BACK WITH A FLASH: JOHNS & KOLINS TALK FLASH: ROGUE'S REVENGE

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

There was a time when Flash's adversarial relationship with his Rogues was tempered by a level of respect.

Back when writer Geoff Johns and penciler Scott Kolins worked on The Flash title together in 2001-2003, one of the strengths of their run was how well they defined the Rogues and their sometimes strict moral code. Sure, these guys were dirty crooks, but the band of colorfully costumed thieves had a type of structure, including an oft-spoken rule against killing speedsters.

That all changed when the Rogues killed a new, young Flash named Bart Allen in June 2007. Tricked by a young villainous speedster named Inertia, the Rogues broke their own rule against killing "capes." And over the course of the next year, they found themselves embroiled in conflict and banished as shown in Salvation Run, just as a more familiar Flash, Wally West, returned to his role as the scarlet speedster.

But a year after the death of Bart Allen - in June 2008, Johns and Kolins will reunite and return to the Flash and his Rogues gallery in a six-issue mini-series titled The Flash: Rogues Revenge. Starring Flash and the Rogues, led by their bossy old leader Captain Cold, the story will also involve a reformed Pied Piper (on the heels of his Countdown story) and a villainous Zoom with his own agenda.

And as Newsarama talked to the two creators about the story they'll be telling in this new Flash comic, we found out this mini-series isn’t just an examination of the Rogues after their stint in Salvation Run, but it’s a precursor for big things to come in the Flash universe.

Newsarama: How did this project come about? Did you guys come up with the idea for this, or was it something DC conceived and offered to you?

Scott Kolins: From my vantage, this was something that Geoff talked about before our entire tenure on Flash ended as a team. Geoff had talked about doing stuff like this with the Rogues way early on. He wanted to strengthen and reorganize and in some ways even rebuild the Rogues. Stories like this were in mind since that time.

Geoff Johns: Way back when Scott and I were still on The Flash I got a call from Dan Didio when he first started. I had met him when I was working at [director Richard] Donner’s and he was at Mainframe very briefly. He remembered me as the kid bringing in my Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E.’s comics! [laughs] But he called me and reintroduced himself and we talked about DC and the Flash and what we were doing. He was incredibly supportive, and I immediately connected creatively with him. We talked about the Flash Rogues and Dan went on about how he always loved them. They were a massive part of why he read the Flash way back when, and it was the same for me. They were nearly a supporting cast of the Flash, and a great one. I was building to our “Blitz” storyline that introduced Zoom and I got a ton of ideas out of our conversation.

Since we’re going back years, a sidebar for a lot of you Spoilers fans – early on when I started talking with Dan about Flash, I remember him bemoaning the fact that they were planning on “killing” Spoiler, one of his, yes, favorite characters. Dan had just started and wasn’t the E-I-C yet and had no control over the Bat universe. He still misses Spoiler.

Anyway, the Rogues were obviously a big part of our book. But this series at the same time, this is a Flash story. It's as much a Flash story as a Rogues story. It deals with a lot of the ramifications of what's going on in the DC Universe, the fallout of the death of Bart Allen, and how it affects the Flash universe.

Scott and I had such a fun time working on our run, rebuilding the Rogues and Zoom and everything else. It’s good to be back with Cold and the gang again.

SK: The Flash is, in some ways, defined by his villains – how impressive and intelligent and formidable they are. That was always a focus of our run.

GJ: We're hoping The Flash: Rogues Revenge is not only for people who read our Flash run and want to come back and read more, but also for people who just want to learn more about these characters, especially with everything that has been happening with them in the DCU this year. We want to make it something that can be entry level.

NRAMA: Can you tell us the premise of the story we'll be reading in this mini-series?

GJ: Yeah. The premise is that Captain Cold and the Rogues are pissed that this kid, Inertia, made them look like complete idiots and kind of tricked them into killing the Flash. They didn't really think they were going to kill the Flash. They've always had a vendetta against the Flash, and they’d beat this new one down, but for them to actually succeed and kill a new Flash would’ve been a giant mistake in their eyes. In Captain Cold's eyes especially. All this heat came down on them. None of these villains from when they joined all these stupid secret societies backed them up when all this heat came down on them. So they're pissed. So they really are the rogues among the rogues. They're the group that are their own little band of brothers. And right now, Cold's attitude is, right now, we made a major mistake. We got duped like a bunch of rookies!

