TALKING ZUDA WITH PAUL LEVITZ

[MattBrady]

by Matt Brady

We brought you word late last night about DC Comics upcoming new imprint, Zudacomics, which will be the publisher’s first “digital imprint – a collection of webcomics provided by and voted on by the online community.

Ron Perazza, DC Comics Director of Creative Services and DC Comics SVP-Creative Director, Richard Bruning explained the basics of the idea and the site earlier, and now, we spoke about the concept and the imprint with DC’s President and Publisher, Paul Levitz.

Newsarama: Paul, we’ve spoken with Ron and Richard about Zuda, but let’s start with something they’ve already touched upon, from your point of view – why Zuda, and why now? What is it about the landscape in comics now that makes a web-based imprint make sense for DC?

Paul Levitz: It seems to me that what’s going on in webcomics is that there’s been this wonderful upwelling of creative talent over the last few years. There’s a bunch of different talent doing different things than existed previously, and in some instances are building their own, in my metaphor, stage to perform on, and in some cases, that’s really hard for them to build. You do have guys like Fred Gallagher or Scott Kurtz that are just terrifically competent at building the business and technological means around that to do something that works not only creatively, but profitably for them. But most creative people don’t have that wide range of comforts, so there’s an opportunity for a publisher to come in, and build a stage to connect creators with an audience. That’s what we do for a living.

There seem to be a bunch of creators out there who want to create, and a sizable audience who want to see some of their creations, so we should be able to figure out how to do our part of the job.

NRAMA: As I mentioned with Ron and Richard, webcomics, not to put too sharp of a point on it, aren’t anything new in the industry…

PL: How old are they in your view?

NRAMA: I think you could argue that what exists today is built upon the foundations that were laid down pre-internet crash, so in a serious, ongoing form, about ten years; but then again, the internet time-scale is faster than that of print. By now, you’ve got veterans and the “old men” of webcomics that are looked at like print comics pros look at the Golden Age creators of print. So…I’d put it on a good ten years of being an actual, established “thing,” give or take a year or two…so why now?

PL: For DC, there needed to be a critical mass. Should we have done this a year earlier? Three years earlier? Maybe. I think there is certainly not a well-developed stage or platform for the typical creator to perform on, and I don’t think there should be one platform. I don’t think we’ll supply the only one out there. The fact that there are guys that have succeeded with this is terrific, because it demonstrates that the model can work.

I certainly think that DC’s not always the first to move in the industry. We like to move when there’s a clear opportunity, and when we’re convinced we’re bringing something to the table.

NRAMA: Let’s talk about some of the elements. As has been explained, there will be an element of popular vote with Zuda, that is, the audience/community will have the chance to vote on a diverse field of comics to select which one will make the cut. Looking at this as an imprint, would you say it’s going to be more like Vertigo, Johnny DC, the DCU…?

PL: Hopefully it will be Zuda.

NRAMA: Right, but in saying that – if you’re attracting comics and the community tells you that they want to see things akin to say, Shooting War which has sex and violence in it, is DC okay with letting it go in that direction?

PL: It will develop its own style and taste around what the readers want. I think you’re approaching it narrowly. Had you had a conversation about what is Vertigo when we launched Vertigo, and you described Pride of Baghdad or American Splendor, none of us would have put that within the scope of what Vertigo would grow to be. I think you start a creative process like this by combining audience and talent pools, and you see what brews out of it. This isn’t an editorially driven line – we’re not sitting here with a 12 page proposal from a graying editor saying, “These are the eight things I want to buy, these are the twelve creators I want to work with.” This is starting at the opposite end.

NRAMA: Seeing what comes in from the creative community?

PL: Right. The energy is out there that we can provide an opportunity for.

NRAMA: Then, as an imprint, there are no boundaries on Zuda at all in terms of G to R-rated material, it’s just a wait and see as to what it becomes?

PL: We’ll see how it evolves. I think we’ll launch with material that will not be rated R, for example, because we have to evolve the technology to deal with it, and we also have to see what the audience wants, but there may be two separate sections on it for mature rated content and not mature-rated content, or they may brand separately, or there may not be enough stuff in a given category to look at. I don’t think we know the answer to that yet.

