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04-08-2005, 11:43 AM
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#1 |
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BILL WILLINGHAM ON DAY OF VENGEANCE
 With the release of Countdown to Infinite Crisis some of DC’s upcoming spinoff miniseries became a little clearer. As Greg Rucka explained for example, The OMAC Project is the direct continuation of the Countdown storyline, flowing the repercussions of the murder of a hero and the revelation of the existence of a secret cabal seeking to control all superhumans. Villains United is, by and large, what its title says – the worst of the worst of the DCU’s villains joining forces to exploit the weaknesses in the superhero community. Likewise, The Rann-Thanagar War is straightforward in its scope.But what about Day of Vengeance? As originally talked up by Dan Didio, Executive Editor of the DCU as being the miniseries that redefined magic in the world of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, the six-issue miniseries which starts this month was still somewhat…out there. Obviously, from its covers, the Spectre is looking to do some serious damage, but what’s this about Eclipso joining with him, and a new team, The Shadowpact, joining forces to stop them? We sat down with the writer of the miniseries, Bill Willingham for more about the story, the behind the scenes, and how a talking, drunk monkey fits into it all. Spoiler warning: the first few pages of Day of Vengeance deal with the identity of the new Eclipso. It’s a fairly substantial surprise, so, if you want to wait until you have the whole issue in your hands to read it, you may want to skip this article.  Newsarama: First off, how did you land the gig? Were you patrolling around DC, letting the word be known that you were looking for more mainstream work, or did they come to you with the idea? Bill Willingham: Dan Didio and Joey Cavaleri called me and asked if I wanted to do a project, and then described roughly, what the six issue miniseries needed to be, and added that they needed my answer yesterday. So it was just a cold, out of the blue call. Although, it had a little preliminary basis in that I had started to do a magical series for Vertigo which was going to be the catch-all book for all their magically-based characters that didn’t have a home fo their own. We tried several versions of that, and it just didn’t work out, so we finaly agreed to drop the idea. But – everything they didn’t like about my ideas at Vertigfo were the things that they liked for the DCU. Vertigo didn’t want a “super hero team,” didn’t want them hanging out in a clubhouse, and the like. In asking me if I wanted to do this, Dan and Joey asked if I didn’t have something in the works with a team of magic people hanging out in a clubhouse. I told them yes, but Vertigo didn’t like it, and they told me they loved it. So that all got put into it – in a fashion. NRAMA: From there, was it along the lines of them liking your concept, and giving you a list of characters and ideas to play with, or was it more directed than that? BW: It was pretty specific, more along the lines of “Here’s how you start out, here are a few things you have to hit along the way, and here’s how it has to end up. Fill in the middle.” NRAMA: You were okay with that? It seems somewhat top-down storytelling…  BW: Well, considering that by the time they got a hold of me, they wanted it immediately, it was kind of helpful in that I really didn’t have time to worry about where to go with things on my own. This way, I knew the map, and just had to decide how to get there. NRAMA: That said, where does this effectively spin out of? Countdown showed that there’s a major conflict going on in the magical realms of the DCU, and the newly freed Spectre is playing a key role in all of it…and a new, female Eclipso is invovled as well... BW: Yeah, I don’t think we’re spoiling anything by revealing that the Spectre is now without a human host, and is involved in this – the covers do a good job of showing that. And I guess DC put up the preview pages of the first issue, so that means that the identity of the new Eclipso isn’t a mystery anymore… NRAMA: So, with all of that, how do things start rolling? BW: Eclipso and Spectre team up – we know that much. Since the new Eclipso is a female now, she basically seduces the Spectre, and convinces him that if he really wanted to stop evil in the world, he needs to destroy magic. Magic is, basically, breaking the laws of nature – and evil people break the laws. Quit going after individual perpetrators, and just wipe out evil all at once. NRAMA: And the Spectre buys the argument? An Eclipso with boobs is enough to convince him of that?  