THE CHEAPER COMICS MANIFESTO

Superman · 02-02-2005, 05:10 PM

THE CHEAPER COMICS MANIFESTO : The case for printing monthly comics on good ol' newsprint so they can be priced as close to 99¢ as possible.

THE CONS:

(Let’s get them out of the way, shall we?)

• Art doesn’t look as good on newsprint as it does on higher-quality paper.

• Newsprint doesn’t age as well as higher-quality, acid-free paper does.

THE COUNTER-ARGUMENTS:

(The Pros for the Cons.)

• Yes, the art wouldn't look its best. But it will in the trade paperback.

It’s a trade-off (pun intended). People who enjoy the serialized nature of comics could get their monthly fix on the cheap, and the material more deserving of a more permanent format (by virtue of sales or publisher confidence) would get it in the form of trade paperbacks. More on this later.

• Yes, the books would be less durable. And thus, perhaps more collectible.

As comics have become more durable, so has the collector's market dwindled. Of course, there are a variety of reasons for the decline. But one of them is, well, there’s plenty of supply to meet the demand. If more Modern Age comics yellowed, brittled and just plain disintegrated, in time there would be fewer of them in collectible condition. Therefore, demand would be more likely to exceed supply, which would go a long way toward revitalizing the collector's market.

THE ABSOLUTE PROS:

(There are many.)

• If comics costed less (yes, costed is a word), everyone could buy more.

• If comics costed less, the casual reader would be more likely to pick up a few.

The casual reader has $10. What are they going to buy? Three comics at today’s prices (about 30 minutes of reading)? Or a mass market paperback (about 300 minutes of reading)?

• If comics costed less, kids might actually be able to afford them.

• If comics costed less, publishers wouldn’t have to spend as much money to put a one on the shelf.

Therefore, they might be more willing to take chances on new material.

• If comics costed less, readers might be more willing to take chances on new material.

• Printing comics on newsprint would better differentiate them from trade paperbacks.

Therefore, each would have competitive advantages over the other, fueling sales for both. The monthlies would be cheaper and more immediate for those who enjoy their monthly fix of truly serialized entertainment. While the trades would be printed to last on high-quality paper for those who enjoy complete stories and the permanence of the format.

And lastly...

• Newsprint is readably recyclable.

• Newsprint just smells like comics should. Like ink and paper. Not chemicals. (Or sometimes tortillas.)

CHEAPER COMICS! LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN!

KSChris · 02-02-2005, 05:18 PM

No. As expensive as they may be, going back to newsprint would be a HUUGE step back.. I would much rather pay $3 for a comic which is a good read and is aesthetically pleasing.. than 99 cents for a newspaper with crappy quality.

Lobok · 02-02-2005, 05:18 PM

I think better paper matters to most of the comic book audience, so none of the companies would want to go back to the newsprint first.

TroyCarter · 02-02-2005, 05:19 PM

FU! I like to rub my glossy expensive comics all over my body.

punk_love · 02-02-2005, 05:26 PM

Has it been scientifically proven that reverting to "newsprint" paper will cause comics to be reduced in price, especially to less than half of what they cost now?

Every week someone seems to say this, as if it were A) actually true that simply changing the paperstock would mean comics could be lowered by over 50% of current cover prices and still be a profitable venture or, B) even if a company did change to newsprint, that they actually WOULD reduce prices and not continue to soak every cent they can.

Blind Assassin · 02-02-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
THE ABSOLUTE PROS:

(There are many.)

• If comics costed less (yes, costed is a word), everyone could buy more.

How many of the Beckett Comics line titles do you read (first issues only 99 cents, each successive issue 1.99) and they aren't on cheap newsprint paper, either.

How many of Alias Comics (debuting in April) have you ordered (a good many of their initial offerings are only 75 cents for the first issues, and they are talking to have other lower priced issues as well)..?

