ECONOMICS AND COMICS: THE Q

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

We’ve been looking at what effect the changing economy may have on the comic book industry. With Tuesday's consumer confidence report showing that Americans are gloomier about the economy than they have been in 16 years, markets are bracing themselves for an economic slowdown caused by sagging home sales and rising gas prices.

Now we turn to the creators with this months installment of The Q, the monthly feature where we ask one question to a handful of people in the industry. The question this month:

- How do you think the slowing economy may affect comics?

Don Kramer (Nightwing): It is possible that sales will slow as disposable income diminishes. I hope not for myself and the industry as a whole. More people may turn to the web or reserving their income for the graphic novels that often follow the initial individual issue sales. The effects certainly can't be positive.

Scott Beatty (Number of the Beast): Less frequent trips to your local comics shop with the ever-increasing prices at the gas pumps? Action figures shrinking in scale due to high costs for petro-chemical plastics? Maybe we'll all get a little skinnier as we forego food -- also rising in price at an apparently exponential rate -- to fill up on our favorite funny books.

Christos Gage (The Avengers: Initiative, Thunderbolts, The Man with No Name, WildCats: Worlds End): I've always heard that comics are "recession proof," so hopefully the industry will be okay. But with gas at four dollars a gallon and food prices rising, consumers are cutting back on non-essential items. I know that for most fans, comics are pretty essential, but I think we may see some cutting back or altered buying habits -- perhaps an increasing "wait for the trade" phenomenon as readers bide their time to see how a book is reviewed or how their friends react to it before spending their money on it. Unfortunately, this can lead to titles with lower circulation being cancelled as their monthly sales drop, and we're already seeing that happen to too many good books. I don't know... I'm just hoping things turn around so everyone can afford to buy all the comics they want!

Sean McKeever (Teen Titans, Terror Titans): It seems to make logical and economical sense that the least necessary expenditures would be the first to go when the wallet gets thin. But then look at the box office of Iron Man and Indiana Jones, and the sales of GTA IV and so on in a time of rising gas and food costs. If people want a particular entertainment experience badly enough, they'll still find a way to pay for it and still see value in it. But as money gets tighter and as credit-card interest charges climb higher, that list of "musts" will most likely get shorter.

Adam Beechen (Batgirl, Countdown to Adventure): People who buy comics regularly and are serious fans will cut back in other areas in a bad economy so they can still get their books. If anything, some people might skip monthly titles and wait for trades in the hopes they might have a little more disposable income by the time the collected books come out.

Terry Moore (Echo, Runaways, Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane): I think the slowing economy is going to be good for comics. When times have been tough in American history, people turn to entertainment for relief. Don't forget, Elzie Segar (Popeye creator) became a millionaire during the Great Depression. So, I think we should all start drawing Popeye.

Kurt Busiek (Trinity): Historically, comics did well in bad economic times, but then, historically, comics were cheap. They're not cheap any more, so who knows?

Related:

Economics and Comics: Talking Shop

Economics and Comics: Publishing in a Pinch

[Cray_ws]

I agree that the "wait' for trade phenomenon will likely blossom, and ultimately save this industry from the recession. I think more trades and OGNs will mean less waiting and comics move further away from being completely dependent on monthly magazine sales.

I would not be surprised if anthologies become viable again in the American market. The chapters printed in the anthology would be collected in trade as individual stories. This is how the Europeon and Asian market thrives.

[Glen Cadigan]

If a slowing economy affects anyone, it'll be smaller publishers first. The big two have fat which they can cut, but smaller publishers are cut to the bone as it is.

[Ironhorse]

I think more people are gonna download comics from internet, it's an alternative, not legal, but a cheap alternative anyway. Peace.

[Doctor_Chronos]

I think what happened historically has to go out the window this time. This time it seems like almost a perfect storm of economic hits. Food prices going up, gas prices going up, people losing their houses, people getting laid off.

In the past the decision was "I'll brown bag lunch instead of going out for lunch every day so I can keep buying comics" The decision this time may be "I can drive to work or I can buy comics" Or "I can make a mortgage payment or I can buy comics". And, as Kurt B. points out, comics aint' cheap anymore.

And still no one is talking about rising comic prices and the impact on the long term health of the industry.

[Eli Katz]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Kurt Busiek (Trinity): Historically, comics did well in bad economic times, but then, historically, comics were cheap. They're not cheap any more, so who knows?

This is the scary truth. At 3 or 4 bucks a shot, they cost as much as renting an older DVD or buying a used book.

It's easy to drop titles when cash is tight. Believe me, I've done it many, many times before. If it comes down to reading comics or renting movies, I'll go with renting movies.

