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12-19-2007, 05:19 PM
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TALKING TO PAUL LEVITZ, 2007: PART TWO
 by Matt BradyClick here for part one. We wrap up our year end conversation with DC President and Publisher Paul Levitz today with a look at the various imprints under the DC umbrella. Note – given the tightness of schedules the week before Christmas, we were unable to find a mutually workable time to ask follow-ups, but will be speaking with Levitz again in January to discuss some of the topics brought up herein. Newsarama: Let’s go through the various imprints of DC, and talk about their performance and overall fit within DC. Going in a jumbled order, let’s start with WildStorm. Originally, it was a strong alternate universe to the DC Universe under the eye of Jim Lee, and then licensed books came in, along with creator-owned, and now…it’s hard to put a finger on what defines Wildstorm… Paul Levitz: I don’t think that the “WildStorm Universe” books were ever more than a portion of what the line was. The early days, when we took on Wildstorm, the Cliffhanger line was some of their most successful stuff, and was an experiment that went very well for a period of time. Part of what WildStorm is, that it’s unrestrained innovation. It’s there to try things in a much more experimental fashion than say, the DC Universe. The good news and the bad news about having a cast of characters like the DCU has, or an editorial philosophy that’s as deep as Vertigo’s is that you’ve got your target, and you’re working it. Wildstorm has, for most of the years it’s been with us, has been the place where we’ve tried things. Jim has a particularly open, creative mind, and a lot of those things have won awards, created excitement, and sold a lot of copies. Things as diverse as Cliffhanger and America’s Best Comics, which probably couldn’t be further removed from each other in terms of what made them successful – one very much an artists’ imprint, one very much a writer’s. Jim keeps looking for what the next cool thing will be. There’s a lot of energy at WildStorm these days attached to the digital world - World of Warcraft is successful so far in its launch, but it’s more of a symptom of what’s going on. Since we’ve been involved with the Sony Online gaming project, we’ve got a whole group of people at WildStorm who’ve learned how to create digital assets, and can move through and work with the computer gaming world in a more involved way than DC’s ever been able to before, and that’s led us to a number of different relationships with gaming companies that we think will yield some interesting results over time, some of which will be invisible to the world, and is just work we’re doing with and for them. NRAMA: We’re coming up on 10 years since the acquisition of WildStorm by DC. Is today’s WildStorm still true to the vision of what a WildStorm as part of DC would be? PL: I think where we started with Wildstorm was the desire to be in business with Jim. Jim was then, and I think still is now, one of the most vibrant creative talents in our business, not simply in his personal art and style or in his relationships with other creative people, but in his willingness to get up and get at, and do things that other first string creators are not always willing to do. The results we’ve had from him driving the development of the DC massively multiplayer game project for the last two and half years are something that I don’t think we could have replicated with anyone else in the business. If we hadn’t gotten anything else out of WildStorm in the last almost ten years, I’d be thrilled from that alone. That said, I think John Nee just estimated that WildStorm was going to have its best fourth quarter in 10 or 15 years with the success we’re having in the bookstore market and the comic shops with Heroes and The Black Dossier. They continue to do a number of very diverse, strange and wonderful things – lots of which work, some of which don’t, and that’s okay too. NRAMA: Somewhat connected to WildStorm – CMX. As a whole, how is it performing compared to expectations and within the marketplace? PL: The goal with CMX was to get us into the world of manga and to begin to build the relationships in Japan as we saw them as a growing part of the world of popular culture. It’s done that job – evidenced in part by opening the opportunity for the investment in FLEX Comics, which we think is a very interesting learning experience for us, and will hopefully lead to some very interesting projects both here and overseas. It’s opened up a number of opportunities for us over there as well that we haven’t pursued, but that might not have been available to us otherwise. So the basic bsuienss goals, I think, we’ve met quite nicely. The success of the CMX print line itself has been…okay – not awe inspiring yet, but manga remains a very viable and growing segment fo the market, and hopefully, we’ll continue to improve our track record of what we pick and how we publish, and get a bigger and bigger share of that. We’re not in any danger of overtaking Viz any time soon. NRAMA: I think that was a lot of the reaction when CMX was first announced – “Look out Viz, look out TokyoPop!”