TOM BREVOORT TALKS CIVIL WAR DELAYS

[Terram]

Originally Posted by Snowspinner

Yep. That single issue of a midlist title that's late sure is equivalent to slipping on your flagship title.

It is to me, the consumer.

Seriously though, where is it? I was really looking forward to it over half a year ago.

[superboy072]

It's just a shame that if it's going to take nearly two months between issues 4 and 5, that means we'll probably have to wait two months each on the other two issues. I don't mind delays if you're told to expect them, like with bi-monthly books. But Marvel acted like they were on top of this.

Kind of an unprofessional way to try and reach out to new readers the way they have with Civil War.

[Bullwinkle]

There are two things that bug me about this most:

1. It's not the fact that the book is gonna be late which is the worst part, it's the fact that Marvel waited until the day before it was due to announce it! That's just plain rude to the fans and retailers who were anxiously awaiting it .... It's one thing to be good to your creators and staff and it's another thing to be good to the people who actually buy your products and keep those people employed in the first place! I think some genuine advance notice (which could have been easily achieved) would have averted this whole drama over the incident. Some may have complained, but on the whole the reaction wouldn't have been so violent. The fact is that no one likes being blown off on short notice ....

2. Being honest here, can't these guys just work harder?! When I have deadlines at work I have to hit them - pure and simple. If I'm behind on my work then I have to work overtime to make it happen. I have to live, eat, sleep and breathe my work because I'm on a schedule and things just need to be done. There's no excuse, no getting off the hook - people depend on me and I have to deliver even it means sitting at my desk till something is done. Now, is there any reason why this standard can't be applied to comics?! Illness I can understand because something like that is unpredictable and sometimes insurmountable, but general lateness can be counteracted by working longer to make up the necessary time! If it takes an 8-hour day to do one page then start working 12-14 hour days till you're back on track, etc. What makes these guys above the rest of us who have to pull our fingers out when deadlines loom?! That's what makes me mad ....

- Chris

[JJZapata]

I think they wanna wait for the hulk to come back and kick some pro reg ass

[saiyanspider]

My original opinion stands, Marvel editorial screwed up. Stop blaming fans for being upset. This should have been coordinated better, and CW should have been at least almost done before being solicited.

[avatar]

Originally Posted by Enigma20XX

I got some prime wetland in Florida that's just aching for a buyer... interested?

Seriously, if you believe what you just said, you'll buy anything. Just because YOU say that they're not wanted, they have no right to be offended? Jeez...

Then tell me what other reason is there for fill-in artists.

[saiyanspider]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

There are two things that bug me about this most:

1. It's not the fact that the book is gonna be late which is the worst part, it's the fact that Marvel waited until the day before it was due to announce it! That's just plain rude to the fans and retailers who were anxiously awaiting it .... It's one thing to be good to your creators and staff and it's another thing to be good to the people who actually buy your products and keep those people employed in the first place! I think some genuine advance notice (which could have been easily achieved) would have averted this whole drama over the incident. Some may have complained, but on the whole the reaction wouldn't have been so violent. The fact is that no one likes being blown off on short notice ....

2. Being honest here, can't these guys just work harder?! When I have deadlines at work I have to hit them - pure and simple. If I'm behind on my work then I have to work overtime to make it happen. I have to live, eat, sleep and breathe my work because I'm on a schedule and things just need to be done. There's no excuse, no getting off the hook - people depend on me and I have to deliver even it means sitting at my desk till something is done. Now, is there any reason why this standard can't be applied to comics?! Illness I can understand because something like that is unpredictable and sometimes insurmountable, but general lateness can be counteracted by working longer to make up the necessary time! If it takes an 8-hour day to do one page then start working 12-14 hour days till you're back on track, etc. What makes these guys above the rest of us who have to pull our fingers out when deadlines loom?! That's what makes me mad ....

- Chris

AMEN! Couldn't have said it better myself..........

[saiyanspider]

Originally Posted by avatar

Then tell me what other reason is there for fill-in artists.

Why is a fill in artist so bad, just don't hire a crappy one..

be honest, if George Perez, or Jim lee were annouced as fill in artists would there be a problem? Get someone good and no problem.

Sides I blame Marvel editorial, I agree deadlines are deadlines, and the artists should meet them, just like any other creative job. That said if Marvel is willing to give the artist leeway, then wait till the book is done, and then solicit it. I'm tired of the excuses, GET THESE BOOKS OUT ON TIME!!!! All the hype, and the interconnected crossovers, there is no excuse.

Look at it this way, this sucks for people who were waiting for CW to end to get back to their titles regular story now they have to wait 2 MONTHS MORE?? I waited for crisis to be over to read Superman again, I would be really pissed if their delay affected my Superman books.

NO EXCUSE, GET A FILL IN ARTIST, OR WAIT TILL THE BOOK IS DONE.