(forgive me for mentioning beckett comics again, but this is the 4 time in two months that someone has mentioned the cost of comics. I hope noone thinks I am 'spamming' or 'trolling' by my constantly mentioning Beckett books, but I think in this case (and the other two times I have mentioned them) it has been germaine to the conversation.)

I am MODOK · 02-02-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
How many of the Beckett Comics line titles do you read (first issues only 99 cents, each successive issue 1.99) and they aren't on cheap newsprint paper, either.

How many of Alias Comics (debuting in April) have you ordered (a good many of their initial offerings are only 75 cents for the first issues, and they are talking to have other lower priced issues as well)..?

(forgive me for mentioning beckett comics again, but this is the 4 time in two months that someone has mentioned the cost of comics. I hope noone thinks I am 'spamming' or 'trolling' by my constantly mentioning Beckett books, but I think in this case (and the other two times I have mentioned them) it has been germaine to the conversation.)

I don't think I've even heard of these...

arthur pendragon · 02-02-2005, 05:42 PM

As I've written before, they'd rather sell 100,000 copies at $3.50 than the possibility they'll 200,000 copies at $1.75.

Also, retailers don't want cheaper comics because the price won't justify the shelf space.

Regrettably, we're never going back.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/show...threadid=16186

Blind Assassin · 02-02-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by I am MODOK
I don't think I've even heard of these...

Here you go:

http://www.beckettcomics.com/comics.asp (they haven't updated their page for february yet, but you can find out about their offerings there)

As for Alias Comics, newsarama just did a story on them a couple of days/weeks ago.

You can go right here to see their offerings:

http://www.newsarama.com/pages/Other...hers/Alias.htm

arthur pendragon · 02-02-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
How many of the Beckett Comics line titles do you read (first issues only 99 cents, each successive issue 1.99) and they aren't on cheap newsprint paper, either.

How many of Alias Comics (debuting in April) have you ordered (a good many of their initial offerings are only 75 cents for the first issues, and they are talking to have other lower priced issues as well)..?

(forgive me for mentioning beckett comics again, but this is the 4 time in two months that someone has mentioned the cost of comics. I hope noone thinks I am 'spamming' or 'trolling' by my constantly mentioning Beckett books, but I think in this case (and the other two times I have mentioned them) it has been germaine to the conversation.)

I don't think some fans simply want cheaper comics, they want cheaper comics from the Big Two.

Lower prices are a great incentive but new properties are a pretty hard sell in this industry.

The incentive I never liked from the Big Two was the inexpensive introductory issue. I don't care if the first issue is free, so long as the rest are $2.99, count me out.

dollman · 02-02-2005, 05:46 PM

I think Supes is missing a major component as to why comics aren't $0.99 - the cost of living has gone up. Comics aren't the only periodicals that have gone up in price. I remember when I was able to purchase new paperbacks between $2 and $5. Not anymore.

And unlike previous generations, today's creators are a bit more savvy about their financial affairs, and rights to royalites on newly created characters, etc. And I suspect printing costs have also soared. All of this cost money. So even reverting to newsprint, you probably have to charge say 1.50 or $2.00 to cover all printing costs.

As to the paper argument, the major advantage of the glossy paper over newsprint is the color. Look at colors of the background, especially the skies ala recent issues of Strange and Ultimate FF. No freaking way you can duplicate the vibrant blues and whites on plain newsprint.

I'm sticking with color.

HailHydra · 02-02-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arthur pendragon
Regrettably, we're never going back.

oh... we'll go back. by the time it happens, though, it will likely be too late for most companies. but i can promise prices will have to make a turnaround sometime.
it's obvious that when you have 500,000 readers at $1.75, and 100,000 readers at $2.99, and that is one of your best sellers, something is going wrong. comics aren't seeing a significant enough influx of new readers anymore, and cost will drive away the ones who are still around.
sure, there is always going to be someone who will pay $7.50 to read their nice x-men comic, but it's illogical to think that it will be enough of a group to justify printing the thing.

adamcasey · 02-02-2005, 06:38 PM

Firstly, I don't think 99 cent is the magic number but rather $1.50 - $1.95. You don't buy a $12.95 video game, you don't buy a $300 car, doesn't 99 cents sound a bit fishy? $1.50 gives the impression of entertaintment value.