… and when it wasn’t that, the imprint took a hit in image (as well as for other issues at the time, too)… PL: It would be pretty ridiculous for someone to assume that they could overtake Viz since they have the base relationship with the two best oil wells in the field. TokyoPop has had years to build their relationships with creators, hone their skill sets as a publisher, and get product out there that people wanted. It’s not shocking that they’re still doing well at it. So, we’re content to be behind the two of them, but hopefully making our own place in the game. NRAMA: Moving on to the MINX line, along with CMX, and to some extent, the graphic novels, it’s a line of DC product which is pretty invisible to the regular DCU reader. So how is it doing, as a line? Obviously, it’s a product designed with a specific audience in mind… PL: We’re happy with year one. We always knew this was going to be a tough business to build, and that it’s a multi-year process to do it. We got one of the projects picked up on option for theatrical development, which was very exciting, and we’ve reached a number of new readers. We still don’t really know how we’re doing in the marketplace completely, because a lot of those copies are going out into returnable businesses and may come back to us. But I think we’re off to an okay start. NRAMA: Over to Vertigo. It’s headed toward twenty years old at this point, and over the past couple of years, it’s been in transition back towards its original roots of “these books should cause vertigo…” How’s your overall view of that line?  PL: I’m incredibly proud of what we’ve built in Vertigo. It’s a larger comics publisher than probably anybody but DC and Marvel, if it were measured on its own…maybe Dark Horse, dependant on the year. Remember the days of Vertigo’s birth, and would you have bet anybody on who’s going to be larger in the long run, Image or Vertigo? I think you would have been laughed out of the room if you had bet on Vertigo. It’s now significantly larger. It also very much was built for the business that has emerged in the last few years and that is growing rapidly. It’s an extraordinarily successful book publisher. The lives of its collections, the skill sets we’ve built in managing that side of the business are serving us well in the rest of the company, and we’re continuing to see new titles that are showing the kind of vitality that indicate those collections will be an enduring part of the backlist as well. I think one thing that underlies a number of your questions that’s interesting – the comic book fan community is historically been used to the idea of keeping a scorecard of success based on a very single dimension: how many titles are in the Top 10, the Top 20 in the comic shops? That’s a great place to be, don’t get me wrong – we’re much happier when we have a fair number of titles in that list. It’s certainly still one of the great ways to have a success in comics. But that’s only one of so many ways to succeed right now. That’s part of what’s dramatically changing the health of the business, and certainly has been a large part in changing DC’s fortunes. A lot of what we’re doing in our new business ventures in the last few years are based on a definition of success that is and should be largely invisible on that chart. NRAMA: And that inability to see that is what’s frustrating? PL: Sure, but it’s a great thing for them, because it enables us to publish wider range of material for them, it enables the creative people in the business to make better livings and to take more chances than they used to. Yeah, it’s lovely to turn on the Sunday news and hear what movie had the biggest box office this weekend, and you say, “Okay – that’s the big success.” But the reality of the movie business is that it also matters how you’re going to do on DVD, and how you did internationally, and whether you can get it played on HBO – all of those different variables. It’s a wonderful thing for comics to have multiple legs to stand on as well. NRAMA: Back to the imprints – let’s hit the big one – the DC Universe. By and large, both the Marvel and the DC Universes have embraced event-driven storytelling. What’s your take on that, both as Publisher and a fan? PL: The first comic I remember buying off the rack was “Crisis on Earth-1/Earth-2”… NRAMA: [laughs] Enough said. PL: So part of me is a sucker for them. As a reader, I think it’s great when it works. It’s a bit of a car wreck when it doesn’t. As a writer, it’s a tremendous pain in the ass. I lived through having to make some uncomfortable adjustments in Legion of Super-Heroes because of what was going on in the multiple universes as they pulled together at different times in my career. But when it works, it’s a really great trick – and we’ve had some success with it in the last couple of years. Marvel has certainly had some success with it this past year. It’s a tough trick to keep pulling off time after time, and we have an ongoing debate here about