JOE CASEY: BRINGING BACK THE DEFENDERS

[MattBrady]

Back on December 3rd, Marvel Executive Editor Tom Brevoort posted a page from a “secret project” at his blog at Marvel.com. Brevoort made no comment about the image which featured Nighthawk in bad-guy fighting action.

Given Nighthawk’s previous allegiances, speculation ran to the notion that the image might be from a yet-to-be announced Defenders project.

We’re here to tell you that speculation is sometimes right, and this is one of those times. In March, The Last Defenders, a six issue miniseries, will debut from Marvel, written by Joe Casey.

Ah, the Defenders – the lovable non-team of a team, founded by the Hulk, Doctor Strange, the Silver Surfer and Namor in Marvel Feature #1 (1971). Even at the time, it felt like a collection of characters that had no business being together. Over the decades, membership has fluxuated wildly, the “founders” have come and gone, the team’s been ripped apart, re-formed. It even has its cult-favorite days under the pen of writer Steve Gerber who pushed the team and its concept in all kinds of strange new directions.

Since the original series ended in 1986, the team has had three relaunches (with one, “Secret” Defenders becoming the butt of more than a few jokes about comics of the ‘90s), each, admittedly products of their respective times, and each…kinda ‘eh.’

To say the bar is set pretty high and the target audience is skeptical…yeah, that’s pretty accurate.

We spoke with the writer about the miniseries and the team.

Newsarama: Whoa, Joe - so...The Defenders. Since this is coming in from (somewhat) left field, let's get started with the traditional before we dig in a little - how did this get rolling? Was this something that you approached Marvel with, or did Marvel knock on your door to see what you would do with the concept?

Joe Casey: This thing has been in the works for awhile, so the details may be a little fuzzy. Needless to say, all of the Marvel projects I've written in the past few years -- from Earth's Mightiest Heroes through First Family and the two Iron Man minis -- have, for me, been part of a long journey that's brought me to this book. The idea of bringing back the Defenders has been talked about quite a bit, with Marvel looking for just the right approach to justify pulling the trigger. But honestly, it was when Steve Wacker came to Marvel and showed interest in the project that things really started to move. He was interested in doing the same kind of book that I was. Sometimes that's all it takes...

NRAMA: Not to take a shot at the team, but historically, the Defenders is one of those books that you'll hear clamoring for to come back, and then when it's back, fans tend to look around at each other asking, "Who asked for this?" What's your take on the fan love this team idea engenders as well as the misfires it’s seen over the years?

JC: Your assessment of the Catch-22 where the original Defenders are concerned is, in my opinion, right on the money. There are definitely those fans who cry out to see Dr. Strange, the Hulk, Namor and the Silver Surfer hanging out together, doing their non-team thing. And when they get their wish... well, not much happens. It's nostalgia fueling desire, but the results never seem to match expectations, no matter how good the comics are. The last mini-series was a blast -- and no one loves the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire triumvirate more than me -- but the cold, hard fact is that I don't think that particular gathering of characters ever had the long-term chemistry that makes for great team books. Enough extremely talented creators have tried to make it work... and it simply hasn't. Not from a story standpoint or from a marketing standpoint. It's a tough sell, no matter what. Obviously, some fans will question why those big name characters -- the "classic" members -- aren't in our book... and the answer is actually an intrinsic part of the story. Beyond that, I honestly think it's more a situation where fans generally love superhero team books. I know I do. On any given month, over half of the top ten spots on the Diamond sales charts are team books. In October, four out of the top five. But it's got to be the right team. And the right creative and character chemistry.

NRAMA: Okay, that said, what kind of book will your Defenders be? First and foremost, can you clear up the title for us? It's not just simply "The Defenders" is it?

JC: Right. It's called The Last Defenders. Hasn't the whole "New" thing been completely played out? No doubt, this will be the start of a new trend. Be on the look out for The Last Avengers and The Last Fantastic Four after this. Again, there's a specific story reason for the series title. As for the kind of book it'll be... the Defenders have never been definitive. The concept -- within the Marvel Universe -- has always been kind of ephemeral, I think to its detriment. So, we're going to lock it down, make them as solid a team as they've ever been. After all, as the title suggests, this will be the last -- the final -- version of this team.

NRAMA: So it's the last Defenders team - who makes the cut?

JC: Well, that's the big question, isn't it? Who is actually on the team? Here's all I'm willing to say right now... when the March solicitations hit and the cover for #1 gets out, it's going to get very interesting in multiple corners of Marvel fandom. And I can't wait.