BW: Well, consider that the Spectre is a little screwed up right because he’s coming off a weird trip with a human host, and is now without a human host for the first time in a long while. Without that guidance, that conscience, he’s a little wigged out, so that when someone makes what may or may not be a good argument about destroying a whole lot of evil, he falls for it.The whole idea is that, in the DCU, the Spectre is the one character you don’t want coming after you. At some point in the story, someone actually lays it all out, and says, “If the Spectre wants you dead, you’re dead.” If you know he’s gunning for you, the absolute best you can do is get your affairs in order, and that’s it. NRAMA: He’s very Old Testament in his ways… BW: He is. What happens in the series is that a bunch of people decide to get their affairs in order. We’ve created a pan-dimensional bar where all of the magic characters hang out – the “clubhouse” that Vertigo didn’t like and that the DCU does. Now, I don’t know what it means that it’s a bar in the DCU, which some could see as pretty Vertigo-esque, but I guess that’s neither here nor there. We have this old character called Nightmaster [first appearance, Showcase #82, 1969], who used to run this bookstore called The Oblivion a long time ago. I’ve turned the bookstore into a bar, which is a bit more interesting as setting, and what we then have is a bunch of people going there for one last drink. They’ve heard that the Spectre is taking out all magic-based entities and magic-using characters and figure they’re all doomed, so why not spend their last hours among friends, and maybe even get a good drunk on? NRAMA: How did they all learn that the Spectre is coming? BW: It’s not like there’s a newsletter, but I think they all began to suspect something was amiss when the Spectre started destroying stuff. I don’t want to give away too much, but in any mass destruction, there are a few folks who get away because they’re too much of small fry for the “destroyer” to worry about right now. As a matter of fact, the opening scene at the bar pans through conversations of various people saying things like, “Oh yeah, he showed up here and did this,” “He came and wiped out this…”  So, by the end of the first issue, everyone knows that the Spectre is gunning for everyone and everything magic.NRAMA: So tell us about Jean Loring becoming the new Eclipso…was that something that was given to you as an element to work into the story? BW: Yes – their start for the story was, in fact, “Jean Loring becomes the new Eclipso and convinces the Spectre to wipe out magic. Go.” I saluted smartly and said, “You got it.” But seriously – it was an intriguing thing. It was a fun conundrum to be given, and then tasked with making it all work. I loved doing that conversation in the start, by the way – you can presume that this little shard in her cell is talking to her, but you can only hear Jean’s side of the conversation… NRAMA: In your view of things, is she all “there” mentally, after everything in Identity Crisis? BW: I don’t think we’re deciding it definitively, but in my opinion – no, I think she’s a little whacked out. Plus, at the same time, I don’t think you can be Eclipso and be all there, mentally either. So it’s kind of a perfect marriage in that right.  I think it’s pretty revelatory that when the shard went looking for a new host this time, it went to a house of loonies. It’s not going to the local Mensa offices. It’s obviously trolling for vulnerable host material since, judging by the conversation with Jean, it just can’t leap onto someone, it has to convince them to go along willingly. NRAMA: Okay – so Eclipso and the Spectre – two pretty classic magical characters from DC’s history are in the story. But then, one of the characters that’s been mentioned since the solicits of issue #1 came out that’s raised eyebrows – the Ragman? This is the version by Keith Giffen and Robert Loren Fleming that ties in mystical elements to the character, obviously, but still…Ragman? You can probably save face here by saying it was DC’s idea to put him in there, not yours… BW: Everyone working in comics has their list of what characters they would love to do if they ever got the chance, and mine have never been the Superman/Batman type, A-list characters. They’re pretty well established. You’re not going to easily add new stuff to those mythos. Maybe, if you take over Superman, you can add that he’s always liked vanilla pudding. We’ve never explored that before, but yeah, he’s had a taste for it, and all that. See? You’ve expanded the character of Superman. NRAMA: Batman and Superman’s taste in pudding isn’t for you? BW: Nah – I’ve always looked at the characters that have never been handled in a way that their full potential has been explored. Ragman is a good example. Unfortunately for me, Blue Beetle was another one of those characters, because I felt I know how to handle him well, but it’s a little too late for that. So – Ragman’s on my list, as is Blue Devil and a few others. So part of it was that the Spectre was doing all this stuff, and now, we need some guys to go after him. DC told me to use this team concept that I was thinking of for the Vertigo series that didn’t go, so I was able to use all these also-rans, and second and third tier characters, and on their first mission, they get to take on the Spectre.  It’s suicide for them, but after a few drinks at the bar, their courage is bolstered, and they figure that they can go take on the big guy. It’s possibly the first ever superhero team to be formed out of a bout of drunken desperation. NRAMA: Something that can be said to be a first in comics in regards to the motivation of the characters, but never for the motivation of creators in comics, though… BW: (laughs) That’s very true. Many grand things in comics have started out of drunken desperation. So – I always thought Ragman was a fun character to explore. NRAMA: So he’s the team’s leader? BW: Not exactly. Unfortunately, if you read some of the first blurbs about the miniseries, it kind of came across as Ragman: Day of Vengeance, which isn’t what it’s about at all. That was just because we have six issues, and I have six characters on this “team,” so I