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07-20-2007, 05:47 PM
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COUNTING DOWN WITH MIKE CARLIN: COUNTDOWN #41
 by Matt BradyThis week on Countdown: a team shrinks! Harley goes bananas Piper and Trickster splash down Jimmy becomes Mr. Action Mary’s being watched And Karate Kid gets a friend from the future. What doe sit all mean? We sat down with Countdown Editor Mike Carlin to figure it out, and roped in this week’s writer, Adam Beechen as well. Onward. Newsarama: Okay Mike - we've given you a couple of weeks to get your footing, and now...can you give us a snapshot of the Countdown process from your viewpoint? How hands on are you, say, with Paul on the story? Anything in particular been a tougher part of it all than you expected? Anything easier? Mike Carlin: Paul, the writer (in this case Adam Beechen), assistant editor, Elisabeth Gehrlein and I all do a conference call and discuss the issue at hand beat by beat. Paul has done an overview for the whole series... but, like real life, the story evolves and changes... so we react week-to-week based on what changes in the DCU. I can't speak to how earlier issues were done before Liz and I were involved, but I believe all participants on the conference call contribute all levels of ideas and suggestions. And while the general outline has been there from the start-- before Liz and I were involved-- there is alot of fluidity to the new elements by necessity, as the whole universe is fluid to new ideas. And that is the toughest part for us... it would have been easier for all if we were involved from the start. The easiest part is how smooth everyone works together-- and how they've let me and Liz join the fun! (should I add quotes to fun?) NRAMA: Speaking of that flexibility and fluidity - something that was mentioned in the early days of 52 was how open to change the larger storyline was, with certain plot points changed and added in as the series was already rolling. So Countdown is like that too? Has, say, reader feedback had an effect upon the story?? MC: Yeah, Countdown is like that-- every DC series is like that... in the process on Countdown everything can and does change, but based on feedback from those involved (including Dan DiDio). But I’m sorry to report that it's hard for us to react to reader feedback when we're already plotting 25 issues later. That's not to say we can't incorporate content to help explain any confusion... but the original story is still the story. NRAMA: Production wise, Keith Giffen isn't credited on this issue - when does he "officially" start on the series? MC: Many of our answers seem to be: "you'll see next week" in this interview...so... you'll see next week! Keith is back next week-- and except for one issue by Jim Califiore-- I'm assuming/hoping Keith will do 'em all! Adam Beechen: Keith actually did lay out a few pages in #41, but didn't get a credit -- he's modest like that. NRAMA: Mike, you're an old-school kinda guy - could you please lobby for some old-school kind of editor's notes boxes "For more with the Atom, see All-New Atom #13" or something like that that indicate where the storyline goes to and where it came from? Some of these elements seem to need a road map... MC: We were literally discussing this this week... and "old-school" or not, I decided that were we to footnote all connections to every DC comic that is in Countdown... no art would show through at all! "New-school" is where the internet does this for us! Thanks Newsarama and friends! NRAMA: Okay, getting into something that looks to be a continuity issue - the trip to the Palmer-verse starts in the jungle from Sword of the Atom? If those are the same jungles, those jungles weren't sub-atomic and in Central America…  MC: Yup... and clearly Atom in #13 isn't sub-atomic... and when Jason, Donna & the Monitor pick up Ryan Choi at the end of that issue-- they're bending down to a six-inch man. Then, after a stop at his house in Countdown (last issue) they go sub-atomic and meet different folks! Maybe the mechanical amphibians could’ve been clearer? NRAMA: Fair enough. Back to that point about the editor's boxes – as it was revealed on the news, Amazons took down the President's plane? Where did that happen? Why isn't there a pointer for readers to find it? MC: Countdown won't match every week but do check out Amazons Attack this month. NRAMA: Timing things out, it's on the news as a recap, so it's already happened, and Clark is just sweating the day away in the Daily Planet? Can we discuss how time is presented throughout this series? Is everything that we saw, scene-by-scene meant to be taken...at least...sequentially? It seems like this raises more issues that it settles - the Amazons are attacking and killing people, yet we see Clark Kent...just hanging out? It seems that, by inaction, he's at most endorsing, and at least, allowing the Amazon's actions... MC: It's on the news later in the issue... you really should give things some minute-to-minute time to unfold, no? This is an age old problem in a shared universe, though, why doesn't Superman intervene in every issue of Blue Beetle or Birds of Prey or everywhere in all titles... Sometimes when all is said and done, you can piece your year of all DC publications-- and figure a kinda place for everything... or you can just relax and enjoy the comic you're reading! p.s. this is the kinda stuff that leads to "the events in this issue happen before the events in this issue # whatever!" just more and more boxes that obscure already busy pages of art!   