NYCC '08: ROBERT KIRKMAN ON DESTROYER MAX

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

For readers who like seeing Robert Kirkman let loose on his own characters and self-created universes for Image, the writer will now get to do something similar for Marvel.

In Destroyer MAX, a five-issue mini-series starting in September that was just announced at New York Comic Con, Kirkman is creating a whole new universe within the MAX imprint for a revived and re-imagined Golden Age superhero. And the series will reunite Kirkman with Cory Walker, the artist who co-created the Invincible ongoing series with the writer for Image.

The series focuses on Destroyer, a character who is credited as being the first superhero ever created by Stan Lee. The premise for the story puts Destroyer in his 80's now -- an aged yet still-tough-as-nails superhero who just found out he's dying, so he's kicking villain butt and tying up loose ends in ways that are best housed in an adult-level MAX series.

Newsarama talked to Kirkman about how he turned a '40s superhero into a high-action, violent character worthy of the MAX imprint. And as the writer explained what he likes about the series, we found out that this is "by far" Kirkman's favorite thing he's ever done for Marvel.

Newsarama: Robert, this is a pretty unique idea -- taking a Golden Age superhero, aging him and putting him in a MAX series. Where did this idea come from?

Robert Kirkman: After I'd finished on Ant-Man, Aubrey Sitterson, the editor, came up with the idea of possibly bringing the Destroyer character back and having him be old. He had recently read Battle Pope and the Brit paperbacks -- the books that I did at Image -- and he really liked how I wrote old characters. So he said, "Oh, you know what? Let's do an old guy at Marvel." Because old characters are a lot of fun. People don't realize that.

So he came up with this Destroyer character and bringing him back and possibly making it a MAX book. He was the one who suggested using Cory. This will be the first thing that Cory Walker and I have done since Invincible, which has lasted more than an issue or two. This will be the first full Robert Kirkman and Cory Walker trade paperback since Invincible Vol. 1.

NRAMA: Have you and Cory started on the project?

RK: Yeah, yeah. Cory's knee-deep in the issue right now. Cory and I have worked together dozens of times -- it's just been small projects since Invincible, like a couple issues of Marvel Team-Up and Irredeemable Ant-Man. We've got a great working relationship. Cory's one of the few artists I work with who draws pretty much exactly how I'm picturing things while at the same time making them better. So it's a lot of fun to be working with him again.

NRAMA: What is the story about?

RK: It's about Destroyer, which is the first character Stan Lee created, according to Wikipedia. He was kind of a Captain America type character in the '40s. He was posing as a Nazi soldier, then at night, he would go out and run amok behind enemy lines to undermine the Nazi occupation of somewhere. So it was a pretty cool premise for a 1940s comic.

We are operating under the assumption that the character was a prominent superhero from the '40s until now. So when we pick up the book, he's in his 80's and has a wife and children and grandchildren. And we're going to be exploring the last years of his life to show the end of his superhero career. In our first issue, he finds out that his heart is about to give out. He's had a number of heart attacks before, and his doctor is warning him that if he doesn't stop doing his superhero stuff, it will kill him. And he can't quit because he's got a bunch of villains out there that he needs to take care of. So the mini-series is about him taking it upon himself to kill all of the villains that are out there who can pose a threat after he is dead.

NRAMA: Thus the "MAX" imprint.

RK: Yeah. It probably has more violence in it than anything I've ever done. The opening sequence of the first issue is just crazy. The first page is him just punching a hole through a guy's head.

NRAMA: What are his powers?

RK: He's super strong and super fast and super cool. He does Captain America stuff, although he's probably a little stronger than Captain America. I'm keeping it vague just in case I want him to do anything cool.

NRAMA: Are you keeping with the stories that were told about him before, or is this kind of a new take on the character?

RK: I'm going on the assumption that he's had an ongoing series since the '40s, so I'm basically writing Issues #701-#705. So it's along the lines of, over time, he's had changes made to his character. And he's had supporting cast members added and taken away. I think if you compare Captain America comics now to Captain America comics of the '40s, there's not a lot that connects with what was going on back then. So I'm kind of doing that with Destroyer. It's the same character that was around in the '40s, but it doesn't really connect because there is a large gap of stories that are only hinted at in the mini-series.

