WW PHILLY: MARVEL: YOUR UNIVERSE

[MattBrady]

by Jeff Stolarcyk

After starting off with a round of Marvel Hangman hosted by Dan Slott, Secret Invasion Editor Tom Brevoort welcomed the crowd to the "last Marvel panel...ever" (he was joking). He explained that, like DC's panel earlier in the day, the panel is a chance to interact with fans "just chatting about comics, chatting about stuff we all like." Brevoort was joined by Slott, Molly Lazer, and C.B. Cebulski.

Brevoort led off the panel by asking, "In general, do you like what we're doing now?" A fan started by complaining about Joe Quesada's recent comments that he's not a fan of high fantasy or sci-fi. "Right now," he said, "your entire writing stable comes from hard-boiled crime writing." Brevoort countered that it's good to publish a variety of books with a variety of tones. "Joe's good about not letting his tastes dictate the direction of everything." In the same vein, another fan asked for a new Silver Surfer book, stating that "he likes knowing that there's a bigger sandbox out there." In explanation, Brevoort said that in a way, the Surfer's story has already had a resolution - he was able to leave Earth.

"What other characters do you like that we're not doing stuff with?" Brevoort asked the room. A venerable fan suggested that the Marvel Earth be destroyed with "a galactic adventure about rebuilding what was lost."

"I don't know that we'll be blowing up America tomorrow...."

From the back of the room came a suggestion for a return for Typhoid Mary - which quickly segued into criticism of Brand New Day. Dan Slott confirmed that the marriage has truly been undone, "or else every time he's with a woman, he's committing adultery." The mention of BND - which Slott is quick to distance from the story before it - produces a rumble from the crowd.

Regarding Wolverine, there was some positive feedback about Marc Guggenheim's recent move to reduce his power level. C.B. Cebulski explained that Astonishing X-Men has always been in continuity, just over a very short frame of time. Discussing continuity, Brevoort said that "lockstep continuity" doesn't work, but that it's something fans seem to want. "It's a tough thing to plan," he said in regard to respecting continuity on a tight publishing schedule. "Who likes late comics?" Brevoort asked, and Slott (who has been notorious for his lateness) raises the only hand. Of course, this led a fan to comment on Daredevil: Target, and Brevoort saying, "Yeah, we hate it when that happens, too." Ultimately, he says, a really good comic will be read in trade for years to come, citing the ever-popular "nobody remembers that Watchmen was late," argument.

The next question from Brevoort: "How many of you have stopped reading comics and why?" Most of the room had stopped at some point, and several fans discussed what drove them away and what made them return. Not surprisingly, many fans left during the market oversaturation of the mid-90s.

Cebulski told an anecdote about buying comics as a child at the five and dime next to his barber. Slott spoke about seeing Spider-Man at a 7-11 signing comics. "They were riding down the freeway with a guy in a Spider-Man costume standing in the back of the truck," he laughs, citing it as the moment that hooked him on the comics hobby. "He just wrote ‘Spiderman;’ he didn't remember the dash," leading to a discussion of books that the audience loves. The fans run the gamut, talking about popular, obscure and even very recent issues.

Former Thunderbolts assistant editor Molly Lazer spoke about her first Spider-Man comic - "It scared the bejeezus out of me." She noted that the issue had a hologram cover, leading to the next question.

"Who," Brevoort asked, "was enticed into comics by an enhanced cover?" "We should do more of those!" Slott kidded after a good number of hands are raised.

Discussion turned to the number (and quality) of X-Men books, both now and in the past. Brevoort noted that Marvel publishes books that don't cross over into other titles, like Astonishing X-Men, for fans who prefer standalone books.

When asked about the Ultimate Universe, the response from the audience was overwhelmingly positive, with the caveat that the universe stay self-contained and relatively close-knit.

A very energetic fan explained his love about Marvel Zombies: "I love that the heroes are so bad that they eat their wives."

CB asked if letters pages should come back, and the response is a roar of applause.

Brevoort's last question was "We hear a lot on the net about problems with big events, but then they become some of the best selling comics we have." Respondents pointed out that 'event fatigue' isn't due to the events themselves, but the copious amount of tie-in issues that they create. "I know we say this at every panel, but we don't force people to do tie-ins that they don't want to do," Brevoort said, citing Secret Invasion: Fantastic Four as a miniseries that came about because Mark Millar and Brian Hitch did not want to write a tie-in to the crossover. Brevoort also notes that Captain Britain and MI 13 has gotten a boost in visibility because the new series launches out of the event.

