MATT FRACTION ON THOR: AGES OF THUNDER

[MattBrady]

Matt Fraction has scripted many of Marvel’s hard-hitters with his tough-as-nails scripts for The Immortal Iron Fist, Punisher War Journal and The Order. Now, he gets to kick ass on a mythological scale…with an uru hammer. Yes, it’s Thor: Ages of Thunder, a look back at the God of Thunder’s greatest hits (pun intended) with artist Patrick Zircher. Fraction recently talked with us about what readers can expect from this book, and his thoughts on The Order’s end with issue #10.

Newsarama: Matt, what’s Ages of Thunder about, and how does it tie into the Thor mythos?

Matt Fraction: It's a Thor graphic novel, told in parts, that plugs the pure Stan-and-Jack interpretation of Thor and the Asgardians into the Norse myth cycle. It sort of exists outside of any current incarnation of Thor – one of my favorite things about the Norse myths is that it's cyclical; that Ragnarok has survivors and the stories begin again.

So we're using that as a motivation to look at Thor and his pantheon throughout various different eras of Ragnanroks, with various different visual interpretations. Each time they're living through these insane and colossal stories that build on top of one another, each chapter presenting us with another way of seeing Asgard as it rages towards its inevitable destruction and rebirth.

Ultimately, these stories present to us with the reasons why Odin saw fit to curse Thor with the humanity of Donald Blake, and who he becomes because of it. That's the uniting thread that, no matter what apocalypse he's skyrocketing towards, Thor had this flaw, and this ultimate redemption because of it, told in giant, divine terms. It was danced around back in Thor#159, if you want to get all continuity-guy on it; Ages of Thunder is a kind of explicit play-by-play, where Thor's lack of humility triggers all of these wonderful, horrible things.

NRAMA: So how did this project come about, and what appealed to you about working on Thor?

MF: Thor had long remained a kind of a mystery to me – I couldn't find a way into the book, as a writer. Which is just weak. As a reader, there were bits that I loved but there were far more aspects to his history as a comics character that alienated me. And-- this is mortifying and embarrassing and I'm sure they don't remember this, but I do – the first time I talked to Axel Alonso and Warren Simons about what kind of stuff I wanted to pitch at Marvel, I said that if they were looking for a Thor mini, I wasn't the guy. Just, y'know – superdicky, small-minded, all of it.

It was the fantasy aspect — real or perceived-- that I just couldn't connect with; that kept me outside of the real power of the stories and the character. Then I had my, ahh, revelation on the road to Damascus, and here we are. I've seen the light, repented, etc. Now I'm ready to smash things with hammers.

NRAMA: Yay, hammers! Now, what are some of the stories that this one-shot touches on?

MF: The reconstruction of the Asgardian wall. Loki's kidnapping of Idun, or who we're assigning Idun's role, and what happened to her apples. Sif getting her hair cut off. Drunken hijinx in an iron forge.

You know. The classics.

NRAMA: And what characters from the Asgardian mythos can readers expect to see in this story?

MF: All of 'em. I want everyone to fall in love with the world as much as I have.

NRAMA: Do you have a favorite "Thor-esque" line from this story?

MF: "Aye."

That's the line, I'm not answering in the affirmative that I have a favorite "Thor-esque" line. I'm saying, yes, I do, and that line is "Aye" and Thor says it once.

NRAMA: Understood. So, what's your collaboration with Patrick Zircher been like, and in your opinion, what does he bring to the book?

MF: Well, it's only just started and I've not seen anything he's done yet. But I can tell you this much, I'm sure he's gonna bring that epic Zircher bigness. Have you seen what this guy has been doing on Terror, Inc.? My lord.

Anyway, I'm writing this for that caliber of guy. Just giving him room to go big, to go massive, to just bring every bit of the crazy mojo that lives in his hand out and create an epic vision of Thor in his many different ages.

He will, if I may quote the Wu Tang Clan for a moment, bring the fuckin' ruckus.

NRAMA: Hardcore, brother.

Getting back to Thor, that's your favorite Norse myth, and your favorite Thor comic story?

MF: The one where Loki makes the Frost Giant's daughter laugh by tying a donkey's leash to his nutsack and letting it drag him around is maybe my favorite myth, only because it's so bawdy and inappropriate and funny and we tend to think of these myths as these stodgy, airless fables about ideas and ideals and not, y'know, written by and for people that love a good scrotum joke. Rejoice! Apparently nut humor was as much a hoot back then as it is today.

My favorite Thor issue of all time is, hands down, bar none, don't even need to think about it, Walt Simonson's Thor #362, about which the only thing I dislike is its title, "A Bat Out of Hel," because it's a punny title and I think he's a better writer than that. As evidenced by "He stood alone at Gjallerbru... and that answer is enough," which is one of those lines that gives me the same goosebumps now as it did when I first read it. The whole Simonson run is a classic, and for me, #362 is the high water mark.