NRAMA: So this isn't a case where we're going to see lots of flashbacks to the old days.

RK: No. All stories like this, they usually do flashbacks, and I'm trying to avoid that kind of stuff. We're only going to see him in modern times.

NRAMA: Since you're getting to kind of recreate his universe separately from the Marvel Universe, is he going to be the only superhero running around? Or are there other superheroes in his universe?

RK: We're not really going to show anybody else, but you know, they could be around.

NRAMA: So it's kind of implied that he lives in a place where there are superheroes?

RK: Yes.

NRAMA: Tell us about Destroyer a person. It sounds like he's a family man, right?

RK: Keene Marlow is his real name. His family is a very important part of the series. Just about every story focuses on different things that have happened to his wife and his daughter. So it's kind of fun because we're doing this ultra-violent, hyper-action series with this character. He wears this mask as a superhero, so you don't really see him as this old guy, but as soon as he gets through punching holes in people's heads and kicking people's jaws off, he goes home to his granddaughter's birthday party and he's this sweet old man who has his granddaughter bouncing on his knee and stuff.

NRAMA: Does his family know that he's the Destroyer? And do the villains know how old he is?

RK: His family knows. And there are a few villains out there that know who he is, which is part of the problems he's had over the years. But for the most part, his identity isn't known. He works for the government. So as far as his neighbors and what-not are concerned, he just works for the government. But every now and then, if a helicopter lands in his back yard, they just assume that something's going on with the military.

NRAMA: Has he always been a hero who kills? Or has he not killed up until this point?

RK: He's not opposed to killing, but if he can take a guy in he'll take a guy in. He's not a murderer, but if he needs to kill someone, he's a pretty violent killer. He was a soldier in World War II, so he's pretty much operating on the same mindset as a soldier would. If he's got to kill, he'll kill. But if he can take prisoners, he will. Not exactly a cold-blooded, murdering son of a bitch, but he's not afraid to get his hands dirty like some other superheroes.



NRAMA: It sounds like it's got to be fun just letting loose like that with a character.

RK: It's my favorite thing I've ever done at Marvel.

NRAMA: Is it really?

RK: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By far. I'm really exciting to do it. It's a lot of fun getting to work with Cory. I get to create pretty much an entire continuity. I get to play with it all by myself, so that's pretty cool.

The Irredeemable Ant-Man was probably my most well-received book I've done at Marvel. And that pretty close to an Image project as far as freedom and things go.

NRAMA: You mean getting away with murder! There didn't seem to be a limit to what Ant-Man would do.

RK: [laughs] Yeah. Being able to do whatever I wanted to do with the character, and getting my hands dirty and really having fun with it.

Destroyer, I think, is the next step past Ant-Man. It's almost exactly like doing an Image book. And that's pretty cool.

Return to the New York Comic Con 2008 mini-site...

[bebopeva88]

Sounds great -- really looking forward to this!

[Shonborn]

This looks cool.

[SerbsInSpace]

As I said to Kirkman in an email, Destroyer's gay, which makes the family man comments very problematic.
It's rather complicated, and there are two Destroyer characters. First is 1941 character Keene Marlow. In Silver Age, he was retconned into Brian Falsworth, son of the original Union Jack. Brian Falsworth was friend and lover of Roger Aubrey the Dyna-Mite, the 1977 creation. Eventually Roger Aubrey Dyna-Mite became Destroyer and Brian Falsworth Destroyer became Union Jack.
Very messy continuity, with multiple retcons and identity switches, but the truth of the matter is that both Destroyers were gay, and a couple, which could cause some problems and backlash with Marvel.

[cernunnos]

Sounds good. I'll most likely get this mini.

[Stephen Day]

Originally Posted by SerbsInSpace

As I said to Kirkman in an email, Destroyer's gay, which makes the family man comments very problematic.
It's rather complicated, and there are two Destroyer characters. First is 1941 character Keene Marlow. In Silver Age, he was retconned into Brian Falsworth, son of the original Union Jack. Brian Falsworth was friend and lover of Roger Aubrey the Dyna-Mite, the 1977 creation. Eventually Roger Aubrey Dyna-Mite became Destroyer and Brian Falsworth Destroyer became Union Jack.
Very messy continuity, with multiple retcons and identity switches, but the truth of the matter is that both Destroyers were gay, and a couple, which could cause some problems and backlash with Marvel.