NRAMA: Yeah, but still - Clark's blase attitude while his adopted country is under attack and its citizens dying due to a friend's nation kind of goes to the larger question - what's the mood like in the DCU now? Sure, readers can see the larger threads, but does the average hero (okay, aside from Batman) realize anything big and bad is going on? MC: Again... at least let the timing in the issue you're reading dictate when things are happening...even Superman can't predict the news! Newsarama Note: The effects of Amazons Attack were first seen in Countdown 47, which, if going by the original explanation of time in this series, suggest that the Amazons have been attacking the U.S. for over a month. We still wonder how Clark can justify sitting around, but we’ll move on. NRAMA: Speaking of that "sense of something going on" something that was a hallmark of 52 was it's separate plot threads that, despite many readers' predictions, remained virtually separate through the entire story. Given the canvas is much larger for this story, will we be seeing that happen in Countdown, or will storylines weave in and through each other and reach their own conclusions? MC: These stories will criss-cross and meld to the end... at least the threads that don't end suddenly-- and tragically! Here's a way to look at Countdown... it's not 52. 52 covered a lost year-- 52 literal weeks. Countdown is several stories that play out in their own time... not a year's worth in the DCU. Nothing that happens in the DCU happens in real time... Lois & Clark have known each other for maybe 8 or 9 years in real time-- but they've celebrated twenty Christmas issues since 1986 alone! If you think about it too much you will die! NRAMA: Okay, well that’s one way to handle it. Again, back to the editor's box comments - the Karate Kid scene...when we last saw him in Countdown, he was fine. Nothing bad happened. Now, they're carrying him...what happened, when, and where? MC: Dude, give up on the editors' boxes. NRAMA: Never. Thing is, if you're going to say that Countdown #42 was before “The Lightning Saga,” and this scene in #41 was after, that doesn't wash, as All-Flash #1 showed clearly that Wally got back within an hour of Bart dying - but we already saw Bart's funeral in #43...which Wally apparently skipped out on for his own reasons. Time and events can be fluid, sure, but the events don’t seem to be matching up to the actual books that have been published. So what's the order of events here? MC: Good thing I didn't say "Countdown #42 was before “The Lightning Saga"...honestly the whole universe is-- and has to be-- fluid... some things do happen off camera. And in the super-hero biz you sometimes end up getting carried. But, frankly, it looks to me like buddies trying to hustle to a small opening-- and Karate Kid is standing pretty firmly for the rest of the page. Not like he was on a stretcher suddenly! Newsarama Note: Not to nit pick Mike, specifically, but in discussing Countdown #43, he said “So it’s my vote that this happened before Wally was back,” speaking of the funeral, while All-Flash #1 showed that Bart died and Wally returned within the same hour. Likewise, the “carrying” of Karate Kid is a recreation of the scene from JLA #10, where Kid’s teammates were helping him to walk due to the injuries suffered when Wally came back – time, apparently is very fluid - the Karate Kid scene is happening at one time, the Piper/Trickster at another (stemming out of them attending Bart's funeral) at another, and the Amazons' activities at a third. 
NRAMA: Did people every get this anal in the days of the weekly Superman run? MC: Yup... but we only crossed-over with ourselves-- 4 titles a month is a lot different than referencing up to 60 titles a month! And we make 'em gel as much as we can. There was less of an internet presence back then... and that has increased public anal-ysis! NRAMA: Thank you Newsarama again? MC: Yes, thank you Newsarama and friends. NRAMA: Karate Kid's mission - you've hinted that his storyline touches upon the Great Disaster - is his mission to prevent that, or is it specific to his incarnation of the Legion, and perhaps their survival? MC: His message is to avoid the Great Disaster-- more importantly not to be a great disaster himself! NRAMA: That should do it for you this week Mike…we’re heading over to Adam now – any words for him? MC: Good luck! NRAMA: You all set Adam? AB: (reading) Yikes. NRAMA: Okay – first up, Jimmy. Take us inside his head here. He's on the "frontline" so to speak, given nearly as much access to the world of superheroes as anyone in the DCU, and as it's been drilled into readers for over a year - heroing in the DCU has a price - it's dangerous, and it puts everyine you know and love at risk. Didn't Jimmy get the memo? Why would he want to do this? AB: Jimmy's definitely not doing this for kicks and grins. He's been around a lot of superheroes and a lot of major events and, as much as he's a journalist, he idolizes Superman and has wished he could help many times(and there have been times when he has helped, and it's been invaluable). I think it's pretty natural that he might think his proximity to super-events over the years has been more than just coincidence, that he's had a destiny to participate on an important level, and that this might be his opportunity. Jimmy may not have always been a superhero, but you can't deny he has a heroic streak, and now he's seeing his chance to help a lot of other people. Why would he want to do this? It's his nature. NRAMA: Okay – the shrinky dink team - are we seriously going to call the Monitor "Bob?" Really? Seriously? AB: Yup. It's the Monitor's own fault -- Donna and Jason gave him a chance to tell them his name, and he passed with some long-winded Monitorese, so he gets what he deserves. Personally, I think he's lucky. Given that Jason's the one that named him, Bob could've been saddled with Elvis or Shecky. Or Hillary. NRAMA: As a nod to Sir Edmund Hillary, of course? AB: Of course. NRAMA: Speaking of him, Jason seems a lot "lighter" this issue...is this his "vacation personality" coming out, or is he finally settling in to his role? Was he difficult to get a hold of from your perspective? For the longest time, his only character trait seemed to be that he was