WHOSE KINGDOM COME? GEOFF JOHNS TALKS JSA

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

There are few superhero stories in the DC Comics Universe more revered and discussed than Kingdom Come.

But while comic book fans know the story well – and many are able to cite a long list of original heroes who appeared in the tale – the characters of the current DC Universe hadn't heard of it.

Until now.

In this week's Justice Society of America #10, an issue written by Geoff Johns and Alex Ross and pencilled by Dale Eaglesham, the heroes of the DCU are dealing with the sudden arrival of Kingdom Come Superman in the beginning of a three-issue story titled, "Thy Kingdom Come."

When DC's new multiverse was created at the end of 52, the 52 earths added to the DCU included Earth-22 – where the characters from Kingdom Come reside in an alternate universe. The existence of these characters within the framework of the current DCU made it possible for Johns to tell this story with Ross, who created the Kingdom Come characters with writer Mark Waid in the award-winning 1996 miniseries.

In a discussion littered with spoilers, Newsarama talked to Johns about the Justice Society story and its impact on the DCU, as well as the meaning behind the mysterious clues and deaths that JSA members are investigating in this storyline. And on a week that also saw the release of his first Action Comics issue with artist Gary Frank, we followed up on that story, the latest status of the Sinestro Corps War, and found out that Geoff Johns the writer has a little more in common with his fear-battling Green Lanterns than any of us knew.

Newsarama: Having Alex Ross' art in this issue, representing Earth-22, really gave it a different dynamic and emphasized the story being told of a different universe. Was that something you wanted to do with the art in this story?

Geoff Johns: We (and by we I mean me, Alex, Dale and Michael Siglain) wanted to approach this as, if we're going to do another world, a parallel reality, then let's spend some time developing it and making it really important to the characters experiencing it when we juxtapose it against ours. We didn’t want to treat anything dealing with a parallel Earth like “just another story,” which I think the danger is. It should only be used here and there, and it should always have weight to it, in my opinion – the reason to interact with a parallel world should come out of a need to explore the characters emotionally.

Alex was always very anxious and eager, while we’ve been working on this storyline, to give it a different feel when we cut to that universe. That's why you have those paintings inside the book. It gives it a really different dynamic. You feel that he's from a different place. You get to peek at this world that a lot of people already know from Kingdom Come. The fact that Alex is generating new Kingdom Come art for this is pretty amazing.

We're dealing specifically with a different universe and specifically with Superman in Justice Society right now, and we want to spend the time trying to do it in the most respectful way to Kingdom Come.

NRAMA: And it was unique the way that Dale Eaglesham's art worked with the painted Kingdom Come pages.

GJ: Dale was extremely concerned about illustrating the Kingdom Come Superman. He wanted his presence to have the proper impact. I know Alex was thrilled with his rendition as was I. You feel the weight of his world on his shoulders at all times. He’s just “heavy.”

NRAMA: Now that we’ve read the first issue of the story, it’s obvious there are some themes that were established early in your relaunch of Justice Society that are being further explored through the arrival of Kingdom Come Superman. You’ve said from the start that the Justice Society was all about guiding young, new superheroes so they can become better heroes, and the Kingdom Come story was about how the young, new heroes of that world were without guidance. Was that theme something that evolved as you and Alex developed this story?

GJ: Alex had always had a story that he wanted to follow up on. And we had talked over the years about doing it. He had always talked about how he had an idea, and I always talked about how I always liked the comparison of the DCU currently and the Kingdom Come DCU, because this is a pretty great place in comparison. So that's where the story started to develop. To the JSA, this is a world without the JSA, and to Kingdom Come Superman, this is the world that his world could have been, if he didn't walk away.

NRAMA: And in this issue, some of the things Kingdom Come Superman said spoke volumes about that comparison between the two universes. When he caught the girl jumping out of the window, he says, "Giving up never helped anyone, Miss."