[bawker]

Busiek nailed it.

Twenty two pages you can read in five/ten minutes for three bucks isn't going to cut it in this sort of economic landscape.

Sad, but true.

Of course, the issues at hand are much larger than Marvel, DC or anyone else. . .and they don't have much control over the Fed or our economy. . .but, perhaps, at least in the case of titles that are "one and done" (the kid centered comics, etc) there could be a trial of going back to the old newsprint style paper and looking at alternative printing methods. . .

. . .and maybe something similar to the style of the "Essentials" for Marvel and DC's flagship titles for those that want to just read and not collect. Print the normal high gloss stuff, but, take the past 12-18 issues or so of previous story lines from your big titles (JSA, ASM, etc) and put it in a B&W digest form for $9.99.

I'd be more apt to buy a big ol' phone book sized collection like that right now that anything else, and I'd wager I wouldn't be the only one.

[wishlish]

I'm surprised that such an article doesn't mention "torrents" or "piracy".

The use of torrents to downloaded pirated content has skyrocketed despite the best efforts of the RIAA and major ISPs. Mininova and The Pirate Bay, two sites that specialize in offering torrents, are now two of the top 100 websites in terms of traffic, according to Alexa. Both sites have large, thriving comics listings, and just about every Marvel, DC, and major independent publisher's product ends up on there within a few days of release.

While Marvel and DC were able to stop the largest comics torrent site, Z-Cult FM, from distributing their product, they haven't been able to get these sites to stop. And they probably won't be able to. Z-Cult was a small site hosted by a college grad student. Mininova and The Pirate Bay have withstood serious challenges from major Hollywood groups, including the RIAA, and are still standing. If Hollywood can't take down those two sites, it's doubtful that DC and Marvel can.

While the recession will eventually lead to some belt-tightening, it probably won't result in a decrease in home Internet use. Most people in the US see home Internet access as an important utility and will be loathe to shut the data pipe off.

So we have a "perfect storm"- lots of people with Internet access and less money in their pocket for entertainment media, and easy access to the major torrenting trackers that house every new comic published within days of release. There's going to be more and more users foregoing comic purchases for comic downloads, and Marvel and DC (along with every other comics publisher) is going to have a hard time stopping this trend.

[Doctor_Chronos]

You really can't stop downloading. It has too many arms. If they manage through some miracle to stop torrents, then everyone will switch to Usenet. If they stop Usenet (which I don't even know is technically possible), then they'll switch to something else. And then something else, then something else, ....

The only thing that will really stop it is if it becomes so wide spread and the publishers don't embrace the technology (people will pay for it if done right) at some point they simple won't be making any money of the things and there won't be anything to pirate.

[cuttingedge]

[quote=Eli Katz]This is the scary truth. At 3 or 4 bucks a shot, they cost as much as renting an older DVD or buying a used book.

It's easy to drop titles when cash is tight. Believe me, I've done it many, many times before. If it comes down to reading comics or renting movies, I'll go with renting movies.[/QUOTE

Why do people forget about inflation? Ten cents in 1939 was worth VASTLY more than it is in 2008. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but you get the gist. Comics cost roughly the same when adjusted for inflation, although I will say you did get a lot more bang for your buck in the Golden Age.

Will the comic industry suffer through the economic hardships? I think so, but not as much as you might imagine.

[mgmonkey]

Things are tight, I cut back on titles about 6 months back, and now I'm going to cut back again. Thousands of other buyers I would imagine are doing the same.

The big 2 seem to release a glut of titles at the moment, and people's tightening of purse strings will definitely hit some of the lower selling titles.

The torrent thing will definitely grow. Personally I prefer to read my comics on the printed page.

I think on a positive note, a cut back on titles being released could mean a rise in quality of the product as the quality artists and writers are kept, and the not so good are not.

Let's see I suppose.

[Doctor_Chronos]

Originally Posted by cuttingedge

Why do people forget about inflation? Ten cents in 1939 was worth VASTLY more than it is in 2008. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but you get the gist. Comics cost roughly the same when adjusted for inflation, although I will say you did get a lot more bang for your buck in the Golden Age.

Will the comic industry suffer through the economic hardships? I think so, but not as much as you might imagine.

According to this site http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
10 cents in 1939 (is that how much they cost back then? I thought it would have been like 3 cents or something) is $1.55 in 2008 dollars.

I wouldn't complain if they dropped it $1.55 to match inflation

[Tabula_Rasa]

Originally Posted by Eli Katz

It's easy to drop titles when cash is tight. Believe me, I've done it many, many times before. If it comes down to reading comics or renting movies, I'll go with renting movies.

