BEHIND THE PAGE: GREG PAK

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

Anyone who thinks the term "comics-reading intellectual" is an oxymoron needs to meet Greg Pak.

The guy is brilliant.

Yeah, it's true that there are a lot of meanings to the word "brilliant." Bright, shining, sharp and clear in tone, magnificent, superb are a few of the definitions listed in the dictionary. And those are admittedly some of the opinions you'll hear bandied about by people who have read the comics Pak's written, like Phoenix Endsong, Battlestar Galactica or his Planet Hulk stories in The Incredible Hulk title. Whether those meanings are on the mark is a matter of taste.

But the one definition of the word "brilliant" that is an indisputable fact when describing Pak is the last meaning in the dictionary entry: Marked by unusual and impressive intellectual acuteness. Yeah, that's the one. The guy's brilliant.

Raised in Dallas, Texas, Pak (pronounced "Pahk") came from a suburban life that he often describes as "Schwinn bicycles and Boy Scouts." The son of a Korean immigrant father and Midwestern-raised mother, he took that scouting stuff seriously and went all the way to achieving the difficult level of Eagle Scout.

As if that wasn't Americana enough, Pak decided to make a career out of changing the world. He caught the "make-the-world-a-better-place" bug in high school and pursued a political career that took him through a degree in political science from Yale University and a stint on Texas Gov. Ann Richards' campaign staff.

While at Oxford University on a Rhodes Scholarship, studying history in hopes of preparing for a political career (yeah, graduating from Yale wasn't enough for him -- seeing a pattern here?), Pak was first exposed to the excitement of telling a story in a student film. He was hooked, and decided to switch career goals to making movies. Never shying away from a challenge, what better way for someone like Pak to pursue that goal than by getting his graduate degree at NYU's prestigious film school?

Fast forward a few years, and Greg Pak has dozens of film awards to his name. His independent films -- particularly the feature-length Robot Stories he wrote and directed, which tells four short tales about artificial intelligence -- have been recognized at cinema festivals around the globe. And his quirky short films are some of the most downloaded movies on websites like www.atomfilms.com.

So, you're thinking -- OK, I get it. He's smart. He's a bit of an overachiever. But now he writes comics? What gives?

The easy answer would be to point to his life-long love of storytelling and how he grew up reading sci-fi stories, fantasy novels, and comic books. But Pak can take it a step further and prove himself truly worthy of the title brilliant by connecting his careers on an intellectual level. Wait until you hear his comparison of the themes behind Marvel comics characters to messages of American social justice and equality. Or his examination of how provocative social messages can be successfully conveyed in stories through the experience of fictional characters.

Yeah, pretty intense, huh? "Intellectual" starts looking like an understatement.

Yet you talk to him awhile and you also start to find out -- the dude also just sees the appeal of "Hulk smash." And what comics fan can't appreciate that?

As part of our series of articles looking Behind the Page to find out more about the people who create comics, we sat down with Greg Pak to talk about what it's been like to come into the comics industry as an outsider, what he really thinks of continuity, and how his life brought him to be named as the regular series writer for the Hulk.

Newsarama: Looking back on your career - and your life really, it's hard not to notice that early pursuit of a political career as a major influence. That's not something a lot of kids grow up wanting to do, and yet you had a very determined path going in that direction for some time. Why do you think politics was your goal so early in life?

Greg Pak: You know, I think maybe it was a few things. I'm from a multi-racial background, being half Korean and half Caucasian. And I think from a very young age, I was aware of questions of race and social justice. I mean, almost from a ridiculously young age. And I was also a big believer in the fundamental principles of freedom and responsibility. And you know, that also came through the Boy Scouts. It's this sense of America as a place where people of all different backgrounds come together, and they find that the nation is based on these ideals, and that politics is a way to defend those ideals.

NRAMA: You've said in past interviews that you grew up loving stories about heroes like Batman, Moon Knight and Daredevil among others, and those types of superhero comics usually echoed the same themes of American justice that you've just mentioned. We might be stretching things a bit here, but do you think your love of superhero comics helped define your sense of social justice?