angry… AB: Maybe he's feeling a little better now that he has some kind of grip on a mission to carry out...and because he's hanging out with Donna. …he said cryptically. NRAMA: So – your take on where the Jason/Donna/Bob team winds up? AB: Mike's answered this one pretty well up above, so I'm gonna defer to him here. Actually, I defer to Mike almost everywhere. NRAMA: Harley's actions at the wommen’s shelter where she wanted to take on – and take down the crowd. She was a touch nutty, and aggressive, which is a touch of a change for her. What's got her so torqued? AB: Well, this is Harley, keep in mind, and just because she says (in a previous issue) she's more psychologically stable doesn't mean she actually is. "Nutty" pretty much defines Harley over the years, so it's not out of character for her in the larger picture to go a little bonkers at slight provocation. And she'd probably beat me up for calling this "slight provocation." One thing that's true about her here is that she's involved with something she really believes in with the Athenian Women's Shelters, and for a mob to call them murderers when she hasn't seen that to be remotely what these women do would absolutely set her off. NRAMA: Speaking of Harley, what's it like writing her with Paul looking over your shoulder? AB: Enormously comforting. No one knows the character better than Paul, so it's great to know that if I get a nuance there wrong, he's there to back me up and bring the character back on line. NRAMA: Wrapping up then - what issue are you back on with, and who can you tease that's in it? AB: I gotta be cryptic again here, as I don't want to give too much away, but I'm back with 37, and it's an enormously fun issue that gives readers a tour of one of the more interesting locations in the DCU, and finds our Rogue boys in their tightest spot yet. 
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07-20-2007, 06:06 PM
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#2 |
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Mary Marvel not in a slutty pose. Wow.
And first post. It's my first time, too. |
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07-20-2007, 06:06 PM
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#3 |
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hahaha pwnt.
I enjoyed the writer pointing out the myriad of little inconsistencies . Mike Carlin should just fess up and admit that there are some errors, sheesh. Last edited by shrike : 07-20-2007 at 06:08 PM. |
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07-20-2007, 06:07 PM
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#4 |
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Whoa are those Parademons in that last panel? Are we getting back to Apokilips? The MAry/ Zatana stuff looks pretty good too
EDIT: wouldja beleive I just noticed it says APOKIPS on one of the pages and I misse it? |
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07-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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#5 |
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"Contentious?"
Seemed pretty tame to me. |
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07-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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#6 |
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Is this the first issue with Keith Giffen breakdowns? About time!! Maybe this will the art more consistent.
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07-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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#7 |
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You know, if making a book like this flow correctly for DC is too hard, perhaps they should re-think it, nstead of the constant 'Nothing to see here"
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07-20-2007, 06:10 PM
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#8 | |
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Too true. It's nothing to be ashamed of since Countdown isn't a weekly series in actual time I don't think. |
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07-20-2007, 06:16 PM
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#9 |
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Going going gon..
So, I can't continue to throw good money after bad. I've been a DC zombie for years, and frankly really liked what they've attempted to do over the past few years, but this series is going nowhere slow or fast. I think I finally realized they're not as interested in telling a story as they are telling the inbetween stories of what happened in other books. Even Superman/Batman this week had what seemed to be a huge tie-in, but if a tree falls in a book fewer and fewer people are reading...
Oh and by the way, I've also got to call out Carlin and team because I called out the Marvel guys for the same thing about Civil War. Saying the reader is wrong and just doesn't get it when they're looking for internal logic to the story they're reading, is pretty insulting and unwarranted. I mean, the questions they, and frankly I have about this series are from a place of wanting to enjoy the book but being stymied by choices made within the book are difficult. Every week has less valuable content lately. Still, I guess if this is a weekly travelogue to other books, that's really not my thing, and I'll avoid this weekly secret files and origins style framing sequence from now on...or at least don't charge full price. I'm probably exaggerating, but somebody wake me when something of importance happens in this series. I really had high hopes for this series. |
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07-20-2007, 06:18 PM
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#10 |
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Awwww yeah, some Darkseid action finally!!!!