wanted each issue to be from the point of view of one of the characters, and Ragman is the first up. Enchantress is up for #2, and so on. But it’s definitely a team of heroes foolishly taking on the Spectre, and having very little chance of winning, except that they’ve got moxie and are clever. So we’ll see what happens. NRAMA: Speaking of your character, the solicitation for #3 reveals it, and you mentioned it at WizardWorld LA – you’re bringing back Detective Chimp, as a team member. Again, one of your choices? BW: No, it wasn’t. I’d love to take credit for that, but that came on the second phone call with Dan asking if there was any way I could fit Detective Chimp in there. NRAMA: At any point during that call did you think it was a prank, or that maybe Dan forgot to take the right pills that morning? BW: No way. I gotta tell you it was a good thing that he was a continent away and talking to me over a phone line, or else he would’ve gotten a hug. And I’m not a hugging guy. We don’t do hugs where I come from, but it was the perfect thing for him to ask. I think I nearly screamed into the phone that I would love to get Detective Chimp into the story. As I said at the panel, what can’t be improved by having a talking monkey in it? So, if this was all Dan's idea of a dare or seeing if I'd fall for it, it's all his fault now - he's got a comic book with a talking monkey in it, dammit. NRAMA: So where has Detective Chimp been and what has he been up to all these years? BW: That was all mine to figure out – all Dan asked was if I could fit him in there. So I started looking at what is interesting about Detective Chimp – he’s a talking monkey, so that is in and of itself kind of interesting, but also, he hasn’t been seen since the ‘50s, so where’s he been? My simple answer and the one that ended up working is that he’s been in this bar, drinking since the ‘50s. He’s been on a single drunk for 50 years. NRAMA: A 50-year drunk? BW: Yup. He’s not the cute and vivacious, “I’m a chimp and I solve crimes!” from those more innocent times, it’s more of a “Yeah, I opened my detective agency, got a lot of work because it was cool to hire a chimpanzee, but as a non-human with no legal standing, I couldn’t enforce any laws, so I couldn’t make any of my clients pay, so I went bankrupt almost immediately.” What do you do when you go bankrupt, and they turn off all of your utilities, and kick you out of your office and home? You go have a drink. 50 years later, he’s still there, and chimes in when everyone, with all of their alcoholic courage says, “Let’s go kick the Spectre’s ass!” So now, this cranky little monkey that was in this back booth in The Oblivion joins in. NRAMA: So to add to your earlier comment, the improvement to something coming form the addition of a talking monkey is increased when he’s old, cranky, and drunk?  BW: Exactly. There was that story recently about the people that went to visit their old pet monkey, and just got really, really hurt. Chimpanzees are mean, mean critters, and so I figured we should heighten the idea that when they get older, they get mean. To make it worse, this one is suffering the hangover from a 50-year drunk, so this is one cranky little fella. The thing is, initially, he was only going to be comedy relief, sort of the character that lightens the mood when they get into a grim situation, but it turns out that since his ability is to talk to animals, that fits in pretty prominently in this story, so it was a nice little addition, even if we couldn’t wring hilarity out of him. NRAMA: So the team dynamic with a cranky, hungover, talking monkey is… BW: What you’d expect. Also, when we meet Blue Devil, he’s been the bouncer at The Oblivion for a while, and he hates the chimp. His bar tab was tens of years long when Nightmaster took over the bar, and he was already a fixture there, so they can’t throw him out, but Blue Devil has hated the little sucker for years. So year – there are a lot of interesting character dynamics in there… NRAMA: Back to the larger story then – looking at the solicitation for issue #3, it says The Shadowpact finally gets their act together to go after the Spectre. So, can it be assumed that, until up until then, the Spectre is doing what he’s doing and is having some success? BW: Well, let’s go back to what I said earlier – the Spectre is the most powerful creature in the DC Universe. If he wants to do something, he pretty much gets to do it. So, there’s lots of stuff that’s going to happen. Some of the early discussion about this talked about how each of these miniseries redefines one section of the DC Universe, and this is the one that redefines how magic works. Part of redefining that is that the Spectre wrecks it. By virtue of his actions, he’s changing the nature of magic in the DCU. So yeah, for a good deal of time, he’s succeeding in what he’s setting out to do. NRAMA: By acting unopposed? What about the larger, more powerful magical characters of the DCU? Where are they in all of this? BW: That’s addressed early on. At the bar full of these second string characters has has-beens, someone says, “Look, this is not our problem. This is what guys like Dr. Fate, the Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, Madame Xanadu and the big guns handle. They’re on the job, so let them deal with it.” That’s actually when Detective Chimp first chimes in, because he knows that unfortunately, they aren’t on the job. Through flashbacks in the second issue, we see how Spectre took those guys off the playing field. Which is just a wonderful set up for a story – you’ve got some second stringers who are going up against something they don’t have a hope in hell of defeating, and figure out how at least to give them a shot. Our boys are the ones left to do it, because no one else is available. It’s a fun story to tell. |