GJ: Yeah. We didn't want to hit everyone over the head with it right away, and I think there's a lot of subtlety in that issue with the initial encounters and discussions with Superman. Some of it won’t be picked up until the story is over.

NRAMA: In particular, there was some of that when Obsidian was talking to him.

GJ: Yeah, and what other character is more apt to talk to Superman about the highs and lows of the JSA and what they strive to do than a member who is kept in the shadows, no pun intended [laughs], but kept in the shadows and had his own ups and downs himself? At one point, he was considered a "villain." It was the right time for him to come out of the shadows.

NRAMA: And who better to talk about allowing people to learn from their mistakes?

GJ: Yeah. And deal with the mistakes. Overcome them. Obsidian embodies that, I think.

NRAMA: You totally fooled me, you know, when Kingdom Come Superman started hearing this voice talking about not belonging on this world. I thought it was something really important that had him so desperate to find that voice. He knocked down a door and busted out of that room.

GJ: It was important!

NRAMA: That’s true. It was! He was just being Superman. Saving a life. It surprised all of them.

GJ: Yeah. It was important to him. It's a girl who had given up.

NRAMA: The way he did. But he stopped her.

GJ: Yep. And that girl, if you look closely, if people are really immersed in Kingdom Come, they might find something familiar about that girl.

NRAMA: It's a Kingdom Come reference? Are there a lot of those?

GJ: There are a lot of “annotations” in here. If you don't know Kingdom Come, you can follow the story and get a sense of where Superman is coming from. But if you do know Kingdom Come, if you really know it, you'll see a lot of things in the story that will be familiar and some fun developments as we move forward.

NRAMA: Let's talk about Power Girl's feelings, because last issue, you started this whole journey with Power Girl's dream of her cousin from the former Earth-2. Is this tough for her to be around this Kingdom Come Superman? What is she going through?

GJ: Well, this Superman claims to be from another world just like Power Girl's from another world. And she can't help but feel a little disappointed and let down because it looks just like her cousin. That's why she's got to deal with the fact that her cousin's not come back.

NRAMA: But doesn't the revelation of other worlds existing, other alternate earths, doesn't that open up the possibility, in her mind, that she might have a home out there?

GJ: Yes. Exactly. At the same time, this is an indication that maybe there is something out there. Is there hope? And that's something we're going to be dealing with, with Power Girl, throughout this storyline. Obviously, Superman and Power Girl are going to be the main focus in the next few issues.

NRAMA: OK, let's talk about the mystery that Mr. Terrific and Dr. Mid-Nite are investigating after Goth was taken down in the paint factory. There are a lot of little clues here in this scene. Dr. Mid-Nite's cough – is that something we should be picking up on?

GJ: It's just coughing. I cough sometimes. [laughs]

NRAMA: Oh, come on. [laughs]

GJ: It’s a touch of reality. [laughs]

NRAMA: And there are the letters, "G" and "O" on the wall.

GJ: Yeah. "Go."

NRAMA: Does it mean "go?" Or is it part of something else?

GJ: It says "go," from what I can see.

NRAMA: I'm sure there are a lot of guesses about what "go" could mean. And another "g" word that is thrown around a lot in this issue is "god." In that scene in the charred paint factory, one of the characters talks about Goth having "feigned godhood." And when Chroma is killed later in the issue, there's mention of him thinking he's a god. And the villainous owner of the mysterious eyes at the end talked about being a god. So ... does this story have something to do with gods? You know... like... "new" ones?

GJ: Um... nooo.

NRAMA: No?

GJ: You'll see. You'll see what happens. Keep reading and we're going to be exploring what this is all about. Most people will pick up on a lot of things right away and we’re not trying to be too secretive about it.

NRAMA: Is it possible that more than one person came here from the Kingdom Come earth?

GJ: Superman was the only one who came through that black hole.

