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11-29-2007, 07:41 AM
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INSIDE THE ADVENTURES III: FRED VAN LENTE
 by Benjamin Ong Pang KeanOkay, okay… Fred Van Lente does not write comics for kids. We’ve highlighted this fact before and since it’s our week-long focus on all things Marvel Adventures, we’re saying it again now - the scribe tells stories and tales appropriate for fans ages seven to 77. Yes, that means you, you and all of you readers who’re still a kid at heart. With such work-for-hire projects as Marvel Western Legends, Amazing Fantasy, Super-Villain Team-Up/MODOK's 11, Marvel Romance Redux, and the upcoming Incredible Hercules, and creator-owned stuff like The Silencers, Watchdogs, The Weapon, etc, he isn’t exactly a new name in the industry. But what about the Marvel Adventures imprint that intrigue him enough to write or having written all ages stories about the Fantastic Four, Iron Man and Spider-Man? Newsarama.com sat down with the writer for a chat about putting the fun and humor back into today’s comic books. Newsarama: First off, let's hit on the current hot topic, shall we? What are your initial thoughts on Marvel's Digital Comics Unlimited, especially the extra attention on and experimentation with the Young Reader Series? Fred Van Lente: I think it's great. I've always enjoyed the functionality of Marvel.com's Digital Comics viewer, and as many have already said, it’s an inevitable and necessary direction for the company to go. A lot of my comics are up on the web comix portal Drunk Duck (like The Weapon) and from the comments posted there it seems like that for the people (most of them kids, as far as I can tell) who read 'em over there that's their equivalent of the morning funnies page – that's where they go to get comics, and it's never occurred to them to go into a comics shop (many of them don't even seem to know they exist). Marvel simply has to reach out to that huge audience. NRAMA: Going back to your childhood days for a bit, what're your fondest memories/recollections on some of the comics from the good old days that you'd enjoyed as a kid? FVL: I liked many different kind of comics. When I was youngest, I liked the most those DC Blue Ribbon Digests, I think because they gave you the most bang for the buck -- and it took me a while to ride my bike to the 7-11 to get them in those days, so efficiency was key. I liked the different storytelling styles and kinds of artwork you could see between two covers for ninety-five cents.    NRAMA: What made you like them as a young reader back then? FVL: That's a good question. I honestly don't really remember. I liked the fantasy, and in the case of superheroes the fantasy was grounded in the world I saw around me every day. NRAMA: In 2004, Pulitizer Prize winning novelist and comic book writer Michael Chabon gave a keynote address at the Eisner Awards ceremony in which he stated that "children have not abandoned comic books - comic books have abandoned children." Your thoughts? FVL: I can’t agree with that. Comics wouldn't have abandoned children if children hadn't abandoned them first. That's money the publishers are abandoning, you know. This idea that the geeks and nerds came in and completely co-opted comics and booted everybody else out of the club is a convenient fiction for some, but doesn't really hold up under close scrutiny. It'd be more accurate to say that kids' buying habits and entertainment needs changed away from all forms of reading, including comics, so the industry found itself growing more and more dependent on the hardcore fan -- and what had before been a marginal, if vocal audience became the primary demographic. That seems to be basic economic survival to me. Fortunately, the popularity of manga has made all kinds of comics more viable, although we still have a long way to go in terms of servicing the children's and young adult market, I think, despite terrific in-roads made by folks like Jeff Smith. NRAMA: In your opinion, how has the focus changed now? As writers tend to tackle more real world issues and politics now, do you think that the comics landscape look all doom and gloom for publishers, retailers, fans and the untapped market out there? FVL: I have kind of a unique perspective because I do a comic, Action Philosophers, where many of our readers have never read a comic before and I get lots of enthusiastic letters from folks saying so. The only reason to be gloomy about comics is when smart creators give up on trying to bring more and more people into the medium with unique and innovative work. NRAMA: What got you interested in Marvel's all ages line in the first place? FVL: In early 2006, editor Mark Paniccia called to offer me issues of Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four. I had a blast doing my first arc, and that led to me being tapped to do MA Spidey, and then launching Marvel Adventures Iron Man. Along the way I've been doing some Power Pack as well. Writing for kids is very rewarding, and to have parents come up to me as one did at San Diego, and tell me that her little girl wants my story read to her over and over again, night after night, gives you many months of warm fuzzies. NRAMA: "Doom, Where's My Car?" and "Goom Got Game" are two fan favorite stories of yours from the Marvel Adventures line. What're some of your personal favorites? FVL: Well, my first-ever Marvel Adventures, "King of the Monsters," where Ben Grimm takes over the Mole Man's island. And I have one we just put to bed, in Marvel Adventures Spider-Man #34, "The Un-Natural", where Peter Parker inadvertently uses his spider-powers to become a star on his school's baseball team, that is probably my new favorite, partially because I'm such a fanatic for the sport and it was great to do a whole story on it... It also has a very touching ending, Cory Hamscher did an outstanding job on the pencils and inks and it sports one of the greatest Patrick Scherberger covers ever [at the top of the article].  