GP: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think that's one of the great things about Marvel comics in particular. What kind of defined Marvel comics in its hey-day, and in this day, was that so many of the Marvel characters were rejects. You know, they were outsiders. Peter Parker, the X-Men, the Hulk -- all of these characters are characters whom other people view as threats or monsters. And in the X-Men, it's a semi-explicit racial allegory. In these days, you could probably say it's an allegory for homophobia or something like that. So these characters are always fighting for an inclusive and fair and free community, where people of all backgrounds can be accepted and have equal opportunities.

It's seldom spelled out so explicitly, but that's the other great thing about comics. They're not preachy. These are fun, action, superhero-oriented comics, but the ideals are totally sound. And I don't know if I learned those things directly from the comics, but comics were definitely there to reinforce them.

NRAMA: After graduating from Yale with a political science degree, you worked on Ann Richards' successful campaign for governor. What did you do for her campaign?

GP: I worked for her for about a year. I worked on her campaign and then worked in her office of education policy after she was elected. When I was working on the campaign, I was one of the field reps, so I was one of the guys who driving around to distant counties and going to state fairs, making little speeches, coordinating with the volunteers, making sure everybody had their yard signs and organizing phone banks and all that kind of stuff.

NRAMA: She ended up being a nationally recognized figure. That must have been quite an experience for an aspiring young politician.

GP: It was great. It was really something.

NRAMA: Your resume looks like you were all about politics in those early years, but the fact that you switched so successfully later in life to storytelling through movies and comics begs the question -- was that always rattling around in there?

GP: Well, all the time I was growing up, I was drawing and writing short stories and doing photography, and also doing theater and improv comedy through Yale and beyond, so there was this big part of me that was devoted to storytelling. But for some reason or another, I never let myself think of that as an actual career.

NRAMA: After working in Ann Richards' office, you went to England to study history at Oxford University. Why back to school again?

GP: The reasoning was that I was going to become a better politician if I had a better background in history. My background in history was not particularly strong.

NRAMA: But you ended up finding a new career. A new passion.

GP: I did. While I was in England, for the first time, I had the chance to finally get involved in film-making, which was something I had always been intensely interested in, but never had a chance to do. And all the lights went on. I was making short films with the student film group there, and I realized that's what I needed to be doing. I applied to and got into NYU for the graduate film program.

And the kind of funny thing was that it seems kind of roundabout, going from politics to filmmaking. But a lot of the same kind of skills that I'd worked on developing while I was working on the Ann Richards campaign are the same kind of skills you need in order to make an independent movie. You're motivating a lot of volunteers, you're making miracles happen with no budget -- all that kind of coordination and creative problem solving and people work is very similar to logistic issues you deal with when making a film. On that kind of level it made a lot of sense.

It also made sense that the things that motivated me to go into politics were connected to the things that motivated me to be a storyteller, in that through storytelling you're trying to connect with people. You're trying to create characters and tell a story that reaches people on a human level. And in politics, in order to be effective, you have to do the same kind of thing. So there's some continuity there.

NRAMA: You say "connect with people." Do you buy into to the idea that movies -- and I guess, by extension, comics stories -- should have larger, underlying messages within them?

GP: Well, it's interesting. There's an old Hollywood cliché that if you want to send a message, call Western Union. Supposedly some old Hollywood producer told some young idealistic writer that someday back in the '20s or whatever it was. And I think in entertainment, it's very easy for people to tune out when they think they're suddenly being given a message. Like when they think, this story suddenly isn't about these characters -- this story is about conveying a certain point or getting an idea across. And the interesting thing is that every great piece of art does convey a message, but it does it through the characters.

That's the big thing. If all you want to do is get across your idea about political issues or something, and you don't really care about the characters, then the whole piece is going to fall apart. The only way for it to be effective is if it rings true through the experiences of the characters. The characters and that kind of human emotional struggle -- that's the most important thing all the time.