NRAMA: The past couple weeks, I just re-read your run on The Flash, and Cold specifically says he doesn't kill cops, and he doesn't kill capes, and he rarely kills at all. So this really broke the rules for him.

GJ: Well, Rule No. 1 for us was always "Rogues don't kill speedsters."

SK: Yep. I mean, the craziest thing to do is for a villain to actually kill a hero because he knows he's going to be public enemy No. 1.

NRAMA: A lot of readers will remember that Cold even said to send flowers when Sue Dibny was killed. He knew it was wrong to get involved in that kind of killing.

GJ: Yeah, these guys are really blue collar criminals. Sure, they're jerks and they kill people and do really bad things. But in the context of it, they know that killing Flash or killing a speedster isn't the kind of heat they want. They can deal with Flash. Cold sees him as just an annoyance (this new kid is still not as tough as the first Flash they fought!). And Flash sees the Rogues as – they're never going to rule the world. They're going to hurt people and steal from people and need to be dealt with. And the fact that they went over the edge and helped kill Bart Allen, that becomes Wally West's main focus as soon as they're out on the loose again.

SK: The death of Bart Allen changes the game and makes it more personal. These Rogues, for the most part, just wanted to have fun. They want to steal some money; they want to go somewhere and spend it. They don't want to necessarily get embroiled in a war.

GJ: But over the years, they have. They’ve been lured into these super-villain societies. Into working with Inertia and Abra Kadabra – who they’ve always despised. They got tossed to some freaking prison world. They’re sick of it.

When we pick the Rogues up in The Flash: Rogues Revenge, the Rogues have been through this hellish year, and the story, really, is them going, "We're going underground. Screw secret societies. Screw Lex Luthor. Screw the Joker. We're done with this stuff." And then, they hear Inertia's on the loose. And Cold says, "Well, you know what guys? Before we go underground, we have to do one more thing. We're going to break that first rule one more time."

NRAMA: The rule to kill speedsters, because Inertia's a speedster.

GJ: Yep. I mean, according to Cold, it’s only right.

NRAMA: I know in the issue that the two of you did that focused on Captain Cold, Flash #182, Cold specifically says that he only kills sometimes, under two sets of circumstances: "1) If it's kill or be killed, or 2) If I'm after good old-fashioned vengeance." I take it this time, as he goes after Inertia, it's good old-fashioned vengeance?

GJ: Yes, it is.

SK: Hence the title!

GJ: Yeah, it's called Rogues Revenge. But it's about revenge on a couple levels. Although Cold blames himself and the Rogues for a lot of the decisions made, it's mostly about the Rogues wanting revenge on this bratty kid who made them look like idiots and almost destroyed their lives. It's Flash getting caught in the middle of that.

NRAMA: OK, let's talk about you two getting to work on the Flash again. Let's start with Scott. How does it feel getting to draw the Flash again, because it's been awhile, hasn't it?

SK: It has been awhile, I guess, officially. But the fun thing is, with the fans through the years, it's kind of like I never left. Because every time I go to conventions, I would say at least 50 percent of my signing books and doing sketches have been of the Flash and his villains. So I've actually still been drawing the Flash all these years, even though I've been away. I can’t wait to get back into telling Flash stories and drawing panels. It's going to be great. The sketches I've been doing so far and the roughs for the covers for this series bring me right back to how fun and easy the Flash is for me. That's one thing that's always been true about the Flash for me. I had done one fill-in Flash issue before Geoff and I had our run, but I remarked to friends at the time how it was one of those things where it just worked. It felt right. Sometimes you'll draw something and it will take you pages or months to feel comfortable with what you're drawing. But for the most part – I mean, there were things that I tweaked, and I grew as the run went along – but Flash was something that always felt comfortable. That was something I never expected. I always loved the Flash, but I never thought I would connect so strongly with this book or have such a good time on it. So it was one of those things I fell into. And coming back to that familiar feeling is great. I'm really enjoying it.

NRAMA: And Geoff, are you pretty excited to write Wally West again?

GJ: Oh, yeah, I'm really happy to get back to the Flash universe. I made it clear when I was working on the book, and Scott knows it: Flash is my favorite hero. The Flash is my favorite and everybody in this universe. And it's great to get back to working on it. It's kind of fun, familiar territory, but I think at the same time, what we're going to end up doing is really big stuff. A lot has happened to it since we’ve been gone and playing off of that is great. That’s why the DC Universe is such a fantastic place, a shared place, of building and growing.