The Destroyer in the mainline MU is gay. This interviews makes it pretty clear that the character in this series isn't the Destroyer from the mainline MU and that it takes place in its own universe.

I don't see that this is a problem. its not like they're saying that the Destroyer from the MU is no longer gay. Its not like it isn't fairly well known that most MAX series take place in thier own continuity.

[Predabot1]

Yeah, I don't see how this could possibly be a problem either.

Dunno' if I'll pick this up tho, since I'm not really a fan of the character, but I will say this, quoting another Newsarama poster, about Golden Age characters:

"He looks like a madman... A beautiful, wonderful Madman."

[Bevbos]

____ing beautiful. I know a lot of people don't like these "retcon-y" characters (see: Sentry, Winter Soldier), but I for one love them, and I think Kirkman's a perfect fit. Best news out of NYCC for me, personally.

[ChristopherD]

Originally Posted by SerbsInSpace

As I said to Kirkman in an email, Destroyer's gay, which makes the family man comments very problematic.

SiS - this was my first thought as well. I understand that we're talking about a MAX series in which a character can be recreated (but lets be honest, they often aren't) but I just don't understand from a character point of view why Kirkman would go this route. I really liked the Destroyer character in New Invaders and think that Kirkman could have gone to town with that character so I'm just baffled about why he chose not to do so.

Giving him and editorial the benefit of the doubt, one reason may be the weird comments the Joe made at some point implying that gay characters would only have solo series in a MAX book (if I totally screwed up the gist of what he said, someone please correct me). They may have wanted to not play into that controversy by having this character be gay. I know that is a huge stretch of a rationale but it's the best I can come up with.

Just to be clear, I don't think this is some kind of homophobic move by Kirkman or Marvel (after all, didn't Kirkman do the Freedom Ring stuff?). I just don't understand, from a character perspective, why this take on the Destroyer is more interesting than the huge ball of contradiction (in the best possible way) that we saw in New Invaders.

Best,

Chris

[Gamma Duck]

Originally Posted by SerbsInSpace

As I said to Kirkman in an email, Destroyer's gay, which makes the family man comments very problematic.
It's rather complicated, and there are two Destroyer characters. First is 1941 character Keene Marlow. In Silver Age, he was retconned into Brian Falsworth, son of the original Union Jack. Brian Falsworth was friend and lover of Roger Aubrey the Dyna-Mite, the 1977 creation. Eventually Roger Aubrey Dyna-Mite became Destroyer and Brian Falsworth Destroyer became Union Jack.
Very messy continuity, with multiple retcons and identity switches, but the truth of the matter is that both Destroyers were gay, and a couple, which could cause some problems and backlash with Marvel.

So...why not just assume there were/are two guys running around out there using the Destroyer name and costume? Marlow and Falsworth? Maybe at some point Marlow rescued Falsworth from having the same procedure done to him and inspired by this, Falsworth takes up the Destroyer identity also? After all, he later becomes the second Union Jack so it's not like he doesn't have a history of taking over other peoples' identities.

And more importantly, who cares? Continuity be damned if Kirkman can deliver a good book with a character that nobody's used regularly for a decade or four.

[Stephen Day]

I think its important to point something in case there may be some confusion. There are two Marvel characters who have used the name The Destroyer.

The current MU Destroyer, the one outed as gay a few years ago, (great story by the way ) is the second character -- Roger Aubrey. The first and the version being used in this series is Marlowe Keen. Keen is not, and has never been a homosexual.

[redjb]

Originally Posted by Gamma Duck

And more importantly, who cares? Continuity be damned if Kirkman can deliver a good book with a character that nobody's used regularly for a decade or four.

Well I would care, because the character, or at least a Destroyer has been used in this decade, as a supporting character in "Thunderbolts" and "Citzen V and the V Battalian". Of coarse that was Roger Aubrey, not this guy, but when I first saw the headline and the name "Destroyer", I thought of the character I knew of. Upon learning this series is about someone else, I became less interested.

