TALKING PIRATES WITH GORE VERBINSKI

[MattBrady]

by Steve Fritz

His bio lists Kafka and Black Sabbath as influences. In person he cites Hayao Miyazaki and Salvador Dali. Before he made his bones creating the Budweiser frogs, he played guitar in a punk band with future members of Bad Religion and the Vandals. His father really was a nuclear physicist who hailed from Poland before marrying and having him in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

It’s clues like these that go a long way towards explaining Gore (formerly Gregor) Verbinski’s eclectic approach to filmmaking. The publicity shy director held a roundtable with media, ranging from fannish and high level pro, just before Thanksgiving. Ostensibly it was to plug the DVD release of the third Pirates of the Caribbean film, At World’s End. Yet it was interesting to see what he would open up to and where he would clam up. Verbinski, for one, liked answering questions that showed a tad more thought than the usual stock stuff.

“Visual effects are a tool in the filmmakers toolbox,” he admitted. “Once you become acquainted with them they cease to be distracting. I always try to keep story foremost in my mind while shooting.”

He also seems to both love and hate what he could do with them. For instance, in the latest movie he admits his favorite scene was the “crab” scene involving Captain Jack and the Black Pearl in their salt flat hell.

“Johnny (Depp) and I love pushing Jack as far as he can go,” said Verbinski, “but we are also aware that keeping him unpredictable requires an constant oscillation between the dramatic and the absurd. So, it's both spurs and reigns…constantly.

“I have always been fascinated by the work of Miyazaki. When we needed to get the Black Pearl back to the ocean, I thought, why are we limited to the rules of live action film making? Once those shackles are off, it is quite liberating. All sorts of ideas start to germinate. The crab is Tia Dalma's motif. Why not do something surreal and connected to her? Giving his escape a subtextual intention.”

He also admitted putting together the showstopping maelstrom sequence was a true nightmare.

“Definitely,” he exclaimed, “the biggest issue hit us about eight weeks prior to the release. We were suffering from a scaling issue that seemed insurmountable. The physics of a whirlpool this size overwhelmed the team at ILM. The path we were heading down was not achieving the desired results so it all had to be reworked. The initial rendered backgrounds were used as out of focus plates for close ups which bought us time by getting 100 or so shots in the pipeline and allowed us to completely rethink and re-render the maelstrom for all of the wide shots. This is the exact opposite of how you would normally go about producing this sequence. John Knoll and the team at ILM ultimately pulled it off, but it was a real nail biter.”

But ask him what he had the most fun doing during the film? Why playing guitar on the score.

“That was a blast!,” he exclaimed, but my contribution is a pimple on the ass of a tick crawling along the ankle of a behemoth endeavor. Hans Zimmer and his entire team did all the work.”

But the real truth about Gore Verbinski is just how much thought he put into the entire Pirates project.

“The first film was originally designed as a one-off,” said Verbinski. “We were so under the radar because honestly I don't think anyone thought we could resurrect the genre. After the success of Curse of the Black Pearl we set about reverse engineering a trilogy. Some loose ends from the first film became assets in the process: Bootstrap Bill for instance, the 'P' brand on Jack's arm, the mention of the East India Trading Company, etc. Other ideas like the Kraken and Davy Jones were discussed during the development of POTC1 but abandoned as that film took shape, and resurrected for the subsequent films once we knew were making them. Yet whenever you set out to make a film, I think you have the obligation to create characters that feel as if they come from other stories. Even Pintel and Ragetti have their own origins and destinations. (Scriptwriters) Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio are well versed in mythology and I enjoyed collaborating with them all the way up until each scene was photographed.”

From there, it’s interesting to see how Verbinski applied what he did with what Elliot and Rossio dreamed up.

“The creative process is complex,” he started. “I try to be specific and deliberate as I storyboard and pre-visualize the entire film. Yet, I am constantly aware that this process can make a film cold and clinical. I try to remain open to gifts that a little bit of randomness can provide along the way. The contributions of others is essential in creating that particular form of 'controlled chaos.' The napkin drawing is a starting point from which I encourage evolution. Most of the time the concept remains intact but execution shifts dramatically.

“Most of the time the initial response from the producers or crew, when viewing the storyboards, was that this sequence was unachievable. But when you have the best in the business working with you, and you are willing to break apart each shot into it's components, the impossible eventually becomes a reality.

“Yes, the making of the Maelstrom gives you a small window into the complexity of creating and executing a sequence that has never been accomplished before,” Verbinski admitted. “Months in planning and 8 weeks of shooting required a synergy between stunts, camera, practical effects and visual effects. Day after day we were operating amid 100 miles per hour winds, cascading rain and debris, deafening cannon fire with 150 sword wielding stuntmen battling across two undulating vessels on the largest gimbals ever constructed for filming. Although artificially created, practically speaking, we were filming a battle within a massive storm. I think the viewer will get a good sense of what everyone went through to bring this to the big screen.”