NRAMA: How do you compare the MA line to the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby/Steve Ditko comics from the 1960s? FVL: That's definitely the feeling I'm going for, with the sensibility updated for our times. But I wouldn't dare compare myself to the classics. Yet. [grin] NRAMA: Who or what, do you see as the Marvel Adventures competition in reaching their particular age group? The 616 titles themselves? Johnny DC books? Manga? Video games? Webcomics? FVL: Anything, from MTV to video games to YouTube, that keeps kids from reading. As far as I'm concerned, Johnny DC and Harry Potter and Marvel Adventures are all on the same team – we just play different positions. NRAMA: Back in November, you told us that the overriding watchword for the Marvel Adventures line was "fun". What is your formula to bringing the fun back into comics without making them too childish for the grown-ups in our midst and too mature for younger readers? FVL: Humor. That's what somebody like Jeff Parker excels at so well in the stories you mentioned above. I like trying to dangle as many plot points as I can and then tie them up within twenty-two pages as seamlessly as I can... I really model myself after Larry David and Curb Your Enthusiasm in that manner: It's like a circus act, trying to have all these threads pay off in a clever and unexpected way by the last panel of the last page.  NRAMA: Do you write for yourself as a reader first, or do you put today's readers in mind when coming up with the stories that you did/are doing for MA Fantastic Four, MA Spider-Man and MA Iron Man? FVL: If you read the response threads at any comics site, like, gee, I don't know... [cough] Newsarama, you'd see five people can read a story and have five very different responses. So it's my own tastes I respond to. It's the only standard I can accurately gauge. NRAMA: What are the pros and cons when it comes to this model that you've set for yourself? Do you worry for a second that what you like might not be to what readers look forward to reading? FVL: I can't really weigh the pros and cons because to me there's no other way to work. Each story, each arc, has to have its own unique writing challenges to overcome, something new for me to do -- and, frankly, if the story doesn't have that, it's probably not worth attempting in the first place. NRAMA: Do you think that there are restrictions with the MA philosophy that's set by the Powers That Be at Marvel? FVL: I'm sorry, I don't follow. If you're asking if there are restrictions in the MA brand philosophy, the answer is yes -- I have the Word document that outlines them. [laughs] NRAMA: What I meant was, do you think that the all ages feel to the whole MA brand of titles limit your creativity when it comes to fleshing out the characters more, developing longer plotlines and leading them to a major event down the road, etc?  FVL: Well, sure, but like I said, that’s another kind of challenge in storytelling that makes this job worthwhile. While to most people, comics are a serial medium, a kid who picks up a random issue at the newsstand at Wal-Mart should be able to have a satisfying read for $3 or $4 that he doesn’t need five more issues (or the trade) to complete. That’s the idea behind Marvel Adventures’ “Done-in-One” philosophy, we’re focusing on that consumer. We’re trying to bring back the “casual comics fan,” which these days can look like an oxymoron. Comics reading, like TV watching, should be a leisure activity, not a lifestyle choice. [laughs]NRAMA: How do you adjust then from being a writer of MA titles to a creator/writer of other mature themed projects? What's your work schedule/system like in a given month? One week in the MA mode and then letting your creativity run wild the next with creator-owned projects? FVL: Yeah, pretty much. It's not hard to adjust most of the time but I'm doing a crime title for Marvel right now with the criminally talented Dennis Calero (secret plug! secret plug! secret plug!) and I tried doing that and Power Pack: Day One in the same day, and... Ooooh, boy. What a disaster. I'm not trying that again. It made my brain hurt. NRAMA: Right. Other than the titles grouped under the MA imprint, as you said, you've got Power Pack: Day One coming up in early 2008. It's also an all ages project, even though it's not labeled as a MA mini-series. Is it a prequel to your FF & Power Pack from early this year? FVL: It is a prequel and a sequel -- During a sleepover, each one of the Power kids are retelling