With the panel going over time, the panel took one last comment. The commenter complained that heroes, who are supposed to be the smartest characters in the world, are frequently blindsided. A debate broke out among the audience about whether or not the hubris of the Illuminati is greater than their intelligence. With that, Brevoort bids everybody a good day and wraps up the panel.

[HartyPotter]

That darn hubris. Always getting in the way. Fortunately, it's more true for supervillains than superheroes.

[Clem]

It might not be adultery technically, but it sure feels like it.

Forget wiping Pete's mind, you'd have to wipe ours.

[Slayton]

Originally Posted by Clem

It might not be adultery technically, but it sure feels like it.

Forget wiping Pete's mind, you'd have to wipe ours.

You know what? I think you articulated my feelings better than I ever have or could. THAT is my problem with all this. You can say the MU has forgotten all you want, but I haven't and never will.

[Peter Price]

So far I've enjoyed the F.F. Secret Invasion tie in more than the Millar/Hitch run on the reg. series. I hope Roberto has a chance to write the main F.F. book some day. Marvel Knights 4 was great.

[Kahn]

Sounds like that discussion could have used more Namor.

[Clem]

Originally Posted by Kahn

Sounds like that discussion could have used more Namor.

Namor is always gonna be in that strange situation whereby everyone thinks he's cool, yet nobody is willing to buy his book.

Same for Aquaman. Those underwater guys should form a union or something.

[Thacher]

I hate the "We don't force people to buy tie-ins" argument. That's right, you're not. You're instead hyping the event to ridiculous levels and then making sure retailers order way up because we're afraid that if we don't have enough (non-returnable) stock, we're going to miss the boat and "the other guy" is going to get the sale. So we order up, because it's a crossover, and when the day comes that readers pull up stakes from "event fatigue" and decide not to buy them en masse (y'know, like in the 90s), retailers are left holding the bag and Marvel cashes the checks.

It's like when people talk (I think it was Jeph Loeb defending the fact that Rob Liefeld sells books, but I could be wrong) about X-Force #1 had to be considered a hit because it sold a million copies. I worked at a store that had a long box and a half of unopened sealed copies that they bought back in the day. Thankfully, they survived the 90s. A lot of other stores didn't.

I will say this though: At least this time around the events are good. Even the most lackluster event nowadays is gold compared to Clone Sagas and Onslaughts and the like.

[KirkWarren]

Originally Posted by Thacher

I will say this though: At least this time around the events are good. Even the most lackluster event nowadays is gold compared to Clone Sagas and Onslaughts and the like.

Countdown is worse than any event ever conceived. I'd like to see you pull something out that was worse. Just try. The Clone Saga was actually quite good for the first year or so. Fans liked it, sales went up, the marketing and accountants hadn't even sunk their teeth into it at that point. Up until around Maxiumum Clonage it was fine and a great event, if you can call it that. It's when they were forced to keep extending it over and over that it got bad and it still wasn't as bad as JMS's Amazing Spider-Man run, consisting of One More Day, Sin's Past, Iron Spidey, The Other, "clones" in the form of Ezekiel and non-unique Spider-Man powers, messing with the origin, etc.

Events are still just as bad as the crap that came out in the 90's. For every Sinestro Corps War, which wasn't even an event, or Annihilation, there's Countdown or House of M or Avengers Disassembled.

[jmperry]

Originally Posted by Clem

Namor is always gonna be in that strange situation whereby everyone thinks he's cool, yet nobody is willing to buy his book.

Same for Aquaman. Those underwater guys should form a union or something.

hilarious!!!

[GreggN]

Issues with unreturnable stock is the same in almost any business though.

Pretty much every bookstore has a remainders table, movie stores and record stores have the 4.99 and under bin you'll find a lot of older movies/cds in.

Hell, grocery stores arguably have it worse, most of their stock has a literal expiration date. That old copy of X-Force 1 isn't going to fester and rot come six months, somebody very well may end up buying it.

