TALKING TO JUNOT DIAZ, II - COMIC WRITERS AND WRITERS WRITING COMICS

[MattBrady]

by Zack Smith

Click here for part one.

Neswarama: Junot, you mentioned several current books you enjoy – what are some others you read? It sounds like you have a pretty extensive monthly catalog.

Junot Díaz: I read as much as I can – I love the form.

Every now and then, a new Red Star issue arrives – I’m like, “Yahoo!” Powers is always hot. And I’ve got to admit, I’ve got an ill weakness – this will probably reveal me as the dumbass I am – I’ve always had an ill weakness for Fantastic Four. And I’ve always, always, always had a weakness for Captain Marvel and Green Lantern. So the whole new Sinestro Corps stuff is….I love that crap. You gotta love that stuff.

NRAMA: It’s a lot of fun. You read Annihilation over at Marvel?

JD: I tried it…I dunno, maybe I was in the wrong mood.

NRAMA: It’s a lot like Sinestro Corps, a big war comic in space.

JD: I’ll give it a chance now that it’s out complete. That sounds hot.

You know who I really love, even though they’re kind of bizarre? The Luna Brothers. Girls was the weirdest, funnest book I’ve read in a while.

NRAMA: They’ve got that new book, The Sword, that just came out.

JD: Yeah, I’ve heard! I’m really looking forward to it.

NRAMA: You were talking about comics experimenting with new narrative streams earlier. One thing I enjoyed about Girls was that it took 24 issues to tell a story that, beat by beat, roughly came to the equivalent of an hour-and-a-half movie.

JD: Yeah, totally. Really well said. They just tell their stories in very interesting ways. One of the things I like about them goes back to what you were asking about what direction I would like to see comics heading in – I think the Luna brothers are a great example of what certain comic book artists are up to in terms of real good stuff.

I’m not against “The Big Two,” nothing like that – I think there’s a lot of great work being done in those stables. But in my future, in my dreams, the playing field is a lot more balanced. The smaller guys get a lot more space.

Can you think about the kind of canonical freedom that Japanese comic book creators have, that they’re not shackled by these pantheons that they have to address over and over and over again? It’s kind of a weird thing. It’s almost Soviet Communist Party, where you have to pay tribute to the statues of the old commissars, and the commissars have to be appeased every year.

I think the reason why there’s so much great new stuff happening in manga is because they’re not burdened with trying to figure out new variations on stories that probably should have been retired a long time ago.

NRAMA: Which is interesting when you consider that in the last decade, there have been several continuity reboots or at least…tweaks at Marvel and DC.

JD: Yeah, I think it sort of speaks to diminishing returns. I mean, it’s almost like being trapped, bro, when you have these intellectual properties and you have to keep going with them.

I mean, I understand – it’s their intellectual property, and you just can’t throw away your property. That’s what sells – people want to see their retreads. They want to see the same story.

When you think about the pantheon titles – Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Hulk – they are sort of narratives of consolation. They give the reader a narrative in the guise of the new, but they console them with the familiar. And I’m like, “Fuck that!”

NRAMA: On another note, you mentioned earlier how there’s been more and more of an influence of comics on novels, such as Barry Lyga’s Fanboy and Goth Girl, Austin Grossman’s Soon I Will Be Invincible in the past year. Have you read any of those?

JD: Sure, but I’ve also read Minister Faust. Minister Faust is a writer from Canada, a black Canadian writing some wild fanboy shit. His last book was sort of about a supervillain on the psychiatrist’s couch. The book is called From the Notebook of Dr. Brain, and it’s hilarious.

My thing is – I’m part of this tradition. I’ve been reading in this tradition for as long as I can remember. I really read wide, and I really read far. And I’m hoping that comic book readers and editors start understanding that there’s a lot more of us in this tradition than they think.

I think that even inside our own insular universe, we don’t acknowledge the participation of so many people who are into comics. Myself, I think it’s kind of fucked up that Minister Faust writes this amazing book that’s about a supervillain on the couch, and he’s almost marginalized in a way. It’s too bad.