a part of their origin to Franklin Richards, who joined the team in FF&PP. And each one of the four has a slightly different gloss on it from the others. It's just like Rashomon, except with Snarks. NRAMA: How much will the upcoming Day One redefine what older fans know of the Power Pack kids who were involved in several main Marvel Universe stories like the X-titles' Mutant Massacre and Inferno crossovers, and even the specials with Spider-Man, and Cloak and Dagger that dealt with such issues as sexual abuse, and teen homelessness and runaways, respectively? FVL: Day One retells the Louise Simonson/June Brigman origin of the Pack for today's generation of fans with the as-usual eye-popping artwork of Gurihiru. I am adding some (hopefully soon-to-be) significant additions to the Kymellian/Snark mythos as well as explaining how the Pack's powers work.  NRAMA: In MA Iron Man, you are about to wrap up an arc focusing on the many different armors of Iron Man. We’ve seen his deep-sea armor, outer space armor, stealth armor and his 19th century steam armor. Personally, what, in your mind, is the ultimate Iron Man armor?FVL: The Stealth Armor, definitely. Just imagine all the things I could do with invisibility… Actually, maybe I shouldn’t, since this a kid’s book I’m talking about here… NRAMA: The upcoming arc, “Hero by Design”, which begins in MAIM #9 in January, focuses on Tony's quest to find his long-lost estranged father, who disappeared when Tony was just a teenager, leaving him to run the family business alone. What is the morale behind the story that you’re telling? Family values that you’re hoping to instill to readers? FVL: Tony starts out with a preconception about who his father is and why he left his family (obviously we’re doing our own MA continuity here), but in the course of his adventures – four altogether, from MAIM [issues] #9 through #12, he learns that everything he thought he knew about his dad turns out to be a lie, and that means he has to rethink his ideas about both Howard Stark and himself. NRAMA: This world-spanning adventure features some pretty diverse guest appearances by Spider-Woman and Alpha Flight. How different will they be from their MU counterparts?  FVL: Spider-Woman is original flavor, Jessica Drew Spider-Woman, who gets hired by Tony as a private investigator to help him find his father in MAIM #10. In the next issue, when he goes to the remotest part of Canada to continue his quest, Iron Man runs into an old foe (last seen in MAIM #6, hint, hint) and has to be helped out by Alpha Flight. This will be the X-Men #120-#121 lineup: Guardian, Snowbird, Aurora, Northstar, Shaman and Sasquatch. (Yeah, I know he was called “Vindicator” back then. But, like John Byrne, I always hated that name.) I should say I’m going through kind of a ridiculous Alpha Flight phase right now and people should expect them to pop up in a number of comics I write… I loved that series as a kid. The members were all screwed-up. They all had demons possessing them, they had crippling mental disorders, they were midgets or homosexuals. Only a country like Canada could have an official super-team this dysfunctional. NRAMA: Over on MA Spider-Man, you’re doing a four-issue run (#33-36) that focuses on some of Spidey's fiercest foes, but looks at them in new and different ways. Let’s start with Venom, shall we? Venom as Spidey's sidekick? How did this idea come about in the first place? FVL: I have to make a confession here, Ben. I love Spider-Man. Love him. Peter Parker is one of the greatest characters in comics history. But he totally demolishes the old writing canard that a hero can only be as good as villain. I am no fan of Spider-Man’s villains. They all have stupid animal names and all they want to do is rob banks and kill Spider-Man. Yawn. The only good Spider-Man villain was the Kingpin, and Daredevil stole him. So the challenge for me, when given an assignment like this, focusing on his big-hitter villains (Norman Green Goblin, Harry Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus and Venom) is to come up with ideas that use them in strange and interesting ways that don’t make me want to gnaw my wrists off while I’m at my laptop.  And I hate Venom most of all. God, how I despise Venom. I’m convinced he’s only popular because he’s wearing Spider-Man’s awesome black costume. The sidekick idea came about by thinking, well, Venom is a symbiote, and what’s more symbiotic than following the guy around like he’s his shadow? In MASM #35, Venom volunteers to become Spider-Man’s partner in heroism, that he wants to bury the hatched with the web-slinger, but you know that sneaky Venom, he could have something more up his sleeve… NRAMA: The Green Goblin as overly aggressive sports dad? FVL: That would be MASM #34, the baseball story I mentioned earlier. This is before, in MA “continuity” (there’s not really any such thing, but you know what I mean), Harry and Peter have ever met, and Harry pitches for an opposing team. Norman can’t stand to see Osborns losing, you see, so if that means taking out star shortstop Peter Parker so his son’s team can win, well, so be it… NRAMA: Dr. Octopus renting out a room in Aunt May's house? Familiar yet…? FVL: Obviously, that idea is ripped off Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. – they had Doc Ock move into Peter’s room once he moved out of Aunt May’s house. My twist is that in this story Peter is still in school, and now they’re housemates. “And hilarity ensues…” Do you know how long it takes Doc Ock to use the bathroom in the morning? Like, forever! NRAMA: Stay away from my house then, Doc Ock! Wrapping things up, what have you got planned for your upcoming MA/all ages projects? FVL: I have just one word for you. And that word is: "SNIKT!" NRAMA: And you’re only able to do these kind of stories in the MA line of comics. Any closing thoughts? Last chance for you to win over the hearts and minds of those who’re still sitting on the fence, waiting for the right story to pull them in? Reach out to the inner child in them, Fred… FVL: I think the comics themselves are the best persuasion of all: Go to marvel.com and check out the Marvel Adventures available for free on Marvel’s Digital Comics site. I could tell you they have great art and fun stories, but why not read ‘em for yourself, see whether or not you get hooked? See what I mean about making all the threads pay off in the end? Now wasn’t that fun? [grins] Previously: Inside the Adventures I: Mark Paniccia Inside the Adventures II: Marc Sumerak |
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11-29-2007, 08:47 AM
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11-29-2007, 09:07 AM
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But my pastor told me homosexuality was the result of demon possession and/or crippling mental disorders . . .  The Human Rights Campaign is going to be all over this quote quicker than a Super Bowl Snickers commercial. Last edited by Bird Flu Man : 11-29-2007 at 09:10 AM. |
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11-29-2007, 09:09 AM
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So, being a midget or a homosexual is screwed up? :: insert political correct raving here :: |
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11-29-2007, 09:19 AM
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11-29-2007, 09:22 AM
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#6 |
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Marvel is ADDING to its kids line by doing done in one lighthearted stories of the heroes everybody knows.
DC, OTOH, is cancelling Justice League Unlimited. Problem? |
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11-29-2007, 09:24 AM
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Dont think he ment it like that. |
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11-29-2007, 09:29 AM
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#8 |
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I really think that Parker, Sumerak and FVL are going to be where Sean McKeever is now in a few years, on some very high profile gigs writing some very, very good stories.
I think it is ENDLESSLY harder to write a good All Ages story than... let's say writing a good Authority story where you can do almost anything you want. The boundaries force you to be more creative, to take less shortcuts. I honestly think Mark Millar's best work is his Superman Adventuers run. I doubt he'll ever surpass it, maybe if he had a good, heavily edited and restrained Superman run where he could NOT do whatever he wanted. Anyway, I think the strongest issues of the entire MA run so far were FVL's Fantastic Four issues (with PAD's MA SM run coming second, probably). I'm really looking forward to FVL's Spidey stuff. |
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11-29-2007, 09:39 AM
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#9 |
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this is the guy that wrote modok's supervillain team up,
cool writer, loved that mini, i really did, Hey Fred, can you ask marvel to let you do the sequel to Modok's? please, i need my fix of modok |
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11-29-2007, 10:12 AM
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#10 | |
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I get what you are saying here. JLU is a great title and it's a good "starter" DC book. But they are still supporting Teen Titans Go! at least, and there are three new AA books coming out in the near future (I mean, Tiny Titans made the cover of Previews!). DC might have more AA stuff up their sleeves. As for the MA line, I must say that I have yet to have been disappointed by any of them that I have read. I mean, over over in MA:SM, they had the Werewolf show up, and it WORKED! Werewolf By Night in an AA book and it worked! How great is that? Very much looking forward to the next storyline in MA:IM, which is my second-favorite Marvel ongoing right now, right behind the regular Iron Man. |
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11-29-2007, 10:22 AM
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#11 |
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Fred Van Lente has been producing some good stuff over in the Marvel Adventures titles. I'll at least take a look at anything I see his name on. And for those missing out on the Marvel Adventures titles, you should pick up a few of the digests. They're fairly cheap and good fun.
