THE Z-CULT FM SAGA: TALKING TO SERJ & ZOG

**MattBrady** · 11-26-2007, 08:10 AM

Updated 11.26.07 - 4:30 pm EST

In an updated post on Z-Cult FM, it appears that the site will shortly take down all Marvel trackers on their site. “Serj” posted:

Every day I seem to have to announce some news here but here is a new news item for our site.

First Marvel News:
Yesterday Marvel contacted us further in response to our email to them. They provided a direct phone number to we could contact them directly and continue on our communication. We phone them up today first thing (US Time) and enjoyed a chat with them.

They have now followed our removal process kinda but Z-Cult FM and Marvel have decided the following:
* We will remove all Marvel comics from our trackers.
* We asked for 7 days to remove the books from our trackers (due to time it takes to delete them all) and they agreed.

So we would like to thank Marvel for following our removal policy (like all other publishers have done in past) and not going down the legal route once again.

So 7 days from now there will be no Marvel comics on our website.

We asked marvel if they wanted to say anything as the reason for the removal to our users and they mentioned they are doing it because of their new download site.

We won't be providing links back to Marvel's new download service like we have down for SLG etc because I feel what Marvel is offering is NOT a download service but more like a preview site. The users who purchase to read the books can only read them, they can not store them for a later date. So I do not class this as a download service for digital comics so will not be linking to it. If in future Marvel add a download feature to it we will link to it and support the site 100%.

Marvel have also stated their site is a work in progress so if anyone has any comments or suggestions be sure to contact them or start a thread on this site and they will read them.

New 30 Day Policy on DC Comics
DC Comics have not contacted us further about the issues over the last few days, but the staff of Z-Cult FM have agreed among ourselves we find it best if we start a new 30 day policy on all new DC comics.

So as of today no DC Comic publications will be allowed on our site until least 30 days after they have been available in the shops. Any comics uploaded before this ban can remain but any comics that are uploaded since this ban was posted will be removed and the uploader reminded of our new policy.

I must stress the following points before any people read this or news sites pick it up:
* This 30 day ban is only for DC Comic books for time being.
* DC Comics has not replied to our response that we made on Friday.
* Z-Cult FM Staff have come up with this ban.
* This does not come from DC Comics or any other publishers.

I just wanted to clear that up so no confusion is started like the SLG issue that news sites picked up on.

-------------------------------------------

Not all our users will agree on our above two news posts.

Some will think we are folding to Marvel. Well we are not, now marvel has followed our DMCA policy we will be happy to remove all of their books within the agreed 7 days. If we ignored Marvels DMCA removal request then we are breaking our own policy's and rules and I don't want a site where we break our own rules.

Some users will not agree with the 30 day ban on DC Comics also, but the Z-Cult FM staff have agreed and made this rule as we thinks it works best for the site in the current situation.

If you have any comments you know what to do

Serj and Z-Cult FM Staff.

original article

by Lucas Siegel

Well known by many online comic book fans, Z-CultFM was one of the most popular bittorrent tracker sites for comics on the internet as well as a lively comic book discussion forum. The site has operated for years without any action from DC Comics or Marvel, but that has apparently changed as it was widely reported late last week, the site received letters from both major American publishers demanding in part, that the site be taken down.

Newsarama Note: As stated, Z-Cult FM hosts trackers for comics that have been scanned and uploaded, i.e., access to the comics. The site does not host the comics themselves. Additionally, the publishers have reportedly taken similar action against an individual going by the name “Oroboros,” who scans and uploads comics to Usenet. “Ororbos” has reportedly given up the practice.

The site briefly took down their trackers of the named publishers’ work and locked sections of the site down, but as of Friday, re-opened all of its trackers and locked down sections, restoring the site to its condition prior to the letters.

