Spider-Man Action Figures

WWE Action Figures

home


Go Back   NEWSARAMA > FEATURES

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-16-2006, 06:40 PM   #1
MattBrady
 
TOM BREVOORT TALKS CIVIL WAR DELAYS

While Marvel Comics probably would have preferred the fandom was talking about the events of Civil War #4 this afternoon [like, what by the name of Odin’s beard is up with Thor?], fate hasn’t let that happen. Readers are talking about yesterday’s announced delays to the series and the event in general, and making their feeling known around the comic book Internet community, so Newsarama thought it was time to get more details on Marvel’s perspective on the matter.

We may still discuss these issues with Joe Quesada later this week, but today we sought the input of Civil War editor Tom Brevoort, in a sort of Civil War Room extra edition…

Newsarama: Tom, first all, first question has to be a simple "why"? What’s the reason for the delay? Mark Millar and Steve McNiven have suggested it was McNiven who needs time to catch up on the series, as well as suggesting a lack of lead-time going into the series was a factor. Is this accurate?

Tom Brevoort: It’s everything. I’m sure Mark would rather I not push this button, but I’ve got a writer with a chronic condition, and a penciler who’s never had to handle a story of this magnitude before, with this many unfamiliar characters and situations (not to mention this much spotlight pressure.) Plus, it’s just a hard book to do. And we did get something of a late start, though that might have been surmountable if this was an easier sort of project—the first page of issue #1 was sent to me by Steve on January 3rd.

“And not that anybody’s going to believe me when I say this, but these delays aren’t at all because we’re changing the story Armageddon 2001-style. There are some elements that are shifting around —hence the new 11th issue of Front Line — but that’s simply an issue of us having more elements on the canvas than we have space for in the remaining pages. But the ending that you will read will be the same ending we spent two days coming up with at our editorial retreat back towards the end of ’05, the one that Joss Whedon visited briefly. Sorry, conspiracy guys!

NRAMA: Can you speak about the decision not to seek a fill-in artist to try and get the series back-on track? Or at least delays minimalized, rather than the nearly two months Civil War #5 was pushed back?

TB: It’s no great surprise: fill-in artists suck. And as much as everybody complains about delays like this, and how they’re going to hurt sales and interest, the plain fact of the matter is that fill-in artists hurt it worse — they just do it more quietly, so people who aren’t in the industry and don’t see the sales numbers don’t really realize. For all that everybody’s up in arms about the delay, what readers really want when you scratch the surface and get down to the content of what they’re saying is for the project to be monthly by Mark and Steve. And when that becomes an impossibility, you have to ask yourself what’s going to cause more lasting damage, long-term?

I’m glad that people seem this upset because it shows that they’re really into the story, that they can’t wait until the next one comes out, but the reason that they feel that way is because Mark and Steve are producing an incredible book. And as soon as you bring in a replacement, you can immediately see the ardor of the fans start to cool.

And Civil War #5 is only two months late because delays are cumulative. It takes Steve something like six weeks to draw the book. But when you have to push back #4, that also means you’re pushing back the start date of #5, and so forth.

NRAMA: Although having no conclusive facts, anecdotal observation of the feedback Newsarama has seen from retailers in response to this news suggests a quality fill-in artist would have been accepted and perhaps even preferred given the scope of the event and the sales it's generating. Again, at least by retailers.

TB: Two things on this—and I say this realizing full well that the retailers are the ones who are being most negatively impacted by these delays, given that it’s their cash-flow that’s being loused up.

Firstly, I think the retailers who are saying this are wrong in the long-term, because right this second they’re most concerned about their short-term future, so they’re not worrying about the long term. But to throw out two examples, look at Ultimate Extinction and the follow-up Ultimate Galactus series. They all sold well enough at the end of the day, but as soon as we had to bring in substitute artists — quality artists in all cases — the momentum of the series immediately started to slow. That trilogy should have been a monster seller for the Ultimate line, but it wasn’t. And I think the reason that it wasn’t is that the integrity of the project was compromised as we tried to meet the schedule. And that’ll also effect the long-term sell-through of the Ultimate Galactus trade paperbacks.