NRAMA: That said, what kind of team is/are the Defenders? Even when they were a real "team" back through the '70s and '80s, they were only a "team" in the loosest sense...no meetings, someone's house was their headquarters, and of course, no battle cry...

JC: Yeah, the whole "non-team" thing. A strange marketing hook, even back in the 70's. Actually, it was really one of the first deconstructions of the team concept. At Marvel, especially. Unfortunately, since then the deconstructions have come fast and furious. I could count at least five current series at Marvel that take the team book idea and turn it on its head. Some of their biggest, in fact. But that leaves a real void that we want this book to fill... a classic superhero team, but still sleek and modern and ready to become the next preeminent team book.

NRAMA: Historically speaking, how did that looseness work both for them and against them?

JC: It worked for them because it made them completely unique at Marvel at the time. On the other hand, I think it ultimately worked against them because the Defenders never became an institution. Not in the fans' eyes and not within the Marvel Universe, either. We want to change that.

NRAMA: Speaking of the Defender’s original “uniqueness,” it probably could be argued that a lot of what [writer] Steve Gerber did in his run was the bread and butter for many present day creators, and, while it was avant garde in the '70s, a lot if relatively old hat now. How do you find something new under the sun so that this hearkens back to it's original days, but at the same time doesn't feel retread of a retread?

JC: There's also the added benefit (read sarcasm there, folks) of my not having read most of Gerber's Marvel work until way after the fact. When I finally did read it in back issues, I obviously really dug it, but it's not necessarily a big part of my DNA. I think -- and it appears some folks at Marvel agree -- that another round of Strange/Hulk/Namor/Surfer would feel like, as you say, a retread of a retread. And something is only avant garde when it flies in the face of the current trend, which this book certainly does, at least at Marvel. But I'll concede one strong element we share with the 70's Gerber stuff... the unpredictability of those comics. I don't think anyone will be able to predict where this series is going (and consider that an open invitation for readers to try... that's where the fun is). It feels new to me, and I'd like to think I'm a decent barometer for this stuff. Not a lot of stuff has felt new lately, a feeling that I see vibrating through the readership.

NRAMA: Your saying this will be a "classic superhero team" - what do you map that out to? Are we talking about the Big 7 of the JLA? The more military-team structure of the Avengers? What are some of the elements of a "classic superhero team?"

JC: I'll give you three elements off the top of my head: First of all, versatility. The flexibility to tell almost any kind of story. Wolfman/Perez were masters at this. One month, the Teen Titans were in space with the Omega Men fighting Starfire's evil sister and the next they're dealing with teenage runaways, real street-level stuff. Second, a membership that allows access and inroads to several areas of the superhero universe they operate in. The Avengers are the real example there, with well-respected heroes, reformed super-villains, mutants, androids and characters created specifically for the series comprising the lineup. Again, these are great jumping off points for any number of stories. Third and finally, the scope. Whether its universe-spanning scope or simply emotional scope, classic team books meet the big stuff head-on.

NRAMA: And to keep things crystal clear, even though your recent work at Marvel has been set in the past, this is in the present-day Marvel U, correct? How does this team work in a world with the Initiative, Skrulls, and all the rest?

JC: This book takes place right now. And if the SHRA and the Fifty-State Initiative didn't exist, this team of Defenders wouldn't exist. Whatever is going on in the Marvel Universe will definitely be filtered through this book, whether it's post-Civil War politics or secret (and not-so-secret) invasions. Of course, we'll have our own unique take on these events... but that has more to do with the cast of characters involved and how *they* respond to the world they live in.

NRAMA: Where will these guys be located?

JC: By my count, there are at least forty states not yet accounted for in the Fifty-State Initiative. Odds are, the Defenders will end up in one of them.

NRAMA: What will the rest of the Marvel U think of them ?

JC: Good question. With the lineup we've got, it's definitely a break from the idea of training young heroes at Camp Hammond to eventually staff teams all over the country. This is a decidedly different beast, and a first in the post-Civil War Marvel U. We've seen teams both pro- and anti- but the world simply isn't that black and white, not even in comic books. It's time we started exploring the gray areas...

NRAMA: Putting you on a present-day team book in the Marvel U. That last time that happened, you were writing Uncanny. What's the attraction for you to come back to this particular setting?

JC: I don't think I ever considered Uncanny to be a "team book" in the same that Avengers or The New Teen Titans were team books. Those are the books I grew up on and those are the books that inform our approach here. I love the Marvel Universe and this particular kind of team book, involving this many characters, gives us a chance to explore just about every area of it. The scope of this series is pretty far reaching.

NRAMA: Given your unconventional style and outlook on teams, superheroes and comics in general, I think there are more than a few parallels to be drawn between you and Steve Gerber in tackling the team...but in your view...are you holding anything up as an inspiration for your work here, either as a bar to reach for, or a foundation to build on?