NRAMA: Obviously, Flash's circumstances have changed quite a bit since you guys were on the title. Has the way you've approached writing or drawing him changed as a result, or are you getting back to the basics of the character?

GJ: For me, he's the same character, but I think he's going to be a little more aggressive against the Rogues. Obviously, they helped kill Bart Allen. Whether they were solely responsible or not, they helped pull the trigger. And so he's not going to be pulling punches this time around. He's going to be thinking, "Are you here to kill me now?"

SK: Yeah, I think there's bound to be some real strong emotional content with Wally in this situation because – I don't know how much has actually been dealt with in the issues or not, but even if he's gone through a grieving process, he's going to be upset again. Dealing with the Rogues is going to bring up emotions he has about Bart’s murder.

NRAMA: But even outside the death of Bart, Wally has a family now and has been through Infinite Crisis and everything after that. Has what he's gone through since your run going to influence his motivations and his decisions?

GJ: Oh, completely. Yes. Before, Wally would have some banter with the Rogues. Now he's going to be like, what are you doing here now? Are you after my kids? You already killed one kid. Are you after mine now? And the Rogues are like, "Whoa! No, no, no!" And really, it is at that point where the Rogues know, the Flash is going to come after us hard. Of course, he's going to come after us hard. The supervillain societies that exist are moronic and aren't going to come help us. They didn’t last time. We're out of here. They know what's coming, and it's really Inertia and their chance for revenge that pulls them back into the game full time. They'll do anything to get their revenge.

They have a certain code. It's the principle of the matter. Have you ever seen the movie Payback?

NRAMA: Oh yeah.

GJ: It's the principle. It's just, Cold's going to get it done because it's the right thing to do. We shouldn't have killed that kid. We shouldn't have killed that new Flash. We were partly responsible, and he thinks, in his mind, to absolve himself of that and to get rid of this no-good punk who made their lives miserable, he's going to off Inertia.

NRAMA: Let's talk about the Rogues. What is it about them that makes them so interesting for you guys? Is it the type of brotherhood they have or something about the way they look?

SK: Well, each of the characters is a good character, even in a visual sense, let alone personal or powers or any of that stuff. They're a great group together and I love the idea that they're not world beaters, but just a bunch of crooks. Each of them on their own is an interesting character to deal with. Flash actually has, I think, the second or maybe third best list of villains in the DCU. The only one who honestly beats him, hands down, is Batman. He's got the best villains, probably, in comics.

NRAMA: Geoff, would you agree with that?

GJ: Yeah. I think Batman has the best villains in comics. I think Spider-Man has some great villains. But right behind those guys is Flash. I mean, Flash has Grodd, Flash has Zoom, and Flash has Captain Cold and the rest of the Rogues. Flash has great, great villains.

NRAMA: Well, let's talk about this list of Rogues who are going to appear in the mini-series, and you guys can tell us why you think they're such good characters.

GJ: Sure!

NRAMA: Start with Cold?

SK: Obviously Cold is one of our favorites. His dynamic of the visual of the outfit and the powers is really classic. But Geoff's also given him this added dimension of being a really gruff guy with a lot of depth. I think one of the problems the Rogues have had in the past, with their appearances, is that people have treated them as kind of goofy. They think he's goofy because he's called Captain Cold or because he's got a blue parka on and that kind of stuff. But that's one of those things where you can fall into the trap of making fun of superhero comic books, either the villains or the heroes, but if you take Captain Cold as a mean son of a bitch who's not going to take lip from anybody. He’ll grab the cash, freeze people and run off. Then he can be really entertaining.

GJ: I think Cold is underestimated. And I think he likes to be underestimated. You know, if anyone calls him Mr. Freeze, his reaction is that he'll either laugh it off, saying what a psychotic, love-sick nut that guy is, or he'll get angry because he had a bad day and he'll freeze the guy who said it. And that's Captain Cold. I think all the Rogues are much more formidable than anyone gives them credit for, and that's what Scott and I showed during our Flash run, and that's what we want to get back to.

NRAMA: Mirror Master?

SK: I actually got to appreciate Mirror Master a lot better as the series went on and I was working on him. He wasn't my favorite. I tried to convince Geoff that we should give him a new costume, but Geoff really loved that old costume.

