NYCC '08: THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES PANEL

[MattBrady]

by Chris Mautner

Lest anyone doubt the popularity of DC’s flagship team book The Legion of Super-Heroes, let him or her discuss the matter with the devoted throng that attended the 50th anniversary panel at the New York Comic-Con this Saturday afternoon.

Though far from packed, a sizable crowd nevertheless showed up to hear artist Keith Giffen, writer (and DC comics publisher) Paul Levitz and current Legion editor Mike Marts talk about their experiences working on the book.

Asked by moderator and historian Peter Sanderson what was the defining element that made the Legion such a revolutionary book, Levitz cited the title’s willingness to let the characters age, change their relationships and even, in the seminal case of Lightning Lad, die. Giffen pointed out that of all superhero teams, the Legion was the first to recognize the price of heroism.

“Up until then comics had come out of classic comic strip tradition of freeze frame. Everyone is going to be same age forever,” Levitz said. “The Legion, four issues into own series said ‘Screw this stuff, we're going to kill people and change relationships.’”

Marts cited the book’s clubhouse atmosphere, which gave younger readers a strong opportunity for identification. “A lot of kids knew you couldn't be Superman or Batman but hanging out in clubhouse with friends is something you did all the time,” he said. “You could relate to them almost immediately.

Giffen, meanwhile, stressed the book offering a counterpoint to the dystopian, post-apocalyptic future type of stories that have become so popular these days. The Legion, he said, gave you a “future you wanted to live in. … That’s when it made its mark.”

Asked about past contributors to the lengthy series, Levitz discussed how writers like Jerry Siegel and Ed Hamilton brought, respectively a levity and an epic sense of scale to the work early on, while Jim Shooter (who was supposed to attend but had to cancel his appearance at the convention) brought a humanity to characters who had previously been somewhat cardboard – something that, to this day still amazes Levitz, given that Shooter was showing that sense of humanity while he was 13 years old. All three cited the work of the late artist Dave Cockrum as seminal. The contributions of Curt Swan and Jim Sherman were also highly praised.

Asked about the specific challenges of working on the Legion, the immense number of characters (“30 damned characters” as Giffen put it) and their histories, costumes, and other miscellany were cited as a strong hurdle.

“I thought I was somewhat familiar with the Legion when I came on board, but I was in for a little bit of a surprise,” Marts said. “Knowing what color Batman’s costume is pretty simple,” versus the multitude of legion kids. “It’s tricky to keep the look consistent.”

Levitz stressed the need to be willing, especially for artists, to delve into the challenge that is the group’s immense history while being willing to build new worlds. “For Legion you either get the crazy artist who's willing to put everything in it or it really shows,” he said.

The Legion’s past reboots were discussed, with Giffen saying that his “5 Years Later” shift in the Legion (which has a love/hate relationship with fans) came about due to his not knowing what else to do when he landed the writing chores on the title after Levitz.

Asked about Legion’s future, Marts said Shooter has an intricate plot laid out and that readers would see more romance and perhaps even a wedding in the book’s future. He also said a legion-related project would be coming out at the end of the year, adding that Shooter is “on for the long haul.”

“There’s nobody lining up to draw or write the Legion,” Giffen added, talking about all the worlds and space aliens an artist would have to invent for such a comic. “There's no point of reference you have to make it up as you go along.”

The high point of the panel had to be when, in response to a fan question, Giffen voiced his ire for the character Karate Kid.

“I hate that character,” he said good-naturedly. “I agreed to come on Countdown only if I could kill him. If I come on Legion again, he’s dead.”

Why does he hate him so much? “Two words put together. Super-Karate.”

“Everyone in this field has characters they hate,” Giffen said. “I just have the bad taste to say it out loud.”

[SeamusMcClernan]

Originally Posted by KeithGiffen

“There’s nobody lining up to draw or write the Legion,” Giffen added, talking about all the worlds and space aliens an artist would have to invent for such a comic. “There's no point of reference you have to make it up as you go along.”

I can't believe that.

Isn't George Perez dying to do this book? Or am I thinking of METAL MEN?

[nietoperz]

George Perez is doing the Legion of Three Worlds mini-series.

[Michael Heide]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

“There’s nobody lining up to draw or write the Legion,” Giffen added, talking about all the worlds and space aliens an artist would have to invent for such a comic.

I would give a kidney, an eyeball and all my toes to write the Legion.

[MCaputo]

I was there - panel was a snoozer. The only sign of life was when the "John Byrne Superman reboot" was mentioned; Giffen started to say something contrary or controversial (I couldn't tell if he was pro- or con-), but it was swept under.

Nobody mentioned Mike Grell - the guy who made the Legion look dynamic and cool. Yes, I know those were Cockrum designs but I also recall none of us Marvel kids would look at a DC book until someone threw a Grell Legion issue into the pile and we were all, "WHAT'S THAT?" and hooked.

