ELLIS: LEAVING THUNDERBOLTS WITH #121

**MattBrady** · 03-30-2008, 06:20 PM

Warren Ellis has confirmed that he will be leaving as writer on Marvel's Thunderbolts with issue #121. Christos Gage will take over the title at least for the three following issues that tie in to Secret Invasion.

At his Whitechapel messageboard, Ellis wrote:

The tenor -- and, frankly, the informedness -- of online comics conversation over the last five years has changed to the point where I probably need to explain once again why I don't stay long on company-owned works.

It's as simple as this -- if I don't own it, I'm not going to spend my life on it. Joe Quesada and Dan Buckley know that, they're fine with that, and they hire me on that understanding.

Or, if you like: you can only paint someone else's house for so long before you start thinking that it might be nice to own your own house one day.

I'm okay with painting other people's houses for short periods, because I'm good at it and it pays well and on nice days it's fun. But I never ever confuse painting a house for owning that house. And if I spent every waking hour painting other people's houses, I wouldn't be able to build houses of my own.

The more creators who only took on housepainting as a part-time gig, the healthier this medium would be.

For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.

rdrsfn82 · 03-30-2008, 06:26 PM

It sounds to me like he feels he shouldn't put forth effort on books for big companies that he would put on a creator owned book and that he thinks no one should worry about the big characters that drive the medium. That doesn't strike me as a great attitude.

Hopefully the book will get a regular schedule now that he's gone. His issues have been solid, but the delays haven't really made this book all that great and if he was staying I'd probably drop it after the SI tie ins. Now I might keep reading depending on who takes over.

ZeoVGM · 03-30-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattBrady

The more creators who only took on housepainting as a part-time gig, the healthier this medium would be.

For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.

What the hell is he even talking about?

Brubaker and Morrison are his examples of creators who do what he does?

Uh, Captain America? Batman?

jkc · 03-30-2008, 06:35 PM

Wow. rdrsfn82, Where did you get that impression?

Looks to me like Ellis recognizes that there is room in his life to do different types of work. Working for yourself is rewarding in different ways from working for big companies.

Or maybe he just hates you and the comics you love.

Also, like Ellis, Brubaker and Morrison go back and forth between mainstream and creator-owned work. What's confusing about that?

PukeStain · 03-30-2008, 06:39 PM

This sucks. I don't think I really agree with his philosophy all that much. Sure, ownership is great, but I dont' think I could ever tire of writing and using classic characters such as bullseye, venom, etc. as well as doing it so damn interestingly.

JLAJRC · 03-30-2008, 06:42 PM

That explanation from Ellis sounded rather... angry and unpleasant for some reason to me. He could have have simply said "I'm leaving to pursue creator-owned projects. I like to thank Marvel for hiring me and maybe someday I'll come back to do some more stuff for them." Instead, we get his rather lame explanation and his list of creators who "support" him.

The funny thing about that list is that while all of them may have/be doing creator-owned projects, all of them have projects at one of the big two. Especially Morrison, who practically co-owns the DCU along with Geoff Johns currently. They all got famous for doing something at Marvel/DC. They know where the money and fans are.

Derek Ruiz · 03-30-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoVGM

What the hell is he even talking about?

Brubaker and Morrison are his examples of creators who do what he does?

Uh, Captain America? Batman?

Morrison has ownership stake in lot's of stuff he's been doing at Vertigo...And Bru has the same thing with Criminal..so they do what he does.

And guys he didn't say he wasn't gonna do anymore work...He said he won't be doing long runs.

I don't agree with the way he said it but I can understand where he is coming from...But I don't know why creators can't have long runs on books and do there own thing as well.

protege · 03-30-2008, 06:54 PM

So- what will become of the Thunderbolts now? Will they continue on as they have? I lost interest in the book under Ellis' direction- too dark and depressing.

Pack · 03-30-2008, 06:59 PM

This is the reason why I yawned when I heard Ellis was taking over Astonishing X-Men. My thought was, "Oh, great, we'll get three issues in three months, in which the X-Men will become cynical, miserable, rude brats, then maybe two more issues over the next seven and then Ellis will wander off muttering about what a genius he is..."

PhoenixFacto · 03-30-2008, 07:00 PM

I wish they would continue to use Deodato on the Gage issues of Thunderbolts. He really adds a lot to the tone of the book, more than Ellis's writing in my opinion. The Gage penned Specials have been well written but don't have the same feel and thats largely related to the bright superhero-y art. Marvel please leave Deodato on the book!

CaptainCanad · 03-30-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixFacto

The Gage penned Specials have been well written but don't have the same feel and thats largely related to the bright superhero-y art.

Gage really doesn't have Ellis' dark cynical humour, either, which is fairly crucial to the tone of the book. He's more of a straight superhero writer.

I enjoy what Ellis brings to mainstream characters; I've never had as much interest in his creator-owned stuff, but obviously that's where his interest really is, so I appreciate whenever he is forced to pay the bills.

Looking forward to his run on Astonishing X-Men, which I'm sure will be short but sweet.

Kahn · 03-30-2008, 07:39 PM

Hey ego = charisma, and it's cool if you don't want to write more than 3 issues of someone else's book, but could you at least try to have them all come out in the same year?

beta-ray · 03-30-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkc

Wow. rdrsfn82, Where did you get that impression?

Looks to me like Ellis recognizes that there is room in his life to do different types of work. Working for yourself is rewarding in different ways from working for big companies.

Or maybe he just hates you and the comics you love.