GJ: Yeah, I just think the Rogues have such classic looks. And Mirror Master is almost the most powerful and manipulative of all the Rogues, you know? I loved how, in our Flash run, he'd appear anywhere.

NRAMA: Yeah, he'd be in the background of a panel, and the characters wouldn't even notice him sometimes, watching them.

GJ: It was creepy! We tried really hard to just make him a presence. He's the guy who helps the Rogues travel. He's everywhere at once. He's slippery. And he's also got – and you saw it in Animal Man by Grant Morrison when he was first introduced – he's got a kind of moral code hidden behind his rough exterior as well. But I think he's much more lethal. He's much more apt to use lethal force than Captain Cold is. He gets there a lot quicker, and he enjoys it a little bit more. He also had a drug problem. Cold’s #2 rule is don’t do drugs. While some people complained we had a Rogue doing drugs, we actually won a Prism Award for drug awareness for issues #212 and #213 for that.

NRAMA: More rules! OK, Weather Wizard?

GJ: Weather Wizard actually, Scott and I love him, but he was the one guy we didn't explore as much as the others, and I think that's because we didn't give him his own issue.

SK: We sort of did with the “Birthright” storyline. That's when I really learned to love him. But when we revamped him a little bit and played him out in that story and got into him, I think he's one of the best Rogues out there. He's also one of the most powerful. I mean, he wasn’t making little tornado’s anymore – he made a real tornado that was picking up trucks and doing major damage!

GJ: Yeah, I remember when we re-introduced him in that storyline, and I think it was the first time in a long time that people stopped and said, "Wow, he's pretty damned powerful. That's Flash, and if he's in the fog, he can't run anywhere. If he hits someone, they're dead." Weather Wizard can stop him in his tracks.

NRAMA: Right. I don't know how many times I've had arguments with people who ask, how can anyone stop a speedster? Because when you read about the Rogues, the way you guys showed them during your run, they have powers you don't realize are actually anti-speedster. An example is how Captain Cold isn't just making ice like you would think at first glance; he's actually working on a molecular level and trying to slow things down. That's what his power is all about.

GJ: He was always the man of absolute zero, which means no molecular movement. That means the atoms themselves aren't moving at all, because when things get cold or hot it's because the molecules are moving faster or slower. And the slower they move, the colder things are.

NRAMA: So it's all about slowing things down, which is such a perfect power to use against a speedster, just like the fog being used against Flash and making his power pretty worthless. Who else is in the book? Heat Wave?

GJ: And Heat Wave is the most mentally disturbed, I think. And Scott never got the chance to do Heat Wave, did you, Scott?

SK: Nope.

GJ: Because we brought him into the book after you left. But fire's his thing. You know, it's what he does and it's his signature. And really, it's because he's a pyromaniac. He always has been, and he knows he's sick. And he's learned to accept and live with it.

SK: Yet, inside him is at least this kernel of a good guy, because he's gone good a couple times, hasn't he?

GJ: Yeah, he's tried to go good. He's tried to fight the disease that's in him.

SK: That adds to the imbalance in him. It shows the imbalance of switching back and forth.

GJ: Yeah. All the Rogues have a moral code that goes back and forth. All of them have morals, even if they're completely twisted sometimes. Like Cold can justify killing a guy who killed his sister by throwing him off the top of a building onto 10-foot ice spikes. That's justified to Captain Cold. That's right. That's morally acceptable because the guy killed his sister. Everybody has a moral side like that. Heat Wave is no exception. If he happens to unleash fire upon a building and eight people are burned to death, well, he tried. At least he didn't set the next building on fire, so he did pretty good that night. That's acceptable to him.

SK: You know, when we talk about morals, I want to ask you, Geoff: Does the shortest member of the Rogues have morals? [laughs]

GJ: Yeah, [laughs] the one character that doesn't have morals is this new Trickster that Scott and I introduced back in Flash. His name is Axel Walker. And the last time Axel appeared, the Trickster beat the hell out him, threw him in a dumpster and said, "I see you again, wearing that costume, I'll kill you." So the kid high-tailed it out of there and did his own thing. And now that he finds out the original Trickster is dead, he's back. He's put the costume back on. And he thinks he's hot stuff.

SK: And he causes mayhem. [laughs]

GJ: Yeah, he's the guy the Rogues don't want around. He shows up and he says, "OK, I'm back with the old gang." And they're not particularly happy about it. Because he's also the most dangerous in a weird way. He has no morals whatsoever. He doesn't hesitate doing anything. He's scary. He's a wild kid. Old generation and new generation.