[ZeoVGM]

Originally Posted by KirkWarren

It's when they were forced to keep extending it over and over that it got bad and it still wasn't as bad as JMS's Amazing Spider-Man run, consisting of One More Day, Sin's Past, Iron Spidey, The Other, "clones" in the form of Ezekiel and non-unique Spider-Man powers, messing with the origin, etc.

Events are still just as bad as the crap that came out in the 90's. For every Sinestro Corps War, which wasn't even an event, or Annihilation, there's Countdown or House of M or Avengers Disassembled.

JMS had one of the best ASM runs ever.

Why did you mention Iron Spidey as a negative? There was nothing wrong with that. ASM was great during Civil War.

Sin's Past was a very well written and interesting story, It's mostly hated because they made a character fanboys love flawed. Good story.

One More Day is VERY unfair to even count as JMS' run. He didn't even want his name on it.

And I recently read both House of M and Avengers Disassembled. House of M was awesome. Disassembled wasn't bad either.

But no matter how much you didn't like them, they shouldn't even be said in the same sentence as Countdown.

[JasonJalen]

Does anyone here think these panel discussions (both this Marvel one and the D.C. one) are a waste? I feel like the people who are going to the convention are more likely to be on the Internet complaining anyway.

Just my thoughts. I didn't get anything from this at all. Maybe I'm still waiting for someone to say "Hey, we apologize for One More Day"?

-Jason Jalen

[TF_Loki]

Originally Posted by JasonJalen

Does anyone here think these panel discussions (both this Marvel one and the D.C. one) are a waste? I feel like the people who are going to the convention are more likely to be on the Internet complaining anyway.

Just my thoughts. I didn't get anything from this at all. Maybe I'm still waiting for someone to say "Hey, we apologize for One More Day"?

-Jason Jalen

It's for fans to talk to creators and vice versa so both sides step out of their bubbles and realise there are real people on the ends of these things. That's not a bad concept...

[johnnyrocket]

Ya know, I gotta make it one of these one day just to see if what I'm interpreting second hand is anything like being in the room.. From here it always seems they actually ask the fans for input but dismiss said concerns when they grate against editorial policy. .. or they are just flip about the whole thing. Meanwhile, someone always gets to the microphone before anyone else to ask about weighty issues like 'more Ambush Bug' or 'where the hecks Typhoid Mary?" before real controversial subjects like BND or late comics can be discussed.

Brevoort asking a question based on internet reaction is equally amusing since he's quoted so often as being completley dismissive of board criticisms.

[Angelophile]

Originally Posted by Clem

It might not be adultery technically, but it sure feels like it.

Forget wiping Pete's mind, you'd have to wipe ours.

Wonderfully put. Best summary of the situation I've heard.

[JETLASH]

Man that depresses me. Silver Surfer's story kinda ended when he was able to leave Earth? Ron Marz and Ron Lim launched a Silver Surfer ongoing series after that and it somehow last over 150 issues! I collected it up till then. Yes, after that the limited series Surfer were in I thumb through at the comic store and couldn't bring myself to buy. Can we please stop blaming the character when something fails and maybe admit the creative team didn't work?

[Jef]

Originally Posted by Thacher

I hate the "We don't force people to buy tie-ins" argument. That's right, you're not. You're instead hyping the event to ridiculous levels and then making sure retailers order way up because we're afraid that if we don't have enough (non-returnable) stock, we're going to miss the boat and "the other guy" is going to get the sale. So we order up, because it's a crossover, and when the day comes that readers pull up stakes from "event fatigue" and decide not to buy them en masse (y'know, like in the 90s), retailers are left holding the bag and Marvel cashes the checks.

It's like when people talk (I think it was Jeph Loeb defending the fact that Rob Liefeld sells books, but I could be wrong) about X-Force #1 had to be considered a hit because it sold a million copies. I worked at a store that had a long box and a half of unopened sealed copies that they bought back in the day. Thankfully, they survived the 90s. A lot of other stores didn't.

I will say this though: At least this time around the events are good. Even the most lackluster event nowadays is gold compared to Clone Sagas and Onslaughts and the like.

How ridiculous is it to blame Marvel for the books you decide to order to sell to your customer base? 70. 70 ridiculous.

[Asian Pirate]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

From the back of the room came a suggestion for a return for Typhoid Mary - which quickly segued into criticism of Brand New Day.