JC: Steve Gerber's the man, no doubt about it. I love his run on the book. The Headmen, the Badoon, the Sons of the Serpent. Great, weird stuff. And we definitely tip our hat to Gerber's work in our series, right off the bat. But I love most of the writers who worked on the original series... from Englehart to Wein to Gerber to Kraft to DeMatteis. They were all great. But our book isn't about trying to recreate any of those eras. And I get my weirdness groove on my own creator-owned books like GØDLAND. Like I said, what we're doing with The Last Defenders is the kind of classic team book that Marvel hasn't had in years. I think it's funny that my style is seen as unconventional, since Shooter/Michelinie's Avengers, the Wolfman/Perez TITANS, Morrison's JLA, etc. are all significant influences that I've been waiting to unleash on the right project. You'd think it was the simplest thing in the world to write a straightforward superhero team book... but there's a tone you find in the best of them, a chemistry of characters that just feels right. That's what we're going for. I can't really stress this enough... one of the core themes of the book concerns the chemistry of the team.

NRAMA: Speaking of you and Marvel...this is what...roughly ten years since, as this punk kid, you landed on Cable, right?

JC: Hard to believe, but yeah. Cable #51, my first real work for Marvel, hit stands in December 1997. And here I am, heading into 2008 and finally getting to write exactly the kind of book I've always wanted to write at Marvel. I'm pretty f**kin' psyched.

Check back with Newsarama on Wednesday, December 19th as we talk to Joe again about the miniseries, and the team members.

[FilterKing]

Love the Defenders and love Joe Casey's work. This is win/win.

[skinnyboy23]

That's great and all, but who's the artist?

[Zhen Dil Oloth]

Loved the Defenders. So I am curious to see this.

And I too wonder who is the artist.

[Hoggoth]

Wait??? I thought the Defenders were back? Oh wait a minute thats the NEW AVENGERS...My bad.

[BornToRun]

Intriguing, but I'm a hard sell on Marvel books, and without any kind of lineup hints it's hard to get excited. I guess keep our eyes peeled...!

[Clem]

But i really liked that last Defenders mini with Strange/Hulk/Namor/Surfer.

"Retread of a retread" my arse.

[Hand213]

Love me some Defenders, but I am curious as to why Casey didn't consider Uncanny a team book in the same sense. Joe, if you check these boards at all (as some writers do), can you elaborate on that?

[Aquajacket]

Thank you, Joe Casey.

I hope this book sells well, because I think Marvel should be doing more books that fit the profile JC describes.

[Punchy]

I am so on board for this, Joe Casey is the man.

Plus, grey areas, I'm all about the grey areas.

[Counterparts]

Awesome!

I just re-read Essential Defenders #1 this past week! And Joe Casey is brilliant! Can't wait for this series. Like all things Marvel, "The Last" is never the "The Last" and "The End" is never "The End". Let's hope this series takes Marvel and its readers by storm and that a regular Defenders series emerges!

I do hope we get to see Dr. Strange, Namor, the Hulk and the Surfer in this book. Honestly I could do without Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Hellcat and the others. But as long as the original 4 are in the book, I'm okay with it!

It must take a really talented writer to do the Defenders in a way that really catches on. I wonder why? Defenders has the coolest name and the coolest concept! With the original 4, you have the mightiest mortals representing the spiritual, water, land and space, 4 essential elements to reality. Shouldn't be too hard to write killer stories with these 4 "defending" these 4 aspects of all we know! Still scratchin' my head wondering why it hasn't worked for so long!

Go get 'em Casey!

[Chris Weston]

Casey, why am I not drawing this?

[Comic-Reader]

He seems to want to accomplish a lot for a series that is only slated to last 6 issues, but good luck.

I'm kind of not into Marvel right now because I feel that all their books are telling the same story with the Initiative stuff and every hero essentially being a government stooge, so I'll be passing on this.

[IllShogun]

If Joe Casey's writing it, I'm there. Pretty much everything he's done at Marvel has been good, IMHO. Anybody know who's drawing it, though?

I almost forgot about that Defenders series that came out a few years ago. Wasn't it written and drawn by Erik Larsen? It was pretty terrible until it became The Order and the Hulk, Strange, Surfer, and Namor tried to take over the world. That was sick.

[red-maverick]

Joe Casey is an awsome writer and I can't say he's done anything I hated. Hopefully he makes and interesting Defenders book and hopefully it can become an ongioing in the future.

