out moment there in citing the First Appearance one, even though I am quite fond of that one. My bad.  |
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12-29-2006, 11:34 AM
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#10 |
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I have a soft spot for the Superfriends figures. As much as I thought the cartoon was crap even when I was a little kid (I can actually take it a lot better now), there's no denying (for me, at least) the iconic power of those Toth designs. I'm glad to see some of them getting a re-issue. That line really could have used a Hawkman, though.
Other than those, my all-time favorite hero figures have to be the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl. Those really do look like a Kubert drawing come to life. The First Appearance Hawkman looks like Dennis Neville -- the character looked completely different (mostly the helmet, which was more like a hat, the way Neville drew it) by the time Kubert started drawing him (Just saw O.J.'s post). I love the First Appearance line in general, but for Hawkman, I really wish they could have done a "Tenth Appearance" figure based on Moldoff's version after he had been on the book a little while and picked up steam. First Appearance Batman and Wonder Woman are also excellent. And First Appearance Batgirl (Cass). Along with Silver Age Batman & Robin (and Catwoman), they are my runner-up favorite DC figures. |
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12-29-2006, 11:35 AM
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#11 | |
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12-29-2006, 11:43 AM
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#12 |
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off-topic question
Hey folks,
Off-topic question, but still within your range of knowledge (hopefully)... Anyone know if Spider-Man & Friends action figures are still going to be made now that Hasbro has the Marvel licence? For my $$$ these are some of the best superhero toys out there AND they are my 2 yr old sons favorites! Also, anyone know if there will be a THOR Spidey&Friends? THANKS! -MF |
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12-29-2006, 11:54 AM
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#13 |
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Wow, I cannot believe how much I agree with Troy for the Marvel front. I can't say anything about DC as I like my figures to have elbows and knee joints, and thus feel DC Direct has failed in that regard (the new DC Superheroes line is great).
I honestly do not believe it's possible to have a definitive Iron Man figure because his look has changed so much over the years. The best you can have is a definitive figure for each armor. At this point, I think they've done about every major armor for Iron Man in the Marvel Legends line, save the 90's armor that he wore around the time of Infinity Gauntlet, and I don't believe they've done the new Extremist armor. While the first Spidey from the Spider-Man Classics is great, I do like the McFarlane Spidey version as a toy very much. The only thing I feel holding it back from being the definitive figure is that I don't know if I feel right saying the definitive Spider-Man figure should be based off McFarlane's art. Wolverine is somewhat the same as Iron Man in that he's had so many looks. The X-Men Classics one is the only one to get his height right, but I think he should have been a bit more beefy. They'll get it soon enough. |
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12-29-2006, 12:05 PM
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#14 |
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Am I the only one who thinks Cap looks a bit freaky?
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12-29-2006, 12:46 PM
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#15 | |
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No, thanks. I found this article lacking, to say the least. There were very few comparisons between figures, descriptions of what each "judge" considers in choosing a "definitive" version (size, artist, sculpt, articulation, etc.) Way to many "hasn't been done yet" answers. Is there any that come close? What are they missing? And why would you include a someone who is going to bow-out half way through, leaving us with only one suggestion for Wolverine, one of comics most produced figures? Pass? On Wolverine with no explanation? Of all the versions out there? Sorry, I thought this was a great idea for an article but was dissapointed in the execution. I found it poorly researched and most characters were merely glossed-over. |
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12-29-2006, 01:16 PM
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#16 |
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Oooh, good topic starter, not very well thought out article. Here's a few of my picks:
The Thing: Marvel Legends Series 2  Hulk: Marvel Select Ultimate Hulk  Spider-Man: Super-Posable from Spider-Man movie Series 1  Wolverine: Marvel Legends Series 6  Captain America: Marvel Legends Series 1  I'll pick my DC figures later. |
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12-29-2006, 01:30 PM
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#17 | |
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Poorly researched? An opinion piece is poorly researched? One where no statistics or factual information, for the most part, is used and it is accurate whenever it is? And I'll guess you're not familiar with the column. OJ & Jim are part of the regular contributors to the Super Articulate columns. This isn't some situation where they were just called in for this column or Troy just sent out the message that he wanted people to help on this column and they successfully won an audition. OJ articulated why he doesn't have an informed opinion on the Marvel figures. I'm guessing Jim passed on figures that he has never had enough of an interest in to have really paid attention to all the sculpts out there for them (but that's just a guess). I think the Star Wars question was meant only to gauge if there are enough readers who are fans of the Star Wars figures who might like to see a similar article. Remember...half the fun of articles like these would be the opportunity to debate, at length, your differences of opinion in the message board thread. Articles like Super Articulate and Best Shots serve the dual purposes of being reviews AND conversation starters...so if you don't like the reviews so much, take advantage of the opportunity to start a conversation about what YOU would have said about a figure or an issue. It's a much more friendly way to go about things and is akin to making those lemons into lemonade. Fellas, I thought you did a bang up job, though I'd love to see even more pics like some of the other readers said they were starved for. Also, I was kinda confused at two different Superman figures being shown...with neither appearing to be a Mego to my knowledge, when only one non-Mego Supes was selected. |
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12-29-2006, 02:08 PM
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#18 |
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My Picks
Superman
 Batman (tie)   Wonder Woman  Green Lantern  Flash  Aquaman  Green Arrow  Hawkman  |
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12-29-2006, 02:16 PM
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#19 |
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I'm still holding out for a decent Diana as well. Ideally not a 13" version for reasons of scale.