Or you can look across town at the end of Infinite Crisis. You can almost chart where the bloom started to go off the rose at the moment when they had to pull Ivan Reis in to do a couple of pages in issue #3. In the short-term, people were willing to put up with it, but as each successive issue had to rely more and more heavily on substitute artists in greater and greater quantity, you could just see the dissatisfaction creep in — to the point where what seemed to be most-discussed about issue #7 was the art inconsistency. I’m not saying that DC was wrong to do this — I don’t know what kinds of financial pressures they might have been under, or publishing plan pressures they might have been under. But what I can tell for certain is what it did to the reading experience in the end. And having seen that, I choose to try to learn from it.

Secondly, I’m always leery of the legitimacy of the more fulminating members of the retail community has to say in these situations. I’m reminded of a very specific example that I witnessed a number of years ago that I always turn to when confronted on something like this. It was during the initial Marvel Knights run on Daredevil, when Kevin Smith and Joe Quesada were doing the book.

At that time, we had a system in place with Diamond wherein their sales reps would call assorted accounts, and we’d receive summaries every two weeks about their concerns and reactions to all of the Marvel product. At this time, I think it was Daredevil #6 was about six weeks late. And the week before it came out, the retailer feedback we got was, “This book is dying on the vine, my customers aren’t interested any more, Marvel should allow me to cut my orders by 40% without any penalty.” And then, two weeks later, a week after the issue shipped, we got the retailer feedback and it said, “This book flew off the stands, I can’t get any more, Marvel should have known that demand was going to outstrip supply and overprinted by 10% or 20%.” Which is to say, nobody knows anything absolutely.

NRAMA: So then how was this decision arrived upon? A purely internal decision, or did you seek input from outside?

TB: I don’t know whether specific retailer feedback was solicited — that’s more a question for [VP of Sales] David Gabriel, who maintains relations with the retail community. But this was primarily an internal decision, and not one we arrived at lightly. We studied this thing seven ways to Sunday, trying to work out what the ripple effect would be through the other books in the line, and the publishing plan as a whole. And in laying all of this out at one time, we’re trying to be as honest and upfront with the retailers and the fans as we can at this point.

It would have been easy for us to simply say that Civil War #4 was going to be a week late, and then two weeks late again a week later, and so on, but we wanted to give everybody as much ample warning as possible, especially retailers so that they could manage their cash flow.

NRAMA: Tom, we’ve talked to Joe Quesada about this general issue extensively in the past (and we’ll likely talk to him more at the end of this week), but let’s get the perspective of an editor whose day-to-day involves scheduling and keeping the trains running.

As you’ve no doubt seen by the reaction, this issue still greatly frustrates some fans, and many don’t understand how it continues to be a problem the publishers can’t overcome. So from your point-of-view, why can’t lateness be made an issue of the past? Why does it seem impossible for publishers to devise strategies to make sure high-profile projects are kept on schedule?

TB: The demands of the readership have changed as the marketplace has changed over the years. People like to point to the 70s or 80s as eras when you didn’t have these problems, but I think those people are forgetting a couple of things:

1.) Those were eras in which the majority of the comics sold were sold through mainstream markets, the “newsstand” distribution network, to a larger casual readership. The casual reader doesn’t care who’s working on a given title, doesn’t follow the creators — he just wants an exciting comic book story, well-told. In that market, what was on the cover was much more important than who was doing the insides. And those books were distributed on a returnable basis, so if a given issue didn’t connect with readers, it was pulped.

But in the current direct market, we sell on a non-returnable basis three months in advance to a readership that is avidly concerned with who is working on what, and your sales numbers are largely determined weeks if not months before the book even appears on the racks.

And 2.) in the 70s, when a book was running late, you’d get an unannounced reprint under a new cover — and nobody liked that. And in the 80s, when a book was running late, you’d get an irrelevant fill-in issue that often looked like it was produced by the guys in the mail room — and nobody liked that.