NRAMA: Throughout your time at DC, you’ve always stressed a good, equitable, and fair relationship with creators. Something like Zuda strikes me as something that could call for some redefinition of those relationships or how DC works with creators in that the potential audience size for Zuda is vast. A comic at Zuda that sees 10 million unique views a month would immediately – possibly within a month – be the most widely-read property that DC is currently publishing…

PL: I wrote, at the height of my freelance career, the most widely-read thing DC was doing – the Superman newspaper strip. It had a different economic model than the comics, because the talent participated on a different basis. It didn’t mean that I necessarily made more money on it – I did at some points, but at other points, the strip was still the most widely read thing we produced, but it wasn’t the best-paying assignment in the house. It all has to work together. It would be great it Zuda opens up different models for economic success.

NRAMA: Hand in hand with the creative aspect of Zuda is the social aspect, both in voting, and also as a community. Part of the plan from the start?

PL: Well, I can’t speak directly to it, because Zuda wasn’t “my plan” from the beginning. This is an evolution from a bunch of people sitting around and saying, “There’s something going on, how do we fit with it?” There was no Moses comes down with the tablets moment in all of this. A lot of this started in discussions where we were talking about what’s going on on the web. I think community is very clearly one of the interesting things going on on the web. User-generated content is clearly one of the hallmarks of what the wise people are calling Internet 2.0 and is tied up in the emerging Internet 3.0 that they keep looking towards.

We’re trying to understand all of that and build something that fits well with the opportunity.

NRAMA: A large push towards finding creators is going to be starting at San Diego this year. You’re at the DC booth for a lot of the convention, you’re pretty easy to spot – if a creator would come up to you and say they’re thinking of submitting to Zuda, but they’re unsure about the benefits – what would you tell them?

PL: I think the Zuda model works if the kind of story you want to tell is best told on the web, if it can connect to the audience best in that form, rather than in any of the regular print formats. And if you think it makes more sense to work with a publisher partner than to try and build the thing in your basement. I think those are really the tests – it starts with what serves the story. If you’re not creating a story that’s best told in weekly or daily short bursts or installments, Zuda as its built now is probably not the right place to start. We may be able to offer a different way of doing it in Zuda 2.0, and do something like let you put up a 20 page comic book all at once, but that’s not how the model’s built to start with. The most distinct things that are going on in webcomics are the things that are driven more by the history of the newspaper strip than the history of the comic book.

When someone comes to me with the broader question of, “Where should I take my creative work to sell?” I always start with telling them to look at the places where you think it fits. Who’s the editor who is buying and publishing material that you think your material would stand proudly with?

For Zuda, that’s a question of form, and for the first six months to a year, a question of what the audience connects to. Will the audience have very eclectic tastes over a wide range of material? That would be cool. Will the audience narrow in and say specifically that they want to see a certain type of comic on Zuda? That will be advice to the next group of creators as well.

NRAMA: So one of the main components is that this is a different form of storytelling – this isn’t a call for everyone’s old pitch for a six-issue miniseries that you dreamt of seeing published through Vertigo?

PL: Right. The odds are that if it’s something that would be a good DCU or Vertigo title, it won’t work on Zuda, because you won’t be able to tell the story that way.

NRAMA: One question that’s already being asked with DC starting up and investing heavily in Zuda – is this a precursor or harbinger of DC moving some of its traditional comics online?

PL: I haven’t seen a lot of evidence yet that people want to read 20 pages of a comic book on their computer screen, so I don’t think the form of what we mostly do has yet found a home there. I think we’ve seen a lot of evidence that people like to get their daily Doonesbury or their PvP in this form. This provides us the opportunity to do something different in comics.

I don’t know what this business looks like 20 years from now. I do know that people will be telling stories using words and pictures long after my time. I don’t know how those will be delivered. I hope and believe that print will be a part of that for a very, very long time, and certainly print is a very important part of Zuda, because that’s the key way it gets monetized for both the creator and the publisher. We’ve seen with things like Megatokyo, that can be a very effective model.