Secondly, I don't know if you can convince everyone that straight up newsprint is the best, but I don't mind the quality of paper used in Flash, Teen Titans, or Aquaman-- 'psuedo-newsprint'.

As for Beckett Comics, I know people just don't want cheaper comics but want cheaper X-Men comics, but the point of Beckett is that an independent company (albeit with a strong publisher) can publish glossy comics with a thicker cover and have no ads for $1.99. DC publishes Batman on glossy paper, yet charges $2.25, possibly taking a loss on individual issues, but making up the difference on volume. They print Flash on the psuedo-newsprint and charge $2.25, probably breaking even, and both titles have ads, so DC's game plan is anyone's guess.

NYCEvolution · 02-02-2005, 06:41 PM

Higher price does not mean better quality. I have smugges on some of the glossy comics. And sometimes in certain Ulitmate comics, the words are faded. Great, $3 for a comic I can't read because of a prinitng error.

HailHydra · 02-02-2005, 06:45 PM

int. borders - saturday afternoon. a father stands in a checkout line with his son ready to pay for the new john grisham novel. the son sees the pretty well-hidden comics turnstyle in the corner. the son grabs the new spider-man issue from the many bent over books.

son: dad, can i buy this?

dad: a comic? sure, son, i read these when i was your age actually.

son: but i spent my allowance on renting that video game.

dad: well, ok, you can have a $.50 advance, but just this time.

son: umm dad, that will cover the tax.

dad: put that piece of garbage back.

fade out.

Bakema NL · 02-02-2005, 06:50 PM

No, don't ever go back to shitty paper. Shitty paper is what it says, to wipe your behind with. I can only imagine the horror of European comics printed on shitty paper............stuff them in your own arse is what I would say then.
99 cts will never come back as a cover price. Inflation brings all prices up, except those of comics....definitely not. Then there's paper driving the price up, but for a good reason, it looks way better. Artists/creators are compensated better, almost everybody was screaming about the way they were treated before......not that they get the money that's due to them we want prices of comics to be lower......doesn't happen guys and gals, we elevated them to kind of popstars, so there are those among them making a more than decent living and you pay for that. People are stuck in mainstream comics, the big 2, so don't count on Indies cutting their prices, they have to make a living.

Let's see, I bought the latest Bluejackets comic today, an European comic about the American civil war.....comical in content. I paid 4.50 in euro's for a normal-sized album (and that's bigger than a comic, graphic novel size) with a thick cover (not hardcover) and printed on high-quality paper (not glossy), numbering 44 pages of art/text.
4.50 in euro's is almost 6 American dollars...........2 comics of 22 pages costing 2.95 each equals said European album in price and pages. The European album only offers maybe a little more with the size and quality of the cover. The artists here always have the rights to their books. Through the years almost nothing has changed in paper quality. But prices have gone up, so that's due to inflation, comics are products too. When I was a kid of about 6 years old (34 now), I bought a similar album for 4.50 in Dutch florins........so prices have doubled in roughly 25 - 28 years.
Is this the case with American comics too? Maybe it's more, but with prices you have been better off compared to us. And then you have to take into account what I said about compensations for the creators and the improved quality of paper, bringing it all closer to each other.
Still, I would buy even more comics if they cost me less.........but I don't want them to be of lesser quality in paper.
I would say American comics are not too expensive, they have grown along with the economy.