Those are our main Rogues. Beyond Wally West, those are the main characters in the story.

NRAMA: But Pied Piper is in there as well, right?

GJ: Yeah. Piper had no business being anywhere near the death scene of Bart Allen. And he's going to have to face that with Wally West and the Rogues and sort that out in his own head. But he's there to help Wally take them down once and for all. When he hears the Rogues are back and they're on the prowl, he's hot on their trail. And it's a matter of whether Wally will want to work with this character and do this or not. There's a lot of animosity between Flash and Piper. They've changed. They used to be good friends. And Piper's not a bad guy. He's a good guy. And we'll explore his abilities and powers and what he's gone through over the last year as well.

SK: Piper changed dramatically while I was working on him because before I worked on the run with Geoff on the Flash, I had known of Piper, and he was my least favorite out of all the Rogues in the book. Not only had he kind of switched sides and become a good guy, but his costume and the way he was treated and everything were usually pretty silly. But the way that Geoff wanted to write him, we started with all the dramatic stuff and killed his parents, and all these changes going on with his life ... and then, Geoff was the one – I don't know if everybody knows this or not – but Geoff was the one who came up with his current costume. Which also completely changes, for me, how to feel about and deal with Piper. You know, how clothes make the man? This new outfit is cool!

GJ: Yeah, I like it. I remember I drew it and faxed it to Scott, I think.

SK: I still have the fax!

GJ: You should share it.

SK: I will…

NRAMA: Here, we’ll show it! And Geoff, getting back to what you said about exploring what has happened in the last year, is Piper going to have a different role in the DCU as the result of Countdown, or will there be any significant changes with the character?

GJ: Yes. Piper is one of my favorite characters in the Flash universe. He's been through a lot. He's kind of coming from a confused place. He's actually coming into this with a specific mission. Piper will have kind of a renewed sense that he needs to accomplish something. Essentially, Piper discovers that James Jesse was planning on taking down the Rogues once and for all. That was his last thing he was going to do. You know, he worked for the FBI. And Piper picks up those papers and picks up those plans, and he says, "I'm going to do this for James. I'm going to take them down once and for all."

SK: Man, that's cool.

NRAMA: More revenge! And now let's talk about Zoom. He's not usually teamed up with the Rogues, but he's in this story as well, right?

GJ: We already have this tense story and all these things set up with the Rogues on the hunt for Inertia, and Wally on the hunt for the Rogues, and all of the sudden Zoom is going to get mixed up in the middle of it. And I don't want to say anything more about what he's doing.

SK: His own agenda is pretty interesting. He will definitely turn this story on its ear.

NRAMA: So Piper's got one agenda, and the Rogues have another, and Flash has another, and then Zoom comes along... man, there's a lot going on in this mini-series.

GJ: There is a lot going on, but there's a lot going on in the Flash universe, and a lot of the big things happening in the DCU universe involving Flash haven't been touched on in the Flash book, so this gives us the opportunity to do that – to come in here and use all the Rogues and see what has happened to everybody and put it into story context and explore how they're going to respond to each other now that they're together in one big story again.

SK: And you know, "a lot of stuff going on" was one of the strengths that I think Geoff and I brought to the Flash during our run. Even when we started “Blood Will Run,” we were kind of cracking up between the two of us about how many new plot twists and how many new characters we were bringing in to the book. And all these different things were going on. Despite the density of all that going on, I think we were able to still make it understandable. It doesn't matter how big the book gets, whether there are all kinds of Rogues attacking or you just have a million people from Keystone running through the streets with their wrenches and pipes, we still made it a clear, strong story. And Geoff is always that way when we're working on stuff. There are always six or seven layers of the story, and it just makes it a more meaty book that you can read over and over again.

NRAMA: Ok, Geoff, your favorite Rogue? Do we even have to ask?

GJ: Captain Cold, without a question.

NRAMA: [laughs] So predictable. Why him?