Sequart.org published a book of essays on the Legion over its 50 years and had a small print run for sale at the convention. Nicely done - I'm only through a few articles, but there's a high level of quality so far. The run sold out. Check here

http://www.sequart.org/news/?story=2132

Dig around here:

http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.c...h/label/legion

Tim's the editor of the book and he runs a fine blog as well.

[Sketchpad]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

“There’s nobody lining up to draw or write the Legion,” Giffen added, talking about all the worlds and space aliens an artist would have to invent for such a comic. “There's no point of reference you have to make it up as you go along.”

I'd love to write LSH Consider the line starting with me

[Arkadian]

I'd give four arms to write Legion.

I've really come to like this current form of the Legion and would love to see a LOT more Legion.

[s*p rules]

I hope it's sooner rather than later that we know which Legion is "earth one"'s future Legion, considering this Earth's Superman and Supergirl both "have" a Legion. One of those two (I'm thinking it'll probably be Supergirl) will prove to not only have gone into the future, but the future of another Earth, to meet a Legion. I'm really enjoying this current version of the Legion, and hope they are permanent, and would like to see them interact a bit with some present heroes - a JLA or Titans crossover would be nice.

[Kinnelon]

It'd be a dream to write any Legion title...though given some of the stuff I've written, I don't think DC will be taking me up on that offer anytime soon. Aargh...the horror of being a 'radioactive' writer! I promise I won't make all the male characters homosexual; I won't! I won't!

Maybe just Element Lad...but there's sort of a precedent (much argued upon) there.

Yeah, and The Emerald Empress would be IN my Legion...as a member...how awesome would that be!

Mr. Giffen, hating Karate Kid...that's just wrong; I'll certainly miss him.

Long live the Legion!

Clayton Kinnelon Greiman

[Aaron]

They had a Legion panel and this is the best they could come up with to talk about? Seriously?

Thanks to Johns, the Legion (as a concept) is hotter now than it's been in years. They have a huge miniseries coming up, drawn by the hottest artist in comics and the current "it" boy and all they could talk about was how much Giffen hates Karate Kid?

That's disappointing.

As a side note, I have a feeling that the reason Supergirl was shunted over to the Earth-Whatever LSH that Shooter's doing now is because after Final Crisis is over, we'll have the real, honest-to-god, Pre-Crisis Linda Danvers back, and they didn't want the current Barbie model to interact with Johns' Legion.

Aaron

[Spot]

Shooter is “on for the long haul.”

[motteditor]

Check out mightygodking.com (when it gets back up) for some really cool thoughts on what the author would do with the Legion. I'm not a fan of every idea he's got, but most of them are very cool.

As MCaputo said (though I don't know if I can attribute it to Grell), LSH was the one DC title I've kept to when I wasn't reading anything else from the company. (I'm reading a few more books from them now, but it's still the main one, even if Shooter's current run is so far leaving me disappointed.)

[7thunders]

Originally Posted by MCaputo

I was there - panel was a snoozer. The only sign of life was when the "John Byrne Superman reboot" was mentioned; Giffen started to say something contrary or controversial (I couldn't tell if he was pro- or con-), but it was swept under.

Nobody mentioned Mike Grell - the guy who made the Legion look dynamic and cool. Yes, I know those were Cockrum designs but I also recall none of us Marvel kids would look at a DC book until someone threw a Grell Legion issue into the pile and we were all, "WHAT'S THAT?" and hooked.

Sequart.org published a book of essays on the Legion over its 50 years and had a small print run for sale at the convention. Nicely done - I'm only through a few articles, but there's a high level of quality so far. The run sold out. Check here

http://www.sequart.org/news/?story=2132

Dig around here:

http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.c...h/label/legion

Tim's the editor of the book and he runs a fine blog as well.

I WAS THERE and I thought it was one of the better panels. You really could see the friendship and respect that Paul and Keith shared. Paul Levitz was very insightful and talked plainly about the good and bad. Admitted as a publisher crossovers were great but as a writer you get screwed. I also liked how Levitz refered to all of the creators by their first name. Never John Byrne..it was John, or not Joel Siegel, it was Joel.
Definetly the type of panel a fan wants to go to.,..none of the " wait and see" answers or " we don't talk about it" or just plain giggling at private jokes. Oh...and Mart was extremely well versed. He came as really intelligent... looked like a guy that played college football.

[Kolimar]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

“I hate that character,” he said good-naturedly. “I agreed to come on Countdown only if I could kill him. If I come on Legion again, he’s dead.”

Why does he hate him so much? “Two words put together. Super-Karate.”

“Everyone in this field has characters they hate,” Giffen said. “I just have the bad taste to say it out loud.”