[Tom Brevoort]

So I figure, hey, it's only six pages of angry replies, right? How long can it take to answer some of this stuff?

Let's see.

Originally Posted by TheWildCard

So why doesn't TB call out Millar and McNiven?

Double standard right there

No, no double standard, for two reasons:

1) The thing that everybody seems to have missed is that I didn't call out Dan per se--I answered a direct question from a specific poster about the situation with Dan, and the fact that I'd been taking little digs at him at conventions and the like. And the post in question is now two months old--it's just that somebody only ran across it a few days ago and cross-posted it, and then it took on a life of its own across the whole net. But THING is done at the moment, Dan's new project hasn't started yet, and he's getting caught up on SHE-HULK, so that particular crisis has passed.

2) Different circumstances. Dan wasn't turning in the work--we would wait days and days and days for the script pass for books that were otherwise completely colored. And we'd speak to Dan, and he'd promise us a given number of pages by a given day and time, and then they wouldn't appear. This went on month after month after month--Dan was in a perfectionist loop in which he couldn't quite bring himself to send in the script until there was literally no other choice. But in this case, it's not that Stebe isn't producing pages, it's that he can't produce them fast enough to remain on schedule. But he's clearly working as hard as he can, and we're seeing a tangible result of that work. So it's not a mental block, it's a physical limitation, and you can't handle that in the same way.

On to post #2...

Tom B

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by Severance

Obvious question perhaps - but if they know this then why isn't it being solicited every six weeks!! It's not like Marvel didn't for the House of M series for the first few issues.

No, HOUSE OF M was solicited to ship two issues a month for its first four or five months--quite the opposite of what we're talking about here. And eventually, that caught up with us a little bit then too.

Tom B

[Jef]

Originally Posted by TattooedOni

Why basically say "Fans are just wrong and stupid, they don't know whats going on, and it doesn't make us any more money to have a fill in artist so forget that. Also it doesn't make us anyless money to ship when we feel like it so we are just going to do what we think is right.... for us to make money, also if anyone has any extra money they don't want it send it to MARVEL COMICS, until next time make mine money.... I mean Marvel." to our faces. Come one man try and make it a little easier to understand. How two faced do you have to be to say all the stuff about what sells and what doesn't, and then turn around and say what amounts to "Retailers are too concerned with the bottom line to see the big picture, and they all say the opposite when a book is released anyway".... I know TB is known for being "Cranky" but wow.

I think your inference skills are permanently set to hyperbole and misrepresentation.

[jmp]

Originally Posted by Tom Brevoort

No, HOUSE OF M was solicited to ship two issues a month for its first four or five months--quite the opposite of what we're talking about here. And eventually, that caught up with us a little bit then too.

Tom B

I really find this a strange post. Rather than address the reasonable objections that have been brought up, TB chooses to point out a mistake by a poster, a mistake that was already pointed out by another poster. All this post does is make zombies feel warm and fuzzy and leave some of us wondering about the integrity of Marvel editorial.

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by calliopes

So let me get this straight. The only reason Marvel releases monthly books is to help the retailers out. .

You're taking a broad point here and completely oversimplifying it to make your point. My point is that the only reason our industry runs on a thirty day cycle is because it's a holdover from the days when comic books were newsstand-oriented periodicals, and everybody's used to that. But if you look at the entire field over the last five years, you can see that starting to change. And, like with any change, not everybody is going to be equally comfortable with it.

We put out monthly comics because that's the way we've always largely done it. But the reason for why the comics are produced monthly in this format has kind of fallen away--and because of this fact, you've begun to see a metamorphosis in the way the industry operates, in my opinion.

Tom B

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by The Bry

I find it disturbing that when they have these huge events both Marvel and DC have to take these petty pot shots at one another to try and justify something that they're doing. TB just couldn't resist pullin that IC card or that DK2 card

Really, I wasn't intending either of those to be a shot at DC--but when you're talking about this kind of thing, it helps to have examples. I included a Marvel example as well (though I mangled the sequence on the ULTIMATE GALACTUS trilogy, talking about ULTIMATE EXTINCTION when I meant ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE--oops!) But INFINITE CRISIS is the most recent example of this kind of large-scale crossover, and it ran into scheduling problems of its own. And watching the reaction to how they attempted to deal with their problem, from the readers and the fans, definitely influenced how we've chosen to deal with ours. At the end of the day, when all is said and done, they may end up looking smarter than we will--you never know.

And I didn't think I was doing anything to DARK KNIGHT other than praising its quality--a quality that was more important to its long-term success as a perrennial collection than any short-term gain DC might have garnered by bringing Jim Aparo in to help out. In other words, in my opinion, they made the right move in 1986.

Tom B

[avatar]

Tom, get the hell out while you still can.

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by Bobo Da Hobo

:
I love Tom Breevort. If you disagree with him, you hate Marvel Comics, simple as that

Well, no, not really.