NRAMA: So during and after your time at NYU, you made tons of short films.

GP: Yeah, I've done all different kinds of short stories.

NRAMA: But then you finally got to make a feature-length independent film, or at least a collection of four short stories that tied together into feature format. Tell us about the process of writing, directing and actually making Robot Stories.

GP: Over the years, I've written a bunch of different feature screenplays, but the challenge is always getting the money to actually make a feature. And like a lot of young writers, I'd written screenplays that I needed millions to make, and despite the fact that my short films had a lot of success – won some pretty big awards and played in some pretty great festivals and all that kind of stuff -- surprisingly enough, nobody was standing around with several million dollars to drop into my pocket. [laughs]

NRAMA: Go figure.

GP: That's the struggle. How do you actually make a movie? Eventually I was looking back over all the things I'd written over the years and I dug up a few short films that I'd written that were about a half-hour long. And I realized looking back on them that they shared certain themes. I had several different short films that I'd written at different times, and I don't know why I never made the connection between them, but when I was looking at them, I realized they all dealt with kind of fundamental life and death struggles in terms of everyday life. Like families and couples coming to terms with questions of life and death, really. But then they all also had some kind of crazy robot twist. They all had robots in them in some way or another -- robots or artificial intelligence. So I started working on them to see if they could come together as some kind of anthology story. And that's how Robot Stories came about. By the way, shameless plug: if anyone's interested in reading more about the writing of the film, the "Robot Stories and More Screenplays" paperback is now available at Amazon.com, and the introductions to the different screenplays are full of information about the writing and production of the films.

NRAMA: One of the segments of Robot Stories says it takes place in 2007, and there are robots -- appropriately called "iPeople" -- and you showed how one such "iPerson" named Archie reacted to his world and found a connection with another iPerson. Since it's almost 2007, is there any way I can order an Archie iPerson for my house?

GP: [laughs] I actually played Archie in the picture. That's me.

NRAMA: Oh, wow. Now I'm embarrassed that I wanted to order one of you.

GP: [laughs] No, no, no. That's fine. It's funny because nobody recognizes me because I've grown a beard since then.

NRAMA: Well, who knew you were an actor too? I guess I'll order a different version of Archie. But really, watching Robot Stories, it becomes apparent that you love science fiction. Although the stories are all really personal and tend to focus on relationships, there's no doubt they are influenced by your early exposure to the science fiction genre because of the questions they raise about artificial intelligence as it relates to the human experience.

GP: Since I was a kid, I've loved science fiction, I've loved fantasy, and I've loved genre in general really. I mean I can remember at one point kind of discovering Humphrey Bogart and watching every sort of film noir that he was associated with, and then all of the other film noirs, and all those old gangster and detective movies. And I watched tons of Westerns. I've always been a sucker for genre. But yes, science fiction has always held a special place in my heart since I was a kid. And Ray Bradbury's stories in particular. I can remember at the age of 9 reading stuff like “The Veldt” and “All Summer in a Day” and just being blown away. I just thought those were the greatest stories ever.

NRAMA: Let's fast forward a little here. You were writing scripts, making short films and hoping for a feature film like any aspiring filmmaker, but your agent found out that Marvel Comics was looking for writers.

GP: Yeah. And I was like, "Holy cow! Yes!"

NRAMA: Marvel Editor in Chief Joe Quesada has said you had more unpublished scripts than anyone, because the company kept changing directions and pushing your projects to the wayside. But you finally got your Warlock story published. You've said before that the Warlock mini was kind of an eye-opener for you, coming into the comics industry as an outsider and unaware of the way comics fans react to certain things. What happened with that "first time out?"

GP: When Warlock came out, I was really proud of it and thought it was a great story with great art from Charlie Adlard. We had this plan from the beginning that eventually in the book, we would show how this new Warlock story ties into the classic Warlock stories. There was this big twist in Issue #4 that shows that this story ties into the continuity of the classic Warlock stories. Because I love those classic Warlock stories.