GJ: I used him a lot in the run. He was in my very first Flash issue; he was on the last page. I've always just loved the character. I love the visual. And I love the idea of a blue collar criminal like Cold who has this weird moral code and you can't quite figure it out, and who doesn't want to rule the world, and who doesn't want to go around killing people either. And he's not just a bank robber. He's a lot smarter than that. And I always looked at the Rogues and thought that they all had potential. Captain Cold's abilities just slow down the atoms of everything. I'm attracted to a character like that who is this rough, tough Lee Marvin type and yet has this really cool power. I think I fell in love with him right from when Scott and I did that spotlight issue on him. I really grabbed onto him then. It probably also helped that the first Flash comic I ever read was an old copy of The Flash #193 in my grandma’s attic. He was front and center on the cover.

NRAMA: Scott, how about you? Favorite Rogue?

SK: That's a complex question for me because my favorite Flash villain is Grodd, but he's not a "Rogue," since the Rogues are technically that tight-knit group. I guess it would probably be Cold. He's the next really stand-out one. I like them all. Weather Wizard, and I really like the new Trickster. He adds something to the mix. But there's just something about Cold. You wind up with the -- at this point -- classic set-up of the villain and the hero, and that works together so well. Cold just fits the bill from top to bottom for a Flash book. I like his attitude as a villain. It's not the typical stuff, and yet in some ways it's really old-school. Even through modern eyes, it takes on a whole new flavor. And his costume is awesome. He's just an old bastard [laughs], and that's a lot of fun.

NRAMA: Scott, after your Marvel exclusive, you've worked on some other things for DC, including Countdown, but was this the project that got you to come back to DC Comics? Was the chance to work with Geoff again on Flash and the Rogues what made you DC exclusive again?

SK: Well, the main thing was working with Geoff again. That was the key to it being the right time to come back. We had talked before about something like this happening, and then at San Diego Con, we chatted for a couple hours – he told me what he was working on and I told him what I was working on ... that kind of thing. And I think it was Saturday night, he gave me a call and told me how, in chatting with the DC guys, they had started to plan out this Rogues Revenge story.

GJ: I don’t think Marvel ever quite “got” what Scott does. DC and Dan, [editor] Joey [Cavalieri] and [art director Mark] “Chi” [Chiarello] do. Dan was really excited to get Scott back.

SK: Geoff said, "Come on over now. Now is a great time. We can do this book and start having lots of fun, and there’s some other stuff in the works." So, yeah, the Rogues Revenge and working with Geoff was the real impetus for me come on back now.

NRAMA: So Geoff, it sounds like you were talking to DC and knew this was coming. Why approach Scott Kolins specifically about doing it?

GJ: Well, I was just starting out in the business when Scott and I started working together on Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. Scott and I just had a really great working relationship from the beginning. And when we first got Flash, he was in Oakland, and I flew up to Oakland and we spent a weekend together just mapping out Keystone City and talking about the universe, and we just clicked. The whole way through Flash, we had a great working relationship. We loved working on these characters together. And I have been talking about doing more Flash stories with Scott since he left. Scott brings such a talent to this book.

One of the interesting things about Scott was that he really wanted to Gorilla Grodd. And they had just done him in JLA, which I thought really...

SK: I just always wanted to do Gorilla Grodd. I wanted to make him cool.

GJ: Yeah, and everyone told us "No Grodd. He's too goofy." Everyone said he was too goofy. And I said, "Scott, he's too cartoony." And Scott said, "Do something different with him."

SK: No, we both knew what to do. We were screaming up and down about how he should be. Mean!!! Vicious!!! A real monster.

GJ: Yeah, we were like, he's a gorilla! He's a gorilla with mental powers!

NRAMA: You guys made him so scary! When he was breaking out of that prison transfer truck, and then later when he broke out of Iron Heights, he was anything but goofy. He was frightening.

SK: Geoff knocked it out of the park! I read the script and was like, "Perfect! That's exactly what I wanted to do!" I love, love, love monsters!

GJ: And there was this script that was literally, "Grodd breaks out on Page 2. And Flash has to stop him." And at the end of it, there was this big double-page spread where I remember writing: "Double-page spread of the entire city. You can see the trail of destruction of Grodd like a scar across Keystone City." This is how powerful Grodd is. It's just one little escape and he does all this damage.

SK: He reminds us all. [laughs]

GJ: Yeah, he reminds us all! [laughs] There was a line in there like, "You forget how powerful Grodd is, and he reminds us all." And Scott drew that issue so well and I got those pages and started freaking out. And I said, "Scott, you can draw great destruction!" And he goes, "Yeah. It was fun." And so, from there on out, I would just throw everything I had at him because I realized, this guy can not only do the great talking scenes between our cops and our supporting cast... you know, I really liked our supporting cast on Flash, especially the cops.