It must take a really talented writer to do the Defenders in a way that really catches on. I wonder why? Defenders has the coolest name and the coolest concept! With the original 4, you have the mightiest mortals representing the spiritual, water, land and space, 4 essential elements to reality. Shouldn't be too hard to write killer stories with these 4 "defending" these 4 aspects of all we know! Still scratchin' my head wondering why it hasn't worked for so long!

I'd say it's because they're connected to a whole bunch of other parts of the Marvel Universe. Like you said with the elements those are all extremes and the characters have to be concerned with those things. Namor's got to deal with Atlantis and the problems that come with ruling it, especially with the recent developments in the mini. Silver Surfer has got to deal with being Galactus' herald now, as of annihilation. Strange is on the run from the law with the New Avengers. A lot of stuff is just going on with Hulk now.

I really don't think it would work now.

[thud2000]

I was always partial to the "New Defenders" lineup myself, with Beast, Iceman, Gargoyle, Cloud etc. Gargoyle would be a great character to bring back.

[Marius665]

let's see;
Doctor Strange(New Avengers baby!)
The Hulk(red now a days, so no)
Namor(living with Dr. Doom)
Silver Surfer(not a chance)
Nighthawk(probably will lead the team)
Valkyrie(dead)
Hellcat(most likely will be on the new team)
Clea(seen in Witches mini but also stays in the Dark Demension)
Hellstorm(MIA)
Moondragon(in Conquest)
Gargoyle(at Camp Hammond)
Andromeda(some where in Atlantis, but it's gone now so I dont know)
Iceman(X-Men)
Angel(X-Men)

[artiepants]

I'm curious about this one ~ i'm not a huge Casey fan or anything (nor do i have anything against him...), but it sounds like it's got potential.

Originally Posted by Counterparts

I do hope we get to see Dr. Strange, Namor, the Hulk and the Surfer in this book. Honestly I could do without Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Hellcat and the others. But as long as the original 4 are in the book, I'm okay with it!:

well, obviously nighthawks in it from the preview page, and from the interview and the state of politics/goings-ons within the Marvel U i doubt you're gonna see the original 4 in it.

Originally Posted by Hoggoth

Wait??? I thought the Defenders were back? Oh wait a minute thats the NEW AVENGERS...My bad.

...this joke's almost as played as 'Not Avengers'

[DJ_Convoy]

Awesome news, Joe.

And Chris, I wish you were drawing this, too.

[Thephanboy]

wow didnt expect this. cant wait to pick this up and read this mini series. should be a blast.

[Hoggoth]

Originally Posted by artiepants

...this joke's almost as played as 'Not Avengers'

Yeah but it's true...

[thorionthei]

This is a WIN/WIN. I've been waiting for Casey to do this or an Avengers book. I'm a team book guy and everything he says is stuff I always thought of as well.


What I like about him is while he enjoys the old school he is not old school. I couldn't handle another Defenders old school retread. No offense to those creators who took the old and didn't do anything new with it. Gerber and Engleheart had imagination!

I like my Defenders wierd. Almost think this is the book that was invented for Morrison. Hope we see classic, wierd, and new stuff!!!

[thorionthei]

Membership? Hellcat and Nighthawk. I am guessing Valkyrie and maybe Gargoyle.

After that? Off the beaten path maybe? Sleepwalker? Bill Foster's nephew?

[Gladiator X]

Frellin SWEET!


I love the Defenders almost as much as I love The Avengers and I am totally jazzed about this book!

Joe Casey is about the only pro in comics that seems to think the same way as I do about comics and I am so looking forward to him writing a "classic team book" in the MU.
Hopefully this will do well enough to become a regular series.

[Counterparts]

Originally Posted by red-maverick

Joe Casey is an awsome writer and I can't say he's done anything I hated. Hopefully he makes and interesting Defenders book and hopefully it can become an ongioing in the future.



I'd say it's because they're connected to a whole bunch of other parts of the Marvel Universe. Like you said with the elements those are all extremes and the characters have to be concerned with those things. Namor's got to deal with Atlantis and the problems that come with ruling it, especially with the recent developments in the mini. Silver Surfer has got to deal with being Galactus' herald now, as of annihilation. Strange is on the run from the law with the New Avengers. A lot of stuff is just going on with Hulk now.

I really don't think it would work now.

Ah . . . . but that's the beauty of it all! If the Hulk can lead the Warbound against the Illuminati and the Earth, if Namor can lead Atlantis against the Earth, if Surfer can lead Galactus against the Earth, then why can't Strange (the original leader) unite the other three to "defend" the earth from similar or dissimilar problems all at once? It would make an awesome cross over! The irony would be delicious! And after all, this is comics! Nothing is impossible!