Plus, these days you simply have to factor in the eventual trade paperback or hardcover collections, as they’ve become a significant part of the revenue stream. As Bryan Hitch pointed out correctly, nobody today really remembers the four-month wait between Dark Knight Returns #2 and #3 — heck, most of the people reading this likely first read that story as a collected edition. And that’s because the work is strong, and has stood the test of time. It wasn’t compromised simply to meet the monthly schedule, and as a result, DC and the retailers will be able to sell it forever. I think that’s the model for the future.

The whole infrastructure of comic book retailing is changing, and I think what you’re starting to see is the beginning of the movement away from a monthly magazine publishing model over to something more akin to a book publishing model. This is very distressing to a lot of people who’ve grown up with the monthly model as a bedrock concept. But ever since we retreated almost wholly to the Direct Market in terms of the basic comic book product, there’s no compelling reason for the monthly release schedule outside of the need for retailers to have a predictable cash-flow that allows them to keep their doors open.

NRAMA: If nothing else, given history, why isn’t a project like Civil War kept in the can and off the schedule until a time when there is enough lead-time to absorb routine creative delays?

TB: Civil War is a crossover, and a crossover involves coordinating events across the entire line of books. As such, it’s far more timely in terms of the overall publishing plan than an ordinary story. If we decided to try to hold off on Civil War until, say, December, what that means for the rest of the line is that nobody on any of the books can do anything to substantively change the status quo in their individual titles. Talk about working in a straitjacket — not to mention comics that the readership will quickly grow bored with.

Also, waiting until everything is in the can isn’t a cure-all either. I continue to be asked, for example, often by people who are upset by it not being out yet, where Marvels: Eye Of The Camera is. And when I tell them that we’re waiting until we’ve got it all in hand before releasing it (which is easier to do in a case like this because the story isn’t tied to what’s going on in the present day Marvel Universe), all they want to know is what’s taking so long. Comic book readers as a whole aren’t really great with delayed gratification — I’m certainly not, so I can understand the impulse.

NRAMA: You released information about how this affects the schedule of mostly known tie-in books, but fans are also expecting a number of new series to launch out of Civil War that haven’t been solicited yet…

TB: All of those launches will be affected, but since those books haven’t been solicited yet, there isn’t the same kind of problem — we simply won’t solicit them until such a time as the appropriateCivil War material they spin out of is ready to see print.

NRAMA: Okay, but specifically, how - if at all - will this affect the schedule of say the Mighty Avengers, and the debut of a new New Avengers roster in issue #27, which would have been a December release??

TB: It means that in November we constructed the stand-alone Hawkeye/Scarlet Witch story that Brian [Bendis] is doing with Alex Maleev that we told people about a few weeks back. And it means that in December and January, there won’t be any issues of New Avengers solicited, although we will have the New Avengers: Illuminati limited series to take up some of the publishing slack. And New Avengers #27 will see print in February, after Civil War #7.

NRAMA: And how about a new Thor launch confirmed by Joe Quesada last week, and a series that may or may not be called Alpha Flight?

TB: All of the stuff that falls into this category — Mighty Avengers, Thor and so forth — will not be solicited until after Civil War wraps up, so February or March. Dan Slott’s Civil War spin-out, for example, looks like it’ll be in March at this point.

NRAMA: Any other examples you can name and how they'll be affected?

TB: It’s an unfortunate casualty, but we’re going to be celebrating the Fantastic Four’s 45th Anniversary a little bit late.

NRAMA: Obviously, in addition to the being upset that the series is being delayed the total number of weeks it is, there is also the underlying fear this is just the first delay. What can you say to readers to instill confidence at this point that the remaining issues will ship monthly after Civil War #5’s November release?

TB: I can tell you that for sure they won’t — which is what that whole list of dates and adjustments was about. We reworked the schedule for the entire back end of the crossover, and all of the affected titles, and gave those new dates to everybody all at once so that they could see how this will domino across everything. And hopefully, we’ve calculated correctly, and everything will go off like clockwork from this point on.

But I’d be lying if I said I could absolutely guarantee that — the writer, for example, has a chronic disease that could quite possibly take him off the board at any time for an undetermined amount of time. Or it might not — but it’s impossible to say for certain.