NRAMA: Are they going to show up in this mini-series? The two detectives?

GJ: Yeah!

SK: They're going to be back!

GJ: Fred Chyre and Jared Morillo. They'll be back. And Scott could do those scenes so well, with the character stuff, but he could also do these big battles that were just really intense and exciting. And he could make characters scary. Grodd was scary.

NRAMA: Will Grodd show up in this mini-series at all?

SK: God, I wish he would. [laughs]

NRAMA: Awww.... [laughs]

GJ: We'll see what happens!

NRAMA: Oh, there's hope for Grodd?

GJ: We'll see what happens.

SK: If we don't do him here, we'll put him in something else.

NRAMA: We're going to hold you to that. Now, is this storyline going to cross over at all with the regular Flash series, or is it really standing on its own?

GJ: No, it's going to deal with some of the stuff going on in The Flash, but it's really more about setting the stage for the next step in the Flash universe.

NRAMA: Yeah, I had a little trouble finding out from upcoming series writer Tom Peyer what that "next step" was. So this mini-series helps set things up for what's coming in the future of the Flash?

GJ: A lot of things that are going to happen in this are going to affect the Flash universe in the future. There are just a lot of things that will happen in this book, in terms of character development and other things. The goal really is just to come back and introduce these villains and gear everyone up for what's going on with The Flash.

NRAMA: There have certainly been a lot of hints from Dan Didio that Bart Allen might return, so as long as we're talking "big things," I have to aSK: Any chance that Bart Allen's return would play a part in this mini-series?

GJ: The fallout of his death is a huge piece of our story.

NRAMA: OK, let's talk about something that’s been a little hinted at by you before, Geoff. When you and I had talked – I think it was in the interview you did with Brad Meltzer at the end of the Lightning Saga – you specifically pointed out that the Rogues don't do drugs: "Cold's #2 rule," you said, because they had just appeared in another comic doing drugs and partying.

GJ: Well, Cold's #2 rule is Rogues don't do drugs. The Rogues don't just sit around and drink beer and snort coke.

NRAMA: I understand, but that begs the question: Is part of your motivation for doing this mini-series to right the wrongs that you think have been done to these characters in other hands? After all the fingers that have been touching these characters, maybe you wanted to get your hands back on them and fix things?

GJ: Actually, all the things the Rogues have gone through make this an even better story! I’m thrilled they’ve stayed in the spotlight. With all that’s happened, I think the Rogues have had a hard year. And seeing them try and recover from that is going to be great fun.

NRAMA: And get them back on track, so to speak?

GJ: Get themselves back on track. It’s all story driven. I think the lack of Cold giving them direction in the story is why they've ended up where they are. Cold's going to take a lot of the responsibility for that himself. They never liked speedsters. Since they first appeared, they've never liked speedsters. They've never liked Zoom. They never liked Professor Zoom, really. They never liked Flash. So teaming up with a speedster and killing Bart Allen, to me, it went against everything that Cold would ever do. So this is dealing with why they did it.

NRAMA: So you're going to explore their motivations, both during this past year and going forward?

GJ: Sure, and we're going to show a lot more backstory. We'll look at their personal lives and everything else. It's a Flash book, but it's a Rogues book too.

NRAMA: And for both of you, it's inevitable that some people will interpret this as, "Oh, look. They're going back to the 'old.'" And in light, in particular, of Mark Waid's recent return to the character and his efforts to do something completely new, seeming to avoid returning to the "old," how would you respond to people who are questioning your return now?

GJ: You know what? And Scott, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing that's "old," and I hate that term, "old," because it's meaningless. These characters have been around a long time. And that's OK. It's OK for these characters to be around. The only thing "old" about it is that we're using the characters that we love. We're using the characters we helped re-establish. Everything else is new. The story's new. The direction's new. Where we're taking the universe is new. Where the Rogues go is new. We're not just reverting to status quo, if that's the question.

SK: You know, the thing I'm enjoying about this as I get more into sketching and get into this again is that there was deliberate talk at the time when I had decided to move on from the Flash book, asking me if now is the right time, because we were having such a great time. And at the time, when Zoom was first around, we were doing the best and selling the best we had ever done before. So I left when our team was at the peak of our game. I know Geoff and subsequent teams did great stuff after I was gone off the Flash book. But in a way, this is fun because we get to show not only why we were a great team before, but I think to take it even further and say: "Yeah, we were good then, but we're even better now!"