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04-08-2005, 11:55 AM
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#2 |
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AWESOME.....
Looking forward to this. |
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04-08-2005, 11:57 AM
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#3 |
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I love all things Spectre (even Hal Jordan as Spectre), so I will be getting this. BUT -- how in the heck is the wrath of God seduced by a chick - or anything for that matter? and since said chick is also magic based, shouldn't he wipe her out first? I hope this makes sense. Also, kudos to including Ragman - he's cool (p.s. - please don't include him so he can die!).
b. |
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04-08-2005, 12:04 PM
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#4 | |
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And c'mon - how often does a woman - any woman - show any interest in the Spectre at all, aside from screaming, and not in the good way? MattB |
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04-08-2005, 12:12 PM
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#5 |
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I have to admit, of all the Countdown minis, this is the one I was least looking forward to--Until I found out that Ragman will be in it.
I just think it's funny that while I have reservations about Jean Loring being the new Eclipso, ressurecting Detective Chimp seems like nothing but a good idea to me.  |
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04-08-2005, 12:13 PM
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#6 |
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I'm sure there are many goth chicks who would love to date a pale, muscular guy who wears a big cape and talks endlessly about death. All he needs are some tattoos and some Dr. Martins, and he'd have to beat the ladies off with a stick!
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04-08-2005, 12:13 PM
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#7 |
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all these infinite crisis tie ins look really good. But with the prices of books these days make it kind of silly to go out and buy them all. So this book won't make my cut. I think i'm gonna stick with OMAC and Villians United.Hopefully i wont miss too much...
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04-08-2005, 12:16 PM
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#8 | |
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Re: BILL WILLINGHAM ON DAY OF VENGEANCE
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Wait, so even THIS guy is going cynical, grim and gritty? lol  Okay, this is just getting hilarious now!  |
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04-08-2005, 12:19 PM
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#9 | |
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Doubt it. I think since ID Crisis DC has a destination and result it's trying to get to and a lot of little plot holes (like why Jean Loring conveniently carries flamethrowers with her) are going to have to get skimmed over. Given the size of the crossover it's understandable. |
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04-08-2005, 12:20 PM
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#10 | |
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Same kind of woman who'd be interested in Ernest Borgnine I suppose...... |
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04-08-2005, 12:20 PM
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#11 |
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the new Eclypso (or is that Eclypsa?)
Only one thing to say: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously S P O I L E R S P A C E (for those who didn't look at the preview pages) Jean Loring? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA |
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04-08-2005, 12:25 PM
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#12 | |
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MattB |
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04-08-2005, 12:37 PM
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#13 | |
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Re: Re: BILL WILLINGHAM ON DAY OF VENGEANCE
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OK. Chimps are not monkeys. They are apes. How can you typically tell the difference? Monkeys have tails. Apes don't. Hey. Just cuz we're comic book geeks doesn't mean we can't be intelligent comic book geeks, right? |
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04-08-2005, 12:41 PM
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#14 |
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I'm pretty psyched about this. I've never gotten into the secondary magic characters in the DCU, although I've picked up books like the Trenchcoat Brigade and the Conjurers to try and get interested. I know they've dabbled with the concept before.