Thor #160-#162, which is a big Galactus story with Ego the Living Planet and what might maybe be the most perfect Kirby art of Kirby's career — maybe? It's definitely in the running. The entire seed of the Fourth World is surely here. It's an almost perfect Marvel comic experience, and certainly a perfect Stan & Jack experience.
And then.. I guess Thor #292-#300 make up a kind of arc that starts with a giant eyeball telling Thor some stories and ends with, amongst other things, Odin putting on the Destroyer armor and, armed with The Odinsword of Asgard, fighting some ____ing Celestials. It's got that bigness thing down cold.

NRAMA: Now, Thor obviously has a huge following, but the character has had many ups and downs in his different titles over the years. What, in your opinion, is the key to a good Thor story?

MF: He should use that big-ass hammer of his to smash a lot of huge things. He should do that a lot. I mean, a lot. A lot.

And it should be colossal. There should be that moment of — oh, right. He's a god. The holy disconnect that comes from a flea considering the Chrysler Building. That's you and Thor. You're the flea. He's the Chrysler Building. Same planet, different worlds.

And his world should smash into a similarly big world, and stagger and astonish us all with its epic sweep and scope, after seducing us with its us-ness, with its recognizable and simple scale. Thor stories need the gasp of awe to steal the breath away from its very humanity.

And then, y'know. The hammer and the whatnot.

NRAMA: Looking at your other Marvel projects – The Order’s coming to an end in a few months. What can readers expect from the last few issues?

MF: Chaos. Brutality. Raw, human heroism in the face of unrelenting odds and evil. Death, an ending, hope. Rebirth? Defeat? Answer vague. Ask again later.

Also: two characters totally do it.

NRAMA: Do you have anything you'd like to say about the book's cancellation or future plans for the characters?

MF: That the book wasn't cancelled: I chose to end it. Marvel allowed me to choose to leave the stage, rather than to continue on in a state in which I felt was compromised and decidedly unawesome.

I don't think I was too clear about that on Word Balloon: it wasn't cancelled. I killed it. And if you're looking for the man that killed The Order, it was me.

Now watch, nobody's gonna read that and nobody's gonna care, because it's way more fun the other way. Oh well.

NRAMA: Okay. And to conclude – any quick words on what’s coming up for Immortal Iron Fist and Punisher War Journal?

MF: Ohh, the kicking. Ohh, Howard Chaykin

Keep reading Newsarama for an update on Fraction’s Image book, Casanova coming soon.

[callmekenny]

I'm going to miss The Order. Good to know it was ended instead of canceled.

[VinnyPic]

That looks pretty bad ass.

[DaVeO]

Still not loving that armour. Or even liking really. It just doesn't make sense construction wise. But I miss Matt the best.

[EmmasDad]

This Pleases Thor!

[durkadurka]

That sounds cool and all, but when will Thor be playing a part in the actual Marvel Universe? Secret Invasion?

[Greywing]

Looks good. I've become a pretty avid reader of Fraction's stuff lately.

[zodcomplex]

Very much looking forward to this. Fraction has become one of my must-read writers - everything he puts out is solid stuff, & the combo of him & Zircher on Thor is golden.

That's interesting about the Order's cancellation coming from Fraction - I'm wondering what events led to that decision, as I've been really enjoying that title & wasn't looking forward to it's cancellation. Skrulls, maybe?

[Blackbeard]

Sign me up. This looks fantastic!

[Corpulent1]

As a huge Thor fan, I'm glad to see him finally getting his due. It seemed like everyone had forgotten about him during Jurgens' run (which I, unlike a lot of other Thor fans, actually loved), and then he was dead for years. And not the good sort of dead where everyone remembers him and his shadow looms large, like Captain America; dead and utterly ignored by his peers except for a line or two in Avengers Finale and some righteous anger on Hercules' part. It's great to see the pendulum swing back in his favor.

Originally Posted by durkadurka

That sounds cool and all, but when will Thor be playing a part in the actual Marvel Universe? Secret Invasion?

Probably after JMS and Coipel finally manage to finish their first arc at the end of this month. I hope. That should be enough setup to allow Thor to get back into the rest of the Marvel universe. I'm dying to see him start interacting with others like the major character he ought to be. In particular, I'd love to see a meeting of Thor and Bucky.

[MrGreenGenes]

Matt Fraction: It's a Thor graphic novel, told in parts, that plugs the pure Stan-and-Jack interpretation of Thor and the Asgardians into the Norse myth cycle. It sort of exists outside of any current incarnation of Thor – one of my favorite things about the Norse myths is that it's cyclical; that Ragnarok has survivors and the stories begin again.

I'm not sure of the logic behind exploring a part of Thor's mythos (Ragnarok) that has essentially been put out to pasture. This really seems more like a Marvel Knights project. That aside, Zircher's art looks fantastic and I'll probably be getting this.

[Spidey616]

So sales had nothing to do with the Order's cancellation. Interesting. Wonder if Fraction will leave the team intact for future writers to play around with.

[Corpulent1]

Originally Posted by MrGreenGenes

I'm not sure of the logic behind exploring a part of Thor's mythos (Ragnarok) that has essentially been put out to pasture. This really seems more like a Marvel Knights project. That aside, Zircher's art looks fantastic and I'll probably be getting this.