NRAMA: But you didn't give any hint that it was coming in Issue #4, so fans didn't react well. It looked like you were changing the mythos too much for them.

GP: If I were writing that today, knowing what I know now, I think I would have been able to better set things up to give people more of a sense from the beginning how things could tie in so that old fans would be able to get it.

NRAMA: Now it's been announced that you're the regular series writer on The Incredible Hulk. That's obviously because of the success of Planet Hulk. You've said before that it was Marvel's idea to send him off into space and have him fighting aliens, right?

GP: All credit to Joe. He had this brilliant image in his head. He said imagine the Hulk in a gladiatorial arena on an alien planet, with a big battle-axe fighting monsters. I thought that was incredible. I thought, "I want a piece of that," you know?

NRAMA: And the whole point seems to be to remove him from earth so he can really be the Hulk.

GP: Well, the challenge with the Hulk is always to find a way for the Hulk to cut loose and do what the Hulk does. We want to see the Hulk smash things. You know what I mean? Because that's the vicarious pleasure of seeing somebody totally lose it. We can't do that in our own lives. But there's a huge amount of satisfaction in seeing the Hulk do that.

NRAMA: Your science fiction background must have played a part in the development of the story too.

GP: I think because I had the science fiction background and they knew I was really into the Hulk, they let me go crazy. Joe and the other editors gave me several plot point ideas, and then they kind of let me go to town. I had to develop the story and the set-up and Hulk's crew and all these supporting characters, the ecology and politics and mythology of the planet.

NRAMA: But it's interesting how, while you were building the new world, you didn't just throw out the past. It's obvious in your work on Phoenix Endsong that you enjoy incorporating the characters' history into your stories, but it's surprising how much you were able to do that with Planet Hulk. The setting for the story is nowhere near earth and there are no human characters, but you were able to tie in fun historical moments with characters like Thor and Silver Surfer and other earth-bound stories from past Marvel issues.

GP: See, that's the kind of way continuity can be so much fun. Continuity can be a big pain, because sometimes continuity is conflicting and contradictory and it's just so hard to make sense of it. But continuity is like history. You set things up in a character's past or in a character's present, and then those things pay off later. And it's a surprise and a pleasure to see the way those things pay off. Continuity provides that kind of history for characters. There are tons of interesting relationships and moments these characters have been through, and you can end up using those things to great effect.

NRAMA: Your next project is Phoenix – Warsong, a five-issue miniseries beginning in September that will focus on the Phoenix Force and the Stepford Cuckoos, while your previous Endsong mini focused on the Phoenix attraction to Jean Grey. You've already talked to us about what we can expect from that story, but can you explain what it is as a writer that attracts you to the story of the Phoenix Force? Is it that sci-fi love you've got going again, or is it more that you grew up with the X-Men?

GP: Oh, I think it's definitely both of those things. I mean, that whole Phoenix mythology is kind of a classic sci-fi theme. You know, that more-than-human question. What happens to a person when he or she acquires powers or skills or a consciousness that's beyond human comprehension or understanding? What happens to that person who takes that next step and goes beyond? So that's a very attractive theme. It's a lot of fun to work with that theme.

It's also -- like the Hulk, actually -- just a really great mythic theme. I think that's one of the things I like about comics too is that these characters' stories and histories and powers all tie into the classic, mythic archetypes. It's almost a cliche to talk about Joseph Campbell, but that whole hero's journey stuff -- it's totally relevant; it's something that's imbedded in us from whatever culture we've grown up in.

NRAMA: You mention Joseph Campbell -- that idea of the "hero's journey" is all over movie screens lately, which is especially beneficial to those of us who love superhero movies. They're all about that concept, and we're seeing more and more superhero movies all the time. People seem to love it.

GP: Yeah! Like I said, it's almost become a cliché. But there's a reason that people refer to it. It totally resonates. Those kinds of mythic tropes are part of what being human is about -- we have those sorts of storytelling elements built into us. It's like our own individual life experience writ large.

