GREG RUCKA TALKING TO GARY PHILLIPS ABOUT HIGH ROLLERS

[MattBrady]

by Greg Rucka

Gary Phillips has the distinction of being the only crime writer I’ve ever seen my dad get excited over. Considering that I’m a crime writer, that’d be hard to take, but considering it’s Gary, it’s forgivable.

The thing about Gary Phillips is that he’s one of the biggest secrets going in two industries at once. In the world of crime novels, he is known, loved, respected, and cherished for his noir style, prose so clean and sharp you can give yourself a bleeder just reading it. So hard-boiled, the yolk has turned green. In comics, he has delivered the same laser-focused fearlessness, taking his stories into uncharted terrain, effortlessly flipping over rocks that truly have been hiding the scum-of-the-earth beneath. And when you first meet Gary, you have no doubt that he can handle, personally, any-damn-thing that might come out from beneath said rock, looking for a fight.

Crime fiction isn’t simply fiction about dropping bodies and stealing cash. At its heart, crime fiction is social activism, a way of focusing a lens on those elements of a flawed society that the rest of us would sleep much better ignoring. Crime fiction points to what is wrong, and, while enticing you with its corruption, forces you to ask why it is the way it is, and what can and should we do to repair the damage. At its best, crime fiction is societal redemption.

Gary Phillips is its best.

Which brings us to High Rollers, and me, in Portland on a Sunday afternoon in April, sitting at my laptop and trying to think up questions to email to Gary. To be perfectly honest, I’d have much preferred to do this with a tape recorder and a couple of beers, but you take what you can get.

So, here you go. Greg Rucka interviewing Gary Philips about High Rollers, soon-to-be-released by BOOM! Studios.

Greg Rucka: I want to start off with a totally unrelated question. Think of this as me producing my bona fides, proof that I actually do know you and that this isn’t all dog-and-pony.

Why do you call me ‘Doc’?

Gary Philips: Well of course you’re the Doctor of the Word, but that’s self-evident to anyone who’d read your comics or prose work. More to the point, Doc is one of those terms of, I won’t say affection ‘cause you know, we’re both mas macho, but a term that arises from the ‘hood. That is one guy might call another guy he knows and digs “Chief,” “Doc,” “Boss,” “Homes”…in that vein.

GR: You realize you’re the only person ever to give me ‘hood cred. But that’s a good segue into High Rollers, actually. Let’s talk about the series, here, first with an overview.

GP: High Rollers is about the dark pursuit of the American Dream. It’s the quintessential gangster story whose roots lie in works like W. R. Burnettt’s Little Caesar to The Sopranos, though I hope with original flourishes. Our main character is Cameron Quinn, CQ, a rough and tumble chap who when we first meet him is an enforcer for a drug lord. But CQ is an ambitious lad, and is practicing his own brand of enlightenment; downloading audios of self-help business books to the Way of the Samurai. He’s going places and there’s bound to be a few bodies strewn about on his road to success.

I should note too CQ is very much in that anti-hero mold. The balancing act is to give you a cat who is capable of bad, bad things, yet not so reprehensible that you as the reader aren’t compelled to see what happens next with this complex, driven character.

GR: It’s funny, because so often crime stories are short-handed as “morality tales.” While you’re certainly a moral writer, you’ve never been one to moralize. Given what you’ve said about CQ, how much a part do concepts like morality and ethics play in High Rollers? And with that, I suppose, comes the question of companion concepts, like loyalty and honor.

GP: Interesting questions you’ve raised. For me when you write the crime story, as distinct from a mystery story, morality is not left at the door so much as you present these characters, desperate in some form or another, wanting something, and leave it to the reader to make of them what you will. Often in a story about criminals, matters are relative; you compare and contrast one rough character against another. In a mystery story, generally speaking, our protagonist may be flawed, but is more clearly delineated by his or her actions and their pursuit of justice against the criminals or the ones who have done a criminal act.

That’s not to say within the crime story, innocents, civilians, aren’t sometimes corrupted or unwillingly drawn into the criminals orbit. This happens in High Rollers in the nature of the complex relationship between CQ and his sister who has left the ‘hood far behind – or so she hoped.

So in High Rollers, while CQ is no choirboy, it becomes clear what he will and will not do. There is a code, albeit a bent and distorted one, that he adheres to in the course of events. And as you say, this then does get us to matters such as loyalty and honor. Groups embrace these ideals in the operation and functioning of that group. The police are often sited as being the Thin Blue Line, that line of defense that separates the civilized, law-abiding world from those who would invade and disrupt that order. We also know that sometimes loyalty and honor can be, bent, as say when a cop loses control and there’s a questionable shooting of a suspect. The cops might close ranks, take on a “us” versus “them” mentality as that incident is investigated.