If the fans didn’t, Verbinski also reminded everyone present that they shot both films in an extremely tight schedule.

“At World's End had to be in theaters 10 months after Dead Man's Chest,” said Verbinski. “Hectic? How about insane? By the time (we were shooting the maelstrom) in production of P2 and P3 we had been shooting for close to 200 days. I think everyone was exhausted, but when the wind and the rain come on you wake up quickly. Fortunately the cast and crew found their stride enabling us to work intuitively throughout the madness.”

Still, probably the most important element of this entire trilogy is Verbinski drew on another source for further inspiration, the classic pirate movies of yore.

“There is a wonderful moment in The Black Pirate where Douglas Fairbanks Sr. cuts the sail and is blown up to the yardarm,” he recalled. “They achieved this by reverse printing the shot. During the maelstrom sequence we have a similar moment when Jack Sparrow attempts to escape from Jones. Yet with today's technology, I feel we were able to achieve a far greater sense of scale. Pirate films are full of moments that we tip our hat to from time to time in celebrating the genre. The Crimson Pirate, Captain Blood and The Black Pirate are a few of my favorites.

“I think Hollywood invention has always been somewhat limitless. You may have relied on a bit of claymation, filmed lizards for dinosaurs, or depicted Chuck Heston parting the seas but what continues to change is execution: design aesthetic and photo realism continue to evolve. For me the limits have always resided with our imagination. The struggle is to conceive something unique. If you can achieve this, then the underlying concept or idea even badly executed, will always outshine the polished cliche.

Speaking of cliché, Verbinski also tackled the concept of the Disney cliches, replete with supposed happy endings.

“It is interesting to me that Disney as a brand is somehow equated with 'happy meals and soccer moms,'” he said. “Yet Walt Disney was well aware of the necessity of drama within a narrative. He made Bambi; and Old Yeller both of which had their grim moments that were essential in creating the emotional stakes of those pictures. I think we have remained true to the brand and the folks running the studio today were kind enough to let me stand by these principles.”

But like the final conclusion of At World’s End, Verbinski also sees the film as a statement about the future of filmmaking.

“What I meant to imply is that the process of filming is changing,” he said. “More and more we are relying on the computer to create the worlds we see on the screen. The crew of all three films is the best I have ever worked with and we are all tipping our hat to a process that is fading away. I'm a fan of the small film really, of the process of traveling to locations, getting dirt under your fingernails and working with people within the elements. P3 was big, but it was also an incredible amalgamation of low tech and high tech. The physical part of this process is sadly diminishing. Ironically this is the exact thematic that At World's End deals with: It is the end of an era.”

And from the sounds of things, even though there are rumors of further adventures of Captain Jack Sparrow—replete with an open-ended part of the film—Verbinski sounds like the series has reached its end.

“I think the trilogy is now complete,” said Verbinski. “All of the stories set in motion by the first film have been resolved. If there ever were another Pirates of the Caribbean film, I would start fresh and focus on the further adventures of Captain Jack Sparrow.”

So while there’s still no authoritative source that says a Pirates 4 is in the works, one shouldn’t be surprised if Verbinski will have some great eye candy planned for us about two years from now.

Pirates of the Caribbean At World’s End is due out on DVD December 4th.

[Marc_Spector]

First?

Can't wait for the final film to hit DVD. The first was easily the best, than 3 than 2.

[genetic freak]

I've seen the film critically blasted all over the internet and in real life. I however enjoyed it immensely and thought it was one of the better tentpole flicks of 2007.

[Switch625]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Pirates franchise. I love the characters and I love the world they've created. I can't wait for this DVD and I'll happily double dip for whatever treasure chest-sized box set comes out in the future. Hoist the colors!

"If there ever were another Pirates of the Caribbean film, I would start fresh and focus on the further adventures of Captain Jack Sparrow.”

That's the only way to go. The trilogy was Will and Elizabeth's story and it just happened that Captain Jack was the breakout character. If, and when, the 4th movie comes out, it has to be mainly about Sparrow. And hopefully Barbossa, Pintel and Rigetti and crew will be along for the ride.

[Sam Ridyard]

What a random interview to have on a comic book website...
Enjoyable, but very odd.

[sfritz]

Originally Posted by Sam Ridyard

What a random interview to have on a comic book website...
Enjoyable, but very odd.

Not really...if you read Watchmen anyway. -s

[Ace]

I really, really love the writers' commentary on these dvds.

[hlbimage]

Love to see GORE VERBINSKI direct a superhero movie. How about Wonder Woman?

[kingofcities]

Great interview Steve. Loved the Pirates flicks. The Ring was great as well. Looking forward to what Verbinski puts together next.

[Blackbeard]

Excellent interview, Steve.

I would have liked to read (hear?) a definitive answer on a Cap'n Jack Sparrow movie, but I guess that will be forthcoming... I hope.

