BEST SHOTS: THE ONE MORE DAY ROUNDTABLE

[MattBrady]

The Best Shots Team on the history of the Spidey Marriage and a review roundtable
History by Lucas Siegel; Roundtable by J. Caleb Mozzocco, Kevin Huxford, Lucas Siegel, Richard Renteria, and Troy Brownfield

spoilers for "One More Day" ahead

The Spider-Marriage: A History and some Commentary by Lucas Siegel

“The years we’ve lost, Peter… The years we’ve lost to a lie.” -May Parker, Amazing Spider-Man vol 2 #38

Way back in Amazing Spider-Man #182, it was Aunt May on what was thought to be her deathbed that made Peter Parker decide to propose to Mary Jane Watson for the first time. She wanted him to settle down, plus Harry and Liz were back together, and Flash even had an extended flame. Alas, this time around, Mary Jane declined. Peter went on to date quite a few women including two that fit in his blonde motif, Felicia “Black Cat” Hardy and Deborah Whitman. It was a few years and about 100 issues when Peter proposed again. In 1987’s Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21, Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson became husband and wife under the watch of Jim Shooter, David Michelinie, and Paul Ryan.

Since then, Mary Jane has been a central character for some of Spider-Man’s stories, but not all of them, by any stretch. Two storylines are very significant. First, Mary Jane had gotten pregnant, and may or may not have had a miscarriage. That plotline led to the alternate universe known as MC2, which hosts the current title Amazing Spider-Girl featuring said baby all grown up and with her daddy’s powers. Much more recently, Mary Jane and Peter split up for an extended period of time, with MJ going to the west coast to pursue an acting/modeling career once again.

“But you’ve never been optional, MJ. Every happy thought I ever had begins and ends with you, and every unhappy thought begins with the realization that you’re not there, because I screwed up. I want to make it right, MJ, and I’ll do anything to make that happen. Anything.” -Peter Parker, Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 #44

They found themselves longing for each other, and finally got back together, through a bit of twisted fate (and a little pushing from one May Parker), in Denver. In issue #50 of ASM Vol. 2, the two finally reconciled, with MJ deciding to move back to New York to be with Peter again.

“I can do “all these things” because you believe in me. Because you give me the strength and the will to get them done. Everything’s easier when you’re there and harder when you’re not. Without you, nothing works the way it should. But when I know you’re there, in my life, I feel like I can do anything, MJ. Anything.” -Peter Parker to Mary Jane, Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 2 #50

From here, the family of three, Peter, MJ, and May, went through much together. They went through Peter’s discovery of a long, totemic link between man and spider. This led to a transformation, and Peter gaining new aspects to his Spider-powers, and new powers altogether. May and MJ moved into Avengers Tower with Peter when he joined the Avengers, and moved back out and went on the run with him when he defied the Super Human Registration Act. Before that, it was with the support of the two most important people in his life that he unmasked to the world.

May Parker has been around as long as Peter (comics time, of course). She’s been his backbone, his crutch, his support, his mother, his aunt, his friend. She’s set him up on dates, helped his image, and even been a straight man for some of Peter’s trademark quipping. May has taken a backseat to other supporting cast members, including MJ, several times. She’s also died (for three years, even!) or almost died many times, including recently being kidnapped in the pages of Marvel Knights Spider-Man. After helping convince Peter to unmask at the beginning of the Civil War, and subsequently going on the run with he and MJ, she was shot by a sniper sent by Wilson Fisk, Kingpin. A distraught Peter went about trying to find a way to help her, and revive her. At one point, he even had Madame Web send him into May’s mind.

“Peter...I don’t WANT to come back. I’m tired, Peter...and I’ve been down this road...too, TOO many times.” -May Parker, Sensational Spider-Man #39.

Joe Quesada doesn’t really keep secrets. In fact, if there’s something he’s thinking or feeling, he likes to announce it to the world. Quesada hasn’t been the biggest fan of Peter and Mary Jane as a married couple. This is despite the further strengthening of their relationship during his run as Editor-in-Chief. Joe Q, during his initial run of “Joe Fridays” articles here at Newsarama, liked to talk about his genies and his desire to put them back in their respective bottles. The Mutants are taking over the world, there’s no real tension and danger in the Marvel U anymore; and Peter Parker is married. These are the things Joe Quesada set out to “fix” in his editorial capacity.

House of M and Civil War took care of two of those things, for certain. It can be argued, of course, to what degree of success, but Marvel has had higher sales than in years past, and the public as a whole seem to be enjoying many of their flagship titles, with good reviews outweighing the bad in their core, or as I’ll call it to Joe Q’s chagrin, “616” universe. As Joe Fridays became New Joe Fridays, Quesada started to preach to the masses his dislike of Peter Parker’s marriage. He claimed there were no stories that could be told with a married Pete that couldn’t be told with a single Pete, and that vice versa was not true. Peter being married crippled the character, and made him un-relatable. Many others at Marvel expressed the same beliefs to him, though very rarely was it said it in interviews or public statements. One thing was for certain, if there was an opportunity for fans to question Quesada, whether at a panel (like the X-Men Panel at Wizard World Chicago 2007) or in an interview online, the issue of the “Spider-marriage” came up. The fan response tended towards disagreement (as shown by our recent poll). Regardless, the marriage was dissolved. How it happened, what it changes, nagging questions, and what might be good about it, are all items of much contention.

How it Happened
Peter Parker made a deal with the devil.
I’ll let that really sink in.

Mephisto, the Marvel Universe’s Devil, saved Aunt May’s life. He came to both Peter and MJ, and told them that if they would give up their love, their marriage, he’d save May. The catch, as there always is with the Devil, is they would both feel some pain of loss from losing their marriage, and the knowledge that they also essentially killed their unborn child by wiping her from the possibility of existence.

What this Changes
Well, for starters, we see at the end of Amazing Spider-Man #545 some of the immediate effects. Harry Osborn is back from the dead (won’t Norman be surprised?). Peter no longer has organic webshooters, which implies that the heightened version of his Spider-sense and the “stingers” are probably gone, too, as they were all gained through a shared experience. Of course, Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson are no longer married. They still dated, of course, and we don’t know yet how/when/why they broke up. May is alive and well, although there was never any guarantee or indication of for how long. Peter’s identity is back in the realm of secret, and this is the thing that causes the most problems. That’s what we know so far.

Nagging Questions
Did JMS’s entire run get retconned? Is Amazing Spider-Man now being told several years in the past? What was new Peter’s role in all the major events that have happened since his original wedding day? For Example: Maximum Carnage, the Clone Saga, House of M, his joining the Avengers, Civil War… aren’t these stories now fundamentally changed? Mary Jane provided a sense of balance to Peter, and also had interactions with just about every major super-hero in the Marvel Universe; how does this butterfly effect harm/advance them? Shouldn’t some characters have died or not have died as a direct result of never having been exposed to MJ? Didn’t Peter stop wearing the black costume because it frightened his wife (who was reminded of Venom)? Will Peter have repercussions for making a deal with the devil? How does “with great power comes great responsibility” fit in with making a deal with the devil in the first place? What if Mephisto gets bored and tells MJ? Or Peter? Or May (“What have you done Peter…what have you done”)? And of course, what did Mary Jane whisper to Mephisto, and is it just a Deus Ex Machina for this Deus Ex Machina? These are really just a handful of the questions of the volumes and volumes that are possible that fans have to ask now that this story has gone through. Bendis has said that Pete will still be on the Avengers, but like many fans I just don’t see how – after all, did he move into Avengers Tower pre-Civil War with just Aunt May? Who was Wolverine hitting on then? (Of course, that’s a whole other ball of wax, as we’ve been shown recently; Wolverine’s brain has this issue with being toyed with, and fights – hard – against manipulation.)

What Might be Good?
Well, it got people talking, that’s for sure. Oh, and, for the most part, united, too.

Seriously though, this is the hardest question to answer. We don’t know what is in store for Spidey; no one has a crystal ball, and Joe Q and company sure aren’t going to spill the beans. The first thing fans who didn’t like the story should note is the length that major changes last for Peter Parker, that is to say, not long. His most recent two (The Other and Unmasking) only lasted about a year and a half to two years. Even when Aunt May died, as I noted earlier, it lasted a few years then went away, and the same with the baby he and MJ had. The Marriage has been around for 20 years (some 20th anniversary, huh?), so it obviously has some staying power. There are some interesting possibilities with this new status quo, of course. Peter’s supporting cast just instantly grew from MJ, May, and the occasional Avenger, to the large group of friends he used to hang out with, among some newbies. His job at the Daily Bugle should be back in place, allowing for that old crew to be back in his life as well. The dynamic between Peter and the Avengers, let alone the Federal Government and the super-hero community as a whole, will have to completely change. Seeing the new interactions, and discovering how his new life fits in with the rest of the world should be interesting, and could be exciting. One thing is for sure, it will be a big change from the stories JMS has masterfully (and some not-so-masterfully) told over the last near-decade.

The Best Shots Team: One More Day Roundtable

The Question: What did you think?

J. Caleb Mozzocco: Well, personally, I didn't like it.

While I agree with Quesada's oft-stated opinion that an unmarried Peter Parker is a younger-feeling, easier-for-kids-to-relate-to character, I was never sold on the idea that the Marvel Universe version needed to be de-married to achieve that status quo, particularly not when there's the already quite excellent Ultimate Spider-Man (which has always been the best Spider-Man book), the usually very good Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, plus Spider-Loves Mary Jane, Spider-Man Family and any other out-of-continuity stuff Marvel wants to do. In fact, the married, more adult version of Spidey is the rarest one, as the Marvel Universe titles proper are the only places anyone can regularly tell the stories of the married Spider-Man (And besides, there aren't any kids reading ASM, and, with USM and MASM--that's a lot of abbreviations, huh?--there doesn't need to be any kids reading it).

As for the books themselves, I didn't care for them at all. I enjoyed most of the JMS stories I read, particularly at the beginning of his run, but I honestly laughed out loud on his first page of OMD--the bit about tuning in to the frequency of despair or whatever--and I don't think it got any better from there, really.

I never understood the conflict at all. Aged, senior citizen aunt who got shot and was likely to die vs. marriage. Spidey came off as selfish, explicitly stating that the only problem with May being on her deathbed being that he couldn't live with it being his fault, not that she was dying in general. But hey, you can read people complaining about this, and the randomness of the devil getting involved, anywhere on the Internet, right? (And wait, our hero did a literal deal with the literal devil here?!)

I was kind of hoping for a twist here in the last issue, something to indicate that Quesada and JMS weren't really going to do what readers feared they would, but they did. The closest thing to a twist was MJ's Lost In Translation moment, and the wiggle room it leaves, which somehow makes the whole thing more insulting to the already quite put-upon readers.

On top of overcharging readers each issue (sorry, but Aunt May's power rating and six pages of reprint aren't really worth an extra $1) and shipping this thing super-late, there's the fact that this big, annoying change that nobody at all in the whole world likes may not last longer than a couple of months anyway. Spider-Man's been changed forever! Unless we change him back!

Finally, I find the whole thing just completely confusing. Peter asks Mephisto how this works, and he's just like, "Eh, it doesn't matter." Actually, if Peter's reverting back to his 1970s status quo (I'm guessing; this is a status quo that pre-dates my ability to read, anyway), it does kind of matter.

If he didn't out himself in Civil War, doesn't that change the course of the Civil War, and thus the whole Marvel Universe (not to mention all that father-son stuff with Tony Stark and the later bitter enmity between them)? Did he and MJ and May not live at Avengers Tower, does that change the course of Avengers history at all? Is Peter de-aged? Does no one in the Marvel Universe remember any Spider-Man stories? What the hell, guys?

I didn't even much care for the art, which is what I usually hear people saying was the story's saving virtue. Quesada's figures are fine, even if the faces and expressions usually failed to match the emotion of the script. And I honestly pored over the credits of this thing to try and figure out who drew the post-deal epilogue, as it looked nothing like the rest of the story, and seems even stiffer and more photo-referenced. Did a change in inker and colorist really change Quesada's art that much?

What was most interesting to me at this point in the story were the credits, particularly after JMS online confession about being uncomfortable being credited as the writer of the last half of the story (Quesada and JMS were both credited for the "Story," and there are no other writing credits; if JMS wrote the script alone, there's no credit saying as much), and then the last-page testimonials from Marvel creators saying how much they liked JMS' run.

These struck me as ironic, as everything that occurred during JMS' run, from Aunt May learning Peter's secret to the organic webshooters, seems to have been--at least temporarily--undone by his last story. Like it never happened.

Kevin Huxford: I believe that, on the very site our roundtable is appearing on, Marvel swore up and down that there'd be no reset button a year or so down the line on Peter's announcing himself to be Spider-Man. That, as it turns out, was an outright lie. While I can understand and sometimes tolerate the need to be vague or misleading in PR or interviews in order to try to create a measure of suspense or concern that a story is too weak or the audience too cynical to pull off on their own, I can't stand being lied to as a paying customer.

I also find it alarming that successful runs heading up the Big Two seem to lead to a severe case of ego. That ego causes an EiC to believe that they have such a Midas touch that they need to touch more stories in more ways. They seem to forget that spitballing ideas or approving stuff that crosses their desk doesn't necessarily mean that they are fully equipped to come up with a whopper on their own.

As for the book, you can feel editorial mandate dripping from this. So much doesn't seem to make sense in the interplay, most notably MJ. Just trying to look at this as a story, she never really got to have a believable reaction to the idea that she'd be wished away just for May to live longer. It is touched on only slightly in the beginning of the issue and then pretty much left there. Maybe the two pages of two panels being repeated with MJ telling Peter to shhh every third or fourth panel could have been given to that?

I'd have to agree with Caleb that it is a bit disappointing to have all of JMS's run more or less wiped out by this. I, too, liked so much of the early run. JMS and John Romita Jr. brought me into reading Spider-Man consistently for several years. The Gwen Stacy kids with Deodato art was probably the beginning of my wandering away, with The Other putting the final nail in the coffin until this event. Of course, we've all found out that JMS wanted the kids to be from Gwen and Peter, not Osborn, with editorial killing that idea. If only this brilliant Mephisto idea (groan) had been thought up then, maybe JMS could have done it. One wonders, though...whether those kids being Gwen & Norman's means they survive this continuity pun...ahem...deal with the devil.

Which reminds me...the Superboy-Prime “continuity punch” was previously the stupidest idea for a reboot. This trumps that device, though, because at least the character that was brought back wasn't actively tied to what brought him back. You can't blame him for how he got here, but you can blame Peter for his situation. He may forever be remembered for having such tunnel vision about his aunt that he pissed away his wife, unborn child, and happiness.

Lucas Siegel: Well, I did the history piece as un-biased as I possibly could, now, for the shocker: This was utterly ridiculous.

Caleb, you bring up the number one reason why it's ridiculous, and the point, that whenever it's been brought up in fan q-and-a's or interviews, Joe Q and staff have always brushed by and never answered. Why do we need this change, as readers? We have so many options for stories of un-married Peter. Also, how, exactly, is this not a Crisis-like continuity change? And/or, does it just make the need for a Crisis-like change? Yes, I can see some of the potential in the future stories, and the creative teams coming on Amazing make me smile big-big, which makes it even more unfortunate that I won't be reading it. This book is dropped. You want to make Peter more accessible to a younger readership. Now let's really think this through with some logic here.

Goal: Peter more accessible to younger readers.

Point 1: Marvel, under Joe Quesada, has a no-smoking policy for its heroes. Joe reportedly thinks it glorifies and/or encourages kids to smoke and doesn't want it in his comics.

Point 2: To make Peter Parker more accessible to younger readers, the same Joe Quesada had him make a deal with the devil.

This means, to me, that making a deal with the devil is more acceptable for our children than smoking. And yes, I know that the devil, depending on your beliefs, may or may not be real, while cigarettes and lung cancer are certainly very real, but still – let’s talk about the message here – it’s okay to make a bargain with ultimate evil to make your life better (let’s be honest – that was what was at the root of Peter’s decision – “I don’t want to experience/can't live with Aunt May dying”), and allow you to put off a grown up thing like dealing with the death of, and mourning the passing of a beloved aunt.

And thus, I will no longer be buying Amazing Spider-Man. This story appalled me, really, and takes away a lot of respect that I held for the people involved. At least JMS spoke out about it a bit. Now, I could eat my words, and I accept that. This could all be one huge red herring lead-in to the next big change. Maybe we'll see some real consequences, I don't know. I just don't see how you can possibly tell any stories in the entire 616 with a suddenly unmarried, re-masked, powered down Peter Parker without resetting the entire universe. And– you can bet your bottom dollar that upcoming Amazing Spider-Man editor Steve Wacker’s nascent ulcer is going to grow worse, because there are going to be legions of Spider-Man fans looking for that first slip where something that only a married Peter could have known finds its way into a Spider-Man story (and not just in Amazing, but in the stories of every character that has encountered a married Peter Parker over the past 20 years)…which will require a Band-Aid to explain, as will the next one, and the next one, and the next one.

I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things; as a comic fan, an avid video game player, a fan of anime and oodles of genre entertainment in virtually every field, I have to. But this one is too much. Oh, in case you didn't figure it out, I voted "ARGH! Worst. Thing. Ever."

Richard Renteria: How amazing was that. The most talked about Marvel comic since the Death of Captain America and Marvel managed to pull off something not even DC Comics could do – this storyline has the honor of being the one comic book I’ve read this year that really makes me consider no longer reading mainstream super-hero titles. Wall-punch, deal with the devil, either way you look at it, it is shoddy storytelling at its worst.

To lay the blame solely at the feet of JMS for this travesty would be a travesty in itself, as just like in “Sins Past,” Joe Q steps in with his big E-I-C shoes, and decides the direction of the characters, regardless of how much sense it makes for storytelling purposes. What happened to Civil War having long-term ramifications for Peter and family? That’s what I was looking forward to, I already collect Ultimate Spider-Man and Marvel Adventures Spider-Man for my unmarried Peter Parker fix and I am quite content with that arrangement. In addition to ruining a relationship that was the exact opposite of forced (i.e. Storm/Black Panther) it ruined a perfectly good title that had a history of forward movement.

It’s unfortunate that JMS’s swan song on a title he helped to revive is one that came with so much editorial interference that you could actually see the bad writing happening in front of you. Let’s take a quick look at the fun that is bad writing for a moment: everyone knows who Spidey really is – now they don’t – on the surface that seems an easy enough fix, for a silver age story written in the ‘50s or ‘60s. So everyone on the planet forgets who is under the mask, cool, but what about all the images of Spidey’s unmasking do those all suddenly vanish? Does Norman remember who is under the mask? Not convinced of the bad writing editorial interference can cause, ok, let us take a look at Peter making a deal with devil – Peter knows other heroes who have had dealings with Mephisto; he’s been a big-time hero in the Marvel U long enough to even have his own dealings with this evil, so what does he do, he makes a deal with the devil! Come on, even newbie heroes know the only deal you can make with the devil is a bad one. Also, is it just me, does Peter’s reasoning to move forward with this deal make absolutely no sense? He has forgiven himself and been forgiven for Uncle Ben’s death, this would have been the perfect opportunity to add a new layer of guilt to Peter’s already rocky life by allowing May to finally have the send off she deserves.

On the art front is the real writer of this storyline, Joe Quesada. Don’t get me wrong; I generally enjoy Quesada’s art. I loved him when he was doing X-Factor and even enjoyed his stylized work in Daredevil: Father, but because of how much I hated the story I was reading I could not enjoy the art. By the time I got to the end I couldn’t stop to “smell the roses” so to speak had no desire to revisit the scene of the crime. The words Make Mine Marvel now rings hollow in my ears.

Making a deal with the devil in a comic book is worse than leaving footprints on your victim’s brain [Identity Crisis] or bringing back the dead with a well-placed wall-punch [Infinite Crisis]. I understand the EIC of Marvel feels that this is the appropriate direction for the character, but it makes absolutely no sense given his very nature as a hero. Aunt May would be rolling in her grave, oh wait, never mind. I am honestly no longer looking forward to Secret Invasion, I can see the end now, Tony makes a deal with the devil so everyone will forget about the Skrull invasion and since Mephisto is such a swell guy, I’m sure he will even throw in a secret identity or two, no strings attached, because that’s how the man in red rolls.

Troy Brownfield: When I heard that other guys were all down on OMD, I was really disappointed. Granted, most of the guys probably only knew them from “If You Leave”, but that alone is a classic track from a classic ‘80s film, and worthy of respect. There should also be some measure of appreciation for “So in Love”, “(Forever) Live and Die”, and “Dreaming”. It’s obvious that they weren’t as pioneering as Depeche Mode, but they’re better than Camouflage (though “Love is a Shield” is pretty great).

Oh, hang on. They meant “One More Day”? That changes things.

I’m not sure that I’ll have much in the way of new insight after all the points that the others have hit, so I’ll try to sum up and underscore.

1) This was a huge mistake. Marvel has been telling a string of successful interconnected stories, (most times) lovingly creating a complex and wonderful universe filled with relationships and realistic characters, and this is a huge monkey wrench right in the middle of the works. The minute that you have to start asking yourself where things fit and how they work, then you’re yanked out of the story. There’s no way that I won’t see Spidey show up for the immediate future in New Avengers and think, “Okay, since MJ And Pete weren’t married, then they didn’t live in the tower, and . . .”. It’s maddening.

2) Peter Parker, the guy who was supposed to be the everyman hero – the hero that kids, adolescents, and adults could relate to, made a deal with the devil. That’s bad. To elaborate: he made a deal with the devil to save his elderly aunt at the expense of his wife. Not only is that selfish and childish, but it’s a big middle finger to the idea of marriage in comics. Considering that the audience is aging, and considering that many of the readers may in fact be married or near it (like half of our review team), doesn’t it seem a little ridiculous to try to make us care about a hero that will sacrifice his marriage (and entire memory of it!) for a woman that’s been trying to die since Ditko drew the trapped-in-the-rubble scene?

3) It doesn’t improve the character. Like Caleb said, if you want unmarried Spidey, then he’s all over the place. He’s in two other ongoing Marvel continuities. He’s in the movies. He’s in cartoons. He’s in collections. He’s downloadable. If you’re having trouble telling stories with a married character, find a writer who knows how to tell stories with a married character.

The diabolically ironic thing is that Quesada has noted a couple of times that divorce would taint the character. I find it funny that divorce will, but a deal with the devil won’t. Frankly, divorce would have been much more in tune with Spidey’s hard-luck world.

Consider how this story might have gone if after May had been shot, MJ presented Peter with an ultimatum. It could have still been titled “One More Day”, only this time MJ might have said something to the effect of, “Peter, I love you, and I love May, but this is it. I can’t do this anymore. If we stay together, someone is going to die. It could be me, and it could be you. And one of us is going to end up heartbroken. I don’t want that to happen, but it’s inevitable. So it has to end now. Here are the papers, Peter. Please sign them and don’t contest this. I can’t take one more day of wondering when you won’t come home. One more day of wondering when Venom, or Norman, or some Hand Ninja who’s having a lucky day is going to finish it. For my sake, for your sake, for the sake of the children that I might have some day, we have to let it go. I’d give anything to have one more day with you, but I know that I can’t stay. It’s in your power to do the responsible thing, Peter. Let me go.” And write her out of the series and universe for at least five years, maybe forever. Done. Point readers to Ultimate Spider-Man if they want to see MJ and Peter together.

Sure, divorce is painful and messy and there are always emotional damages. But it’s real. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (and in this case, Steve Ditko too) built Marvel’s House of Ideas on the notion that the characters had real feelings and real problems. This would have been a sad, but honorable, way out of the marriage. As it stands, Peter, MJ, May . . . and the readers . . . all got a raw deal.

[Colonsus]

Nothing can possibly redeem this cluster-____. They've really screwed up this time.

[steven_eks]

Oh, Troy...I thought I was the only one who was making bad OMD jokes...I miss that band.

As a long term fan of Amazing--I am disappointed with the outcome of the book but I wasn't reeling at the execution of the storyline as much as everyone else has been. Mephisto was a "left field" story device but--it could've been worse. I do like the idea that Peter and MJ are on the rocks somehow; as indicated in the end of the issue. I think it's lame that you've flushed 20 years of storytelling down the toilet. I really liked the exchange between Peter and MJ in the last moments of their life together--it was poignant and well constructed--very natural in it's delivery.

Do I like what they've done--no. I had an "Aunt May" in my life until she died of cancer last year. I relate to Peter's relationship with his wife. I struggle to pay my bills, finding my adult identity in an ever-changing society, and living life in general...just like Peter Parker does. So, in a way, they've removed the resonance I, as a reader and fan, have with the book.

Harry's back--and the rehab joke was funny. It seems like they basically went back to the mid-70s model of ASM but now everyone is post-college grad instead of in their early 20s.

I guess what will keep me reading is that I hope that this "un-doing" will eventually be "undone" itself--the writing is on the wall--it seems the vocal part of the fan base is unhappy with the change. Long term sales on the book will provide a little insight as to whether or not the move was prudent.

Wait and see, right?

Eks

[Goldenboy]

Hmm.

Worst story since the Clone Saga? I think so.

[uscwamer]

Originally Posted by Colonsus

Nothing can possibly redeem this cluster-____. They've really screwed up this time.

It really is just DUMB. I don't mind them getting rid of the marriage, but they way it was done is so pathetic. Forming words to try and describe how dumb and terrible this was is a waste of time, because i have to find a job. If i had a job, i'd make it my new hobby to write pages on this cluster____.

[whitemarkd]

Wait a minute - Spidey was married?

[Marius665]

this ruins almost every book at Marvel

Harry is back so how does this effect Norman's place on the Thunderbolts?

the Stacy twins should still be around right?

no marriage but still a Clone Saga right, so Ben Rielly is still alive?

no Iron Spidey clones yes or no?

his place on New Avengers will be way to confusing!

it's just a bad idea and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way looking at the votes on the previous OMD thread

i will not be collection Amazing Spider-Man until things get back to normal, which sucks 'cause alot of talent will be on BND

this is why I give Bendis alot of credit, looking at his Ultimate Spidey over the years he would never do anything like this, if anything he should have been consulted with the OMD idea, I mean come on... this is a guy who made the Clone Sage cool as Hell, his only mistake is the different personalities in his NA book compared to the dark Amazing version in the Back in Black story

[aceatkins]

Thank you for your well-thought-out, multi-faceted analyses of the OMD situation. I have no doubt that you all are about to be flamed by OMD supporters, but I respect the work you guys do week in and week out. While I don't always agree with your points of view, I absolutely do here. I doubt that this or any other measured criticism of the OMD debacle will have any effect for the foreseeable, but I'm glad it's there for every reader shaking their heads, wondering what just happened, and looking for someplace to direct their anger. Keep up the good work.

And to those readers who are really angry about this, I'll say it again: vote with your wallet. It is the ONLY thing Marvel will pay attention to in the end.

[shadow-ray]

You say "screwed-up".

I say they now have unlimited potential.

To each his (or her own) but I really enjoyed the storyline. I can't wait to see the new stories.

[shadowchaser]

the most absolute god awful decision that marvel and quesada can make...i really hope it backfires in their faces

spider-man making a deal with the devil, how effen pathetic, yeah, real hero right there

[Thacher]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

What this Changes
Well, for starters, we see at the end of Amazing Spider-Man #545 some of the immediate effects. Harry Osborn is back from the dead (won’t Norman be surprised?). Peter no longer has organic webshooters, which implies that the heightened version of his Spider-sense and the “stingers” are probably gone, too, as they were all gained through a shared experience.

Where does it say the organic shooters are gone? I keep looking through the book but I don't see any reference to that stuff going away.

I'm also really interested in Newsarama doing an interview with Joe about the whole thing and its response, which seems to be overwhelmingly negative. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I'd like to see an open and blunt conversation about his rationale for how the specifics were handled, his responses to JMS statements on the ending, as well as how his reaction to the fan reaction.

I guess I really just want to see the words "I don't care what everyone thinks, I'm doing it this way" come out of his "mouth." This was his call, and I'd like to see him step up and defend it so we can have an honest discourse about it.

[Lemurion]

Good analysis of a terrible story.

[shadowchaser]

Originally Posted by Thacher

Where does it say the organic shooters are gone? I keep looking through the book but I don't see any reference to that stuff going away.

Quesada said it himself they are back in the CBR interview and you can clearly see the webshooters on Peter's hand in the last page

[Tom Daylight]

What a lot of hyperbole. "...really makes me consider no longer reading mainstream super-hero titles...", "This story appalled me, really...", "I won't be reading it. This book is dropped." Are you reviewers or just trumped-up fanboys? You're taking it way too personally for me to take these reviews remotely seriously. Disappointingly unprofessional.

"overcharging readers each issue (sorry, but Aunt May's power rating and six pages of reprint aren't really worth an extra $1)" - actually, there were nine extra pages of story in this issue as well as that. The other three issues were a total rip-off (profiles and half-reprints) so it's a shame you picked on the one that isn't.

[Grievous]

I can't get over how crap this story was.

not one person likes it.

[rufusTfirefly]

I could kinda understand JQ's point about reverting to a single Peter Parker. I didn't agree with it, but I understood where he was coming from. But this? Just terrible.

JQ has often said "At Marvel, we don't have crisis's." referring to the fact that they don't need to go back every few years and reset their continuity. So what does he do? He goes back and resets their continuity. Small patches and minor tweaks wouldn't bother me, but this? Laughable.

I've read Spidey for twenty-five years now, and have built up a collection with every issue of all his ongoing titles, minis, one-shots etc. and this is the first time I have ever truly considered just giving it all up.

The change I could have handled. It's the execution that leaves me torn on this...

[KaijubotX]

I'm really torn. I no longer want to spend money on Spider-Man titles as a result of this, since we all know the bottom line is the only thing the Big 2 look at these days. Yet, I don't want to not support the creators that are coming onto Amazing, I really like the work of guys like Slott and Jimenez. Sucks to be long-time fan and an outraged consumer, but I think the outraged consumer will win out. Terrible, terrible decision by Q.

[coredejour]

i pretty much agree with everything said. the story leaves too many questions open and not the good kind of questions either. i completely understand why JMS wanted off of this story. what a slap in the face. they did this to him for almost every one of his major arcs and this is the last and final one. i will continue to collect it to see if they answer any questions and how long it will take. when you look at the grand scope of things this is one of those rare things that affects the entire marvel universe. they promised that this would change the status but they didnt promise that we would like it.

read on, read on

[Gepug]

I agree with Richard R...it is a copout and I too truly thought that there would be some last minute "crazy Ivan" rather than go down this trite predictable road. JMS pulled me back in to Spider Man, but I will not be a part of the Brand New Day. How long until they reverse this the way they did with the Clone Saga? Thoughts?

[darrenmdr]

I must say I do disagree with a lot of the opinion in the article and even though the first three parts of OMD were apalling beyond belief, I am intrigued by what comes next. I still think that this is a sort of Age of Apocalypse stylee thang which will disapear soon enough, but time will tell. It really is too early to answer any of the questions that this story has thrown up, (bleeurghh) but I am guessing we will see lots of ubtle and not so subtle clues to show that this new reality is not real. I also expect their to be two versions of Peter Parker to be in the M.U for a while too until this story is over.

The thing that I am really pleased about with this article though, is that hopefully it will shut up the pathetic whinging idiots that moan that Newsarama are in Joe Q's backpocket. If anything this article reiterates the indepenance and integrity of Newsarama staff.

Happy New Year to all.

[Time Master]

I know there have been some arguments that this insanely stupid idea of the Magic Mephisto Reset Button could just be a temporary twist and that there's a greater overall masterplan that Mephistjoe and company have in store.

Yes, the whispered final offer from Mary Jane to Mephisto could possibly be a clue that this is just temporary, but I think it's simply a fallback loophole for Marvel to use if "Brand New Day" turns off readers and sales slide too far for comfort. If "Brand New Day" is a success, you'll never see anything more about that final offer, but if it isn't, it can be developed as a "See? It was all part of the plan after all" fallback position.

DC tried this same tactic with THE FLASH by shifting Wally to an alternate dimension in case Bart Allen tanked as the Flash, which he did. And look how well that's worked out in the long run...

[Zechs]

Originally Posted by shadow-ray

You say "screwed-up".

I say they now have unlimited potential.

To each his (or her own) but I really enjoyed the storyline. I can't wait to see the new stories.

What unlimited potential? The fact that their at square one again? Didn't Joey Q once state that Marvel would never have a Crisis ie a reboot? Isn't OMD pretty much that? An entire reboot? See, being a Spider-fan for more than fifteen years I remember another story that had "unlimited" potential. Something was supposed to revolutionize Spidey and his books.

It was called Spider-Man: Chapter One. Yeah.. and we all know how that turned out.

[Tom Daylight]

Originally Posted by whitemarkd

Wait a minute - Spidey was married?

yeah, in a story even more ____ed-up than this one!

[Grievous]

Originally Posted by Thacher

Where does it say the organic shooters are gone? I keep looking through the book but I don't see any reference to that stuff going away.

here they are, well, one of them

[Marius665]

The Clone Saga
The Other
One More Day

here is what I would have done, and feel free to judge

Aunt May should have died but not without Peter looking at his team for help. Why go to Stark, even though you feel he's responsible, when Pete could have asked Danny Rand for help. I would have let her die, but not without talking to Peter and requestion to be let go, Strange could have helped out with this. I mean he did allow Peter to converse with uncle Ben. Pete and MJ would have gone to live at Strange's house with the NA team. But since they are all on the run it probably would be a stupid idea to live in New York where Stark's team is and most of SHIELD. I'd move them to Chicago, IL. Moon Knight is from Chicago so I'm sure he has some hi-tech bases around there somewhere. I'd keep Pete is his black costume for about 2 years since we all(most) love it and we haven't seen it in some time. Give it 2 years to see the modern artist take a pencil to it. One thing I never liked since Civil War is that even though everyone knows who Spider-Man is Pete still walks around like nothing. I'd shave is head like in House of M and make MJ's hair black. Small changes so they wouldn't be recognized. I'd have a confrontation with the Thunderbolts and New Avengers, finally . Then have the Stacy twins, the Hobgoblin from Secret War, Electro and Vulture with the new costume designs that Terry Dodson made, and Dr. Octapus with the Humberto Ramos desing return. Not to mention the return of the Sinister Six; Aloysha Kraven who is a mutant, Mysterio (Francis Klum) who is also a mutant, Dr. Octapus in his black trench coat, Sandman, and Electro and Vulure in their Terry Dodson designs. And some where down the line I'd have baby May Parker be found which would inspire Peter to go back to his red and blue costume.