CQ then embraces what he interprets as loyalty and honor, while he engages in building his criminal enterprise. This then brings him into contact with another pivotal character who is a criminal, but is guided by a higher ideal. I’m not looking to make excuses for these various players in the story, but hopefully present them in a dimensional way. How there is sometimes a collusion of interests and at other times, adversarial points of view. But characters who if you asked, them, would tell you they believe in certain kinds of loyalty and honor.

GR: Whenever I read your stuff, I’m always struck by its verisimilitude. What kind of research went into the series?

GP: Like I’m sure you do, I read a lot of stuff, errant stuff, from articles in the New Yorker about the history of elevators to nanobots in Wired, to political pieces in The Nation. And TV, man, I’m a TV junkie. Just recently watched this great doc on PBS called King Corn about how the homogenization of the one kind of corn we now grow in America winds up in us in inordinate amounts given this corn is mostly used for cattle feed and corn syrup. That these kernels are damn near all starch, little nutrients, as opposed to original corn, from Mexico say not even 60 years ago, was mostly protein. And this has health consequences. Family farms are being bought out, and so on.

Now shades of Obama’s supposed elitist statements in San Francisco on the campaign trail, I’m not some brie eatin’, designer water lovin’ elitist. Ha. I’m hooked on Lost and when they were younger, took my kids to their share of monster truck rallies.

I mean I might not ever do anything with that corn information, but that sort of thing gets you to thinking about something else, right?

Plus I know a few cops, a deputy (we call them that in L.A., not assistant) DA or two, play poker with a couple of criminal defense attorneys…I guess what I’m saying is as a writer, whether you’re writing about crime and mystery, super hero stories, westerns, sci-fi, what have you, you want to absorb data and information from various sources.

The internet is a wonderful tool, but nothing is better than reading it in a book, which at least has had some amount of vetting, and nothing beats anecdotal stories from people who are in that profession be it the uniformed cop, the steelworker, the social worker, etc.

GR: Explain the significance of Scarface on CQ.

GP: Both versions of Scarface are in my head as well as the other books and movies I referenced as well as The Godfather for that matter. What I’m really saying is the crime story is that funhouse warped mirror image of the American success story. What Makes CQ run to paraphrase Budd Schulberg.

GR: Do you think the crime story is part of the American Dream, in that sense? All those examples we have in the pop culture, they’re all in pursuit of the same things, it seems. What is it that CQ really wants? Does he even know?

GP: The crime story, particularly the modern crime story as it emerged in the late ‘20s as the Great Depression came on, is said to be the flip side of the pursuit of the American Dream. That is these are men and women who seek money, a certain station in life, power…influence even, but lack the tools, the sophistication and/or the wherewithal, to achieve it by say being a captain of industry, pioneering doctor and so on.

But as Woody Guthrie sang in “Pretty Boy Floyd” of those times -- and applicable now post the white collar rip offs of hard-working folks’ monies and seniors of their life savings, that went on with such companies as Enron and WorldCom – “…some will rob you with a six-gun and some will rob you with a pen.”

So yes, CQ’s methods are not as refined shall we say as those corporate swindlers, but he’s after what he thinks is the ultimate using his crude methods. But it so happens he’s in an underground enterprise and a certain amount of violence is called for. But because he has a vision of being legit too, he’s also keeping his mind on what’s good for business. And like Pretty Boy Floyd, there’s conflicting tendencies in CQ. We see him as the ruthless enforcer but also being thoughtful and not just thinking about himself.

So like a lot of guys blinded by the bling, initially CQ thinks what he wants is to run things. But even within this initial story arc, there’ll be inklings that CQ will ask himself is this all there is?

GR: The pages I’ve seen look amazing. Where’d you find Sergio Carrera and what is it like working with him?

GP: That’s the deft touch of my editor, Mark Waid. He found Sergio Carrera and brought him on board. Sergio is one hell of a draftsman. The way he handles body language, facial expressions…I just hope my script is up to his art!

GR: You guys seem to be working together very well, from what I’ve seen. You mentioned Mark, there, and having worked with him on 52 and other things, I’ve gotten to know him pretty well. One of the things I discovered about him is that he is, I think, an excellent teacher, whether he knows it or not. What’s the working relationship with him like?

GP: What I like in working with Mark is his notes and suggestions are clear to me. If we have points of disagreements we both can discuss those and arrive at a good compromise. Really, coming from the prose realm, I imagine people looking at comics from the outside don’t have an appreciation of the amount of thinking, revision, and just sweat that goes into making these “funny books.” Writing enough to get the point across, offer character shading, but not over-writing the material. Is the artist the right match for what this world is the writer is trying to get across? And for the crime story, set as it is in “our world,” you have to have someone gearing their head differently. This is not drawing Jack Kirbyesque machines (and I love those types of stories too) with dudes who have competing Muscle Fitness mag physiques and women with butts you can balance a service tray on...so more than anything, I’ve come to appreciate how critical the “look” is to what I’m trying to convey.

GR: I’ve got to ask this, just because when it happens to me I’m always a little bewildered and delighted. Have you written anything in High Rollers so far that’s surprised you? Any of the characters taken off for you in a way you hadn’t imagined or envisioned?