the weight of energy put into the events versus put into making the books great on a monthly basis. And really, you want to do both tricks well. NRAMA: As part of that ongoing debate, is there discussion of, after two-plus years of event-driven storylines, the event could cease to become a “trick” and more of a status quo, bringing with it an event fatigue on the part of the readers? Or, at least reach a place where the Direct Market needs the events to perform? PL: I don’t know if it’s “event fatigue” on the part of the readers, but like any trick, if you keep doing it over and over, you’re going to not do it well at some point, and the audience will get tired of seeing the same old trick and, if not get up and walk out, at least start shuffling in their seats. You’ve got to vary your game. NRAMA: To date this year, there have been tremendous changes in the DCU and its menagerie of characters, from New Gods being killed to substantial changes within the Superman mythos, Batman re-gaining a son… PL: Stay tuned. NRAMA: Of course – as always. It’s something that Dan DiDio has always expressed when we’ve spoken about editorial responsibilities – the “caretaker” position, that is, DC editorial is there to tell stories, but also, to guide and preserve the characters in a manner of speaking. For you, when you look over the editorial plans, and sit in on the meetings, what causes your needle to go into the red and call a halt to things? PL: You try to look for the things that disturb the essence of the character, and you try to figure out what will make sense as “it’s just a story” and its over, and what people will remember 20 years later as a stupid idea. They give those lovely little “Mopee” awards in CBG periodically, and a lot of the stories they’ve given them to are things that you look back on and ask, “What were we thinking that day?” and you try to not put yourself in a position where it will do that kind of damage. It’s really hard to predict. None of us working on “The Death of Superman” thought that would be an important story. We thought it was just a story. He’s “died” before, he’ll “die” again, but the guys did it really well, and it was a slow news day, and lightning jumped in the bottle. We slammed a cork in, and tried to keep it in that bottle for as long as possible and make it work. The good stuff always has the potential to do good or harm, and you hope the editors are doing it with love and with care. NRAMA: Going back to what I mentioned earlier about you sitting in on meetings, you’ve said before that you’re not really involved in the day-to-day of the DC Universe…. PL: Well, the idea of my gig is to help define what the sandbox ought to be, and then let them play in it. The DCU obviously, has more wonderful properties that are of great value to the company overall, or that are being used by the company in other incarnations, so I’ll be involved more in a conversation about costumes changing or things like that, but the books are, in the end, driven by the tastes, one hopes, of the editorial teams. NRAMA: Going back to the “caretaker” aspect, as you said, you’re the point person when it comes to overseeing the translation of DC characters to other formats…what’s your oversight in that regard, given the importance that’s placed on the characters as intellectual property? PL: When you make a film or a television show, the people who are making it are going to make it wonderful or make it not wonderful. You can’t do that by remote control. The fact that you’re going to (hopefully) be blown away when you see The Dark Knight footage in front of the IMAX version of I Am Legend is because Chris Nolan has in him a little boy who remembers going to the movie theater and seeing how big the movie was, and he wanted to recreate that, and give you that feeling and that passion. So he figured out a way to fit a giant IMAX camera in the back of a car while it was careening all over Chicago streets while watching crooks in clown masks get ready to commit a robbery. Ain’t no way in hell you can do that from my seat. The best you can do is to be a part of the process of discussion of who are the best people who can work on the projects, try and get them all the information they need to understand the characters, spend time talking to them about the characters and answering their questions, and hope that their vision and passion is the right vision and passion. Smallville isn’t the television show that I would have done if I was the writer on it. It’s better in a bunch of ways, it’s different in a bunch of ways, but I’m sitting here staring at a “Smallville Season 7” jacked that arrived this morning, and realizing how long enduring an audience they captured, and how many people they made fall in love with the Superman myth. That’s Miles and Al, and the guys they’ve been working with – Tom Welling and all of the other actors. Each of all of these other media that we’re in, is truly an art form, and the magic happens in a different way. The great fun I get to have, along with Gregory Noveck, who’s our tv and film guy, is to try to work with all of these