NRAMA: And when Jay says that he has the feeling that "after everything we've been through, it's not quite over," is that foreshadowing? He's talking about the last crisis, and how he thinks there's more to come. Or was it just another indication that everyone from the JSA to the JLA is taking this pretty seriously?

GJ: Again, it's this huge deal. I believe that any interaction with the multiverse should be treated as unbelievable.

NRAMA: Well, yeah. We take multiple earths for granted as readers, but these characters don't know about them, so it should be a big deal to them.

GJ: It's a massive deal! So when it's another Superman coming in, it's a massive event. It's a huge event for these characters to realize there is something else out there. And the last time another Superman came here, something big happened. What's going to happen this time? Is there something coming? What's going on?

NRAMA: It's got Batman nervous. And now Jay and Wally are going to fire up the cosmic treadmill to check out this new multiverse.

GJ: Yeah. They're going to light it up. [laughs]

NRAMA: [laughs] You like that, don't you? Writing the Flash again?

GJ: Yeah. I love the fact that I could write Wally West again. It was great, even if it was just for a couple panels. I’d like to write more Flash someday.

NRAMA: So the JLA has shown up, and now the tease for the next issue says that "Superman meets Superman." What else can we expect from this story? Can you tell us what's coming in the next issue?

GJ: The next issue, the revelations and mysteries deepen. And with the first year coming to a close, we look at the completion of the recruitment of new Society members like Damage and Cyclone and Starman and Citizen Steel and Liberty Belle and everybody else. With the first wave of recruitment complete, who's successful? And they're about to initiate the second wave.

NRAMA: We've seen the cover for Issue #12, including Jakeem Thunder, the new Mr. America, Judomaster, Amazing Man, and a couple new characters you've named as Lightning and Lance Corporal David Ried. Can you tell us anything about who they are and what they're going to bring to the Justice Society?

GJ: I can say they’re as different as our first wave. As bizarre and unique and strange as Citizen Steel and Cyclone. We don’t want cookie cutter heroes. Not here. But the team is getting big…and that’s going to be an issue. Not every new recruit is a success story.

NRAMA: Anything else you can tell us about what’s coming in future issues?

GJ: Just that Dale is doing the work of his career. We spent two days talking about who Judomaster is and how she interacts with the JSA.

NRAMA: Getting back to the “Thy Kingdom Come” storyline, did approaching it feel like a risk to you? People look back at Kingdom Come as being iconic. I know you had Alex Ross involved in creating this storyline and you mentioned before how you wanted to be “respectful” and take your time developing the story, but was it a little intimidating when you started working on it and playing with such iconic characters?

GJ: No, because I'm working with Dale and Alex. I'm working with the best in the business. And I'm not really intimidated by this stuff.

NRAMA: You’re not intimidated?

GJ: No. It's like a lot of stories I've done. When they said, "You're bringing back Hal Jordan?" I said, "Yeah." And they said, "Oh, you're insane. Why do you want to do that?" And I was like, "Because he’s a great character and there’s room for all the Green Lanterns." And when we launched Teen Titans? Mike McKone told me everyone told him he was crazy for leaving Exiles to go to Teen Titans because it had been canceled three times. And people told me, "Why are you going to do Teen Titans? It's a scrub book." And I just said, "Because it's going to be fun and the Teen Titans isn’t a scrub book. It’s one of the best DC concepts out there." You know?

I just don't get being afraid of telling a story. It's almost like Green Lantern.

NRAMA: Overcoming fear.

GJ: Yeah. You've got to overcome your fears. I was just talking to another writer about this the other night. We were talking about assignments and stuff. And I'm not afraid to take a risk to tell a story I believe in. If I'm really excited about telling a story about Kingdom Come Superman coming to the JSA, and if I think it will be a cool story and worth telling and it's important to the characters, I'm going to tell that story. If I think Hal Jordan and the Corps coming back to the DC Universe is important to the DC Universe and Green Lantern mythology, I'm going to tell that story. Same thing with Teen Titans. And even Infinite Crisis. As much as I wish the art was uniform, there’s still a lot I love about that series. Hell, Prime is one of my favorite characters ever now.