[The D]

This is one of those no HD-DVDs, isn't it?

[Switch625]

Originally Posted by The D

This is one of those no HD-DVDs, isn't it?

Yeah, Disney's Blu Ray exclusive.

[Somebody]

Uh... isn't this a comics site? Some stuff has been... tentative... of late, but this doesn't even pretend to have a comics angle.

[kingofcities]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Uh... isn't this a comics site? Some stuff has been... tentative... of late, but this doesn't even pretend to have a comics angle.

Do not question the overlords.

[SMARTASS8]

Pirates is like The Matrix, great franchise if you stop watching after the first movie.

IMHO, of course.

[I.M.C.]

At World's End was a great wrap up to the trilogy, and I hope Disney doesn't get too money grubbing and want to do another. Besides, over the summer I had read about rumors that Verbinski, Elliot, Rossio, and Bruckhiemier's next big project will be to bring the Lone Ranger to the big screen. After seeing how Elliot and Rosio made Zorro cool for the moderen audience, I'll be line for that one. Then I'd love to see the Pirates team work on a project that Mssrs.Elliot and Rossio scripted but never got off the ground, and ended up getting screwed up by Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin. GODZILLA.

[SMARTASS8]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Uh... isn't this a comics site? Some stuff has been... tentative... of late, but this doesn't even pretend to have a comics angle.

Maybe Newsarama is taking their cues from Entertainment Wee.... uh, I mean Wizard Magazine.

[MadBandit]

Originally Posted by SMARTASS8

Maybe Newsarama is taking their cues from Entertainment Wee.... uh, I mean Wizard Magazine.

I don't think Newsarama would stoop that low...

[Uchiha_Prodigy]

Originally Posted by SMARTASS8

Pirates is like The Matrix, great franchise if you stop watching after the first movie.

IMHO, of course.

Going to have to dissagree. At World's End was much better than Dead Man's Chest. The Matrix shouldve been a stand a lone movie. It didnt need sequels. At World's End felt massive. My problem with Dead Man's Chest was the 30 min chase scene for the chest. My only problem with At World's End was Calipso and her horribly fake accent.

Depp's arguments with himself in AWE made up for DMC.

[SMARTASS8]

Originally Posted by MadBandit

I don't think Newsarama would stoop that low...

I hope not since this is the only comic site I frequent, and I've recently given up on Wizard and ToyFare due to their new "focus".

[SMARTASS8]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Prodigy

Going to have to dissagree. At World's End was much better than Dead Man's Chest. The Matrix shouldve been a stand a lone movie. It didnt need sequels. At World's End felt massive. My problem with Dead Man's Chest was the 30 min chase scene for the chest. My only problem with At World's End was Calipso and her horribly fake accent.

Depp's arguments with himself in AWE made up for DMC.

Depp in the Pirates movies is akin to Christian Bale in Terminator 4(rumored at least) and Ben Kingsley in BloodRayne(although, I haven't seen it); far below their talent levels.

[ducko5]

I was really expecting this article to be about a new Jack Sparrow comic book. Oh well.

[Demogoblin]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Uh... isn't this a comics site? Some stuff has been... tentative... of late, but this doesn't even pretend to have a comics angle.

I'm guessing you missed that news item about a month back that stated a change of ownership of the site and an expanded outlook on genre entertainment? I don't have a link to the 'Rama post but I did find this: a detailing of the buyout.

[MattBrady]

Folks:

1) Relax.

2) Yes, we're going to be broadening our coverage as the weeks go by, and will be sticking to genre-related entertainment that Newsarama readers will, most likely, find interesting.

3) I can personally guarantee that no comic content is being displaced for any expanded coverage that we do, and I kinda know, 'cause I'm the guy who makes the schedule.

4) If you feel that you are going to be upset by any article on the site, the vast majority of you do not have a man with a gun pointed at your head standing behind you, forcing you to read Newsarama. Why not skip it and stay happy?

(Those of you with the man behind you and the gun, forcing you to read, as always, thanks for your patronage, and your Christmas gift is on its way - this year, it's a slice of bread!)

MattB

[pop monkey]

Originally Posted by SMARTASS8

Depp in the Pirates movies is akin to Christian Bale in Terminator 4(rumored at least) and Ben Kingsley in BloodRayne(although, I haven't seen it); far below their talent levels.

Apples and oranges, man... or rather more like apples and jackhammers.
Kingsley was obviously slumming it. Depp seemed to genuinely enjoy playing Sparrow (or at least the large paycheck), and the movies were fun!

I only saw Pirates 3 in the theaters once and enjoyed it, so I'm curious to see how it holds up to a repeat viewing. Probably won't be half as nice on the small screen.

The maelstrom sequence in Pirates 3 was quite amazing from a technical standpoint. Seemed like quite the headache to visualize.