Continuity matters if you are marketing based upon an established character or concept and an existing audience attachment to it. The reason they have trouble making new characters popular is because readers have have limited time/money to buy everything, and their interest is already held by existing and familiar characters.

[SerbsInSpace]

Wikipedia:

The second Union Jack, Brian Falsworth, is the son of James Montgomery Falsworth. He first appears as the Destroyer in Invaders #18, and becomes Union Jack in Invaders #21. He was also created by Roy Thomas and Frank Robbins. His sister, Jacqueline Falsworth, is the British superheroine known as Spitfire.

Unlike Union Jack, who is a character retconned into the World War II timeline, the Destroyer actually is an original Golden Age character. The Destroyer first appeared in Mystic Comics #6 (October 1941), published by Marvel Comics' predecessor, Timely Comics.In Roy Thomas' 1970s series The Invaders, the Destroyer's Golden Age identity of Kevin "Keen" Marlow is explained away as an alias. The Destroyer is notable for being one of the first creations of industry legend Stan Lee.

Brian Falsworth is interesting as being, possibly, the first (chonological timeline speaking) homosexual Marvel Comics superhero.

A car crash in 1953 abruptly ended Brian Falsworth's career and his life.

[SerbsInSpace]

>The current MU Destroyer, the one outed as gay a few years ago, (great story by the way ) is the second character -- Roger Aubrey. The first and the version being used in this series is Marlowe Keen. Keen is not, and has never been a homosexual.
Keene is Brian Falsworth, in that there never was Keene - it was established as a pseudonym he used Golden Age. Journalist Keene was retconned into Brian Falsworth, the son of original Union Jack, who shortly thereupon took the mantle of Union Jack. He was also the lover of Roger Audrey, who replaced him as the Destroyer. Also, the man known as both Brian Falsworth the second Union Jack and Keene Marlow the original Destroyer, died in 1953.

In any event, I'm sure it will be a good mini, Kirkman is an insanely talented writer.

It's just odd that they picked up such a strange character to revive, with a very complicated history that seems more trouble than it's is worth, especially with Drax the Destroyer running around in Guardians of the Galaxy at the same time.

[Stephen Day]

Ignore - brain fart on my part.

[skl183]

As long as he kills blindly and without prejudice I'm all for it. And the guys looks a little like skrull with the pointy ears. D'oh!

[JLAJRC]

I've been loving the MAX trend of using obscure/forgotten properties and giving them new life. Destoyer will definately continue that trend.

[Zig Zag Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Gamma Duck

So...why not just assume there were/are two guys running around out there using the Destroyer name and costume? Marlow and Falsworth?

This is how the Golden Age Marvel Handbook addressed the issue a while back.

There was no reference to Marlow only being an alias.

[Lupek]

Sounds good. Looks good. Love Golden Age revivals and reimaginings.

I'll try it.

[CountD]

Although I like Kirkman, I will not be trying Destroyer max

[JacktheKnife]

Sounds kind of neat. I might check out the first issue at least.

[shifty]

I don't know much about the actual character but I've always loved the design. And a Kirkman/Walker collaboration seals the deal for me.

[zeitgeist07]

I'm already in!!!

[Pauul]

Roger Aurbrey is a great character who is still running around on Earth 616.

Having a series about Keen Marlow in no way takes away from that. There are major difference between Timely continuity and Marvel continuity. This MAX series seems to be closer to Timely continuity than the Marvel universe (oh, and for anyone who was unaware of the Golden Age Destroyer - the Keen Marlow version was also the one who showed up in the 90's Spider-man cartoon). Keen Marlow was always straight, by keeping him straight they're in no way damaging the Roger Aurbrey character. Or the Brian Falsworth character for that matter. Those two have a different set of superpowers as well. Falsworth has electrical powers while Aurbrey can alter his size. I'm gay and I'm glad they're bringing back the straight Keen Marlow version of the character. I happen to like the old Golden Age versions of these characters and I can't wait to pick this book up. Hopefully with the trend Marvel is setting with 'The Twelve', 'Invaders/Avengers' and 'Destroyer MAX' recently we'll be seeing even more Timely characters. Well done Marvel.