NRAMA: On a different note, you announced you hoped the addition of some new Civil War-related titles might help makes up for lost sales.

NRAMA: In that spirit, what details [creators, brief descriptions] can you share with readers about…

Civil War: War Crimes?

TB: This is a one-shot that focuses on the criminal element, on the underworld of the Marvel Universe during Civil War. We’ve heard from any number of readers asking how Civil War is affecting some of the major villains in the Marvel Universe, so we’re going to answer some of that here.

The principle character will be the Kingpin who, though still behind bars, continues to have his fingers in all sorts of unlawful pies. And like Lucky Luciano in World War II who was offered leniency on his sentence in exchange for using his influence to help the government police the shores of U-Boat troops who’d do deals with local mobsters in exchange for food and supplies, the Kingpin will be offered the opportunity to either help the Pro-Registration side, or to hinder them.

NRAMA: Captain America: Winter Soldier Special?

TB: Coming directly out of the Winter Soldier’s appearances in Captain America #23 and #24, this’ll follow Bucky Barnes through the landscape of Civil War, in which he’ll encounter old friends and new foes alike. It’ll also put him in position for the next major story arc in Captain America, “Death of the Dream”. Ed Brubaker will be writing this one.

NRAMA: Iron Man/Captain America Special?

TB: This special will chronicle the last face-to-face meeting between Iron Man and Captain America before the climax to Civil War, one last attempt on both their parts to reconcile their points of view and individual actions with one another, and possibly avert a catastrophe. It’ll also serve as a summation of their friendship over the years. Readers have been saying that they don’t quite understand why Tony Stark is doing what he’s doing, and this special (along with Iron Man #13-14) will give them greater insight.

NRAMA: And how does Moon Knight and Blade become involved?

TB: Both Moon Knight and Blade will be having adventures that are reflective of the Civil War landscape without being super-crucial to the core story of Civil War. In both cases, when we were conceiving Civil War, these books were deemed too new to derail by trying to incorporate them into the larger storyline. But now that we have more time, we have the opportunity to involve them like any other tie-in book. So you’ll see what happens when Moon Knight is asked to register, and you’ll see what Blade is doing while the Civil War is raging through the streets.

NRAMA: Finally, again, doing the lemon/lemonade thing. What can you tell readers about Civil War #4 and #5 so they can start talking about the story again, and less about its scheduling?

TB: Can’t tell them a thing more about #5 until #4 comes out, I’m afraid. But #4 still contains a death (with a big ol’ hole blown through somebody’s chest), a funeral, a fateful decision, and a team reborn. It’s also got Thor, obviously, and the lowdown on why he seems to be doing what he seems to be doing at the end of Civil War #3. And the rest of the big throwdown that started in issue #3.

It’s definitely going to have people talking when it finally, finally, finally hits the stands in a few weeks.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 06:57 PM   #2
TheWildCard
 
So why doesn't TB call out Millar and McNiven?

Double standard right there
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:00 PM   #3
Goldenboy
 
Hmmmmmmm.........

I did like the end bits though, about the new One Shots.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:02 PM   #4
KyleCowstar
 
I don't mind a delay. Almost all big events have them. Heck it even gives me more time to save up money for the issues.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:03 PM   #5
Lex
 
I think this just shows why it's a bad idea to tie the whole line into a crossover. If Civil War was just by itself, it wouldn't matter if it was late. But since half of Marvel's books closely tie into the story, it means that certain issues can't come out before others... and if one issue is late it throws the whole thing out of whack.

That's why I feel that crossovers shouldn't have a lot of tie-ins. Most books should remain with their individual, unique stories.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:04 PM   #6
Severance
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Brevoort
It takes Steve something like six weeks to draw the book.

Obvious question perhaps - but if they know this then why isn't it being solicited every six weeks!! It's not like Marvel didn't for the House of M series for the first few issues.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:12 PM   #7
Spacedog2k5
 
Comics, in general, have been on a bit of a wonky schedule the last 20 years, so what's all this hulaballoo, then? Sure, Civil War is going to be late, but then look at Seven Soldiers #1, which is solicited for October (far too many months after it was due to conclude!), yet all the pro-DC/anti-Marvel fanboys are still all over that! FEH!