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11-29-2007, 10:30 AM
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#12 | |
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I'm pretty sure the connotation was not a negative one but that he was instead just trying to indicate that they were different from other super hero teams which were/are largely stereotypical people. The statement was in the context of "I loved these characters because..." Beyond that, at least in the homosexual referenece, he's picking up on what Marvel themselves layed down. Marvel (in the 90s) was the one who chose to make Northstars orientation a major selling point so it really isn't unreasonable to point out how that made him different in the context of the Marvel Universe. |
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11-29-2007, 10:47 AM
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#13 |
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I've really been wanting to get into the Marvel Adventures line for a while now, but one thing that turns me off a bit is the inconsistency of the creative teams. I know it has been said that they shift often because of the difficulty modern writers have with writing done-in-one stories (which, frankly, is kind of sad), but it leads to a disjointed feel.
I can't decide if I should pick and choose certain issues based on previews, reviews, certain writers/artists, etc. or just start picking these stories up in bulk in those nifty digest editions. I also want to read a book from the beginning (unfortunate collector mentality kicking in) and I missed the boat big time on most of these. Iron Man and Hulk both have only one digest out, so maybe I'll go for them. I don't know. Apparently, I'm just typing my thought process into this post. Fascinating, isn't it? Basically, any advice on the best way to jump on the MA bandwagon (where I should start, what books are good, what writers/artists are good, etc.) would be greatly appreciated. I agree about the cancellation of DC's JLU comic. As I've posted before, I applaud DC for expanding their all ages line and I'm not ashamed to admit that I await the arrival of Tiny Titans and Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam (LOVE that title!) with the giddy anticipation of a little girl. But I don't see why their arrival necessitates the cancellation of JLU. Why not have Tiny Titans, BB&MOS and I suppose, Superfriends, for the little tykes, JLU and Teen Titans Go! for the older kids and the regular DC universe for teenagers, young adults and terminal cases of arrested development like myself? Everyone wins and there's a through line to build long-time readers. Kids just need to be reading comics again, darn it! Nothing would make me happier that seeing the freaking spinner racks show up in every corner store again. That and the return of the Big Wheel (*sniff sniff*) to 7-11 would be heaven to me. Walking to the corner 7-11 and getting a handful of comics, a Slurpee and a Big Wheel = Good Memories. |
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11-29-2007, 11:23 AM
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But that's still how he said it. Even if he loved the character, the statement says the character was "messed up" for being a homosexual. It's like saying: "Oh I'm not racist. I have black friends!" Sure it's not as bad as someone saying "homosexuals are messed up people," but the way people choose to use language says a lot about how they perceive something, especially minorities, even if it's a subconscious thing. I.e. Disregarding a trans-gendered person's preferred pronoun or referring to blacks or Jews or Hispanics (or whomever) in a context of otherness with identifiers like "those people." (Mind you, Northstar was messed up because of his family situation, not his homosexuality. And homosexuality and being a little person [not a "midget"] are both so beyond the realm of even being capable of labeled as "messed up" that it shouldn't even enter someone's mind. It's 2007.) It reflects problematic attitudes, so there's no room for carelessness. Think of it like a Freudian slip. Last edited by ascloseasme : 11-29-2007 at 11:33 AM. |
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11-29-2007, 11:36 AM
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I've said it endlessly - Comics need to get out of the LCS and back into the places that kids (and moms) go. Those kids titles should be in Wal-Mart. Legion is a hit show on Kids WB - why is the Johnny DC Legion book not selling like NyQuil during a flu epidemic? Because nobody knows it exists. Thanks to the laws surrounding advertising on kids' shows (F-you, Peggy Charren), they are not allowed to advertise the Legion comic during the Legion show. Remember that little "Superman is based on characters appearing in Superman Magazine" they used to say at the end of the George Reeves show? That wouldn't be allowed today. Now, there's no reason they couldn't advertise The Batman Strikes during Legion, and vice versa (They did that all the time with GI Joe and Transformers back in the day), but that would require money to be spent. And nobody wants to do that. I swear, if I hit the Powerball, I'm dumping SO much money into the comics industry just as an act of philanthopism... |
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11-29-2007, 12:08 PM
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#16 |
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I would probably pick up more of these Marvel Adventures books, despite the fact I'm 28 and spend zero time with kids, but not a single LCS in my area carries them. I've even asked, but they're convinced they couldn't sell them. I know Borders carries them, but I don't go there nearly as often as my comic shops. Sigh.
By the way, for a quick plug, Van Lente submitted a celebrity playlist to my music blog recently. It's here. |
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11-29-2007, 12:11 PM
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Oh I'm not homomphobic. I have gay friends!