GP: As you know, you sketch out in text who your characters are, their relationship with each other, what they want and all that. But once you get to crafting the story, sometimes it’s the nuances they reveal to you in what they say or what you have them not say. How do I get across a certain state of mind without being blatant about it? It could even be how the artist has rendered the character and this opens up other possibilities of who these people – ‘cause you know they live in your head -- are. For instance, a plot point came to me that I hadn’t outlined, and it came about as I thought about them and wrote this scene with two minor, but pivotal characters, in High Rollers. Now of course I won’t tell you what that is as you’ve got to buy the book and read it…ha.

GR: I suppose I’ve strayed far from the course, here, but I thought I’d try to get answers for my questions as much as talk about High Rollers. But that said, is there anything you’d like to add about the series?

GP: Just that I hope comics fans will give High Rollers a read…it’s not just about the bling. Maybe too some of the readers who’ve followed my prose work will also take a chance and pick up a copy when it hits the stands. I think all concerned will be pleasantly surprised.

GR: It is always great talking to you, man. Thanks!

High Rollers #1 features cover art by Brett Weldele, item order code: APR083634. You can read more about Gary Phillips at his website: http://www.gdphillips.com/

[Moored]

Wow, the art looks really good. And considering Greg Rucka is delivering high praise, this might turn out to be great stuff.

[Ambidextrous]

Fantastic interview and just made the decision to buy this monthly and not trade-wait. If this is the type of project that we can look forward to from BOOM! then Waid should be very successful as their EiC.

[Moored]

Originally Posted by Ambidextrous

Fantastic interview and just made the decision to buy this monthly and not trade-wait. If this is the type of project that we can look forward to from BOOM! then Waid should be very successful as their EiC.

Not just Waid. Scott Dunbier is now at Boom too. I really think with Waid and Dunbier, Boom can deliver great stuff.

[NoPrize]

Count me in----. When does the first issue ship???

[Spade]

Never heard of him until now. I will actually give his BOOKS a try. I'm looking for something along the lines of Walter Mosley and the Wire.

[BKThomson]

Sold! Just ordered it! Thanks for the Tip!

[ShortBox]

I'm on-board for the ride. I think this will be the first thing I've picked up from Boom.

I bought Gary Phillips' Shot Callerz mini from Oni Press way back when. That was a great street crime story that comes from the same world as Ed Brubaker's Criminal. In that book, one group of criminals rips off an LA check cashing store run by another bunch of criminals. As a nice detail, the robbery occurs during a parade for the NBA champion Clippers when most of the downtown LA populace is "trying to push up on some of that Clippers action". One woman who is smarter than the rest of her crew goes on the run to try and avoid being caught up by the crooks looking to get their money back and more, but of course she can't hide forever.

This will be a welcome book, and maybe we can see Crime stand alongside Zombies as a healthy genre alternative to the capes in comics.

[J.Williamson]

I love the current crop of crime titles coming out.
High Rollers sounds like something I will definitely enjoy reading.
Having Rucka do the interview was a great touch, maybe this will make Rucka do some crime work in comics soon!

[RockSP]

Didn't Phillips do a mini about a P.I. for Vertigo a few years ago? Can't remember the name of it...

Anyway, I'll check this out.

[Hobowatcher]

Originally Posted by Moored

Not just Waid. Scott Dunbier is now at Boom too. I really think with Waid and Dunbier, Boom can deliver great stuff.

Dunbier is at IDW.

[jpritchett]

Gary is one of the nicest guys working in comics (or any other media, for that matter) today--and also one of the smartest. He's got a great mind, and an amazing ability to capture both character and dialogue. If there was any justice in the world, he'd be one of the top-selling creators out there.

Jason

[moshdaddy]

Ditto the above! Gary is the best. His comics are awesome and so are his books.

BTW: the Vertigo series Gary did was called ANGEL TOWN.

Chip Mosher
Marketing and Sales Director
BOOM! Studios

[Moored]

Originally Posted by Hobowatcher

Dunbier is at IDW.

Oh right. Mixed up.

[jlh]

I'm looking forward to picking up the trade for this series. It's the kind of story I would want to read in one sitting. But it is definitely on my radar.

[BKThomson]

Originally Posted by moshdaddy

BTW: the Vertigo series Gary did was called ANGEL TOWN.

Wow! Angel Town was excellent. I think I'm going to have to check out his prose work now.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by moshdaddy

BTW: the Vertigo series Gary did was called ANGEL TOWN.

Yeah that was it. I need to read it again...

[moshdaddy]

My personal favorites are his stand-alone novels - THE JOOK, BANGERS and PERPETRATORS.

His detective series featuring are great, too! They are:

Ivan Monk series:

PERDITION USA
VIOLENT SPRING
BAD NIGHT IS FALLING
ONLY THE WICKED

Martha Chainey Series:

HIGH HAND
SHOOTER'S POINT