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12-29-2006, 02:22 PM
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#20 |
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I think Jim is letting his cherished childhood memories of Mego replace his common sense. There is no way the Thing with a cloth costume and slight build is definitive -- especially as compared to the Marvel Legends II Thing. In fact, I think that remains the best Marvel Legends figure to date. Even by DCD standards, it's a sweet figure.
I agree that we have yet to see the definitive Wonder Woman -- hard to believe as there must be close to 10 different versions of the figure to date. I don't think Spider-Man was mentioned, but I'm waiting for a figure that captures the Romita (Sr.) era. Unfortunately, the over-articulation may destroy any chance of that happening. No doubt that Silver Age Batman is the best to date -- easily capturing the Infantino era. Now, if only we had one representing Adams and/or Aparo. The Crisis version ain't it! Last edited by kcekada : 12-29-2006 at 02:24 PM. |
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12-29-2006, 02:55 PM
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#21 |
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When he said the first real JLA release of Wonder Woman was the closest, could someone show me what that figure looks like?
I haven't gotten any figures in.........a long time. So I've been looking for some, on the Big Three only. Does anyone like the Alex Ross versions of the Big Three and what are the top choices of best figures of them? |
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12-29-2006, 03:03 PM
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#22 | |||
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 An "opinion piece" should contain opinions...too many figures did not. Quote:
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12-29-2006, 03:21 PM
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#23 | |
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Mr. B...c'mon...did you pay attention to what I actually said when I brought up that you must not be familiar with the column??? You questioned why someone was involved in the article who didn't offer an opinion on half of the figures discussed. If you're familiar with the column, you'd realize that OJ is a regular contributor to the feature and there'd be no reason to keep him off half the column just because he didn't feel like he could contribute to the whole column. The inclusion of more pictures isn't a research issue, Mr. B. More often than not, it can be a column size issue. It can be a formatting issue. It can be an issue of not wanting the feature to be 2/3 full of pictures versus prose. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find more pics via Google...so that certainly isn't the issue. I have a beef with you? Sir...if I have ever had a disagreement with you in the past, I promise you I've forgotten it. I just find it perplexing that you'd spend so much time and effort criticizing the column for not being comprehensive enough and including contributions from people who passed on several figures, yet not offer up any of your own opinions on any of the figures. You rather criticize than participate at all. That implies a whole lot about where you're coming from, to me. |
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12-29-2006, 03:43 PM
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#24 | |
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Quote:
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12-29-2006, 03:52 PM
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#25 |
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Love them Mego's!
Glad to see there's still some love for the Mego's. LOVED that line! O'course, I was 12 at the time but they were seminal in my love of the good guys and bad guys. Why oh why doesn't someone buy the sculpt and start producing these again? I don't know how the industry works or if this were even possible, but it seems like a no brainer. I've seen in Previews some releases based on the old Robin Hood/King Arthur line Mego had in the 70's, so maybe there's hope. If not, I'll keep reading Twisted Toyfare Theatre!
Can't wait for the 13" Wonder Woman. Hey DC, any way to be "influenced" by the look of Lynda Carter for the face on that? |
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