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Wow, and here I thought you guys were going to jump all over me for not liking Venom. Seriously, though, I thought the oft-cited statement above was sufficiently silly to be an obvious joke and not to be taken seriously by anyone. The joke was about John Byrne's 1980's Alpha Flight series, a series in which everyone, and I mean everyone, was saddled with a kind of ridiculous level of personal problems. Northstar's token issue was that he was in the closet, although he was in the closet due to editorial prohibitions that prevented Byrne from making him openly gay, as was his original intent. And just so everyone understands my intention, I am saying Northstar's closeted status was an issue for this fictional comic book character in the 1980's iteration of this series, not an issue for all gay people everywhere, or that being gay is somehow itself inherently an issue or messes people up. I do not believe that. So: It was a joke about Alpha Flight. I did not intentionally mean to offend. I thought it was nakedly stupid enough not to be taken seriously. If you didn't think it was funny or don't think this is even an appropriate thing to tell a joke about or think it somehow subconsciously displays deep-rooted flaws in my character, that's your right. But I didn't want this thread to be completely hijacked by my alleged (and, I can assure you, quite non-existent) homophobia, and instead focus on Marvel's wonderful Adventures line. |
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11-29-2007, 12:28 PM
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thanks Fred, for coming on here and responding in such a fabulously matter of fact and respectful way! I for one really appreciate it!
i love the Marvel Adventures line (especially Marvel Adventures Avengers) and adore classic Alpha Flight, so I'm def. on board. Any chance of Alpha Flight guest starring in MA Avengers??? It'd be great to see the two teams react/fight/teamup together! Thanks again, Fred! You rock! |
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11-29-2007, 12:34 PM
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Thank you, Mr. Van Lente, for coming on and clearing the air here. The thread was in severe danger of being hijacked by the easily offended. I, for one, knew from the get-go what you were saying, but I'm glad you came on to clarify what most reasonable people could easily surmise. Now, on with the discussion about the Marvel Adventures line and how kids need to be reading comics again. Who thinks the price of comics is an issue in keeping new readers away? I know, as a parent, that I can't justify going to the comic shop every week and dropping 20 bucks on a stack of comics for my daughter, as much as I'd love to. If they were $1.50, that would be different. I personally think price is a huge impediment to getting comics into kids' hands. One thing DC is doing better than Marvel is keeping their Johnny DC books at $2.25. Sure, they're on cheaper paper, but when you were a kid, did you give a crap about that? |
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11-29-2007, 12:44 PM
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Jesus Christ this site is full of some dumb people. Dumb like bricks. But it's okay, because some of my best friends are dumb like bricks. See the difference? |
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11-29-2007, 12:49 PM
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No problem, Nepthys, thanks for the support. I imagine shortly up on Newsarama's Adventuresrama will be Mr. MA Avengers, Jeff Parker, so you can definitely ask him about the Flight. All I can say is they're definitely appearing in MAIM #10, #5 of the super-secret SNIKT! project I alluded to, and, I am hoping (fingers crossed) my favorite member will be playing a major guest role in me and Greg's second Incredible Hercules arc, pending approval by the Powers That Be. All: please send positive vibes my way. So you can definitely fill your lives with enough Flight as you can possibly stand. I love them crazy Canucks. |
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11-29-2007, 12:55 PM
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#22 |
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Good interview. I love Fred's work.
Bobby |
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11-29-2007, 01:07 PM
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Hey, don't you try to drag me into your gay-hatefest, Van Lente! Oh, you meant whether AF would be in Avengers. I think that's a Sumerak question now! |
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11-29-2007, 02:38 PM
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The "ridiculous level of personal problems" was not token at the time as far as Northstar was concerned. In fact, it was kind of ground-breaking... Even more so because he was prohibited from coming out, but was eventually able to. I'm not picking a fight or trying to call you a homophobe; I was merely trying to illustrate the problems of a statement like the one you made. I'm glad you clarified. If his emotional conflict over coming out was what "messed him up," I totally agree. But the language you employed to convey that, even as a "joke," represents negative attitudes held by a large number of people (blatantly and through casual discourse). Quote:
Zing!  |
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11-29-2007, 02:39 PM
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As you pointed out, he said "they had crippling mental disorders, they were midgets or homosexuals" that is two separate subjects, as opposed to "they had crippling mental disorders; being midgets and homosexuals." Though it would have been much more clear if he had posted an "and" aftr that coma, still, I'm calling him good on the intollerance front. Personally I am big fan of midgets, homosexuals, and midget homosexuals. Frankly, we need more of them!! |
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