Quote:

Originally posted by HailHydra
int. borders - saturday afternoon. a father stands in a checkout line with his son ready to pay for the new john grisham novel. the son sees the pretty well-hidden comics turnstyle in the corner. the son grabs the new spider-man issue from the many bent over books.

son: dad, can i buy this?

dad: a comic? sure, son, i read these when i was your age actually.

son: but i spent my allowance on renting that video game.

dad: well, ok, you can have a $.50 advance, but just this time.

son: umm dad, that will cover the tax.

dad: put that piece of garbage back.

fade out.

Bah, humbug. How many years ago did daddy buy his comics as a kid? I bet his sneakers didn't cost the amount of money they cost now............everything costs more as when you were a kid 20 years ago, it's not so hard to understand only this little bit about economics.

Bakema NL · 02-02-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adamcasey
Secondly, I don't know if you can convince everyone that straight up newsprint is the best, but I don't mind the quality of paper used in Flash, Teen Titans, or Aquaman-- 'psuedo-newsprint'.

You are right, that's paper I can live with too.

HailHydra · 02-02-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bakema NL
Bah, humbug. How many years ago did daddy buy his comics as a kid? I bet his sneakers didn't cost the amount of money they cost now............everything costs more as when you were a kid 20 years ago, it's not so hard to understand only this little bit about economics.

my dad bought my comics for me once when i was 13 and visiting him in florida and freaked out at the prices. when he read them, they were $.25.

sneakers don't cost 250% more than they did 10 years ago, do they?

Crump's Brother · 02-02-2005, 06:56 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Blind Assassin
How many of the Beckett Comics line titles do you read (first issues only 99 cents, each successive issue 1.99) and they aren't on cheap newsprint paper, either.
(forgive me for mentioning beckett comics again, but this is the 4 time in two months that someone has mentioned the cost of comics. I hope noone thinks I am 'spamming' or 'trolling' by my constantly mentioning Beckett books, but I think in this case (and the other two times I have mentioned them) it has been germaine to the conversation.) [/QUOTE

Ha ha, I don't think you are spamming with all your plugging for Beckett comics, but I do think you are misguided.

I've tried a few of these comics ("Ballad of Sleeping Beauty" and "Fade") and found them to be rather poor--both in story and in artwork. I don't care how much they cost me.

It's fine that you keep bringing them up as a solution to higher priced comics, but if the product isn't very good, then the argument is moot. And yes, opinions are all subjective. I'm sure Beckett has plenty of titles you enjoy, I just cannot figure out why.

Good call to the poster who said that we all want "cheaper X-Men (or insert your favorite mainstream comic title here) comics, not cheaper comics." This is totally true.

I would be in favor of a return to newsprint and less glossy covers. My Astonishing X-Men #2 cover has white fingerprints all over it where the color faded away. Nice. There goes 3 bucks.

Bakema NL · 02-02-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HailHydra
my dad bought my comics for me once when i was 13 and visiting him in florida and freaked out at the prices. when he read them, they were $.25.

sneakers don't cost 250% more than they did 10 years ago, do they?

No, they don't. Fortunately they are assembled by little Chinese children for pathetic salaries. It's somewhat harder to find Chinese artists willing to and able to do the work in comics for ridiculously cheap wages.

Blind Assassin · 02-02-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crump's Brother

Ha ha, I don't think you are spamming with all your plugging for Beckett comics, but I do think you are misguided. I've tried a few of these comics ("Ballad of Sleeping Beauty" and "Fade") and found them to be rather poor--both in story and in artwork. I don't care how much they cost me.

It's fine that you keep bringing them up as a solution to higher priced comics, but if the product isn't very good, then the argument is moot. And yes, opinions are all subjective. I'm sure Beckett has plenty of titles you enjoy, I just cannot figure out why.

Good call to the poster who said that we all want "cheaper X-Men (or insert your favorite mainstream comic title here) comics, not cheaper comics." This is totally true.