In a post on the site’s forums, Z-Cult Administrator “Serj” explained his reasons, writing:

Z-Cult FM Comic Community will re-open all of its Trackers and locked down sections back to how they were earlier in the week before any legal action. We are carrying out this action for the following reasons:

* I am (We are) based outside of the US and are not therefore subject to US legislation that was present on the legal documents sent to us.

* Here at Z-Cult FM we have always had a clearly explained and signposted policy of making it clear to all comic publishers and copyright holders that we will on request (and reasonable proof of ownership) remove their material from our trackers if they requested us to. Please see: http://zcultfm.com/dmca.php

Marvel Comic and DC Comics, who confirmed they have seen our site but refused to follow our policy. All other publishers in the past who have followed this policy have been respected and the agreed actions taken.

* Marvel Comics and DC Comics gave us 3 day to comply with their demands and then decided to go on their Thanksgiving holiday. So 2 of these 3 days we have been unable to contact Marvel by telephone to discuss this matter with them. We would like to thank DC Comics who were available by telephone and were friendly enough to talk about the situation and confirm the documents were indeed from DC Comics.

* The pressure from our members-- their readers-- demands that we do so.

Chances are this won't be the last we hear from Marvel Comics and DC Comics but once they have read our email we sent them with out response they will hopefully carefully think about their next set of actions.

We would like to thank all our users and the number of outside sites on the Internet for their support. Without members like yourself there would be no point owning such a site.

Adding to the confusion of the trackers coming down and threats from publishers, Z-Cult originally posted an letter from Slave Labor, which appeared to support the site and its efforts, and granted Z-Cult permission to track torrents of all SLG titles except the Disney titles it has produced under license from Disney.

That, however, is not quite the case as “Serj” updated yesterday, stating that, as confirmed by Slave Labor owner Dan Vado, the letter allowing SLG trackers to be posted did not come from him, and was not authorized by SLG. That said, Vado told “Serj” that Z-Cult could continue to host the trackers for SLG titles, but reserved the right to return and ask that the trackers be removed. Vado has apologized for the confusion and his initial reaction about the SLG elements of the story.

Newsarama sat down with “Serj,” and moderator “Zog” for an exclusive look behind the scenes of the site and the developing story.

Newsarama Note: The interview is presented verbatim, and has only been edited for grammar and spelling. “Zog” arrived first.

NRAMA: Zog, you’ve been a mod at the site for some time…

Zog: I became a mod about a year or so after the site was started. I was a member from about the second month after the site started. Living here in the UK, trying to get the comics on a regular basis, was impossible, and getting the back issues.... there was no chance. So finding a community that could fill those needs was astounding to me. Wanting to give back as much as possible, that's why I became a mod. The issue of the new comics, does not concern me that much, to be honest; making sure that the older stuff is available, that is what I care about.

NRAMA: Let’s be frank, do you buy comics?

Zog: I do buy comics.

NRAMA: Now, DC and Marvel both put a lot of collections of some old stuff out with their large newsprint collections. Do you pick those up at all?

Zog: No.

NRAMA: What makes you seek them out online instead of buying them?

Zog: Ok, for a start, not a DC fan…so don’t buy or download any DC stuff, always been a Marvel fan. Most of the Marvel stuff I own... The issues they put out in their collections I have. My collection is old, falling apart, been read so many times.

NRAMA: So it's more about archiving what you have and having easy access to it for you?

Zog: Yes. And the really old stuff that cannot be bought. But easy access is probably the most important aspect.

NRAMA: A lot of people on the forums have cited books that they now buy because of "trying them out" if you will, through downloads. Has that been the case for you at all?

Zog: Yes. I would never have bought Planetary unless I was told, “download this, you will enjoy it.” I did, and went and bought it, and a few other series as well. The same happened with Ellis’s Authority. I would never ever had bought it, unless recommended by Z-Cult…and downloaded it first. Life is hard being a Marvel fanboy, you get very blinkered.

NRAMA: I was a longtime Marvel Zombie, too. A friend loaned me Y: The Last Man volume 1 and that opened my eyes to Vertigo.