Agreed. Movies cost MILLIONS of dollars to make, not to mention the months of painstaking writing, casting, shooting, set building, editing. I can either get that for four dollars or a Bendis book with lots of dialog and told to stay tuned until next month when there may or may not be action involved. Decisions, decisions.

[Franklin Harris]

I suspect demand for comics is pretty inelastic. Most comics readers now are part of a fairly loyal, hardcore audience. They'll give up food before they give up Wolverine. But it's probably a lousy time to try to get readers to pick up new titles with new characters.

[Cray_ws]

Originally Posted by cuttingedge

Why do people forget about inflation? Ten cents in 1939 was worth VASTLY more than it is in 2008. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but you get the gist. Comics cost roughly the same when adjusted for inflation, although I will say you did get a lot more bang for your buck in the Golden Age.

Will the comic industry suffer through the economic hardships? I think so, but not as much as you might imagine.

I've heard this argument before about the adjusted inflation, but what many forget is that in 1939 comics greatest competition was candy and bubblegum, that's a far cry to DVD rentals, music downloads, and video games.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by bawker

Busiek nailed it.

Twenty two pages you can read in five/ten minutes for three bucks isn't going to cut it in this sort of economic landscape.

Sad, but true.

Of course, the issues at hand are much larger than Marvel, DC or anyone else. . .and they don't have much control over the Fed or our economy. . .but, perhaps, at least in the case of titles that are "one and done" (the kid centered comics, etc) there could be a trial of going back to the old newsprint style paper and looking at alternative printing methods. . .

. . .and maybe something similar to the style of the "Essentials" for Marvel and DC's flagship titles for those that want to just read and not collect. Print the normal high gloss stuff, but, take the past 12-18 issues or so of previous story lines from your big titles (JSA, ASM, etc) and put it in a B&W digest form for $9.99.

I'd be more apt to buy a big ol' phone book sized collection like that right now that anything else, and I'd wager I wouldn't be the only one.

"Phonebook" collections are one thing, but don't look for the single issues to fall in price - it's not just the printing that's the problem. Remember, back when the (as they were) Marvel Age comics were $2.25 in the DM, they couldn't get newsagents to stock them for less than $2.99. Now, the non-DM editions of many comics are $3.99 even when they're $2.99 in the DM.

Back in the 90s, Marvel's short-lived 99¢ line was short-lived for a reason. They could hardly get anywhere to carry them at that profit/space ratio.

[Franklin Harris]

Originally Posted by Cray_ws

I've heard this argument before about the adjusted inflation, but what many forget is that in 1939 comics greatest competition was candy and bubblegum, that's a far cry to DVD rentals, music downloads, and video games.

Which explains why comics readership is down in general, but also leads me to suspect that the readers who are left are probably going to keep reading even in the face of a bad economy. They are the readers who really. like. comics.

[pogofan]

Originally Posted by Doctor_Chronos

According to this site http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
10 cents in 1939 (is that how much they cost back then? I thought it would have been like 3 cents or something) is $1.55 in 2008 dollars.

I wouldn't complain if they dropped it $1.55 to match inflation

Here are some comparisons for more recent years:

year . . cvr. price* . equiv. price in 2007**
1960 . . . $0.10 . . . . $0.70
1965 . . . $0.12 . . . . $0.79
1970 . . . $0.15 . . . . $0.80
1975 . . . $0.25 . . . . $0.96
1980 . . . $0.40 . . . . $1.01
1985 . . . $0.75 . . . . $1.45
1990 . . . $1.00 . . . . $1.58
1995 . . . $1.50 . . . . $2.04
2000 . . . $1.99 . . . . $2.40
2005 . . . $2.25 . . . . $2.39

*for the first 32-page Batman issue dated that year
**using the all-items Consumer Price Index for urban consumers (CPI-U)

Yes, I have too much time on my hands.

[AirDave817]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Christos Gage (The Avengers: Initiative, Thunderbolts, The Man with No Name, WildCats: Worlds End): I've always heard that comics are "recession proof," so hopefully the industry will be okay. But with gas at four dollars a gallon and food prices rising, consumers are cutting back on non-essential items. I know that for most fans, comics are pretty essential, but I think we may see some cutting back or altered buying habits -- perhaps an increasing "wait for the trade" phenomenon as readers bide their time to see how a book is reviewed or how their friends react to it before spending their money on it. Unfortunately, this can lead to titles with lower circulation being cancelled as their monthly sales drop, and we're already seeing that happen to too many good books. I don't know... I'm just hoping things turn around so everyone can afford to buy all the comics they want!

