COVER GUY: CHIP KIDD ON FINAL CRISIS & TRINITY

[MattBrady]

Last week we gave you the first week at the trade dress for DC’s Final Crisis. The bold style garnered (at last count) over seven pages of comments from readers.

This week – not only do we have your first look at the Trinity logo, but we’ve also got award-winning designer Chip Kidd to talk about his work on the looks for both Trinity and Final Crisis.

Newsarama: Chip, let’s start at the very beginning - how were you approached for the jobs this time? Is there a hotline from the DC Offices to your office, or are things less dramatic?

Chip Kidd: [laughs] [DC Editorial Art Director] Mark Chiarello called me in later January or early February, and he rather cryptically said, “I have two jobs for you – one’s going to be a lot of fun, and one’s going to be a huge challenge.” I said okay, and then he elaborated on them both. The fun one was Final Crisis, and the challenging one would be Trinity.

So I went in and had a meeting with Dan DiDio and Mark, and they laid it out in terms of what was wanted and in terms of what kind of impact they wanted to make and how there, frankly, wasn’t a lot of time. That last part was fine in and of itself, as I was just about to go out on a book tour for my new novel, so it’s not like I couldn’t work on it on the road, it’s just that’s much harder than doing it from your own studio.

Basically, certain things were already there – they showed me the art – the full bleed Green Lantern image and the other, and they said that they wanted that to be the direct version and they wanted it to have a huge impact. The art in the vertical strip was actually their idea – that was given to me, and not my decision. I was fine with that, actually – the more limitations that are given, frankly, the easier it becomes, because then you don’t have to try to explore infinite options for your final version.

NRAMA: So what went into the process for Final Crisis’ look?

CK: Well, to start with Final Crisis - the big thing that no one would be able to know yet, and I won’t get too specific here, but for the people that think it’s a generic look – wait. By the third issue, you’ll start to get it. Basically, the trade dress dissolves. So, it’s starting out as something now, and by the second issue, it will be slightly different, the third issue, even more different, and between the third and fourth issue, I hope people will get it, and understand what we were doing all along. It might not make people like it any better, but they’ll at least understand what I have in mind. It’s an evolving trade dress.

NRAMA: So the evolving was…whose idea?

CK: That was mine. The thing that they presented me with was that they wanted to do two versions for each issue of Final Crisis. One will use the full bleed art, and the other will use this vertical strip of art. So what has been released are two different covers for Final Crisis #1. The Green Lantern one is the Direct Market, and the other is whatever isn’t Direct Market anymore.

I don’t think I’m giving anything away by saying that Marvel’s Civil War got noticed for a certain way it was presented, and we want to improve on that. There are people who are in the talkbacks saying that DC is just riffing off Civil War, but again – wait and see. By the fourth issue, you’ll realize that’s not what we’re doing. We’re doing something else.

Basically it took me about a week and a half to figure out what I wanted to do, and then I went in and presented the idea, and they were terrific about it. There was no adjusting that needed to be done. What you’re seeing here is pretty much what I presented.

NRAMA: Well – seriously though, how much “adjusting” is there on your designs? You’re acclaimed graphic designer Chip Kidd after all…

CK: It’s weird. It’s a strange thing to be known for that, especially in the comic book world, where there are people that specialize in everything except this, whether it’s lettering or coloring or digital coloring or inking or whatever – you really don’t hear people at comic shops listing off the names of their favorite comic designers. They do a lot in house, of course, and a lot goes uncredited, but to answer your question, once I present them with the design and they say, “Okay, that’s great,” and I send them the bill and they pay it, they can do whatever they want.

They’re very respectful, but for instance, when I did the trade dress for All-Star Superman, the concept for both that and All-Star Batman and Robin was really clean, typographically distinctive logos with elegant, streamlined lettering, and that was it. That was all that there was supposed to be. But then, All-Star Superman won the Eisner, and issue #3 comes out, and there’s this big old, “Winner of the Eisner Award!” sticker on it. [laughs]

NRAMA: And it wasn’t where you would’ve put it?

CK: Ohhh…I think I would’ve asked if they just could’ve mentioned it inside somewhere [laughs]. But of course, that wasn’t going to go over with anybody.

I did the cover for Cormac McCarthy’s novel, The Road hardcover, which was a very bleak, austere, literally dark cover. And then Oprah picked it for her book club, and - boom – all the covers have to have the big Oprah sticker on them. What are you gonna do? It’s a silly thing to complain about in either case.

But that’s just my way of saying that after I’m done, it’s their call. If Final Crisis wins the Eisner, and they want to carry over the trade dress on the collection, and slap the Eisner sticker on it…oh well.

NRAMA: So – when you do have the meetings with DC, generally, do they have that many ideas as they did with the vertical strip on Final Crisis, or do they just give you the feel of the project and let you go sort out those infinite options, as you put it?