brilliant, creative people in these different media, and try and dialogue with them about what’s great about the mythology of DC. Turn them on to the best comics that we’ve ever done, talk about what the best incarnations of the characters have ever been, talk about what makes the characters magic and wonderful, and try to spark their imagination in the right way. And then you get to watch this cool stuff. NRAMA: Wrapping things up, earlier, you had mentioned something about DC’s agenda – let’s look ahead to 2008. What’s on DC’s agenda for 2008? What goals have been set already? PL: one of the most important things for our agenda is a seemingly mundane, but a very powerful one – making the Random House relationship work. We do believe that is going to significantly increase the footprint of where our material is sold. We have Dark Knight to make work for 2008, which already looks brilliant, and there’s a giant merchandising program tied to it that the guys are running as hard as they can to get ready. We have Watchmen to finish filming – the stuff we’ve been seeing looks phenomenal. We have all the ancillary strategies to develop around Watchmen to develop, and those are starting to come together now. And hopefully, we have Justice League to get rolling. And we have at least one new line that will come together in ‘08 for an ‘09 release, I think, that will take advantage of some of the changes in our business. NRAMA: A new comic line? PL: Yep. And we have to do our job better in everything we do, because it’s a more competitive, more demanding world out there, the opportunities are larger. We’ve got to rise to that challenge. It’s a very exciting time, but we’ve got to keep going faster, and keep doing it better. NRAMA: Finally – the annual personal question…when are you going to get back to writing? And no “No one wants to read anything I have to write,” or any other of your pat answers… Jim Shooter’s back on Legion, so it seems to be old home week over there… PL: Jim just came back on Legion so he could break the record I had on Justice Society of how long a gap it was between writing the characters. [laughs] NRAMA: and that was the only reason Jim came back? PL: The only one. It was absolutely personal – I can’t imagine any other reason that he took it on. [chuckles] I’m doing a short Legion story with Jim Lee for a book that Jim’s doing as a sort of “art of Jim Lee” collection that he was kind enough to ask me to work with him on. And at the moment, that’s the only piece of serious writing on the agenda. It’s very hard – we still have one kid at home; I travelled more this year than I think in any of the last decade…the more good stuff DC does, the more places I have to be at once, and the harder it is to find serious time at the keyboard. I’d love to be doing more writing – it’s still great fun when I sit down and do it. I did a little piece for Publishing Trends newsletter last week – a whopping 3-400 words. I had fun using the muscles for it, but it’s very hard to find the time. And come on – I’m not sure the world’s sitting there, desperately waiting for it either. I still have enormous fun when I run across my old readers doing interesting thing, coming in and talking with us about projects, and I find them in strange places doing cool and wonderful things with their lives. That’s one of the great, enduring rewards of having written, but I’m not sure if that requires me to be loosing the extra sleep to be writing more today. I love writing, and hope to do large bodies of it again sometime in my life, but it is work after all. Someday…someday. Newsarama has been in contact with Marvel to conduct an equivalent interview with Marvel Publisher Dan Buckley, but has been informed that Buckley is not available for interviews at the present time. |
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12-19-2007, 05:41 PM
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#2 |
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so basically you tolerate Wildstorm to appease Jim Lee?
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12-19-2007, 05:46 PM
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Art of Jim Lee story? Cool!
The only reason Shooter is back on Legion is to break a record? Silly me - I assumed it had somethign to do with how brilliant a writer the man is. |
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12-19-2007, 05:47 PM
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#4 |
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I have never met him, but he seems like a class act.
New comic line from DC? Anyone have any rumors on this? Paging Rich Johnston.....Johnston to the front please.....  |
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12-19-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
and WS's doing DC's MMORPG  |
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12-19-2007, 05:50 PM
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Funny that Levitz uses Vertigo to take a dig at Image, at a time when Image is publishing more great books than ever before. Worried about the opposition, Paul?