I think it's more of an examination of what's come before for those who are just getting into Thor with the relaunch. There seem to be a lot of them, given Thor's sales numbers before his comic was canceled compared to his numbers now.

[artjunkie]

Not a big Thor guy, but, yes, the self-termination of The Order is intriguing and a downer. Although Brian K. Vaughn went through the same thing with Runaways in the beginning… maybe there’s a retooling coming down the line, though from the sounds of it, Mr. Fraction questions its overall awesomeness or potential lack thereof. Doesn’t mean it can’t be tweaked and re-launched to an all-new awesomeness. But if there's no market interest/support for a non-headliing team book (or Marvel's lack of promotion/support of such a property) then it sounds like the right decision has been made.

Also, Fraction quoting The Wu on bringin’ the mutha____in’ ruckus…that was awesome.

[C20Percent]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

MF: That the book wasn't cancelled: I chose to end it. Marvel allowed me to choose to leave the stage, rather than to continue on in a state in which I felt was compromised and decidedly unawesome.

I don't think I was too clear about that on Word Balloon: it wasn't cancelled. I killed it. And if you're looking for the man that killed The Order, it was me.

Well then: ____ You, Sir!

[Omega Flyer]

I don't think I was too clear about that on Word Balloon: it wasn't cancelled. I killed it. And if you're looking for the man that killed The Order, it was me.

Why would you betray us so Fraction?

Still, an awesome writer and great looking art means i'll definitely pick this up.

[dwf]

Originally Posted by Spidey616

So sales had nothing to do with the Order's cancellation. Interesting. Wonder if Fraction will leave the team intact for future writers to play around with.

He didn't say that. He did say:

Originally Posted by Matt Fraction

Marvel allowed me to choose to leave the stage, rather than to continue on in a state in which I felt was compromised and decidedly unawesome.

The Order wasn't selling well, and sales are the major factor in Marvel's publishing choices. This is conjecture (and anyone with knowledge of the situation correct me!), but it sounds like Marvel was pushing for a compromising and unawesome change to the title to boost sales, e.g., 'the Order needs to team up with Wolverine 3 issues out of the year.'


Casanova is great! It's the comic equivalent of eating FunDip while you're stoned!

[ejulp]

Originally Posted by Spidey616

So sales had nothing to do with the Order's cancellation. Interesting. Wonder if Fraction will leave the team intact for future writers to play around with.

I heard it had something to do with having 2 high paid Marvel exclusives on a book where the sales weren't comparable to what creators like that (in contract terms) should be paid...very much like what happened with Nextwave and Immomen.

[-Armando523-]

damn might have to check this out.
love me some mythology

[Nick MB]

Originally Posted by dwf

The Order wasn't selling well, and sales are the major factor in Marvel's publishing choices. This is conjecture (and anyone with knowledge of the situation correct me!), but it sounds like Marvel was pushing for a compromising and unawesome change to the title to boost sales, e.g., 'the Order needs to team up with Wolverine 3 issues out of the year.'

From Kitson's interview yesterday, it sounds more like the Order wasn't selling enough for Marvel to justify leaving Barry Kitson (whom they paid a lot of money to get exclusive) on the book, and Fraction decided to end it rather than get a new artist.

Pretty much the same thing happened with Nextwave and Stuart Immonen.

[I am MODOK]

Sold!

It does suck about the Order though. Hopefully Fraction is working on a new book to take its spot on my sublist.

[artjunkie]

Originally Posted by ejulp

I heard it had something to do with having 2 high paid Marvel exclusives on a book where the sales weren't comparable to what creators like that (in contract terms) should be paid...very much like what happened with Nextwave and Immomen.

And Whilce Portacio on Wetworks at DC/WildStorm.

Heh, and really, Jim Lee on anything WildStorm.

Crock o' shite, really. But makes dollars and sense when it's a situation of what makes business sense vs what makes artistic sense. I don't care how strong the industry is compared to the dog days of the late 90s/early 2000s...it's still a weak market if marginal titles like Nextwave and The Order get the axe...or a guy like Portacio can't play with his on toys on a--here's the rub--work-for-hire basis.

Well, that, or the big cheese needs to stop fooling themselves (well, fooling fans) into thinking that they should be publishing marginal titles when all they do is get pissy and jump the gun if they don't break $30000 sales consistently in the first 6 months of launch. The Catch-22 of exclusive contracts and publshing with the big two...especially when bringing your own toys to the playground. I don't care if Marvel does own The Order and its charcters, Fraction created it practically from whole cloth (as did Vaughn with Runaways) to co-exist within the Marvel U. He should be allowed to guide that new property in its infancy, despite having a big exclusive contract with certain provisions in it.

[stasisbal]

Killed The Order? Murderer! As much as I was enjoying it, probably best that it just run its course. More things should do that.

That art looks insanely great.

[EmeraldGuy32]

Holy Crap this sounds amazing.

[Punchy]

Damn you Fraction!

You're making me buy Thor!