NRAMA: If we’re talking about monetizing and moving projects that start out at Zuda into print, how does that jibe with what we were discussing earlier, that is, Zuda’s a good home for your project of you can’t see it working as a traditional comic?

PL: But you’ve got PvP and Penny Arcade collections coming out, or going back further, the newspaper strip run of Garfield, which at different points was something like eight of the top ten best selling mass market trade paperbacks. That was a case where it was working very well in two different forms. For us, MAD Magazine used to do a phenomenal trade paperback business, and still does okay in collections.

Will there be some material developed for Zuda that doesn’t make sense put together as a book? Possibly. But I think most of what we’re looking at will have applicability both ways.

It’s an interesting ride – we’ll see what this ends up looking like.

[Snowspinner]

I would have thought that rampant comics piracy would be a good sign that people want to read all 20 pages of a comic online.

[Ben543250]

Originally Posted by Snowspinner

I would have thought that rampant comics piracy would be a good sign that people want to read all 20 pages of a comic online.

I think it's a sign that people are willing to read 20 pages of a comic online if it's free.

[JimShelley]

PL: I haven’t seen a lot of evidence yet that people want to read 20 pages of a comic book on their computer screen, so I don’t think the form of what we mostly do has yet found a home there.

In January 2007, almost 100,000 people downloaded Sin City to read on their computer.

About 60,000 downloaded Lost Girls.

I think Paul's quote applies better to some of DC's lesser selling comics, like Aquaman or Firestorm.

[BornToRun]

Originally Posted by Ben543250

I think it's a sign that people are willing to read 20 pages of a comic online if it's free.

We have a winner, Alex.

[JimShelley]

Originally Posted by Ben543250

I think it's a sign that people are willing to read 20 pages of a comic online if it's free.

I think you mean *Priced Appropriately.*

There are already several companies doing well with the digital comic format:

http://www.eyemelt.com

http://www.pullboxonline.com

http://www.wowio.com

Though Wowio content is free (they make their money off of ads.)

[alschroeder]

Excellent! Having had a webcomic for five years, I'll be watching this VERY closely...and hopefully submitting something.---Al

[Zenstrive]

Like my comments for the previous interview, why won't DC follow the way of Platinum Studios' DrunkDuck ?

[gwangung]

Originally Posted by CapVsBats

I think you mean *Priced Appropriately.*

There are already several companies doing well with the digital comic format:

http://www.eyemelt.com

http://www.pullboxonline.com

http://www.wowio.com

Though Wowio content is free (they make their money off of ads.)

This is called...Figuring Out a Business Model That Works For You. Note: what works for a smaller, sole proprietorship may not be what works for a larger corporation.

[Scoop Riches]

I like this idea alot, and no, I don't think this is evil DC trying to steal people's ideas.

btw, I would LOVE the return of a Superman newspaper strip, as long as it was good. The Batman one in the nineties started out good, then really sucked.

[JLAJRC]

Originally Posted by CapVsBats

In January 2007, almost 100,000 people downloaded Sin City to read on their computer.

About 60,000 downloaded Lost Girls.

I think Paul's quote applies better to some of DC's lesser selling comics, like Aquaman or Firestorm.

I agree with you here. I'd rather DC start doing that, or at least maybe start putting their lower-selling titles (Atom, Checkmate, Shadowpact, Blue Beetle) online to attract more people. Heck, maybe they could launch a bunch of stories using their established characters, then we pick which one becomes an ongoing.

Anyway, I do like the Retrojunk.com approach to this where anyone can create, but readers pick which ones stay and which ones gets tossed off the site. Most people THINK they can write/draw/be creative, but it's just the same stuff under a different name.

[Skinshark]

Well I think this is a great cheaper alternative to try new ideas before considering print.

Like every other form of entertainment it's interesting to see how people are reassessing the internet's true possibilities.

=s=

[Scavenger]

I can't help but notice how Scott Kurtz's name keeps getting bandied about......

[gwangung]

Originally Posted by JLAJRC

I agree with you here. I'd rather DC start doing that, or at least maybe start putting their lower-selling titles (Atom, Checkmate, Shadowpact, Blue Beetle) online to attract more people. Heck, maybe they could launch a bunch of stories using their established characters, then we pick which one becomes an ongoing.