Zog: The cost of buying to try is just ludicrous. That’s where scanning/torrents come in so handy.

NRAMA: There seem to be about 70,000 people [the approximate number of Z-Cult FM members] that agree with you.

Zog: When the trackers were shut down for three days [last week], I did some searching. The torrents that were on Z-Cult, ended up on PirateBay [a popular multiple file-type torrent tracker]. They have porn ads everywhere. There are no ads in the main forum on Z-Cult. We’re not profiting from these at all.

“Serj” enters the discussion

NRAMA: Serj, thanks for joining us.

Serj: Hopefully I have not missed too much.

NRAMA: Serj, why don't you tell us about when and why you started Z-Cult FM?

Serj: Ok. Well Z-Cult FM first started off as a friend site, it only changed to a Comic Site in Feb 2004. In Jan/Feb 2004 I found that comic files could be downloaded and previewed. Problem was if you wanted to download these comic files via bit torrent you had to go and look on a handful of sites and most put comics in either misc or small categories, there was no one site that just had comic torrents. I started researching bit torrent trackers and in Feb 2004 I started my own tracker which over space of few days got very popular with users/fans from all over the world commenting and enjoying the Tracker. The fans, via our shoutbox, suggested a forum so that’s where Z-Cult FM Comic Community began and the rest has grown since then.

NRAMA: You’ve had creators and companies ask you to take down their comics before, right? You even have a public banned list?

Zog: They have asked, and we do have a banned list.

NRAMA: What’s that process like?

Zog: They email Serj… There is a DRM policy on the main forum. Serj checks they are who they say they are, then bans the books from the trackers. We have currently…71877 members.

Serj: We have a DMCA / Removal process that can be seen at: http://ZCultfm.com/dmca.php Normally the publishers drop me an email and request their books be removed, I then ask them to provide proof they are who they say they are, once they pass that we then work with them to remove all books. The emails are very informal and the deal agreed is strictly followed.

NRAMA: And what happens when someone uploads a torrent that refers to a banned book?

Zog: I have to say, all the uploaders are very good about not torrenting the banned books. We, as mods check the trackers, if not us, then someone from the forum checks every uploaded torrent, if one is found, we remove it, send a PM or email to the uploader informing them the reason why the thing was removed. We have never had a complaint from any uploader, to date. Most apologize and say they won’t do it again.

Serj: If a user then uploads a banned comic our users report it to us and we remove it asap.

NRAMA: So it’s a group effort by all 70,000 members?

Serj: Most of the members follow the rule, sometimes a pack will be uploaded with a banned comic and a user will see it and report it normally within 1 - 2 hours. The publishers on the banned list know this time delay and are happy with it.

NRAMA: Can you tell us about these Cease and Desist letters you received? Who were they from, and what were the most pertinent pieces of information on them?

Zog: At this stage, we can’t tell you much. Hopefully we are still in discussions with them, so we do not want to prejudice them more than they already are against us.

Serj: The Marvel document contained eight items we had to follow, while DC Comics [letter] contained six items. One of these items was: Immediately shutdown http://zcultfm.com/ and all trackers associated within.

NRAMA: Both letters said that?

Serj: Yep, later on both publishers have stated we can keep the website as a comic community as long as we remove all trackers. We will keep the document other contents in secret for now until we have finished talking to Marvel and DC Comics.

Zog: However we have some publishers who have given permission to torrent their comics and trackers as such are not illegal, even in the USA, I think.

NRAMA: One more thing about the letters - did they come out of the blue, or had any other attempts at communication been made before on behalf of these companies?

Serj: Out of the blue, we have never spoken to Marvel or DC Comics in the past and these are the first set of legal letters we have ever received since our site opening in 2004.

NRAMA: There’s been a large response of outcry on your forums, and even in the comments sections of blog posts talking about this issue. What do you credit that to?