I look at it this way: the series is good. It's worth waiting for. While it's on hold, I will have the time to have extra money in my pocket to do something perhaps non-comic related. Like maybe eat a nice dinner out. Or go see a movie -- oh wait, never mind, everyone on the internet hates movies.

Seriously, to all of you who have bellached and pointed fingers at Marvel over this, then walk away. Forget about CIvil War. But, don't come back later and say, "Aww, man, you know what, it was worth the wait.."
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:12 PM   #8
MacGuffin
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Brevoort
The whole infrastructure of comic book retailing is changing, and I think what you’re starting to see is the beginning of the movement away from a monthly magazine publishing model over to something more akin to a book publishing model. This is very distressing to a lot of people who’ve grown up with the monthly model as a bedrock concept. But ever since we retreated almost wholly to the Direct Market in terms of the basic comic book product, there’s no compelling reason for the monthly release schedule outside of the need for retailers to have a predictable cash-flow that allows them to keep their doors open.
Not to derail this topic, but I'm glad someone else said it because really, what's the point of "monthly" comics beyond the idea that it's always been that way? Should there always be an ongoing Amazing Spider-man and Superman and Batman, sure, but why does the majority of Marvel and DC's output need to be in that format beyond the fact that it was always done that way?

The easiest way to fix late books is to alter the system so that retailers aren't buying aren't buying product non-returnable sight unseeen based on months old information that publishers are guessing at because they have to pretend that they're hitting monthly deadlines. Either wait until the story is done and in the can to solicit or wait to solicit until there's a reasonable expectation that the book will be printed by the time it's supposed to ship (I'm looking at you All Star books). Our customers would prefer that Astonishing X-Men was monthly, but they know up front that they're dealing with a bi-monthly book and adjust accordingly.

Last edited by MacGuffin : 08-16-2006 at 07:43 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:13 PM   #9
calliopes
 
So let me get this straight. The only reason Marvel releases monthly books is to help the retailers out. Tom, you don't have to do me any favors. Cut your line down to books that will come out on time and schedule all the rest as trades that you can release when they are completely done. This will make sure my customers don't get pissed off when a book they were expecting in September shows up in December or later, since you said yourself that these are not firm dates. Also, why would anything depend on Millar at this point. Isn't the book done yet. If not you guys should get moving since your artist needs 6 weeks for each book.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:13 PM   #10
The Bry
 
I find it disturbing that when they have these huge events both Marvel and DC have to take these petty pot shots at one another to try and justify something that they're doing. TB just couldn't resist pullin that IC card or that DK2 card perhaps they should issue statement's like

"The Artist needed more time, sorry folks"

And let that be it, but that's just my two cents :P
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:15 PM   #11
jaredgood1
 
Gotta say, I agree about the problems with fill-in artists. They were fine years back when there was basically one style, but now that everyone has thier own look... Just look at the fill in pages for Land in Ult FF.

Dissapointed I have to wait longer, but there are still so many other great comics out now, I will still have plenty of books to pull.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:16 PM   #12
Ironhorse
 
Well, good explanation, but still it SUCKS AS HELL, I hate, as everyone else, delays, but this particular is annoying, at least, I gonna have more money for some other comics, just hope Annihilation won't have delays, if this happens, someone is gonna get serious injuries, . . . Marvel profits. Peace.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:17 PM   #13
Somebody
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severance
Obvious question perhaps - but if they know this then why isn't it being solicited every six weeks!! It's not like Marvel didn't for the House of M series for the first few issues.
Ummm... HoM was solicited as **FORTNIGHTLY** (then slipped to monthly when Coipel's lead time was used up).
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:23 PM   #14
djcoffman
 
Thumbs up

It's surprising that ONE little delay on ONE book, can mess up so much stuff for Marvel. I mean, they're going to celebrate the 45th anniversary of FF late because of this one little hold back?

You'd think with the TOP selling book in the country right now, Marvel would be on top of this more-- you'd think. Which leads me to believe there are likely OTHER things going on that the public just doesnt know about or doesn't need to know about but sooner or later will.