I've heard it all my career that I've made the wrong choice. "You're going to follow Mark Waid on The Flash? That's stupid. That's career suicide." "You're going to do 52? That's going to bomb." "You're going to relaunch JSA? You already did it!” And "Why are you wasting your time on Booster Gold? Why would you ever do that?" But I believe in going for it and I’d rather fall on my face than not try.

NRAMA: OK, "overcoming fear" is starting to sound accurate. It's like a pattern with you.

GJ: I guess I thrive a little bit on the challenge of telling stories that I think can work, will be important, and will be fun – and at the same time people are telling us that we can't do that. I don't believe in that.

NRAMA: Let's talk about another story you were excited to tell – the return in Action Comics of the Legion of Super-Heroes that Superman remembers from his childhood. We just talked to you about this story recently, but the first issue with Gary Frank on art came out this week. Can you tell readers what to expect in the next issue?

GJ: Next issue we explore what the state of the 31st century is. Superman will discover the source of the state of affairs in the future, why the Legion has been scattered about, why the police reacted the way they did to him, who the Justice League of Earth is, and where the rest of the Legionnaires are. Gary Frank is just crushing this.

NRAMA: And although we did a pretty extensive "war report" with you after Green Lantern #23, we've seen a few more developments in the Sinestro Corps War since we last talked. Kyle Rayner’s free of Parallax’s influence and Mogo is safe, but Superman-Prime has been explored as a serious threat and you’ve introduced Sodam Yat as the new Ion, complete with the willpower-driven Ion entity inside him. We just saw Superman-Prime tear through most of the heroes in the DCU. Is Sodam Yat going to be able to battle with Prime when we see their showdown in next month’s Green Lantern Corps #18?

GJ: Sodam Yat will certainly try. He's pretty powerful. He's a Daxamite and a Green Lantern, so he's got all the power of a Kryptonian and a Green Lantern ring. So he's going to do his damnedest.

NRAMA: And you exposed Superman-Prime's true motivation, which was something we didn't know before.

GJ: He's just biding his time until the Anti-Monitor has everything he wants. Then when the Anti-Monitor wins, he's going to take it from him, just like he did to him when he destroyed Earth-Prime. Just when Prime's dreams came true, the Anti-Monitor took it. Now Prime is planning to return the favor.

NRAMA: And then we just got the news that Green Lantern #25 was pushed back a couple weeks to a December 12th release. Do you want to address that?

GJ: I did, but I can do it again. It's 54 pages, and Ivan Reis is drawing over 40 of them and Ethan Van Sciver is drawing the rest. It's a massive book, and we want to keep the quality level up as high as it can be. And in order to do that, we could have pushed it back a week and probably have made it, or pushed it back two weeks and definitely made it. So we chose to do it the way we thought was right, the way that the book will come out being the best it can be. If it was a month late, we would have looked at alternate solutions. But I think when it's two weeks, it's doable, especially with what we're asking Ivan to draw – enough pages that it's like two issues in six weeks.

NRAMA: You know, a 54-page issue is pretty big for a writer to accomplish too.

GJ: I'm extremely proud of it. I hope people like it. I hope they're satisfied with the ending. I worked really hard on it.

NRAMA: Between “Thy Kingdom Come in Justice Society, the kick off of a new Booster Gold series, the Sinestro Corps War in Green Lantern, and the Legion storyline in Action Comics, your monthly comics are causing a lot of excitement among readers right now. I remember that after Infinite Crisis, in a lot of interviews, you said you wanted to concentrate for awhile on your monthlies. And you wanted to make them the best that they can be. Do you feel like you're getting there?