Zog: I really think, most of the people who download are like me - they buy the books they download. OK, not all of the books, because some just do not appeal to them. But the ones they do download and like, they buy.

NRAMA: That was the prevailing comment in the thread that announced the temporary shut-down.

Zog: Outrage. :smiles:

Serj: The users of our site are in the end comic fans. We have been targeted by publishers to take down our site that is mainly run by their own fans who support these publishers by buying their comic books and supporting the company. Most users who download buy the end product if they enjoy it. There is no way a comic fan can purchase every comic in the world so they like to preview the comics first to see what comics are worth buying to add to their list. There are comics on my shelf and manga on my shelf I wouldn't own today if I hadn’t heard or previewed the book first hand on Z-Cult FM.

Zog: Most people think this is a reaction to Marvel opening it's own digital "download" site that you cannot actually download from. It may not be Marvel’s reaction to their new site, it may just be coincidence.

Serj: All comic fans on our site have been demanding download services from marvel and other publishers. Problem is Marvel seems to have launched this new service with no feedback from their fans of what they want. So you end up with all comments Marvel have been getting about their new service.

NRAMA: So what are Z-Cult FM’s plans for the immediate future?

Zog: Keep the forum open.

Serj: Forums will always stay open no matter what happens. Keep site running as normal and if publishers want us to ban their books they can follow our DMCA policy and we will remove them like in the past.

Zog: The people scanning are not going to stop scanning, and if publishers want to force their readers and fans to unsavory sites to download, that’s up to them.

Serj: We hope over time publishers will decide to support our site and decide we are not working against them but we can work together to get their books more readers and fans. Other than that we are not 100% sure what the future holds, if a user on our site posts a suggestion we change the site to reflect that.

NRAMA: You now have a deal going with Slave Labor Graphics, a publisher that was on your banned list and now has given that support. Tell us how that came about.

Serj: The SLG hoax stories have been blogged/talked about the last few days.

Zog: Just a communications mix up on the side of SLG, it happens.

Serj: Well many months ago SLG Publishing asked us to take down their books because they were launching their own digital download site where comics are priced from $0.69 upwards so we agreed. 3 weeks ago SLG Publishing sent us an email with an official statement stating we could share their comics once again in exchange for banner links on our site. This email I never got for some unknown reason. Few days ago I got a PM on Z-Cult FM asking if I got the email and they forwarded me a copy of it. This happened to be same time as we had DC/Marvel issues. So when we opened the site back up, we announced to our users about the email from SLG and their statement in same news post as our response to Marvel/DC. These two matters were not linked and SLG Publishing did not carry out this action as a response to Marvel or DC's letters.

NRAMA: Just one of those timing coincidences?

Serj: Yep, which some news sites ran the story as if they were linked and it was a response to Marvel/DC letters. It was just bad timing and maybe bad wording on my account.

We have talked this matter over with Dan from SLG Publishing and sorted everything out, but we want to make things clear on our side this wasn't SLG's response to Marvel or DC. We do not want to give them bad name in the industry etc or for them to be seen as Anti Marvel/DC.

NRAMA: Have you talked with any other publishers about a similar situation being set up?

Zog: We have, but as they did not do an open letter [as SLG did], we feel we should keep their names out of it at this time. We have a similar situation with another publisher, though.

Serj: If any publishers are out there that want to work with us rather than against we hope they will be willing to contact us etc.

NRAMA: Your trackers are now back up, functioning exactly the same as before. Are you worried about further legal action?

Zog: Ah…not really.

Serj: We hope any publishers who wish to have books removed will follow our DMCA policy and have a nice friendly chat with us via email. Anyone who emails us gets a response asap, normally within 1-2 working days.

NRAMA: To finish off, what would you like to say to the comic book community; meaning the creators, publishers, and fans.

Zog: Ha. Er…

Serj: I’ll let Zog handle this seeing as he’s better with words than me…Though I would like to say thanks for all the support our fans and outside sites have given us over the years and especially the past few days.