NRAMA: And you see that applying to the Phoenix?

GP: The Phoenix is totally like that. I mean, the Phoenix is about this whole awakening of consciousness and discovery of the destiny and a mission that may or may not be compatible with the life you've led before or the people you loved before. That's a great kind of story and theme to work with. So I've loved it both for the sci-fi stuff and for those mythic elements.

NRAMA: OK, so future dream projects?

GP: This is going to sound so Pollyanna, but I'm actually living one of my dream projects now by writing the Hulk. In the comics world, other dream projects: I'm hungry to get my hands on another team book at some point. I won't say which one or what for fear of jinxing my chances, but I love the kind of interactions and the challenge of building a team that has its own internal conflicts and playing with a group of characters. I'm also really hungry to do some creator-owned characters and stories, and hopefully in the next year or so, I'll be doing some of that. I've got some pretty crazy ideas for that, and I've started putting some stuff together to make
that happen.

NRAMA: And in the film world? You have a feature script you've written, right?

GP: My dream project for years had been a Western called Rio Chino with a Chinese gunslinger and a Mexican heroine. It's going to be awesome when I finally get to make it.

NRAMA: A Chinese gunslinger? Quite a twist on the Western genre.

GP: The time is now. The world is ready for it. [laughs] I've just got to get the dollars. It's going to be a lot of fun. And I'm ready to do that.

I also have a couple other screenplays I'm working on, and hopefully I'll get a feature off the ground in a couple years.

NRAMA: OK, we've been discussing all kinds of grand ideas about politics and storytelling and myth. But you mentioned something earlier that's going to blow the image of you as an intellectual. Improv comedy? You're a former Yale/Oxford politician wannabe! But you like doing improv comedy?

GP: [laughs] Well, it's kind of crazy, but it all ties in. Politics, improv comedy and storytelling -- the common thread between all of those things, I think, is this notion of building a connection. Making a connection. And the glory of improv comedy is that it's people working together building something, step by step, that no one of them could ever have built on their own.

And you do it through this fundamental improv principle of "yes, and." It's the notion that somebody comes out with something on stage, like "wow, there are a lot of penguins out here." And when someone comes out with something in real life, our first impulse is to say, "no, that's a dumb idea" or "there are no penguins -- what penguins?" But in improv, you're trained to say yes: "Wow, yes, there are a lot of penguins here." And you add the next thing: "And they look kind of
hungry." And suddenly, you're building something. You're starting to build a scene. You're starting to build a world and a set of relationships, and it's done on the fly, on the spot, just by people working together.

And that improv ethos, I think, is kind of an exercise in community-building but also an exercise in thinking that allows people to come together and work together and co-exist and eventually build something and make something that would never have been made otherwise. That's not unlike the political endeavor. And it also relates to the storytelling impulse -- creating something bit by bit and asking the reader to go along with you and partake in this crazy world you're setting up.

NRAMA: That's fascinating. But see, I was trying to expose the wild funny guy inside you, and you just turned a question about why you like improv comedy into this whole analytical discussion about its similarities to politics and storytelling.

GP: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. I should have tossed you a one-liner there.

NRAMA: No, no. If anything, it's revealing about your personality. But surely you let loose a little when you're doing improv?

GP: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. I haven't done it for awhile, actually. I'm really rusty, I guess. I need to get back out there. When I started making Robot Stories, I didn't have time for anything else, and improv is one of those things I haven't done for awhile.

NRAMA: It sounds like you're really rusty on having fun outside work, Greg. You've got your fingers in so many things right now. Do you ever make time for anything besides working?

GP: [laughs] Well, I read a lot of comic books! I mean, that's what's fun right now. It's funny, and I joke about this: All the things that I did for fun as a 10-year-old are things I'm doing now for a living. So it's a pretty good life.

For more on Greg Pak, check out www.pakbuzz.com

[soulsonic]

Get Hulk some Proactiv solution STAT!!!