But if you spell my name wrong, then you clearly hate Marvel Comics.

Tom B

[avatar]

Originally Posted by jmp

I really find this a strange post. Rather than address the reasonable objections that have been brought up, TB chooses to point out a mistake by a poster, a mistake that was already pointed out by another poster. All this post does is make zombies feel warm and fuzzy and leave some of us wondering about the integrity of Marvel editorial.

So you'll rather him just ignore it like you ignored his other posts?

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by AnthonyL

he did point out Millar's chronic Illness (twice, even though Mark has said he's fine and it's not his illness that caused this, why bring it up, Tom??)

I don't want to dispute Mark, and I especially don't want to get into his personal matters in public, but while Steve has never had to wait on a script from Mark--he's always had something to draw on his desk--Mark's illness has absolutely played a role in getting us to this point. It's not an excuse, it's not casting blame his way--it's just the reality of the situation.

Tom B

[avatar]

Originally Posted by saiyanspider

Why is a fill in artist so bad, just don't hire a crappy one..

be honest, if George Perez, or Jim lee were annouced as fill in artists would there be a problem? Get someone good and no problem.

Why is waiting so bad? My day doesn't revolve around these books so waiting a few weeks for an issue being done by 2 people that really impress me isn't a problem. I'll rather see an all Steve book than another IC that ended with just weird looking stuff in it. Remeber Issue 7

[Tom Brevoort]

Originally Posted by TattooedOni

Why basically say "Fans are just wrong and stupid, they don't know whats going on, and it doesn't make us any more money to have a fill in artist so forget that. Also it doesn't make us anyless money to ship when we feel like it so we are just going to do what we think is right.... for us to make money, also if anyone has any extra money they don't want it send it to MARVEL COMICS, until next time make mine money.... I mean Marvel." to our faces. Come one man try and make it a little easier to understand. How two faced do you have to be to say all the stuff about what sells and what doesn't, and then turn around and say what amounts to "Retailers are too concerned with the bottom line to see the big picture, and they all say the opposite when a book is released anyway".... .

Well, I don't think that's quite what I did say, but I know that tempers run high.

Tom B

[jmp]

Originally Posted by avatar

Tom, get the hell out while you still can.

TB's presence here is admirable, and I applaud him for following up his comments. I wish he would address some of the tougher questions, like when did he actually know CW#4 was going to be delayed, and why this issue is delayed when the creators of the issue thought it was going to be released on time.

[daryldens]

Originally Posted by Tom Brevoort

We put out monthly comics because that's the way we've always largely done it. But the reason for why the comics are produced monthly in this format has kind of fallen away--and because of this fact, you've begun to see a metamorphosis in the way the industry operates, in my opinion.

Tom B

Good point. Please encourage Marvel to solicit accordingly going forward. Don't advertise and promote this as a monthly event and then we find out in August that there is no issue in August. This should have been anounced sooner, at least at the Civil War panels in the recent cons. I think its this more than the delays themselves that irk me when this happens on book after book.

I appreciate that Marvel is trying to make the best of bad situation here, but it's a bad situation of their own doing and not one that is a new phenomenon nor restricted to Marvel sadly.

[jmp]

Originally Posted by avatar

So you'll rather him just ignore it like you ignored his other posts?

At the time of my post, TB had only written one other post (and honestly, I missed his first post).

[avatar]

Originally Posted by Jerry Smith

Just a friendly reminder; this is a perfect time to check out stories from DC Comics. DC is generally good, and when I want to read the books, they're THERE. On the stands. There's something to be said for the one month wait between most issues of Infinite Crisis. The story was hot, I wanted to read it, and it was there. DC didn't offer every excuse under the sun why it was not, and the story isn't still dragging on today. At this rate, Civil War will drag into late 2009. This will give readers way too much time to delve into the story's numerous gigantic plot holes, something Marvel really can't afford.

LOL.

My favorite DC books have been delayed lately. Don't even try.

[Matt Linton]

Tom, I can see what you're saying about moving away from a monthly model for comics and I'm absolutely fine with that. However, that doesn't seem to apply to this situation. In this case the book was promoted as, and solicited as, a monthly comic. According to Millar and McNiven, it was understood early on (before it was solicited) that the book couldn't be produced on that schedule, and different options (like a fill-in) were discussed. What I don't understand is why the book couldn't have either just been solicited as a bi-monthly comic in the first place, or an announcement and solicitation couldn't have been delayed for a month or two to allow for more of a lead time. I think if either of those two things had been done you wouldn't be seeing anything like the reaction you're seeing now, and the quality of the finished product wouldn't have been compromised in any way. Also, you mentioned that delaying the book would have left some titles spinning their wheels for a a couple of months waiting for the start of Civil War. How is that worse than those books essentially being put on hiatus for two months now?