GJ: Exactly. I feel like I'm a better writer than I was. Scott and I haven't worked together for years and years. And I feel like I'm a better writer now. I hope I am five years from now too.

NRAMA: You’re going to do it bigger and better?

GJ: Yeah. Bigger and better. That's what our goal is.

SK: Definitely.

GJ: We want this to stand alongside our Rogue stories, but we want it to be even better. And if it's not one of the best Rogue stories we’ve done, we're not doing our job.

SK: Oh, we're going for it with this one. There's no doubt.

[KoozyK]

HOLY $H!T !!!!!!!

my jaw just hit the floor.
if this happens, my month was just made. that's right, MONTH!

[Bfujioka]

Great news! I'm really looking forward to this one!

[Muppety Odin]

Saweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!

[Michael Mayket]

I'm there.

[pete_woods]

Aw, now that is just too cool.

[Nepthys]

awesome! i loooove Piper's new costume!

geoff and scott's excitement is palpable! i'm definitely on board!

soo looking forward to this!

[Ret]

Oh my........this will be amazing.

[Ken B.]

Nice long interview.

Although, come on, Inertia is still in the Flash Museum suspended in time. Just og freeze him and that's it. 5 page back up in one issue and gets the job done.

I do hope a rogue or Inertia bites the bullet. I know it's a superhero universe, but the lack of punishment for what they did was a slap on the wrist. And Salvation Run is turning into more of a "let's kill off D-listers to make it seem like something important is going on." It's been a disappointment.

And it would be really nice to see this come out bi-weekly. A Flash mini that comes out fast, think of the marketing!

[worldsfinest]

I'm curious to know when the Lightning saga is going to be dealt with if its Flash related.

[Grievous]

bleeding awesome,

i have geoff's 64 issue run of the Flash at home,

zoom still needs to get revenge on grodd for breaking his back when he was hunter zolomon!!!

Can't wait

[Dragavon]

Johns & Kolins on the Flash, so there (again)!

[theodoros]

Please tell me there is an inker! Kolins needs an inker. Please tell me he works with an inker. I don't like his art that way, and he deserves better.

[Jake1823]

Originally Posted by Geoff Johns

Since we’re going back years, a sidebar for a lot of you Spoilers fans – early on when I started talking with Dan about Flash, I remember him bemoaning the fact that they were planning on “killing” Spoiler, one of his, yes, favorite characters. Dan had just started and wasn’t the E-I-C yet and had no control over the Bat universe. He still misses Spoiler.

Interesting...

[Rich L]

Great, great news!

And wow, that was a long interview. Seemed to go in circles at some points but still entertaining.

[King of Town]

Awesome awesome awesome! I love the flash! I have been reading since the start of Waid's run way back when, and continue to the present day. Even though this is a mini outside of the regular title, Johns + Kolins + Flash Rogues = Totally Awesome!

The stories that Johns did when he was writing the regular flash title that were single issue stories focusing on just one of the rogues were great, and I hope this series will be as good, if not better.

Yes!

[NYCEsq]

but this sounds exactly like what I hoped Waid would do - Can't wait...

[Moriarty]

Looks interesting.

[Marius665]

I want Johns to bring back Aztek

[SpyGuy]

Hmmm...Kid Zoom, anyone?



I can't wait for June now. It's a shame Johns and Kolins aren't back on the actual ongoing series...

[Gordon Lee]

this will be so good!

[apollox99]

I love the rogues, i dont even like the flash that much but I will pick this up because the rogues are so cool

[0bsessions]

Initially, I thought this was an idiotic premise, but after seeing it explained, I'm on board. It makes sense and I've been absolutely desperate for some enjoyable Flash since Waid came back with a whole lot of nothing.

[facepalm]

I stopped reading comics for a period right at the end of the Waid run and came back near the end of Johns run. I've read all the trades and single issues from 200+ but as i recall, there was a whole subplot with Morello being replaced by some doppelganger/shapechanger. I don't ever remember that ever being resolved. Did I miss it?

[Jake1823]

Originally Posted by SpyGuy

Hmmm...Kid Zoom, anyone?



I can't wait for June now. It's a shame Johns and Kolins aren't back on the actual ongoing series...

Isn't that Inertia?