NRAMA: …and you have just insured that I’m going to have to read this book so I can interview Minister Faust next.

JD: Do it, bro! (laughs) But you were asking me a question –

NRAMA: Well, there have been a lot of “literary” novels involving comic book elements – It’s Superman, Kavalier and Clay, obviously…have you enjoyed some of the books that have extensive comic references? What do you feel works about them, and what would you like to see in the future?

JD: Well, I know I’m going to get slammed for this…you know what? I’m just going to get into it.

I think the problem is that when you see literary people sort of dabbling in comic books, it’s kind of uni-directional. In other words, we literary types can go dabble in comic books, but it doesn’t change the fact that we’re still considered “high literary” writers. We can go through and rummage through this material and talk about supervillains, and we’ll still get nominated for Pulitzers and other awards.

Now…the same thing really ain’t true when you’re a comic book artist. Let’s say you’re a comic book artist, you draw superhero comics. It’s not like your average Superman artist (at least at this moment) going to gain mainstream literary acceptance doing comic books. In other words, I dream of a day when the guy who’s writing the Hulk is up for a Pulitzer, and not just the literary writer who jumps in and writes a novel about the Hulk.

It’s almost as if the literary writers have an American passport, and we can go into the third world of comic books any time we want, and we can come back fine. But comic book writers are like holding passports from North Korea, and when they try to enter the pearly gates of the high literary nation, they’re always stopped and blocked and stripped and denied access.

It’s an interesting thing. I think this kind of mashup between high and low culture is good, but I don’t want anybody to hide the privilege and the power that one has over the other. Michael Chabon writes a book about comic books and everyone’s on his jock, but Michael Chabon is never going to be competing with the poor guy who’s writing Sinestro Corps for an award of high literary merit. And I’m like, “Why not?”

There are superhero comic books – and I know people will laugh at this – there are superhero comic books that are as strong as the literature that’s given awards! There’s just this kind of bias against these people being on the same fuckin’ award table, you know?

NRAMA: It sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this.

JD: Well, I’m a nerd. I do think about these things a lot. Part of the reason I wrote this book the way I wrote it was because I wasn’t using the bells and whistles of a comic book to try and get a new demographic.

In other words, this book doesn’t advertise itself as, “Come, fanboys! Here’s literature for you!” It just accepts that comic books and comic book language are an essential, invaluable and undeniable aspect of the literary code.

For me, it is one of the great American forms, and I think it should be treated like that. It shouldn’t be treated like a shiny coat or a shiny costume that we put on when we want attention. I think it should be recognized and acknowledged as part of the literary vocabulary that we have been playing with for the last hundred years.

NRAMA: Another way that comics have become more of a part of “mainstream” culture in the last decade is that comics have become easier to translate into a live-action medium, such as the many superhero films – and also films like 300, 30 Days of Night, Ghost World and American Splendor. And of course you’ve got Heroes on TV.

But in terms of just the superhero movies – you make the point that superhero comics have fallen into a cyclical storytelling pattern, but now a lot of superhero stories have become something almost groundbreaking on film and TV.

JD: There is a deep hunger for the fantastic. Everyone want there to be something larger than the world we’re in. Especially now in a time when what we call the real is so awful and unbearable—this is when people most need their heroic narratives.

And Hollywood is always looking for great stories (what they do with these stories is another matter) and as we know comic books provide not only great stories but the visual vocabulary for telling them! From a producer’s point of view it’s two for one!

My thing is that, like you’re pointing out, a lot of the conventions from comics are being imported into other mediums. It’s like people are people are cherry-picking the best parts of it. In some ways, I think that that’s wonderful. But it doesn’t seem to lead to any more respect for the medium. The industry is still shrinking year after year after year.

It’s not a problem for us to loot all the cool Kirby ____ for our novels and movies. But we don’t seem to be interesting in giving MacArthur genius award to a Kirby, either.

NRAMA: Though you do have Jonathan Lethem, a MacArthur recipient, writing Omega the Unknown at Marvel.