Heheheh

[mikediehl]

Originally Posted by motteditor

Check out mightygodking.com (when it gets back up) for some really cool thoughts on what the author would do with the Legion. I'm not a fan of every idea he's got, but most of them are very cool.

As MCaputo said (though I don't know if I can attribute it to Grell), LSH was the one DC title I've kept to when I wasn't reading anything else from the company. (I'm reading a few more books from them now, but it's still the main one, even if Shooter's current run is so far leaving me disappointed.)

All of the ideas on that page are gold. Every last one. There's enough of a mix of very new and "what's old is new again" to really capture what everyone likes about LSH.

There's seemingly no shortage of Legions being kept around to try this out on. I say give him one of the 3 Worlds Legions after the summer and let it rip.

[JamesJesse]

Where can I line up to write for Legion?

I have like several ideas I would love to pitch.
One of which includes a Legion meets the original All-Star Squadron.

[Inferno]

I was also there...it really was very boring. Giffen and Marts didn't even seem like they wanted to be there...and the historian was annoying with the way he kept trying to make the first years of Legion more improtant than they were. None of the creators would answer the way he wanted them to on that though.

[Scarlet Mage]

Originally Posted by MCaputo

Nobody mentioned Mike Grell - the guy who made the Legion look dynamic and cool. Yes, I know those were Cockrum designs but I also recall none of us Marvel kids would look at a DC book until someone threw a Grell Legion issue into the pile and we were all, "WHAT'S THAT?" and hooked.

Gotta disagree but art critique is so subjective. Before the Archie Legion's second or third year I was never tempted to drop the Legion except when Grell was drawing it. His too thin and oddly posed stuff was just not to my taste at all and it always surprises me that he has such passionate fans. But like I said, to each his own and there really is no wrong answer to art opinion. I hear there's even people who dislike Curt Swan's artwork!

[tgail]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Mage

I hear there's even people who dislike Curt Swan's artwork!

One of the greatest ever. Decades ahead of his time, in my opinion.

[7thunders]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I was also there...it really was very boring. Giffen and Marts didn't even seem like they wanted to be there...and the historian was annoying with the way he kept trying to make the first years of Legion more improtant than they were. None of the creators would answer the way he wanted them to on that though.

I'd definetly have to disagree... I think both Giffen and Marts wanted to be there but didn't have much opportunity to talk due to the bad moderator. The "historian" was the only bad part of the panel. My favorite thing though was seeing Giffen and his wife ( assuming it was her) walk into the room and down the aisle holding hands all the way.

[DaVeO]

As long as Shooter is on for the long haul, then so am I. He got me interested in the "Three-boot" Legion.

[KyleV]

I thought it was fairly telling that Levitz pointed to the fact that the Legion ages and changes as a defining characteristic, while Marts pointed to kids wanting to hang out in a clubhouse.

Because that desire to have kids eternally hanging out in the clubhouse is what's given us the reboots. The team isn't allowed to age anymore.

Which makes me think the original Legion should be the Legion of Earth-2 -- everyone actually seems to age there.

[IvCNuB4]

Originally Posted by Aaron

As a side note, I have a feeling that the reason Supergirl was shunted over to the Earth-Whatever LSH that Shooter's doing now is because after Final Crisis is over, we'll have the real, honest-to-god, Pre-Crisis Linda Danvers back, and they didn't want the current Barbie model to interact with Johns' Legion.

Aaron

Exactly. It makes no sense to think that Superman was jumping to some alternate Earth everytime he went to the future. Supergirl has only been to the future once.

Unless, of course, the Time Trapper has been messing with Kal all along. Hmmmm ....

[redchief]

In my 20+ years of comic reading, I never could get into the Legion (and I tried to read it when Giffen did it). But I gave Shooters run a shot and it has grown on me.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by IvCNuB4

Exactly. It makes no sense to think that Superman was jumping to some alternate Earth everytime he went to the future. Supergirl has only been to the future once.

Unless, of course, the Time Trapper has been messing with Kal all along. Hmmmm ....

What I mean is, if the whole point of what Johns is doing is to recapture the spirit and (approximate) storyline of the Pre-Crisis Legion, it seems unlikely that they'd continue to have Kara be jettisoned from that thread. That would sort of be counter-productive to what they are doing. The Johns stories have been VERY careful not to mention Supergirl, so I am assuming that wherever they are taking place, the pre-crisis Kara Zor-El is still part of that history, complete with an association with the LSH.

I mean, heck, if you are going to all the trouble of resetting things, why leave Supergirl out of the mix? That would just create another conundrum similar to what happened when Wonder Woman's debut was set back after Crisis.

As to how they'll dispose of/explain away the current emaciated BarbieGirl, I haven't the foggiest.