Zog: If you look at the Z-Cult FM site, really look at it, you’ll see it supports the comic industry. All of our members are compulsive comic fans. It would be a pity if the two biggest publishers, were not represented in some form.

Serj: And, if you like it, buy it!

Zog: And by the way, there is more to come.

Matt Brady contributed to this article.

Moored · 11-26-2007, 08:38 AM

You know, all that has happened because of these Cease and Desist letters is that now more people know about this ZCult.

So, in the long run DC/Marvel may actually turn out to be the losers because of this move

DuncanHines · 11-26-2007, 08:56 AM

I download a lot of music. But I buy a lot of music too. Usually I buy vinyl for bigger artwork and better sound, and I download the same albums for portability.

I buy a LOT of comics though. I can't really see downloading comics. Honestly, this whole thing comes as news to me. I knew people did it, but not in enough capacity to hurt Marvel and DC. Besides, it seems kind of dumb to me. Part of the joy of reading a comic book is the fact that it's a book (or pamphlet...). You hold it in your hands. Reading comics (except strips) off the screen seems dumb to me.

Lemurion · 11-26-2007, 09:00 AM

Given the number of people who have started spending more money on comics because of Z-Cult it may be that DC and Marvel will turn out to be the winners.

Marvel's online DCU certainly isn't going to turn people away from illegitimate downloads, and it's not price that will be the problem. There's no way to compete by offering what the customer wants less. If DC and Marvel want to monetize the digital comics industry they'll have to start selling downloads. I'm not saying they have to do anything, but merely that the evidence has shown that people are more likely to pay for downloads than subscription access.

gokujam · 11-26-2007, 09:20 AM

As I said in another thread. We dont have an LCS here in Barbados and having them shipped here myself involves huge shipping costs and time delays. Downloading's kinda my only option

little kon-el · 11-26-2007, 09:46 AM

Z-Cult is one of the few online trackers that really get it right. They have obscure stuff that doesn't get main press or main readership. They also have rarities that no one but a few readers want to read. I got caught up on the 90s and 00's big boom of titles that are very hard to find through Z-Cult. I also read some issues of comics that I only heard rumors about that have never been republished that I don't think even the creators remember.

Z-Cult opened my eyes to new and different comics that I probably would not have seen if it weren't for Z-Cult. I am very grateful for their ability to enlighten me about the comic industry and how they've allowed me to research particular artists and writers' bodies of work in its entirety by showing me the failed series or the one-shots that would be too obscure to reprint or find in a comic shop.

- l.k.

Uchiha_Prodigy · 11-26-2007, 09:57 AM

The only time Ive ever downloaded comics is if I couldnt get it at my LCS. I end up buying it as soon as my LCS gets more in anyway..

lpmiller · 11-26-2007, 09:58 AM

Zcult got me back into comics. Zcult helps me even care in the first place. That can't be a bad thing.

NICKD · 11-26-2007, 10:04 AM

I visit Zcult on a weekly basis nice guys that operate on their. I hope Marvel, Dc and Zcult can reach an agreement. So many solutions can be made to accomodate.

jccalhoun · 11-26-2007, 10:04 AM

I just want to say that for those that don't know there is a lot more to zcult than downloading comics. I joined to download comics but honestly I haven't even looked at the torrents in months. There are great and active message boards.
Come for the downloads and stay for the discussions!

dirtmound · 11-26-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Additionally, the publishers have reportedly taken similar action against an individual going by the name “Oroboros,” who scans and uploads comics to Usenet. “Ororbos” has reportedly given up the practice.

He hasn't "given up the practice" as much as he was blocked from any uploading to the usenet by his usenet provider. If he could upload, he would, but there is a block in place thanks to Marvel Comics.