CK: My experience with them has been no – if they are coming to me, they want me to look at it fresh, and just take it, go away, think about it, do what I think is right, and come back with what I think they should do. In a weird way, it’s been three and three.

The first thing I really did for them was the trade dress for the Batman titles after “No Man’s Land,” and that was about creating a new logo and type treatment. They liked that, and then it was the All-Star series, and now these two. So it’s not like I’ve done tons of stuff for them. This is keeping in mind though, that what I do for the comics is completely separate from what I do for the licensed publishing division, where I basically generate my own projects like this Batman in Japan thing that I’m doing. They’re a completely different set of people to work with and show things to, with one exception of course, Paul Levitz at the top of both.

So they’ve been great. My general philosophy in graphic design in general, whether it’s a comic book cover, or a book cover, a magazine cover or whatever – is to try and show them something that I think is totally right for the project, but that they were not expecting. Other than that, there’s no other modus operandi.

I go to the comic shop every week, and I’m lucky – I live in New York City, so I have a whole host of different shops that I can go to depending on what neighborhood I’m in. I really enjoy going into the store and looking to see what’s new, and what I notice first on the shelves and why. That’s how I approach these things – I approach them as a fan, and as someone who’s going into a comic book store. When I go in, I want Final Crisis and Trinity to stand out, to draw the eye first.

NRAMA: That said; let’s get to the challenging one - Trinity.

CK: Right – the givens with that of course are, it’s going to be a weekly, they’ve covered a certain amount of ground with 52 and Countdown, so now what do we do? For me, it’s fun – it’s the big three, and I’m a huge fan of them.

NRAMA: So how did you approach it?

CK: The problem put forth with Trinity is that it shouldn’t look like 52 or Countdown, but it needs to speak to what it is: a weekly that’s going to feature Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. They didn’t tell me the plot, and that’s fine – the givens were there. They did suggest that it wouldn’t be a bad idea to do something with their logos, which was fine.

So they sent me a bunch of stuff to work with, and the general feel was that, because it’s the three of them, it’s not one logo, it’s the three, and it’s varying combinations of the three logos, and they are arranged to look like they exist in three dimensional space.

NRAMA: Okay…how do you achieve that in two dimensions, though?

CK: Imagine three levels, and you’re looking down on them. On the lowest level, for this version, is the Superman logo, and it’s the largest. On the middle level is the Wonder Woman logo, and it’s the second largest. On the top level is the Batman logo, and it’s the smallest. Add to that an extremely sharp, or limited depth of focus – Batman’s is in focus, Wonder Woman is slightly blurry, and then Superman’s is the most blurry. And then there are two other combinations of that, each with a different logo on the top of the three.

That was the concept, and then the other concept for the cover was to do triptychs. So, instead of a single image for every issue, you get a third of an image. Basically, the idea is that the first issue comes out, and you get part of the picture, and the second gives more of the picture, and the third completes it. And then you put them all together and it makes a panorama.

For some reason, I didn’t think they would go for that, but they did. The nice thing about that is that you’ll be able to build these letterbox pictures, and in theory, it’s less work for the cover artist. Instead of having to come up with something new every week, they can come up with one thing every three weeks. As a fan, I can’t wait to see that – I think it will be cool.

NRAMA: And that was supposed to be the challenging one…

CK: [laughs] Yeah. I think though if there’s anything I want to say again is to ask people not to judge the Final Crisis concept too soon. I was trying to mimic the whole concept of something that starts out as a conflict, and just gets worse and worse and worse. Like I said, people will see where things are going with each issue.





Newsarama Note: The word “Trinity” will appear above the logo on the cover of each issue.

[Crump's Brother]

Cool, cool, cool.

I'm about to crack The Learners this week, love Kidd's stuff.

Good interview too.

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

damn, those are three sorry-looking logos...

the concept of 3-in-1 covers sounds moe promising. just as long as they're better covers than the countdown ones, and more thought-out like 52

[caats19]

so wait. which one evolves? the iconic or the sliver? will i miss something cool if i get the iconic?? DETAILS MATT!! i don't get it.

the trinity thing is kinda obvious. but i guess that's what makes the most sense.

[breakfast]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

CK: Well, to start with Final Crisis - the big thing that no one would be able to know yet, and I won’t get too specific here, but for the people that think it’s a generic look – wait. By the third issue, you’ll start to get it. Basically, the trade dress dissolves. So, it’s starting out as something now, and by the second issue, it will be slightly different, the third issue, even more different, and between the third and fourth issue, I hope people will get it, and understand what we were doing all along. It might not make people like it any better, but they’ll at least understand what I have in mind. It’s an evolving trade dress.

Wait, what?
Now I'm intrigued.

[tdaniel]

Anything Kidd is alright by me. And those FINAL CRISIS covers are so eye catching it's ridiculous. Like them or not (I like em) they get your attention, have gotten people talking and are unique.