QUICK! Someone get Rich Johnston on the phone... he probably has the REAL STORY.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:27 PM   #15
Storminator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuffin
Not to derail this topic, but I'm glad someone else said it becaus.

I don't think that's what Matt said.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:35 PM   #16
Knowbrainer
 
Well, Marvel should be thankful that every single one of their tie-in issues don't correspond to what's going on in a current issue of CW. If that was the case, they'd either be royally screwed, or make sure the book ships when it's supposed to.

Oh, and doing retailers a favor? Please. I work in a comic shop and know that if it wasn't for the direct market, Marvel would still be bankrupt. Or possibly under the ownership of Time/Warner.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:36 PM   #17
Bobo Da Hobo
 
Double post, sorry

Last edited by Bobo Da Hobo : 08-16-2006 at 07:39 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:38 PM   #18
jedifish
 
I'd rather have the fill-in artist and the books on time. All Marvel fricking cares about is consistency in art in the trade sales, which is b.s. in my opinion. I couldn't care less about someone "waiting for the trade".
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:38 PM   #19
Bobo Da Hobo
 
: It’s no great surprise: fill-in artists suck. And as much as everybody complains about delays like this, and how they’re going to hurt sales and interest, the plain fact of the matter is that fill-in artists hurt it worse — they just do it more quietly, so people who aren’t in the industry and don’t see the sales numbers don’t really realize. For all that everybody’s up in arms about the delay, what readers really want when you scratch the surface and get down to the content of what they’re saying is for the project to be monthly by Mark and Steve. And when that becomes an impossibility, you have to ask yourself what’s going to cause more lasting damage, long-term?

I love Tom Breevort. If you disagree with him, you hate Marvel Comics, simple as that[/b]
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:39 PM   #20
AnthonyL
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWildCard
So why doesn't TB call out Millar and McNiven?

Double standard right there

Ummm. I think he did. Maybe not in the rude fashion that he did with Slott, but he did point out Millar's chronic Illness (twice, even though Mark has said he's fine and it's not his illness that caused this, why bring it up, Tom??)

So yeah, he kinda did, just not as mean as he did with Slott.

Anthony L
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:42 PM   #21
TattooedOni
 
Why basically say "Fans are just wrong and stupid, they don't know whats going on, and it doesn't make us any more money to have a fill in artist so forget that. Also it doesn't make us anyless money to ship when we feel like it so we are just going to do what we think is right.... for us to make money, also if anyone has any extra money they don't want it send it to MARVEL COMICS, until next time make mine money.... I mean Marvel." to our faces. Come one man try and make it a little easier to understand. How two faced do you have to be to say all the stuff about what sells and what doesn't, and then turn around and say what amounts to "Retailers are too concerned with the bottom line to see the big picture, and they all say the opposite when a book is released anyway".... I know TB is known for being "Cranky" but wow.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:43 PM   #22
lkgemini
 
TB - "And it means that in December and January, there won’t be any issues of New Avengers solicited, although we will have the New Avengers: Illuminati limited series to take up some of the publishing slack. And New Avengers #27 will see print in February, after Civil War #7."

And the other shoe drops...

So not only are Civil War and Frontline being delayed, along with all of the new series (M Avengers, Thor, etc) and Amazing and FF, but now you can add New Avengers to the list. I don't remember that being announced yesterday. (Speaking of yesterday, why was Civil War pulled from the website last week but only announced yesterday. And if New Avengers was facing delays and Marvel knew it, why did they not put it in the release.)

This why the fans are screaming and why a month and two month wait is such a huge deal. We all knew that more books than the ones listed would be affected, and Tom just admitted as much. I get the feeling that the New Avengers is just the start of several books which will be delayed because of Marvel's attempt to not pull an Infinite Crisis with fill-in artists.

And if Tom is soooooo opposed to "fill-ins" (artists, issues,) why are we going to be bombarded with "specials" over the next several months? Aren't these one-shots just fill-in stories with a cooler marketing spin? And is an "overflowing canvis" just a stupid way of saying we hired a bunch of last second writers and artists to sell stories during our Civil War gaps.