[joefixit2]

The Hulk comic had been floating around for the last few years but Greg Pak has taken the character and the comic back to great heights. The story has been great so far and gets better with each issue.

[Mr.Dee]

wow those images from Planet Hulk are amazing, especially that last one with evolved Miek and Caiedra. Very "Gladiator-esque"

[BillReed]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

All the things that I did for fun as a 10-year-old are things I'm doing now for a living.

That my friends, is The Dream.

Great interview.

[MR2525]

Greg Pak is awesome! A Great Talent!

[majinlex]

Great interview.

But was there ever any confusion on how to pronounce "Pak"? Who needed that spelled phonetically?

[Jack Burton]

Great interview. Planet Hulk is a whole lot of fun.

[Scott King]

I didn't realize he had a film background.

[Crump's Brother]

If you like Greg Pak's writing, give his Robot Stories scripts a try. He offers commentary on them as well.

Robot Stories

[Prometheus3]

Great interview and this proves that Greg Pak is awesome. Planet Hulk has been a wild ride and I have no intention of getting off of it until I have to.

I wish Greg Pak was writing Mighty Avengers instead of Bendis. Sigh...

[HartyPotter]

Originally Posted by majinlex

Great interview.

But was there ever any confusion on how to pronounce "Pak"? Who needed that spelled phonetically?

Most people probably pronounce it "pack." Anyway, in Korean, it would sound more like "bahk"

[TheLizard207]

Excellent interview. Thank you Greg for writing the best Hulk stories in ages.

[comicbookreader]

Great interview! Thanks, GP, for the fun that is Planet Hulk. And of course, we can't wait to see what Green Scar's gonna do once he gets his hands on the Illuminati...

[Tiger47]

never mind.

[Kolimar]

I knew about his film backgroud but almost nothing about the rest of his life. Yale, Oxford, politics, improv comedy, boy scout! Very good interview, Vaneta.

[Kolimar]

Originally Posted by Scott King

I didn't realize he had a film background.

It was one of the first things mentioned back when he was starting Warlock. And again when he was starting Hulk.

[Kolimar]

Originally Posted by BillReed

That my friends, is The Dream.

Heheheh

[CrankyViking]

Ha! I laugh at Greg Pak. He calls that a beard...

Great stories, Greg. Kudos. Live the dream.

[lorbaat2]

Sigh. I wish we'd heard more about his NYU film grad school stuff- but only because I'm planning on applying there myself.

[Newcastle]

No mention of Mastermind Excello?

Boo.

[Scorned1]

Mike Turner's cover for Hulk looks F*cking awsome!

[jaredgood1]

Planet Hulk has been great and Endsong was amazing. For crying out loud, the man took all the existential/philosophical aspects that Morrison put into the Phoenix and expanded on them in an intelligent way.

Plus, the Wolvie / Jean sequence in Endsong literally had my jaw on my chest. Far better than what happened in X3.

[turk9]

I wasn't much of a fan of the Phoenix stuff Mr. Pak did, so I was going to take a pass on his Hulk stuff. I had dropped Hulk after the Peter David issues. I started ordering the Hulk again right at the beginning of the Planet Hulk run since my 7 year old nephew is a huge Hulk fan (yeah, I know its an age 11+ comic...so arrest me). Luckily, I read the issues before I passed them along. I was hooked. Now I pull 2 copies of Hulk a month, one for me, one for the nephew. This Hulk storyline is easily one of the best in years. And let's not forget the art teams. They have both been tremendous and just as integral to the enjoyment of the storyline.

Psst...no one tell my nephew I picked up a 2nd printing of the first issue in the Planet Hulk run to pass along to him and kept the 1st printing for myself...

turk

[HartyPotter]

Originally Posted by Newcastle

No mention of Mastermind Excello?

Boo.

Seriously... Mastermind Excello NEEDS to reappear in the MU. Either with a mini, have him join a new team of youngsters, or stick him on Runaways. He's my favorite new character in a long time.