So this far in we know about Ragman, Blue Devil, Enchantress, and Detective Chimp right? Sounds good enough to me. I'm a little concerned about all the writers for the associated limiteds being handed their plot and being told to fill it in, but I know that method can work. I believe that is what Andy Diggle got for Adam Strange, and look how excellent that book has been. |
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04-08-2005, 12:43 PM
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#15 |
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Definitely gonna give DoV a read. Sounds like it's gonna be a wild ride. And I'd love to see Ralph and Ray's reactions when they see Eclipso for the first time!
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04-08-2005, 12:47 PM
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#16 |
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Weird, but this sound.....cool?
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04-08-2005, 12:49 PM
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#17 | |
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Look at the last Eclipso, Alex Montez, in JSA. At first he was out for vengeance for Eclipso murdering his cousin, but then he thought he could control the black diamond and became Eclipso. Eventually, his pride got the best of him and he was possessed, leading Alex to commit suicide in "Black Reign". So, I could see Eclipso wanting to take advantage of Jean Loring. She's obviously mentally unstable and feels that she's been wronged by her ex-husband as well as the superhero community at large. Again, it's crazy enough that it just might work.  |
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04-08-2005, 12:50 PM
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#18 |
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I wasn't very excited about any of the Countdown/Infinite Crisis mini series... until I found out who would be in Day of Judgement.
Ragman. Blue Devil. Enchantress. Nightmaster. Detective Chimp. It's like Willingham reached into my brain and found exactly what would make me buy this book. I mean, just having Ragman and Blue Devil in it is enough to make me excited... but he threw in Detective Chimp too! Yay! Plus, I see that Captain Marvel is going to appear. Bonus! All the Countdown minis seem to have a small fun element that makes me interested in them. And after reading this, Day of Judgement's fun factor just increased 100 times! (Oh and is there a 6th member of the Shadowpack that we haven't been told about yet?) |
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04-08-2005, 12:51 PM
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#19 |
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I am SOOOOOO excited about this mini. I think I'm more excited for Day of Vengeance than any of the minis.
I'm pretty sure I already knew the spoiler, but I didn't read this article just in case. Wish I could, because I know it would just get me more juiced about Day of Vengeance. I love the Magic characters, and seeing them fleshed out and developed more is going to be the most exciting thing about the book. I hope some of them can get an ongoing out of the deal. And if anyone can write about "magic" characters, it's Bill!! Love Fables! |
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04-08-2005, 12:55 PM
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#20 | |
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Plus, I think he should enter the DCU as the next Eclipso!   |
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04-08-2005, 12:57 PM
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#21 | |
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"Why the hell does he have a big purple spot on his... OHHHH!! THAT'S HILARIOUS!!" Good job Coycle. |
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04-08-2005, 12:58 PM
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#22 | |
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And let's face it, Captain Marvel needs to be distanced as far from Superman as possible, imo. Unless DC wants to keep him in his current role of Superman, Jr. |
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04-08-2005, 12:58 PM
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#23 |
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Like the Coyote, of all the spin-offs from Countdown, this was the one l least expected to pick up. But then I read that BLUE DEVIL is going to be at the forefront.
Let me pause a moment to let that sink in. BLUE FREAKIN' DEVIL?!?!!? I am so stoked for this series now I don't even have words! I loved Bill Willingham's Elementals back in the day and I can't WAIT to read this now. Hopefully, Bill will restore BD to something closer to his original look and personality. If so, he'll have a fan for life! Lessee, Dead Blue Beetle (another fave of mine) = Restored Blue Devil and resurrected Guy Gardner as GL?! I'll miss Ted, but I'll take that trade! I'm giggling like a schoolgirl. BLUE DEVIL'S BACK BABY! |
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04-08-2005, 12:58 PM
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#24 |
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Wow.
When I first read the solits for the Crisis minis Day of Vengance was last on my list for me to buy. After reading the interview and finally seeing the preview pages this is on my must read list. I cant wait |
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04-08-2005, 12:58 PM
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#25 |
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I had basically no interest in any of these "event" spin-offs, but reading Willingham's interview has me almost convinced to check this out. He brings a refreshing spin to things that makes the whole thing sound like a fun ride.
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