DalekSupreme · 11-26-2007, 10:10 AM

Well, I, for one, got back into comics because of the torrents after not picking up one since 1991. I buy the trades when they come out. However, there is a lot of crap from the big 2 publishers, that I do not wish to waste my hard earned money on, e.g. Claws, Heroes for Hire.

And quite frankly, its the only way to read an entire x-over event anymore because I can't afford to buy every issue of a cross-over and don;t want to buy x-over issues that add absolutely NOTHING to the event. And nothing irks me more than buying a x-over issue that just repeats what's in the main series. *cough cough Civil War Tie-ins, WWH Ties-ins*

Now if Marvel wants to take that away from us, fine. However, it means I won't buy a book now cause I don't want to waste my money. I'll just go sit in Border's and read it for free and NOT buy it.

BornToRun · 11-26-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NICKD

I visit Zcult on a weekly basis nice guys that operate on their. I hope Marvel, Dc and Zcult can reach an agreement. So many solutions can be made to accomodate.

No way in hell. DC MIGHT be willing to make some minor, temporary accomodation but it's not likely. Meanwhile, Marvel has already got their digital service going, which was probably the impetus for sending a Cease-and-Desist right now.

JoeZhang · 11-26-2007, 10:27 AM

The "it's solely for archival purposes" argument is pretty bogus - yes there are people looking for titles from 30-40 years ago but if you check out the collections of most people, they are downloading titles that were released in the last 5-10 years.

The companies have a right to pissed about 0-day releases (the scan and distribution of comics as they appear in the stores) - of course the standard argument is that "well I've tried and it's made me go out and buy more comics" - leaving the anecdotal stuff aside, I don't see that happening - with marginal comics, why buy when you can get for free.

Harmful · 11-26-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moored

You know, all that has happened because of these Cease and Desist letters is that now more people know about this ZCult.

Exactly. I know how to search for scanned comics with google code, but I've never used anything organized like zcult. Now of course I'll have to check it out.

You'd think they would have learned from the record companies. Look what happened when they made a stink about napster, and it went to the national news. 99% of the record stores in the world have closed.

Why do you think the film industry hasnt made a target of specific pirating techniques or products like limewire?

Well I'm off to explore Zcult now...

Axelay · 11-26-2007, 10:30 AM

In addition to DC and Marvel trying to shut down the illegal choice, why not offer a LEGAL choice at the same time?

The argument I've heard before that "DC and Marvel don't offer brand new download-to-own comics because customers don't want them" is old and tired.

Has it ever occured to DC and Marvel that some people actually *do* want to download brand-new comics and read them on a computer monitor, and own the comics they download?

And this demand has been completely unmet...... maybe it's not a majority of comics fans, but the demand does exist. The existence of Z-Cult shows this demand.

The situation is analagous to the music industry back before the iTunes music store existed -- if you wanted legally purchased, brand new downloadable music, tough, the music industry would not offer it to you. Now, substitute the word "comics" for the word "music".

Duke Jupiter · 11-26-2007, 10:33 AM

Marvel and DC are totally within their rights to go after Zcult for what they're doing. It's not Zcult's material to do what they wish with it.

- DJ

JoeZhang · 11-26-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axelay

Has it ever occured to DC and Marvel that some people actually want to download brand-new comics and read them on a computer monitor?

There is obviously a demand for download-to-own brand-new comics that DC and Marvel aren't meeting. Maybe it's not a majority of comics fans, but the demand does exist.

The situation is analagous to the music industry back before the iTunes music store existed -- if you wanted legally purchased, brand-new downloadable music, tough, the music industry would not offer it to you. Now, substitute the word "comics" for the word "music".

and there is no downside to them doing this - why? because 99% of what they have published has already been pirated - it's not that the horse has bolted, it's that the horse has bolted, won the derby and then retired to a small island to write a award winning novel.

They have to understand that the paradigm has shifted with digital - you cannot get everyone to pay, but if you provide material in the right format - enough people will pay to make it worth your time. The concept that you cannot get everyone to pay is a reality that companies take a time to wake up to.