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12-19-2007, 05:52 PM
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#7 |
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"I’m doing a short Legion story with Jim Lee for a book that Jim’s doing as a sort of “art of Jim Lee” collection that he was kind enough to ask me to work with him on." - SWEET!
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12-19-2007, 05:57 PM
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#8 |
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Comment about comic 'events'
As far as the so called 'event fatigue', I think he is right that it can be done well (Sinestro War, 52), and can be done poorly (Anyone remember the stink bomb Genesis? Ugh.).
Now I have read that DC will have another year long weekly comic starting at the end of 'Final Crisis'. That would make 3 weekly comic titles in about 3 years give or take. As far as I am concerned, as long as it is written well, and comes out on time, I wouldn't have any problem getting it. They have succeeded with 52 and Countdown thus far, so DC has proven that they can do it. You know what they say about threequals right? I am just worried about quality I guess. I am not trying to cast stones. I LOVED 52, and I am enjoying Countdown, so I can safely say that I will probably try it again. Keep up the great work DC! |
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12-19-2007, 05:58 PM
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If you look at all the lines, companies and imprints that cropped up when Image opened up the market, how many are left? For Vertigo to have survived period was a job, to have thrived is a feat indeed. |
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12-19-2007, 06:02 PM
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12-19-2007, 06:08 PM
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Yes, but the difference then and now is that they were clearly labeled back then. Alan Moore's stuff was "America's Best Comics" and the creator owned books were the Homage and Cliffhanger lines. Even just a year and a half ago, there was a clear distinction between the "Wildstorm Universe" and the creator owned "Wildstorm Signature" line. Nowadays you can't tell. Did the Highwaymen take place in the Wildstorm U? Is March's The New Dynamix a Wildstorm Universe title? I don't know. I can't say that I care that much personally, but I tend to think accurate labeling is a good idea. Quote:
It is nice to see that someone at DC understands this conceptually. But why aren't you doing more about it practically? You aren't doing any favors to the experimental line by connecting it to the traditional DC universe. That's simply the wrong target audience. But you do have another imprint for unrestrained innovation: Vertigo. Books like Sleeper, Planetary, Wildcats 3.0, the Authority, Highwaymen and Stormwatch: PHD will be much more appealing to a Vertigo audience than a traditional DCU one. Previewing a Wildstorm book in Fables or Y the Last Man would be a lot more beneficial to Wildstorm than having Apollo get his ass kicked by a c-lister like The Ray in Countdown: Arena. Last edited by Stalzer2002 : 12-19-2007 at 06:11 PM. |
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12-19-2007, 06:13 PM
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I think it was an observation, not a dig, and I really doubt he's worried. If you want to take it as a dig, it's one that's hard to argue with. Line-wide Image can't really compare with Vertigo. |
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12-19-2007, 06:15 PM
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12-19-2007, 06:15 PM
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Highwaymen was creator owned...and The New Dynamix is a new mini set in the WSU as the synopsis says...but I agree. In an interview with Ben Abernathy, he said they're going to try and go back to "accurate labeling" |
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12-19-2007, 06:22 PM
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#15 | ||
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Quote:
Better?  Quote:
Who? The "clana" fans? I don't think so, m&ms or no m&ms... Last edited by supes0 : 12-19-2007 at 06:25 PM. |
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12-19-2007, 06:26 PM
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Rorschach breakfast cereal. It's sort of like Cocoa Puffs, but always forms symmetrical patterns in the bowl. "Cereal so good, you'll say 'Hurm.'" |
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12-19-2007, 06:26 PM
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I disagree. I see nothing interesting coming out of Image. I find more interesting things at Dark Horse and Vertigo. |
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12-19-2007, 06:27 PM