GJ: I'm happy with the way things are going. I'm really happy with how my books are shaping up, and I love all the people I work with and the characters I work with. It's not about amping up the action or anything like that; it's just about making them higher quality. I'll do whatever I can to just make the books better and better and better. Learn from my mistakes and the writers around me I look up to. That’s why I enjoyed 52 so much. I hope people are enjoying the books.

[SuperFobby]

first!

and... geoff johns is clearly the best mainstream superhero writer out there right now.

[Walter o'Dim]

Geoff Johns is probably the best writer in comics right now, JSA and GL are brilliant.

[Grievous]

well done, i am enjoying every single comic geoff johns puts out,

JSA is my fav
The GL
Then Action comics
Then Booster gold

[jlawesome]

Geoff Johns is amazing! Great interview!

[Marius665]

Since Sodam Yat has the Ion entity and a power ring, wouldn't it make sense for Prime to have a SC ring or be the next host of Parallax

I dont know, it just would have made a better fight to me. Why Prime doesn't have a SC ring I dont freakin' know?

but hands down is one of the best GL stories I've ever read

and how does the regular Superman feel about the Kingdom Come Superman?

[KingConan]

Great interview. GJ is definitely one of the best writers at DC, he has been knocking everything he writes out of the park. Thanks for maintaining such a high level of quality in your books Geoff...if it wasn't for you I would probably only be buying a handful of DC books a month. As long as DC will keep you around i'll continue to buy everything you write.

[dalunt]

Originally Posted by Walter o'Dim

Geoff Johns is probably the best writer in comics right now, JSA and GL are brilliant.

Geoff Johns is the reason I look forward to seeing that DC logo on my comics every week.

Reading Marvel for 20 years, I got into DC around Identity Crisis and kept going thanks to GJ's brilliant work.

By far the best "Superhero" writer around.

[Xero]

If you think Kingdom Come is revered you really need to talk to more black comic book readers. The ones I've talked to use much shorter four letter words when referring to that title, and the semiotics of race according to Alex Ross.

In the Kingdom Come universe almost all the white people are good and many of the brown people are unruly and require "education". And Geoff, the cover to JSA #12 doesn't help matters.

[CYOTI]

Originally Posted by Marius665

I dont know, it just would have made a better fight to me. Why Prime doesn't have a SC ring I dont freakin' know?

Because Prime is a whiney bitch who probably can't utilize the SC rings properly. Look at how much effort it took for Hal to use them on Qward.

[CParadise]

I honestly thought that nothing could top JSA this week. Already one of my favorite titles, this issue stepped it up again. But then I read Action comics.

IF you have not read it, go run to your favorite comic shop and get that book. If it's not enough that Gary Frank is doing the art, the story alone will blow you away. I can't believe the lack of attention that issue got, it's freakin' brilliant.

Also, Gary frank GETS Superman on a level that only Frank Quietly GETS Superman. Just look at the difference in his Clark Kent and Superman, wow, the guy is pure Genius.

[Crump's Brother]

I had no idea about this crossover as I don't read JSA. I'll pick this up!

[Grievous]

Prime does not need a Sinestro corps ring

[KingConan]

Originally Posted by Xero

If you think Kingdom Come is revered you really need to talk to more black comic book readers. The ones I've talked to use much shorter four letter words when referring to that title, and the semiotics of race according to Alex Ross.

In the Kingdom Come universe almost all the white people are good and many of the brown people are unruly and require "education". And Geoff, the cover to JSA #12 doesn't help matters.

They made one of the best superheros ever a brown guy in KC....

Ib'n Al Xhnauff or whatever his name was. You got Batman on your side man...you win!

[Marius665]

Originally Posted by Grievous

Prime does not need a Sinestro corps ring

then how is he apart of the Sinestro Corps, all of the Corps members, rather Green or Yellow have rings

he'd be alot stronger if he had a ring and it wouldn't be as predictable that Ion was going to kick his ass

[Genki]

Johns is amazing:

Green Lantern
Booster Gold
JSA
even Action Comics (I usually don't read Superman, but I liked the Bizarro story)

He overcomes his fears, not to mention whining fanboys, and soars.