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07-20-2007, 06:19 PM
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07-20-2007, 06:23 PM
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#12 | |
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More Communication Needed. That's about my only complaint. Mike's a great guy, but "C'mon, lighten up, people" is gonna get old fast. |
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07-20-2007, 06:23 PM
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#13 | ||
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I vote just sit and relax. It is not like they had Superman being from Mars. Quote:
Then you should have just moved on.  Love themor hate them it seems one of the biggest problem 52 and Counddown have is the they come out weekly; therefore, you have new rips every wedensday like clockwork not the 4 -6 week ones that are the norm. The constant what came before what crap is getting annoying. |
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07-20-2007, 06:23 PM
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#14 | |
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Or (and I think this is the more appropriate question), if the editors can't keep the flow of events straight, how the hell are readers supposed to? I was amused to see Carlin bitching about how hard it is to coordinate 60 issues per month crossing over when there's a simple solution to that: don't tie together 60 issues every month. |
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07-20-2007, 06:25 PM
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They got it right in the previous panel... |
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07-20-2007, 06:25 PM
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Maybe not, but I was under the impression that Countdown was supposed to keep current with the events happening in the DCU each week, not fit before some and after others simultaneously. |
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07-20-2007, 06:26 PM
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Now, that's just crazy talk...this is what they HAVE to do!  |
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07-20-2007, 06:29 PM
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#18 | |
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Reboot
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I have to agree here, not only does it sound dumb for one of the most powerful beings ever to be named Bob, it is completely unoriginal. Bob is Guardian from Reboot, a TV series that Didio worked on. I guess they may be paying homage, but they're playing it off as original. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ReBoot_characters |
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07-20-2007, 06:30 PM
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#19 | |
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Jesus, Mary really is changing. She contemplated dissapearing some jerkoff just because he was heckling Zatanna.
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Interesting. I thought Countdown would cover an entire year in the DCU. Not neccesarily in real time, but by the time CD ended, a year in the DCU would pass. |
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07-20-2007, 06:32 PM
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#20 | |
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I was wondering about that. But wasn't there some other comics character of awesome power that was renamed Bob for the sake of the story? Seriously, I thought I remembered that when I read it, but maybe it was something else. Lucidity isn't always my friend. |
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07-20-2007, 06:34 PM
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#21 | ||
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First off, thanks for grilling the interviewees this week! This is not supposed to be Barbara Walters, so it was great to see you asking the tough questions. A lot fans have had a lot of complaints about the series, and was great to have an interviewer give them a voice. So often, creators brush off criticism as "We seel X many copies, so clearly the online complaitns are fringe losers in their mother's basements." It was nice to read an interview, especially with this series, that really held the creators accountable.
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Did DC ever think that the problem with this may not be footnotes, but may be that this series doesn't actually contain most of the actual story it claims to tell? Quote:
Also, if you claim to be the backbone of the DC Universe and use that as an excuse for not telling a self-contained story in 52 issues, than at least be a backbone that isn't broken, with all of these timelines that don't match up. |
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07-20-2007, 06:35 PM
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#22 |
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Gots to agree with Matt - too many inconsistant variables to truly justify with 'fluid' continuity. Hell - the thing I've grown to like about DC and Marvel has been a more tightly shared universe - but this pushes acceptance too much when the errors are too broad.
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07-20-2007, 06:36 PM
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#23 | |
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Well, yeah. I mean, after all, isn't this "because you demanded it?" I gotta find whoever the hell this "you" fella is and kick his ass, because he's been demanding some downright crappy comics for decades now...  |
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07-20-2007, 06:36 PM
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By the way, I read through all those "four Superman titles a month" a couple of years ago and never saw any continuity glitches as bad as the ones COUNTDOWN is putting out regularly. Let me guess the reason for that success...one editor over all four books, doing his job well? (Similarly, a while back I read all my Spider-Man comics from the days of ASM #238 through ASM #350, including SSM #85 through #200-plus and WEB #1 through #72. Number of irreconcilable continuity errors? ONE...and that was when ASM went biweekly for the "Assassin Nation" arc.) What COUNTDOWN needs is one "editor uber alles" who's job is to watch continuity among COUNTDOWN and the various other titles into which COUNTDOWN weaves. And if they've already got one, then replace him with somebody who can actually do the job...and do it well. |
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07-20-2007, 06:38 PM
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#25 | |
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*golf clap* Well said. |
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