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first of all, SOMEBODY better get in here and tell me that part of the last sentence DID NOT HAPPEN.  second of all, i think you are pretty much on the money with that assessment -- by definition, mixing Wildstorm and DC for an extended period is just not a good idea. Midnighter on his best day is still a killer. Batman on his worst day is not. Apollo on his best day will still punch your head off. Superman, on his worst day, will not. i'll speak for myself here: i read Wildstorm because those are the stories that mainstream comics will NOT do. i loved Planetary, hence the avatar/screen name. sooooo...why do i like that? one of the reasons was watching Warren Ellis probe exactly what the Four were, as rough analogies to the Fantastic Four. what they would be like if they were corrupted, dark and twisted. who would stand against them? and why? for what gain? to what end? what will they do to win? see, i'm not going to get that in Reed Richards vs. Doctor Doom, part 68. and you know what? i'm FINE with that. i want Fantastic Four to fit in its basic parameters when i pick it up. Wildstorm is where creators should...create. tell stories. let the readers decide what they like, and what they don't. but making them another brand of the mainstream universe? why? you only lessen the one and don't strengthen the other. |
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12-19-2007, 06:29 PM
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#19 |
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WATCHMEN 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO #1
Written by Judd Winick Art by Rob Liefeld Cover by Alex Ross On sale August xx • 1 of 12 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US |
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12-19-2007, 06:30 PM
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Agreed, making the WSU part of DC's 52 was a horrible idea. |
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12-19-2007, 06:31 PM
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Wildstorm
yeah what's it all about?? It's pretty much aimless and ill defined. It always seemed to me to be the bastard child of the Marvel Universe with a lot of knock off concepts and later became better/more defined by the likes of Alan Moore on WildCATS. Now though...there've been relaunches and new #1's and other concepts that are just gone (Union, Brass, Adventures of Max Faraday, etc). I think Jim Lee needs to sh!t or get off the pot (no, not the smokey kind...the porcelain kind) and make a place for his imprint within DC or let someone else go in and do before it just become more convoluted and murky why it's there other than ego stroking. I was hoping to hear some discussion about DC All Star titles...All Star Superman has gotten some pretty great reviews/fan feedback, All Star Batman...not so much...with All Star Wonder Woman on the way and rumors of other titles I was curious to know how the company was viewing the endeavor...while it wasn't supposed to be their Ultimate Universe I do think it was meant to generate that interest and sales level. Still wishin I'd hear something about Titans:Games being restarted/finished  |
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12-19-2007, 06:36 PM
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#22 | |
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Dear Lord...that sound...that HAS TO BE the internet cracking in half. (except the Ross cover would be awesome!) |
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12-19-2007, 06:38 PM
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#23 |
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The two things I probably would have asked if I was doing the interview:
In regards to Vertigo: While he was talking bout how well the books obviously do in trade I probably would have brought up what he thinks about the larger number of trade waiters that Vertigo has and how that may be the reason a book fails (American Virgin) because that's how they'd rather support it and how he thinks they can capitalize on that theory. What about an ongoing series that essentially is nothing but quarterly well priced OGN's to use as a test? Then when talking about the Dark Knight and other Hollywood movies: I wonder if DC feels any sense of responsiblity for who gets hired and what they say about the films and the source material during the filming. As much as I can't wait to see Dark Knight, you know what I keep thinking of more than the trailer? The fact that both Nolan and Bale have been on record as going "I never liked what they're doing in the comics. I want my own version. I don't read the current stuff." I'm finding a lot of comic book writers never want to read comics anymore and think they're childish. (While the people getting the autographs at conventions are more closer to their age then ever before). Just wondering if there's any kind of protectability Mr. Levitz (and DC) feel toward the characters in regards to when statements like that are made. |
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12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
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#24 |
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Very nice interview.
I wonder what the new line will be? Romance, A version of what the Dabel's had at Marvel, A relaunch of the Richie Rich Casper line, A "From Hollywood" line...so many things it could be...can't wait to find out. |
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12-19-2007, 06:42 PM
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#25 |
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"A new comic line?"!
A line of literary comics in the vein of Pantheon or Fantagraphics, please! Pretty please! ANYTHING not genre-oriented, for the love of God. I know... It's not very likely. |
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