As you said, taste is subjective, and I totally enjoy Fade From Grace and Ballad of Sleeping Beauty (didn't really like volume 1 of Ruule, so I didn't bother with issue 2)

But, cheers to you, for trying them at least. I think people would rather try a 99 cent or 1.99 book and find they don't like it, compared to the people who pick up a 2.95/2.99/3.50 book and find they don't like it.

As I said in the other thread, it appears that people who appear to be complaining about how books aren't lower priced, are actually only really complaining that the books they read are not lower priced.

Crump's Brother · 02-02-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
I think people would rather try a 99 cent or 1.99 book and find they don't like it, compared to the people who pick up a 2.95/2.99/3.50 book and find they don't like it.

Good call.

Jess Nukem · 02-02-2005, 07:08 PM

[/quote] oh... we'll go back. by the time it happens, though, it will likely be too late for most companies.

Marvel is planning a televison commercial for their Fantastic Four comic, right? They are hoping that whole new generation of kids with money will buy it. They're hoping that the price they stick on there will be the norm for the kids. What they'll be conditioned to.

It worked on me in 1993 when I started, comics were $1.25. Now looking back at it, the companies were getting greedy. When you have a price for an item, you're supposed to let it stick at long as possible. The first major price increase I remember from reading the old X-Men comics from the eighties, right after the Fall of The Mutants, was a letter from the new editor of chief Tom DeFalco in the Bullpen explaining why X-Men, Spidey, Avengers, G.I. Joe were getting their price increased to a full dollar while the FF were not, was because of talent, increasing paper costs, and etc.

They thought they could increase the price on their top-selling titles, just so they could keep the lower prices on the other titles. Something rubbed me wrong about that, the other titles' creators weren't worth as much as Chris Claremont or Larry Hama? John Romita Jr. who was doing Daredevil at the time with Ann Noceti (sp?) wasn't worth as much as Marc Silvestri who was basically doing chicken scratches on paper while John had a more polished line quality. (I know Marc has gotten better later on.)

Marvel knows that they could lower their prices but they don't want to even though their sales are shitty. They really are and DC's too compared to the early nineties. You can argue that the huge drop-off was in fault due to bad storylines and collector mentality, but the prices had a hand in it too.

I remember in the spring of 1994, comics rose to $1.50 and I thought no big deal. But in the summer, I saw all the X-Men comics go to $2.95 with no page increase and a shiny cover. It was the Phalanx crossover. Then fall came and the crossover was over and the comics went down a dollar. WTF?!

I was just starting to read comics and in a two year period, they had risen three times! It was nuts to a ten-year old at the time. I stopped reading for a year except for Generation X.

And now I'm watching it happen all over again. We had 1.99 for a few months in 2000, then it rose to 2.25, and in 2002, a lot of titles rose up to 2.99. In the winter of 2004, I noticed on the newsstand, the Marvel titles were all 2.99 even though some were 2.25 in the direct market.

Marvel is obviously the industry leader and they're shooting themselves in the foot on their price gouging. And they need to stop.

I know you'll say you have discounts in the store, but that's only because so many of you buy so much crap.

I'm so getting flamed and I'll be polled on whether I should get banned for this.

UX-Gal · 02-03-2005, 01:28 PM

I like glossy. Glossy stays.

I don't mind paying a lot for my comics, really. They should go down to $1.99 at least, thought.

What I want is not cheaper comics, but COMICS THAT ARE WORTH MY $2.99!!! If I am gonna pay three bucks for an issue, it'd better blow me away, I want MEAT in the story, I want LOTS OF STUFF TO HAPPEN (in a coherent way of course). I want comics that are all not splash pages but actually contain more than four pannels per page. I want comics that tell a GOOD STORY.

What happens today is that $2.99 is not worth what they are trying to sell.

---UX
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ux-fans

spiritofevil99 · 02-03-2005, 02:53 PM

What's wrong with using paper that was used in the X-men around issues 30-35ish (1991 series) and the ones used in Spawn 1...not quite newsprint that was used in the 80s but one step away from the glossy expensive paper.