Shifting the idea that comics don't need to be shipped monthly is also pretty stupid. Would a company like to collect profit on products 6 times a year or 12 times. Saying monthly books is for retailer stability is complete and utter crap. It is to get our buts in the store at least once a month, and for DC and Marvel's bottom line to make a profit 12 times a year.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:44 PM   #23
TattooedOni
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredgood1
Gotta say, I agree about the problems with fill-in artists. They were fine years back when there was basically one style, but now that everyone has thier own look... Just look at the fill in pages for Land in Ult FF.

Dissapointed I have to wait longer, but there are still so many other great comics out now, I will still have plenty of books to pull.

Woa, I didn't even know Land had a fill in artist on Ult FF, I will go back and check it out. A fill in artist... HA! How hard is it to push freeze frame on your DVD and trace it Greg?
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:47 PM   #24
Snowspinner
 
Let's play a fun game of "count the lies!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBrady
I’m sure Mark would rather I not push this button, but I’ve got a writer with a chronic condition, and a penciler who’s never had to handle a story of this magnitude before,

Man, are there any creators in the Marvel stable Brevoort isn't going to blame?

Quote:
Plus, it’s just a hard book to do. And we did get something of a late start, though that might have been surmountable if this was an easier sort of project—the first page of issue #1 was sent to me by Steve on January 3rd.

Months before you solicited issue #1. So why did you solicit so early if you were behind at the start? Was it that important to block IC #7 from taking the top spot?


Quote:
For all that everybody’s up in arms about the delay, what readers really want when you scratch the surface and get down to the content of what they’re saying is for the project to be monthly by Mark and Steve. And when that becomes an impossibility, you have to ask yourself what’s going to cause more lasting damage, long-term?

Ah, but when did that become an impossibility? Because by the sound of it, if you had page 1 in January, you should have had a pretty good idea of McNiven's schedule - you had something less than four issues in the can in May. That didn't set off any warning bells?

Quote:
And Civil War #5 is only two months late because delays are cumulative. It takes Steve something like six weeks to draw the book. But when you have to push back #4, that also means you’re pushing back the start date of #5, and so forth.

Ummm... if it takes Steve six weeks to draw the book, and he started issue 1 on January 3rd, he should be about a third of the way through issue six right now. If we don't have issue 4 yet, we're looking at over eight weeks per issue - that is to say, an issue every two months. Again, if you knew your artist was that slow - which you should have by the time you solicited, if not by May - why did you solicit?

Quote:
Firstly, I think the retailers who are saying this are wrong in the long-term, because right this second they’re most concerned about their short-term future, so they’re not worrying about the long term.

Yeah, those selfish retailers who were expecting a cash cow to come out this week, just aren't thinking about the long term.

Quote:
But to throw out two examples, look at Ultimate Extinction and the follow-up Ultimate Galactus series. They all sold well enough at the end of the day, but as soon as we had to bring in substitute artists — quality artists in all cases — the momentum of the series immediately started to slow. That trilogy should have been a monster seller for the Ultimate line, but it wasn’t. And I think the reason that it wasn’t is that the integrity of the project was compromised as we tried to meet the schedule. And that’ll also effect the long-term sell-through of the Ultimate Galactus trade paperbacks.

Yeah. It certainly had nothing to do with the SIX MONTH DELAY on Ultimate Secret. (Hey, wait a minute, who was the artist on Ultimate Secret again?)

Quote:
Or you can look across town at the end of Infinite Crisis. You can almost chart where the bloom started to go off the rose at the moment when they had to pull Ivan Reis in to do a couple of pages in issue #3.

Here's some fun data for you. Estimated sales on all 7 issues of IC:

1: 249,100
2: 207,600
3: 188,900
4: 182,600
5: 201,800
6: 194,400
7: 198,400

I'm not seeing the wheels coming off at issue 3 here...

Quote:
“This book flew off the stands, I can’t get any more, Marvel should have known that demand was going to outstrip supply and overprinted by 10% or 20%.” Which is to say, nobody knows anything absolutely.