N. Blownapart · 11-26-2007, 10:36 AM

"Take down your website," seems like a pretty bold command for any legal notice. It reeks of big company bullying the little company because it has a better product. If Marvel and DC really want to shut down Zcult, offer what they offer, real downloads, real issues, no ridiculous 6 month gap. People will pay for it, look at iTunes compared to sub services like napster. The RIAA and other brass thought digital distro wouldn't work and now it's their number three retailer. Digital distro would probably be easily match the direct market and may even match some of the TPB sales.

Axelay · 11-26-2007, 10:36 AM

Duke Jupiter: Nobody is claiming that it is Z-Cult's material, or that Z-Cult is a legal service.

The first paragraph of my post clearly stated that Z-Cult was the illegal choice.

Mark Cardwell · 11-26-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axelay

In addition to DC and Marvel trying to shut down the illegal choice, why not offer a LEGAL choice at the same time?

The argument I've heard before that "DC and Marvel don't offer brand new download-to-own comics because customers don't want them" is old and tired.

Has it ever occured to DC and Marvel that some people actually *do* want to download brand-new comics and read them on a computer monitor?

There is obviously a demand for download-to-own brand new comics that DC and Marvel aren't meeting. Maybe it's not a majority of comics fans, but the demand does exist. The existence of Z-Cult shows this demand.

The situation is analagous to the music industry back before the iTunes music store existed -- if you wanted legally purchased, brand new downloadable music, tough, the music industry would not offer it to you. Now, substitute the word "comics" for the word "music".

Yup, given a choice, people will pick hassle-free and legal. If, however, they don't have that choice, they'll pursue other options (i.e. illegal and potentially hassle-tastic).

Marvel's current option is a half-arsed fudge: legal, hassle-tastic, and prohibitively expensive.

It's hardly rocket science: everybody get together, Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image; pick a preferred open platform; and start a iTunes for comics.

JoeZhang · 11-26-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N. Blownapart

"Take down your website," seems like a pretty bold command for any legal notice. It reeks of big company bullying the little company because it has a better product.

No it's a case of the big company saying stop selling OUR product.

some people have a difficult time grasping a simple concept - you have no right to someone's IP. While I'd like to see legal downloads, marvel and DC are not the badguys in this - unless trying to protect your IP is a bad thing.

Darthphere · 11-26-2007, 10:47 AM

I downloaded comics from Z-Cult because I like to make comic book icons. It's a lot easier to download a comic and save a page then going and scanning everything myself. I still buy my comics, my $1.37 in my wallet right now can attest to that.

So quick question. As of right now, they're still shut down right?

BornToRun · 11-26-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

No it's a case of the big company saying stop selling OUR product.

some people have a difficult time grasping a simple concept - you have no right to someone's IP. While I'd like to see legal downloads, marvel and DC are not the badguys in this - unless trying to protect your IP is a bad thing.

It took me two and a half read-throughs to understand this--is "IP" a standard abbreviation for intellectual property in legal circles or something? I was reading it as in Internet Protocol.

Meteoro7 · 11-26-2007, 10:53 AM

I'd certainly buy downloadable Marvel and DC books if they were set in the right format. The current one for Marvel is just creepy. Did they even test it with fans? I hightly doubt it.

Living outside of the States, buying them through mail orders are the only option, and with so many, let's call them "sadly done books", picking the right ones from catalogs is basically impossible.

Marvel and DC do have a world wide market and they haven't realized, but this market is in constant agony because prizes go up to 4 and 5 times the prize sold in your local stores, plus the sad fact that you're never certain you'll get a complete storyline, or even a complete series. During the 90's I followed a few titles and you have no clue how many places I had to visit to just get half the books I wanted.

So, they certainly have a market oportunity and they're addressing it all wrong. If they plan to play the big coporate attitude towards fans, they will only get the fans repulsion in the end and that's kind of shooting themselves in the foot.