My follow-up here:
"It’s weird. It’s a strange thing to be known for that, especially in the comic book world, where there are people that specialize in everything except this, whether it’s lettering or coloring or digital coloring or inking or whatever – you really don’t hear people at comic shops listing off the names of their favorite comic designers."

...would have been, "So in your estimation is there a niche market for aspiring designers?"

[God-Man]

The Trinity logo with the "S" symbol on the front works the best, I think. I like how the Bat symbol kinda frames everything.

[GrundyPants]

Man, if the FC covers were any indication, these Trinity logos are gonna get HAMMERED!!

[Corpulent1]

Originally Posted by God-Man

The Trinity logo with the "S" symbol on the front works the best, I think. I like how the Bat symbol kinda frames everything.

I agree. I find it kind of odd that Kidd used the rounded Batman symbol, though. He hasn't worn that symbol or the old yellow oval for many years now. Not nitpicking, just thought it was a bit odd. I guess it does add some symmetry to the whole, since the other two logos are very top-heavy while the Batman logo is much more symmetrical.

[Parademon]

I think the Final Crisis covers are great - I don't massively love the simplistic trade dress, but they will clearly stand out in the store - and that's exactly what they're supposed to do. I also like the fact that the art is only minimally obscured by teh dress itself.

I'm intrigued to see what is meant by the "evolving" of the covers, but would rather not know any more - I'd lke the surprise of seeing it when they come out.

And the Trinity logos aren't great - but there isn't really a huge amount you can do combining the three individual logos and still having them be recognisable. It does what's needed - any vague comic fan would recognise the three logos and therefore know who the book is about (if they couldn't figure it out by the name!)

[Somebody]

Two points:

Firstly, the vertically-symmetrical Bat-logo hasn't been on the character's chest for, what, ten years? Certainly not since they dropped the yellow oval post-NML. Why do they keep using it on cover logos? Which leads into my second point...

Originally Posted by God-Man

The Trinity logo with the "S" symbol on the front works the best, I think. I like how the Bat symbol kinda frames everything.

Isn't that one basically the "Superman/Batman" logo adjusted to cram the =w= in?

[X-punged]

Other than a meh kind of reaction, the nasty part of my mind visualizes the spatial dynamics of the three characters as aligned by each logo.
Which leads to really bad thoughts.

[fmyii]

We have lots of Final Crisis background and preview analysis at http://thenoblog.com/

If anyone is interested in checking it out.

[Rabbitoh]

The Final Crisis cover has a nice and clean design, something that most comics are lacking. It's simple, formulaic, hardly inspiring stuff - but it works as a simple measure. The Trinity logo on the other hand is poo. The Superman/Batman logo is bad enough, but re-hashing it to include Wonder Woman's insignia lacks imagination and leaves the reader with an ugly mishmash.

[Arkadian]

Five min of that looks better than that imho :P

[Xysmurf]

Arkadian beat me to the punch.....The SUPERMAN/BATMAN logo on top of the WW logo would look best. Arkadian I would raise the SUPERMAN/BATMAN logo so that you could actually see the WW that's part of her logo.

[1logan]

I AM SOOOOOO SICK AND TIRED OF BAR CODES DESTROYING COVERS.....SO UGLY!!!!

[Happyhatter]

Originally Posted by Arkadian

Five min of that looks better than that imho :P

I thought that was what they were going to do with Trinty's logo...

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Arkadian

Five min of that looks better than that imho :P

That works for me.

[Ken B.]

I need to see those Trinity logos on a cover or something not white, because as shown it looks really Photoshop-ish. Like a poster's signature or something.

Maybe a little bit translucent on the cover would work too.

[Happyhatter]

Originally Posted by 1logan

I AM SOOOOOO SICK AND TIRED OF BAR CODES DESTROYING COVERS.....SO UGLY!!!!

Why can't the Bar Codes go on the BACK of the comic like regular books???

[Corpulent1]

I don't mind 'em. A lot of indie publishers put the bar code on the back cover, though. I've always wondered why Marvel and DC don't do the same.

As for the Trinity logo, it is fairly bland, but if Kidd's directive was to use the three logos in the design, what else is there to do, really? I'm curious about how the word "Trinity" with just the three logos spaced out on a single horizontal line beneath it would look, but that's even more bland.

[Andre MOP]

Chip is amazing.

What other cover designers exist? Just for comparison

[blazerk0hl]

"...not only do we have your first look at the Trinity logo..."

DC gave away free Trinity promo posters that had this logo on it at the NYCC.

[Brenticles]

Actually we first saw the Trinity logo in the Dan DiDio interviews. They were in the background and I was pretty sure they'd show up on the series. I think they look great!

I have no idea what he's talking about on the FC covers, but it sounds interesting.