JD: Well, yes. But do you think he’d have ever gotten that award if he only did comics, and had never written a literary book?

NRAMA: Good point.

JD: My question is that you don’t have people who do write comics and also receive literary awards, but where is the MacArthur grant given to someone who’s just a comic book person?

NRAMA: Well, it could happen someday.

JD: I agree, but I guess my critique is that it’s not going to happen if we don’t admit that there is an imbalance in prestige and in power and in some ways authority between people who have the passport of literature and people who work in strictly comic books.

But hey, I’m not saying I’m against any of the guys that do that – Lethem and Chabon, I think they’re brilliant. They’re wonderful. But part of me just feels like (sighs) there’s something a little bit like carpetbagging about it.

NRAMA: Going back to comics translating into live-action – you’re obviously a big Watchmen fan. How do you feel that we’re now at the point where there is going to be a live-action Watchmen movie, where they’re not treating it as camp and trying to keep an open dialogue with the fans that this will be faithful to the original comics? You spoke earlier about the perception of comic books and fandom in the 1980s – do you feel in some ways that this represents how far things have come?

JD: Things have really changed. The material, at least by some filmmakers, is being treated with respect. And the comics community matters, if only a little bit, to those making these projects, and that’s no small thing. We are mainstream now in ways we could have never imagined in the 1980s. No question.

As for the Watchmen movie, it’s just exciting to see people taking a chance. A lot of people say, “Ugh, as soon as someone makes a movie out of a comic book, it’s junk,” but I say, “Well, at least people are trying. It’s better that they try and fail than don’t try at all.”

NRAMA: Anything else you’d like to talk about that we haven’t covered yet?

JD: Well, I’m an obsessive Nexus fan. I was one of those people who thought Nexus was the greatest thing ever, pure space opera. And I love GØDLAND. Shit cracks me up. And of course, Matt Wagner.

In my heart, one of the things I think the comics field should be most proud of is the way comic book readers, comic book writers, people who are involved in the medium – how all of them have worked to keep alive the legacy of Jack Kirby.

Kirby was, as we all know, horribly treated – treated like garbage by the Big Two. And yet, so many people who loved him, who were influenced by him have created an institution of writing about Kirby, of paying homage.

In some ways, that’s what makes me the most proud to be a reader, a lover of this form. I would be so ashamed of us if we hadn’t kept that man’s work alive and important and valid, so others can understand how important he was to what’s being done now.

The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao is in bookstores now.

[Nepthys]

this guy is soo my new hero! I cant wait to get my hands on his book! what a frank, refreshingly candid interview! a lot of what he said encapsulates a lot of my own feelings about the industry! amazing interview! thanks!

and Goddess be praised! first post!

[CitC]

Great article. It's interesting to hear those opinions from someone with some clout/rep in the literary world. The big Northrup Fry Lit festival in my city has started including comic creators. Harvey Pekar was here last year.

Mr. Diaz, (if you are reading this) it sounds like you might enjoy Rocketo.

[kidvictory]

I'll buy this book on the interview alone!

It's too bad that the litereary world doesn't make the reverse jump where comic book writers do more novels.

I remember a prominent comics writer (can't point to the exact quote so I'll leave out names) talking about this and how his publisher didn't let him do alot of original material because he was perceived as a comic book guy. Never mind the fact that he's a great writer with a proven track record!

If you read any Christopher Moore or Jim Butcher, you see how these great novelists would make great comic book writers. The shame is we still have the unanswered question of how many of our great comic book writers would be the next Christopher Moore or Jim Butcher or Stephen King?

Hopefully as Hollywood continues to mine the ideas of comic book writers and novelists dip into our pool of comics, the pioneers in the trenches will be given the chance to do more novels.

And one day a graphic novel will be given the same level of acceptability as the all prose novel. Until then it seems we're always beating back the silly perception that was popularized by that 60's Batman show!

[heelmark]

http://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Little.../dp/0060723939

Wheels grind slowly.