Nonsense - the retailers know one thing very specifically. Their top selling book that should have moved 250,000 units didn't come out. How much money do you figure just flew out of their pockets this month?

Quote:
It would have been easy for us to simply say that Civil War #4 was going to be a week late, and then two weeks late again a week later, and so on, but we wanted to give everybody as much ample warning as possible, especially retailers so that they could manage their cash flow.

As much warning as possible? Announcing the delay the day before the book was supposed to ship is as much warning as possible? What, a month ago when you looked and saw that you didn't have the art for issue #4, that wasn't a good time to warn retailers to manage their cash flow?

Quote:
But in the current direct market, we sell on a non-returnable basis three months in advance to a readership that is avidly concerned with who is working on what, and your sales numbers are largely determined weeks if not months before the book even appears on the racks.

You say this like it's a good thing.


Quote:
Plus, these days you simply have to factor in the eventual trade paperback or hardcover collections, as they’ve become a significant part of the revenue stream.

Though still not the main part. And a lot of that revenue stream goes to bookstores, not the retailers who are eating this one.

Quote:
Civil War is a crossover, and a crossover involves coordinating events across the entire line of books. As such, it’s far more timely in terms of the overall publishing plan than an ordinary story. If we decided to try to hold off on Civil War until, say, December, what that means for the rest of the line is that nobody on any of the books can do anything to substantively change the status quo in their individual titles. Talk about working in a straitjacket — not to mention comics that the readership will quickly grow bored with.

What, you're telling me Straczynski, Bendis, Brubaker, and some of the best writers in comics couldn't have come up with stuff to do for six months? Hell, I was there in Charlotte when Straczynski publicly complained that he wasn't being allowed to do stuff on Fantastic Four because Civil War was taking the book away from him. In fact, he said he threatened to drop the title if you didn't give him the book back. I'm guessing he would have been perfectly content to see Civil War stay away for another six months.

Quote:
TB: It means that in November we constructed the stand-alone Hawkeye/Scarlet Witch story that Brian [Bendis] is doing with Alex Maleev that we told people about a few weeks back.

So... again... you knew about the Civil War delay enough to solicit a Bendis/Maleev standalone to fill in, but only got around to warning retailers yesterday?


Quote:
It’s an unfortunate casualty, but we’re going to be celebrating the Fantastic Four’s 45th Anniversary a little bit late.

Gee, or you could have done that in the six months you should have delayed Civil War.

Quote:
On a different note, you announced you hoped the addition of some new Civil War-related titles might help makes up for lost sales.

Again, if you had time to plan these new one-shots, I imagine you could have announced the delays sooner and made retailer financial planning easier, no?

So on the whole... way to lie through your teet, Brevoort.

I repeat my claim from the last thread - Marvel knew full well that this would happen with the book, and decided to launch it prematurely to take the wind out of DC's sails, with knowingly fraudulent claims about the release schedule.

Last edited by Snowspinner : 08-16-2006 at 07:55 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2006, 07:47 PM   #25
artiepants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkgemini
And the other shoe drops...

So not only are Civil War and Frontline being delayed, along with all of the new series (M Avengers, Thor, etc) and Amazing and FF, but now you can add New Avengers to the list. I don't remember that being announced yesterday. (Speaking of yesterday, why was Civil War pulled from the website last week but only announced yesterday. And if New Avengers was facing delays and Marvel knew it, why did they not put it in the release.)

This why the fans are screaming and why a month and two month wait is such a huge deal. We all knew that more books than the ones listed would be affected, and Tom just admitted as much. I get the feeling that the New Avengers is just the start of several books which will be delayed because of Marvel's attempt to not pull an Infinite Crisis with fill-in artists.
well, since New Avengers hasn't been solicited, it's not really late, right... plus it'll let Yu get a few extra issue's in the can and has come out more than monthly up to Nov. 06, bet they put it out on an accelerated schedule.

Plus the delay will allow other projects to get more in the can, like Cho on Mighty Avengers...
 
 
   

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© Imaginova Corp. All rights reserved.

imaginova LiveScience space.com aviation.com newsarama spacenews.com Adastra starrynight.com Orion Telescopes