Can someone walk me through how that would happen? Jeez.

[Rawkingbird]

Originally Posted by johnnyrocket

Ya know, I gotta make it one of these one day just to see if what I'm interpreting second hand is anything like being in the room.. From here it always seems they actually ask the fans for input but dismiss said concerns when they grate against editorial policy. .. or they are just flip about the whole thing. Meanwhile, someone always gets to the microphone before anyone else to ask about weighty issues like 'more Ambush Bug' or 'where the hecks Typhoid Mary?" before real controversial subjects like BND or late comics can be discussed.

Brevoort asking a question based on internet reaction is equally amusing since he's quoted so often as being completley dismissive of board criticisms.

I definitely agree with the last part.

As to the beginning of it, having been at the panel, it's more that Brevoort was explaining a bit of the behind-the-scenes decision making. I think that this panel - and the DC one that Marvel's shamelessly robbed the format for - are a good way to have a dialogue with the fans. Something that rarely comes across in translation is that, in person, these guys are a lot more personable. Especially a guy like Dan DiDio, who very authentically seems like a kid at Christmas when he talks about comics. It's easy to just read the banter and smart@ss remarks and get the wrong impression.

[vbartilucci]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

A very energetic fan explained his love about Marvel Zombies: "I love that the heroes are so bad that they eat their wives."

But I...

Oh, never mind...

To a degree, this seems very similar to DC's new "For the love of comics" panel, more of a rap session than a news panel. It's a neat idea to get a panel for Sunday that isn't just revamping the same information over and over.

[Rawkingbird]

Originally Posted by Asian Pirate

Can someone walk me through how that would happen? Jeez.

Exactly as it's written. The fan obviously wanted to talk about BND and used any question he could as a springboard to get the mic.

[Ken B.]

Originally Posted by TF_Loki

It's for fans to talk to creators and vice versa so both sides step out of their bubbles and realise there are real people on the ends of these things. That's not a bad concept...

It's bad when people, such as Brevoort, absolutely refuse to acknowledge when they make mistakes and when they could admit to doing things better. It's constant excuses, comparisons to things that happened twenty to forty years ago to justify today's actions, and a straw man pulled out just to make things fun.

That Silver Surfer response was just dumb. Say that there are no immediate plans, don't try to spin it so that the reason you aren't doing anything at the present is because "his story ended when he left Earth."

Admit that things went very, very wrong with Astonishing X-Men and that you can't blame people for wondering how the heck it fit into continuity and wanting continuity (also, people can't read a self contained story like Astonishing X-Men when it's been delayed 25 issues over 4 years and wonder where it takes place).

Recognize that you can't say people still buy event comics when in the same panel people admitted they quit reading comics in the mid 90's due to constant big events and speculative covers. One leads directly into another.

And as Jetlash said, don't blame the character, blame the creators.

It always seems that when reading the Marvel panels, there is always this feeling that when a fan asks a fair question, they act offended and feel it is beneath them to answer. At least DC has some fun with it, and even give fans something to chew on when they have their events, such as the prodding and finally confirming that Barry is coming back in Final Crisis yesterday.

[Thacher]

Originally Posted by GreggN

Issues with unreturnable stock is the same in almost any business though.

Pretty much every bookstore has a remainders table, movie stores and record stores have the 4.99 and under bin you'll find a lot of older movies/cds in.

Hell, grocery stores arguably have it worse, most of their stock has a literal expiration date. That old copy of X-Force 1 isn't going to fester and rot come six months, somebody very well may end up buying it.

Yes but in the trade book business you are allowed a certain percentage of returns per quarter (or year, depending on the distributor). In comics there is very little returnability, except with DC, who allows returns on product that changes in content after the issue is solicited and initially ordered.

[Padding]

Originally Posted by JETLASH

Man that depresses me. Silver Surfer's story kinda ended when he was able to leave Earth? Ron Marz and Ron Lim launched a Silver Surfer ongoing series after that and it somehow last over 150 issues! I collected it up till then. Yes, after that the limited series Surfer were in I thumb through at the comic store and couldn't bring myself to buy. Can we please stop blaming the character when something fails and maybe admit the creative team didn't work?

Ron Marz and Ron lim launched it under their pen names of Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers