TALKING TO DAN DIDIO, 2007 - PART ONE

[MattBrady]

Over the last two days, we spoke with DC President and Publisher Paul Levitz about some of the larger issues surrounding DC Comics in 2007 (Part One and Part Two), and today, we begin our two part conversation with DCU Executive Editor Dan DiDio about the view of 2007 from the DC Universe line of titles.

Newsarama: Let’s start with the big, broad question for 2007 – what worked, what didn’t work?

Dan DiDio: Wow. Okay…2007, in my opinion, was a challenging year, and it was a bit of a transition year in regards to stories and setting up teams, and directions for our characters. It was challenging in the sense that we tried to really pull together so many aspects of the DC Universe to make it much more cohesive in regards to its storytelling and continuity, and we found that by doing so, it strained all of our systems and in some ways inhibited the stories that we were telling, so we made a course correction during the year, and I feel that we’ve got the wind to our back right now, and we’re going to roll into 2008 with a full head of steam.

NRAMA: Let’s be a little more specific – this is Countdown you’re talking about, and the claim that it would be the “spine” of the DCU for 2007, and reflect everything that was going on throughout the universe, which didn’t work as well as you’d hoped, correct?

DD: Exactly – what happened with Countdown in trying to line up the universe, we ended up pacing our stories across the titles of the DC Universe, and didn’t allow each story to follow its own, natural pace in its own book. Meaning that, Countdown slowed down, because we had to wait for the Rogues to come free after the Flash death. We had to wait for Kyle Rayner to come free from a moment in Sinestro Corps. By doing so, it slowed down the opening sequences of Countdown, and I think it hurt the series as it was just coming out of the gate. We didn’t have that full head of steam – we didn’t get into the major meat of the stories, and we didn’t get into the full direction of the series until later on down the line.

I’m happy to say that by the time that we hit the halfway mark, I felt that we’d made all the corrections necessary for that series, and I feel that the book is on track for where it should be right now.

NRAMA: But what was the cause of the problems? Overreaching what was physically and logistically possible from a production and storytelling point of view?

DD: Exactly. Honestly, I have no problem being overambitious. We always have to keep trying, to keep pushing the format, the medium and the stories. Just like with everything, you’re not going to have a 100% success record – especially when you’re doing what we do, where we’re putting out somewhere between 60-65 books on a monthly basis. So, in that case, you’re just not going to be able to do it without making a mistake here or there. The problem is that when you have something as prominently displayed as a Countdown or some of our key titles running late or skipping months – those glaring missteps become much more the lightning rod and seem to be indicative of the entire line, which is not the case.

NRAMA: But those “key titles” were books like Action and Wonder Woman, with a few others thrown in now and again, this after you stressed last year that those titles needed to be there every month, and were the foundation of the DC Universe line of titles…

DD: Right. We had some problems with Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman at the start of the year, with their delivery. The bottom line is this: as goes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, so goes the DCU. Even if those were the only three books that were running late, the impression would be that the entire DCU was running late, because the most prominent series were the ones that were missing.

So in that case, it was very important for us to get those books back on track and to be out there every month with them. It’s something Paul insists we do, and he’s correct in doing so. It’s our job to do that from this point forward, and I feel that we have made the corrections along the way to allow us to achieve that goal, and to make sure we are back on the stands every month with those series. When they are out there, the fans react and they enjoy what we’re doing. So it’s our job to make sure that we keep on giving them the books on time with the stories that they want to read.

NRAMA: We’ve spoken previously about late books, specifically, and your rather blunt response was along the lines of “People buy them anyway” when it came to late books. That got a pretty angry reaction. Are you saying here that people did stop buying the late books in appreciable enough numbers?

DD: Exactly. It was also appreciable enough on our side that we felt the momentum of the stories was broken and they were suffering as a result, and readers weren’t able to get in to the stories, or not willing to try the stories. People would say that it would all be fine because it will eventually be collected in a trade, but the bottom line for me is that I’m in the periodical business. We are in the trade business, don’t get me wrong, but I’m in the periodical business. That’s what we do. If you’re putting out 65 books a month, you’re in the periodical business, so you better be periodical. That’s what we had to fix and take more seriously.

We were already doing that with the weekly books – we’ve never missed a ship date on the weeklies yet, and we will never miss a date on the weeklies. Where we stand with everything else is that we will make sure that we are going to deliver the books that we say we’re going to, and we deliver them when we say we’re going to. If there is a delay or two – and I’m not claiming we’re going to be 100% delivery time – but we are making every effort to deliver on time and make sure the books we deliver are of the best quality possible.

NRAMA: Connected to that, what has 2007 taught you about what works in the current marketplace? What catches and holds comic readers’ attention?

DD: I’ve always felt that the “bigger” stories still matter. The stories that seem to affect change, not only to characters within that story, but across the line still seem to matter.

You could say that we went too wide with Countdown, but went just the right size with Sinestro Corps War. Sinestro is actually the perfect example of how an event takes place now – it crosses across several books, drives a huge and important story for the line, and more importantly, you feel that the story has serious ramifications on the series and the story will not only be important to what’s going on right now, but also to the future of the character in the DC Universe. It has to feel like a natural progression of what was going on in the series to begin with.

NRAMA: Speaking of the Sinestro Corps War - it was unique in a way, in that it made no bones about being a “universe-wide” story, but you didn’t have Superman fans complaining in large numbers about where the Sinestro Corps’ invasion of earth takes place in regards to the Superman or Action issues – but at the same time, there are complaints about where Countdown issues are occurring relative to the characters’ ongoing series. Why is the level of criticism more…intense when it comes to Countdown compared to Sinestro Corps?

DD: I think ultimately it comes down to the quality and the energy that the story generates. Readers got so wrapped up with everything that was going on in Sinestro Corps that they would let everything else figure itself out, because the story is captivating and exciting. Honestly, it’s the best thing that we produced this year. Without a doubt.

NRAMA: What does that say, or not say about Countdown then?

DD: With Countdown, we went very vocal about how it was going to bring everything together, therefore, the fact that everything was tied together overshadowed what was going on with the characters in the story, and that became the focal point of what all the discussions were about, more so than whether or not these stories and these characters appearing in them were engaging.

Like I said, I think we started on the wrong foot, we started off too ambitious with Countdown, but where we are going into the new year with Countdown is that all of the crossovers with the other series are gone away, and the book itself is driving the story for the characters.

People identify things like Countdown to Mystery and Countdown to Adventure and even Lord Havok as Countdown crossovers, but I really don’t – I consider those books to be spin-“outs” of Countdown featuring characters that were in Countdown, and have spun out into their own miniseries and stories. They’re not different than when say; Iceman or Nightcrawler got their own miniseries spinning off of X-Men. So if you say we’re putting out a lot of Countdown, “Countdown” is a brand name the same way that Superman is a brand name, Batman is a brand name, or X-Men is a brand name.

NRAMA: True, but without Countdown, the Lord Havoks and other spin-offs wouldn’t exist, or have a reason for their stories to be told, so there is something to say that there is a connection between them…

DD: Agreed, but you can say the same thing about anything like that – would there have been a Nightwing series without Batman? There wouldn’t have been a Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen without Superman. Jimmy played a role in Superman, and his profile was raised to the point that people wanted to see more adventures with him. That was the hope of what we did. Maybe we spun things out to fast, without getting the chance to really establish the characters, but the more important thing is the Countdown name increased the amount of sampling and interest in characters that people normally would have passed by if the books had come out without the Countdown branding.

It goes back to what I said before – we’re in the business of putting out 60-65 books on a monthly basis. We don’t want to just put out 60-65 books that are just Superman, Batman, Justice League, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Teen Titans and such. We have to broaden out and we have to hope, with everything that we do, that we do it well enough that it creates enough interest and excitement that it can have a continued life past its original conception.

NRAMA: So in short, Countdown has become its own group, a la Superman or Batman, albeit in a more compressed timeframe than any other group of titles.

DD: Absolutely. Looking at it from a different point of view – you don’t do the weekly, but go out there with four books: a Karate Kid series, a Mary Marvel series, a Piper and Trickster series, and a series with Donna Troy, Jason Todd and Kyle Rayner. Say we went out that way – the chances for success are not as strong as they are if those series were worked in through the Countdown concept. It allows us, just like with 52, to showcase characters that we believe in, that we have faith in, in a style and format that people are willing to sample much more regularly than if we came out with series for those individual characters.

NRAMA: That said, given that Countdown-related projects did make up such a large chunk of the DCU’s output this year – as we counted earlier, there are more tie-ins and crossovers than issues of Countdown itself – what went into them in terms of deciding which characters launched side projects and which ones didn’t? You implied that it would be crazy to launch a Lord Havok and the Extremists project without Countdown, but I’d argue that, even with a Countdown it could still be viewed as being pretty crazy to launch a Lord Havok and the Extremists project. These were never top-tier characters, even back in their JLI heyday… what went into these decisions?

DD: Several things, actually – it’s flavors. How do we diversify the scope of the DCU as much as possible without feeling like we’re repeating ourselves consistently? When you create a Countdown to Adventure, you want to do a book that captures the science fiction flair, the science fiction flavor of the DC Universe. It’s the same thing with Countdown to Mystery - that captures the mystic/magical flavor of the DC Universe. So those two books, in my opinion, had very specific purposes in regards to how they continued to broaden what we do while staying within the framework of superhero comic book storytelling. Simple as that.

The other thing is, when you’re talking about something like Lord Havok and the Extremists, it’s a roll of the dice. These are cool-looking characters. We had some wonderful art from Liam Sharp, we had some great ideas from Frank Tieri, and you know what? It sounded like these characters weren’t going to be serviced completely in Countdown - they would be showcased, but not serviced. We thought that, if anything has a chance to tell a story without repeating what we’re doing in another book, it’s something like a Lord Havok in that it’s different from what else we’re offering.

NRAMA: Okay – but now apply that to Captain Carrot and the Amazing Zoo Crew.

DD: The amount of interest in Captain Carrot is not enough to support a series coming out, so what we did was that we brought about a way to tie it in to Countdown that would give us a reason to publish another Captain Carrot series with the hope that people would find it, enjoy it, and maybe ask for more. If the desire is there, we will do more. That’s the same with Lord Havok and others.

NRAMA: Why three for Captain Carrot, and eight for Lord Havok?

DD: It has to deal with the amount of story for the characters, and it also has to deal with what we believe the potential is. We know Captain Carrot has existed before – it’s a pre-sold concept, so we needed to see if people wanted to come back. With Lord Havok, we needed room and time for people to sample it to see if the interest was there.

NRAMA: Let’s back up a bit and talk about events in general, and how they fit in to DC’s publishing plan and business plan. This year, you have Countdown and all its related projects, and Sinestro Corps War. Is DC at a point now where DC and the marketplace are locked into the idea of events that we’re not going to see a period where there isn’t at least one “event” storyline going on?

DD: That’s a hard one – I can say we’ll never do that, and the next month comes out with no event in a month. Realistically speaking, we have such a huge reservoir of characters that we can draw from. Every writer that comes on board wants to try and play with as many toys as possible. Our goal is to get the best stories as possible, not just to use characters for the sake of using them, but as long as they make sense for the story.

So, if someone comes up with a story idea that is enhanced and improved by using more characters to expand on it, I am not going to say no. But, if the story works fine jst the way it is, then that’s fine too. It’s really determined upon what people want to do. The reality is, we’re examining every character, every storyline, and what’s good about it is that each character has enough support material and support in their respective series to allow us to tell bigger stories.

We talked about Sinestro Corps War - that was really just two series coming out over the period of time to tell the whole story. Once we saw the success at the start of it, that’s when we decided to create the additional material, because we felt that there was more potential in the support stories with Cyborg Superman, Superman Prime and Ion. These are strong characters that we wanted to give a chance to stand in the spotlight on their own, rather than make room. But, realistically, the only book outside of our regular publishing schedule that featured the Sinestro Corps War was Blue Beetle. That’s it. The idea that Sinestro Corps War was a massive “event,” I’d argue is because of the strength of the story, not because of the volume of the material that was published in conjunction with the story. Every issue mattered – something happened in every issue, because it was planned that way.

NRAMA: So looking forward, is Sinestro Corps War the model to build on, rather than a crossover which draws in a majority of the DC titles?

DD: Yes. Sinestro Corps is a very strong model for us for 2008 and on.

NRAMA: Looking at some of the big topics of the year, this was a big year for death in the DCU, probably one of the higher body-count years in recent memory…

DD: What about Krypton, when that blew up?

NRAMA: And Superman Prime destroyed Earth-15 this year.

DD: Good point.

NRAMA: You’ve got so many characters being killed in the DCU this year – the New Gods, Titans, Green Lanterns, Bart Allen, and heroes here and there. It’s almost become a joke with fans that all DC solicitations carry the tag “someone dies in this issue!” on them… Why? Yes, there are multiple stories going on, yes, there’s a looming Crisis…but honestly, sometimes it can feel as if the tool most often reached for in the toolbox is the death hammer…

DD: Okay – we 52 universes with earths full of heroes. Therefore there will be stories that have to take place on some of those worlds that their point is to move the story forward to Final Crisis. Because of that, there are events that take place on those worlds. Once of our goals is to create investment in those characters so that we know that people will care if we make a change or the character dies. It’s similar to what Marv Wolfman did with New Teen Titans - create and introduce new characters and sometimes characters are even created to die. Kole was created to die. She carried stories points, but ultimately, she was going to die.

Death is a possible consequence of what our characters do, and we’re telling a lot of stories right now, both in number and in breadth.

NRAMA: But, as a tool in the writer’s toolbox, is it being overused?

DD: Probably at this point. Will it be used again, though? Definitely. Will it be used to this extent? Probably not. Will these deaths matter to the future of the DCU? Absolutely. There are a lot of things going on.

I think it’s kind of funny – a lot of people are talking about death, and what did we see at the end of Green Lantern #25 in the tease?

NRAMA: “The Blackest Night.”

DD: Correct – and the key words in that tease: “the dead will rise.”

There is a plan. There always has been a plan. It has been altered, twisted, turned, but there is a direction, a focus, and a reason for the way things are playing out in the DC Universe. If something occurred over a particular time that seemed to concentrate a particular “flavor” – in this case, death, then that is a mistake on our part to oversell it in a short window. But there is a reason for everything, there is a purpose for the story, and it ultimately goes to a better, bigger story at the end of the day which I think people will react incredibly positively to. I hope, at least.

Nothing is done haphazardly or done just to be gratuitous. The volume has been turned up for a reason. The panic that’s starting to permeate throughout the DCU is there for a reason. We are building to something called Final Crisis. There are spikes in the story as it moves forward, with endings and beginnings as we continue along. We tell periodical stories with continuing, larger stories interwoven throughout. Some of the characters live, some of them die, some return from the dead. The instantaneous reaction by some fans these days is amazing. A character dies, say, with Oliver Queen on his wedding night. The volume of the outrage over the “death” was just amazing – no one wanted to see how the story played out, or if they did, they were hopelessly outshouted by those who, for some reason saw that scene as the end of the story. As it’s clear now, it wasn’t the end of the story by any means. It’s almost as if a contingent of readers these days have lost the desire to speculate, to guess, to wonder about how a sudden intense scene, or even a death will play out.

For those people…may I introduce you to our trade paperback selection? As I said, I’m in the business of periodicals. We’re selling dramatic storytelling told in episodic fashion. The idea that people come back to try it again and see what happening is key to that.

So are characters dying more than before? Characters have been dying and “dying” for decades in comics. How many times did Dr. Doom “die?” How many times did we think that the Joker was dead? Death and the presumption of death are elements of dramatic storytelling. Yes, we’ve rasied the volume, but again, we’ve done it for a reason. Hopefully, people will understand as they see it unfold, that there has been a method to the madness all along.

Check back tomorrow for the rest of the 2007 talk, and a look ahead at Final Crisis and 2008 - and a guest appearance by Geoff Johns.

[ElijahSnowFan]

Dan DiDio: Wow. Okay…2007, in my opinion, was a challenging year, and it was a bit of a transition year in regards to stories and setting up teams, and directions for our characters. It was challenging in the sense that we tried to really pull together so many aspects of the DC Universe to make it much more cohesive in regards to its storytelling and continuity, and we found that by doing so, it strained all of our systems and in some ways inhibited the stories that we were telling, so we made a course correction during the year, and I feel that we’ve got the wind to our back right now, and we’re going to roll into 2008 with a full head of steam.

well, first question, and point blank honesty. glad they fixed some of the obvious problems to get the line back on track -- they've definitely done a lot better with some of their issues from earlier in the year.

[Hobowatcher]

Originally Posted by Dan Didio

NRAMA: Okay – but now apply that to Captain Carrot and the Amazing Zoo Crew.

DD: The amount of interest in Captain Carrot is not enough to support a series coming out, so what we did was that we brought about a way to tie it in to Countdown that would give us a reason to publish another Captain Carrot series with the hope that people would find it, enjoy it, and maybe ask for more. If the desire is there, we will do more. That’s the same with Lord Havok and others.

NRAMA: Why three for Captain Carrot, and eight for Lord Havok?

DD: It has to deal with the amount of story for the characters, and it also has to deal with what we believe the potential is. We know Captain Carrot has existed before – it’s a pre-sold concept, so we needed to see if people wanted to come back. With Lord Havok, we needed room and time for people to sample it to see if the interest was there.

You hear that, people? Start your bitchin'.

[alexeiluthor]

what a neat interview.

Call me weak, but I'm starting to see Dan's rhyme and reason here, especiall with his mentions of Doom and the Joker. I mean, they came back/come back with regularity. It's like a staple of theirs to strike big, then go away, then come back and start the whole cycle over again. Its what they do.

That said, my jowls are starting to cool over the recent surge in DCUdeaths.



still crossing my fingers for the Return of Bart Allen

[God-Man]

This is the cover to Superman #675? Hells yeah!!

[Usernoob]

can anyone here name the artist who did that superman/batman piece shown here in the interview.

[coolmvm]

Originally Posted by Hobowatcher

You hear that, people? Start your bitchin'.

It time to form an angry mob, because no one talks smack about Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew and expects to get away with it.

[SuperSpeedy]

Good interview with some good insight from Didio. I agree with with his opinion about the death count in the DCU particularly his assessment of the Green Arrow Situation. I still hear people bitch about Winick starting out with the "death" angle for Ollie. When all it was was a cliffhanger that wasn't left dangling for 6 issues, but answered imidiately. It was a cliffhanger we've seen a million times and for people to be convinced it was real says that it worked. Everybody needs to chill out sometimes about the deaths. My favorite character was Bart Allen and it sucked to see him go, but that's life and that's drama.

[Drcharles]

Originally Posted by God-Man

This is the cover to Superman #675? Hells yeah!!

That cvr is brilliant, makes me want to get that issue just for some Supes Goooooodness

[khuxford]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

NRAMA: So looking forward, is Sinestro Corps War the model to build on, rather than a crossover which draws in a majority of the DC titles?

DD: Yes. Sinestro Corps is a very strong model for us for 2008 and on.

That is the most beautiful bit I could have hoped to get from this interview. I found the frank discussion about the pitfalls of Countdown to, also, be refreshing.

From what I hear about next year's weekly series, it looks like they will focus on telling an attention-capturing story rather than worrying about things fitting in perfectly.

[greenflameuk]

Originally Posted by Usernoob

can anyone here name the artist who did that superman/batman piece shown here in the interview.

Shane Davis.

[Sluggo]

This is the first part of a very interesting interview, probably the best Didio has given so far. He's very honest and open about what's going on. This kind of transparency needs to continue with DC.

It's obvious that he's willing to admit some mistakes and learn from them. I agree that DC seems to be leading to something big. I'm not following every little detail of it, but I do intend to read "Final Crisis".

That fact that he points to "Sinestro Corps War" as a successful template for a crossover is definitely a step in the right direction.

Meanwhile, what's with the awesome Superman painting up top? That's not Alex Ross, is it? Anybody know what that's from?

[ejulp]

Originally Posted by Usernoob

can anyone here name the artist who did that superman/batman piece shown here in the interview.

Shane Davis

[Derek Ruiz]

Originally Posted by Usernoob

can anyone here name the artist who did that superman/batman piece shown here in the interview.

Shane Davis

Edit:

Originally Posted by ejulp

Shane Davis

Curses! You beat me to it lol.

[ElijahSnowFan]

not to overstate because i wasn't there, but that interview sure sounds like somebody at DC finally got called on the carpet about the absolutely ridiculous lateness that was going on earlier this year.

it's funny, because DiDio touched on it: people did stop reading those late books, and they were pissed. the numbers reflected that.

for my own case, i know i picked up 8-10 Marvel books that i wasn't reading earlier this year because DC was having a horrible time getting stuff out on time -- and i'd certainly disagree when he was saying that it was Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman making everything else appear to be late. trust me, Dan: a ton of stuff was late earlier this year.

i am glad that got addressed -- sometimes, business fundamentals have to be stressed, and one basic one DC had forgotten is that i can't buy a book that doesn't come out.

[caats19]

some of those images are new right? hmm. superman dead? by clark kent? kent looks fat there too. weird

[spidey 85]

i think he knows he messed up but he learned from that which he failed at to make things better .nobody Perfect people ____ happens move on.

[spidey 85]

superman dead from the all star line

[joekelly007]

Originally Posted by Usernoob

can anyone here name the artist who did that superman/batman piece shown here in the interview.

SHANE DAVIS current artist on SUPERMAN/BATMAN and future superstar !!!!

[superboy072]

Originally Posted by SuperSpeedy

Everybody needs to chill out sometimes about the deaths. My favorite character was Bart Allen and it sucked to see him go, but that's life and that's drama.

I think in making his case for the deaths here, we all know the Flash deaths can be a little iffy. His story most likely is not over.

And as a fan of the character, I thought Guggehnheim's entire arc gave Bart a very dramatic send-off that did him justice.

[pojoman]

man, i hope didio keeps to his word and uses the sinestro corps war as a model for other events, ah but thats probably just me being over hyped about him saying that just see next year a repeat of amazons attack

[ljacone]

Originally Posted by God-Man

This is the cover to Superman #675? Hells yeah!!

Yeah, dude. Seriously, that is truly a great cover. Very iconic.

This interview is interesting to me. Didio's pretty honest here about what they did right and what they did wrong, which is something of a rarity when you get down to it. I do agree with him regarding the use of Countdown as a brandname; I mean, take Countdown to Mystery for example, the main draw was Dr. Fate (who as far as I know has nothing to do with the main series) with Eclipso as a backup feature. I would say that is branding moreso than a tie-in.

The whole back and forth with Lord Havok and Captain Carrot is a bit much, though -- it's plain to me what's really being said there. But that's just my opinion.

[johnnyrocket]

Like the directon or not you gotta commend him for being accountable and forth coming with actual concerns and issues. Would that Quesada or Brevoort had the stones to say the following:

DD: Exactly. It was also appreciable enough on our side that we felt the momentum of the stories was broken and they were suffering as a result, and readers weren’t able to get in to the stories, or not willing to try the stories. People would say that it would all be fine because it will eventually be collected in a trade, but the bottom line for me is that I’m in the periodical business. We are in the trade business, don’t get me wrong, but I’m in the periodical business. That’s what we do. If you’re putting out 65 books a month, you’re in the periodical business, so you better be periodical. That’s what we had to fix and take more seriously.

[ichorskeeter]

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Meanwhile, what's with the awesome Superman painting up top? That's not Alex Ross, is it?

Of course it is, silly.

[Blind Assassin]

ignore this response.

mistake.