Adam Beechen (Batgirl, Countdown to Adventure): People who buy comics regularly and are serious fans will cut back in other areas in a bad economy so they can still get their books. If anything, some people might skip monthly titles and wait for trades in the hopes they might have a little more disposable income by the time the collected books come out.

Kurt Busiek (Trinity): Historically, comics did well in bad economic times, but then, historically, comics were cheap. They're not cheap any more, so who knows?

Yep, that would be me. I'll wait for the trade and watch the reviews. I can't afford to be disappointed anymore.

[CKdoubleU]

Driving 20-25 miles, drinking a gallon of milk, or reading a 5-10 minute comic?

I'll take the milk & gas (and not necessarily in that order).

The piracy/download argument is a very valid one. There are non-torrent sites out there too, that are becoming formidable. Even buying the Marvel-authorized DVD-ROMs of '60 years of Captain America' or whatever is still much MUCH more cost-effective than buying the hard copies.

I used to be a somewhat serious collector, and sold my collection after my daughter was born. Now, 5 years later, I'm reading back issues electronically on my Tablet PC - it's actually pretty cool, and I kind of like not having to bag & board my books. Plus, they're completely portable - on a recent trip I was able to read on my laptop & not have to lug around a shortbox, nor have to mess around with the bags & boards.

The industry is seriously missing out by not looking into this further.

[nuv_pompeii]

I think the quality of the writing and art will improve to keep readers interested...we might see more "big events"...some of the boarderline comics will be cancelled.

Ultimately it will hurt the LCSs and I bet online services will see and increase. I agree that more people will wait for trades....that's what I plan on doing while ordering on DCBS.

[jaymac]

It was refreshing to hear honest answers from the panel. I hope they don't get into trouble from Marvel and DC for not plugging their mag! (get those sales up!)

Definitely agree with the above posts that pirating will definitely rise with a shaky economy plus pirating will only get easier. Do they have a game plan? Haven't heard it from DC.

Yeah I have all of the GIT Corp DVD ROMs great pricing for recessionary times of about $0.10 per issue. They canceled them late last year probably due to the Marvel Digital Comics subscription service.

Since two companies have a stranglehold on the market they don't want to rock the boat by doing something different. Maybe a recession would help to make the publishers more creative. Unfortunately as it was mentioned above, the recession will hurt the smaller publishers the most.

[rgfrost]

Originally Posted by Doctor_Chronos

According to this site http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
10 cents in 1939 (is that how much they cost back then? I thought it would have been like 3 cents or something) is $1.55 in 2008 dollars.

I wouldn't complain if they dropped it $1.55 to match inflation

I would certainly complain if they lowered the quality of the writing, pencils, inks, colours, printing and paper to 1939 standards and wanted $1.55 for it.

Comic prices are higher today, but the quality is so much better that I think we're getting a better deal today than people did in the past.

The companies aren't ripping us off, people, it costs money to hire good writers and artists, and a lot less comics are sold today, so we each inherit a larger share of the bill.

The economic doom and gloom is greatly exaggerated by the media. I don't see any near term death knell for our pastime. Gas is not going to double in price. The reason gas costs $3 instead of $2, now, is because there are a lot of Indian and Chinese people that have broken out of poverty and want to drive cars. The demand is up so the price is up. If the price doubles, those Chinese and Indians won't be able to afford to drive their cars and demand will go down and price will go down. The question is where is that balance point.

Less than 2% of mortgages, in the US, were those ridiculous mortgages. House prices are down because they were overinflated. It isn't because the economy is falling apart. As a home owner I'm glad I'm not in the market for selling, right now, but it really is a good thing that house prices are down. It will make it a lot easier for people just starting out on their own to find a home.

Smile - enjoy your comics. You can get about 180 of them with the rebate tax your uncle George just sent you!

[LowKey Loki]

We are not in a recession people. It seems that some people don't realized that.

[JasonJalen]

I think Kurt Busiek nailed it on the head. Comics, and the entertainment industry are "recession proof", but we've never saw the type of prices attached to comics like we do now.

In the recession, what was it, 30 cents? 50? Tops. When the economy dipped in the '70s with the energy crisis, we were probably around a dollar.

The truth of the matter is as the comics audience aged, and we failed to attract new readers, you're dealing with an audience that does face the economic pains more than you would with kids buying comics.

I'm backing the "Raise the price of comics to $5 but pack more content and back stories into it" train. If we can show the consumer that there is more value to what they're buying, that $5 won't look so bad compared to much else offered in the entertainment industry, including movie tickets.

-Jason Jalen
Open Source Comics