[Nate-Earth 2]

Originally Posted by SuperFobby

first!

and... geoff johns is clearly the best mainstream superhero writer out there right now.

I couldn't agree more. Geoff John's works are what I look forward to every week that they come out, because I know I'm going to get a great story, from a guy who really cares about his work and the characters.

[Nate-Earth 2]

Originally Posted by Xero

If you think Kingdom Come is revered you really need to talk to more black comic book readers. The ones I've talked to use much shorter four letter words when referring to that title, and the semiotics of race according to Alex Ross.

In the Kingdom Come universe almost all the white people are good and many of the brown people are unruly and require "education". And Geoff, the cover to JSA #12 doesn't help matters.

I really don't think the creators of Kingdom Come attempted some sort of racist social commentary when writing their work. And I think it deserves the title of 'revered' because, I've never heard of anyone who didn't see it as a great peice of storytelling and art...until now, i suppose.

[Eobard T]

Geoff's books are the best thing coming out of DC right now. I've been pretty disappointed in the rest of their output lately, but the "Johns-verse" books (GL, JSA, Action, Booster) are all on fire!

[rdrsfn82]

I really enjoyed this issue and I'm loving everything Johns is writing right now. He's really gotten back in stride. I mean GL is amazing right now, Booster Gold has been great so far, JSA has been great since the end of the Lightning Saga, and Action has been very solid since the start of the Bizzaro World story.

[Matthew E]

Originally Posted by Marius665

Since Sodam Yat has the Ion entity and a power ring, wouldn't it make sense for Prime to have a SC ring or be the next host of Parallax

I dont know, it just would have made a better fight to me. Why Prime doesn't have a SC ring I dont freakin' know?

Maybe it's because Superboy-Prime doesn't have any particular gift for instilling great fear. Look at all his interactions in Infinite Crisis: nobody was really scared of him. They had a healthy respect for his power, yes, but he didn't scare anyone. Guy Gardner called him a crybaby. Bart Allen, despite being significantly underpowered by comparison, couldn't wait to get a piece of him.

[uscwamer]

If it wasn't for him i wouldn't buy a single DC book, because of him i buy more DC than i do Marvel.

JSA, Action, Green Lantern, and BOOSTER(shame this interview didnt have much info about it..because it is simply ..the BEST)

[Marius665]

Originally Posted by Matthew E

Maybe it's because Superboy-Prime doesn't have any particular gift for instilling great fear. Look at all his interactions in Infinite Crisis: nobody was really scared of him. They had a healthy respect for his power, yes, but he didn't scare anyone. Guy Gardner called him a crybaby. Bart Allen, despite being significantly underpowered by comparison, couldn't wait to get a piece of him.

then why is he a member of a corps which sole intention is to spread great fear?

[Mikel@Titan]

Originally Posted by Marius665

Since Sodam Yat has the Ion entity and a power ring, wouldn't it make sense for Prime to have a SC ring or be the next host of Parallax

I dont know, it just would have made a better fight to me. Why Prime doesn't have a SC ring I dont freakin' know?

but hands down is one of the best GL stories I've ever read

and how does the regular Superman feel about the Kingdom Come Superman?

I thought that the reason that Prime doesn't have a ring is because he can't overcome his fear...

oh and Anti-Monitor isn't dumb too

[gwangung]

Originally Posted by Nate-Earth 2

I really don't think the creators of Kingdom Come attempted some sort of racist social commentary when writing their work. And I think it deserves the title of 'revered' because, I've never heard of anyone who didn't see it as a great peice of storytelling and art...until now, i suppose.

They may not have attempted it or meant it...but the implications of their choices certainly has meaning. It's not a pleasant world, the Kingdom Come world...perhaps that's relevant?