Also, like Ellis, Brubaker and Morrison go back and forth between mainstream and creator-owned work. What's confusing about that?

What's confusing is that Brubaker (as an example) is exclusive to a mainstream company and has had a long run on a non-creator owned title. Yes he does his own stuff too, that's not an issue.

I'm disappointed that he won't be on Thunderbolts for much longer, but it was a fun ride. I hope Gage takes over, I really like his stuff.

roblewmac · 03-30-2008, 08:16 PM

I think ellis was good Thunderbolts. I don't think he has any magic that means the book dies when he leves.

Eagle Al · 03-30-2008, 08:25 PM

Strange statement from Warren, sounds like he woke up on the wrong side of the bed. The creators he mentioned at the end all do a lot more books for Marvel, DC or anyone else he mentioned, and a lot less creator owned stuff. If he wants a fan based reply - as much as I've enjoyed something like Brubaker's Criminal for example, I would much rather read his superb Captain America, than anything creator owned.

The sad thing is (as others have said) he does write superhero comics well. And correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he signed up for at least a year of X-Men (although I have a feeling it was mentioned that he'd be doing 24 issues somewhere).

On the flipside, apart from Scars and Black Summer, the rest of his stuff (Doktor Sleepless especially recently) from Avatar has been pretty dire on the whole.

uscwamer · 03-30-2008, 08:25 PM

Sort of off topic but with all those writers he listed..one notable guy he doesn't is Geoff Johns. If his point about these writers is their creator owned work, he brings up a nice point. I would love to see Geoff Johns do some creator owned stuff. Let's see him create a universe instead of paying homage to everything before. Please, don't think i'm dissing him, I'm loving his DC work. I'm merely saying i'd like to see something a little different and perhaps challenging to him because i think he's got his current gig down to a science.

Ace · 03-30-2008, 08:26 PM

Fine by me. I prefer Gage over Ellis anyway.

Pack · 03-30-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Al

And correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he signed up for at least a year of X-Men (although I have a feeling it was mentioned that he'd be doing 24 issues somewhere).

No matter what he signed, I will bet you $10 that 12 issues - never mind 24 - will never happen.

Ken B. · 03-30-2008, 08:31 PM

STOP WITH THE STUPID CIRCUIT CITY ADS COVERING THE SCREEN!

Ahem, pardon that.

Thunderbolts has become completely irrelevant. It was going somewhere after Civil War, but then the delays happened and no one knew what to do with them. And now we're on to the next big event and they're on the sidelines.

What I don't like about Ellis' response is that he doesn't really make up for the fact that, yeah, he can do stuff in short runs, but he drags his feet on the stuff he sees as less important. Just get your stuff done, and move on. He's trying to excuse his tardiness and it doesn't really work. It's a weird kind of excuse too

And trying to hide with the likes of Brubaker and Fraction and BKV really doesn't work. All of those writers, with the possible exception of Fraction (who still has longer runs than Ellis does but is relatively new to mainstream work) have had long runs on books they don't own.

And his analogy is weird. Yeah, you're too busy painting houses, but you're making so much money doing that you don't have to build your house, you just buy one. A big one. Claremont did that, Busiek did that, Dixon did that. Johns has like 5 houses with the work he's doing for DC. And just because it's the house you built doesn't really make it better than a house you can buy.

cookiejar · 03-30-2008, 08:38 PM

That may be the best analogy I have read by a professional in the comics biz.

I have all respect for Ellis, and I think it was great for him to come on and handle the reboot of the T-Bolts.

now that you have free time, Mr. Ellis... How about a few more issues of Desolation Jones?

BriGuy · 03-30-2008, 08:41 PM

Here's hoping Gage becomes the new regular writer!

brett123 · 03-30-2008, 08:43 PM

Just * one more* six issue arc after "Caged Angels" would have been enough for. It feels sort of incomplete for Ellis to leave after pushing so many of these characters' buttons over the course of 12 issues and then exiting stage left.

Whoever takes over the series permanently (whether it be Christos Gage or whoever) needs to keep the moody tone and unpredictable plotting style. If Thunderbolts goes back to being "Baron Zemo and His Gang of Misunderstood Outlaws", then it won't last very long.

SMARTASS8 · 03-30-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uscwamer

Sort of off topic but with all those writers he listed..one notable guy he doesn't is Geoff Johns. If his point about these writers is their creator owned work, he brings up a nice point. I would love to see Geoff Johns do some creator owned stuff. Let's see him create a universe instead of paying homage to everything before. Please, don't think i'm dissing him, I'm loving his DC work. I'm merely saying i'd like to see something a little different and perhaps challenging to him because i think he's got his current gig down to a science.

I never really thought about that. I'd be excited as hell to see Johns try creator owned superhero work! I also wouldn't mind seeing Brubaker and Slott, Marvel's best writers, do the same. Slott already dabbled with that in the hidden gem Big Max a couple years ago.

Ironhorse · 03-30-2008, 09:13 PM

It's a damm shame, but I was expecting that, so no big deal, just hope Gage take over the title, he is quite good, and deserves an ongoing "solo" in Marvel. Peace.

X-punged · 03-30-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken B.

And his analogy is weird. Yeah, you're too busy painting houses, but you're making so much money doing that you don't have to build your house, you just buy one. A big one. Claremont did that, Busiek did that, Dixon did that. Johns has like 5 houses with the work he's doing for DC. And just because it's the house you built doesn't really make it better than a house you can buy.

Of course it would also be nice if he would finish painting A house on time before he declares it's time to buy or build one, or whatever his silly analogy was implying.