Hey, I LIKE that idea!

Think different. Think outside the box. Whatever you want to call it, but with new media, you can and MUST try different ways to sell your product.

[investcomics]

"downloading comics" just doesn't do it for me personally. It takes away every single thing that is associated with going into a comic shop. The "smell" of the new books, your friends you speak to their, the excitement of "holding" that comic in your hands. Nothing beats that. This whole thing of downloading is more of a reason the youth is getting larger and lazier. It's a bad idea, that's it. PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS MY OPINION, AMERICA HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't get all crazy over my post. thanks.

[marksmart]

Originally Posted by investcomics

"downloading comics" just doesn't do it for me personally. It takes away every single thing that is associated with going into a comic shop. The "smell" of the new books, your friends you speak to their, the excitement of "holding" that comic in your hands. Nothing beats that. This whole thing of downloading is more of a reason the youth is getting larger and lazier. It's a bad idea, that's it. PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS MY OPINION, AMERICA HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't get all crazy over my post. thanks.

I agree, but for slightly different reasons.Online comics are convenient,but I look forward to the weekly trip to my LCS.And I spend enough time at work staring at a computer screen without doing it even more at home when all I really want to do is put my feet up and enjoy a few good comics.

[Azor]

"downloading comics" just doesn't do it for me personally. It takes away every single thing that is associated with going into a comic shop. The "smell" of the new books, your friends you speak to their, the excitement of "holding" that comic in your hands. Nothing beats that. This whole thing of downloading is more of a reason the youth is getting larger and lazier. It's a bad idea, that's it. PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS MY OPINION, AMERICA HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't get all crazy over my post. thanks.

Why does it have to be an either/or? I would relish the opportunity to download comics for say, a quarter an issue. I'd continue to purchase as many physical comics as I do now, but I'd download a whole heck of a lot.

[JoeZhang]

Originally Posted by investcomics

"downloading comics" just doesn't do it for me personally. It takes away every single thing that is associated with going into a comic shop. The "smell" of the new books, your friends you speak to their, the excitement of "holding" that comic in your hands. Nothing beats that. This whole thing of downloading is more of a reason the youth is getting larger and lazier. It's a bad idea, that's it. PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS MY OPINION, AMERICA HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't get all crazy over my post. thanks.

I haven't been in a comic shop in five (?? maybe more) years - I buy all my trades off the net or in bookshops - so none of that is applicable to me or (I guess) other 30 somethings who are time poor but cash rich.

[duhhh123]

What does "zuda" mean?

[Charlie Hustle]

Originally Posted by investcomics

"downloading comics" just doesn't do it for me personally. It takes away every single thing that is associated with going into a comic shop. The "smell" of the new books, your friends you speak to their, the excitement of "holding" that comic in your hands. Nothing beats that. This whole thing of downloading is more of a reason the youth is getting larger and lazier. It's a bad idea, that's it. PLEASE REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS MY OPINION, AMERICA HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't get all crazy over my post. thanks.

Lol comic stores were never exactly a source of weight loss for people.

[Kevin Street]

Originally Posted by duhhh123

What does "zuda" mean?

According to Google, some people use Zuda as a name. But it's probably just a friendly sounding word that has few prior associations attached to it.

I really like this idea. As the interviewer (Matt Brady?) pointed out, there's lots of details that still need to be defined. But once Zudacomics gets going, I bet the nature of the place will become clear. Right now it's just a concept, and anything could be true.

It would suck if Zudacomics had heavy editoral restrictions, but they'll probably need some standards - to keep the furry porn and thinly disguised Harry Potter slash fics out, if nothing else.

[investcomics]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hustle

Lol comic stores were never exactly a source of weight loss for people.

No, but you'd have to "walk" to one, usually.

[Zhen Dil Oloth]

Originally Posted by CapVsBats

I think you mean *Priced Appropriately.*

There are already several companies doing well with the digital comic format:

http://www.eyemelt.com

http://www.pullboxonline.com

http://www.wowio.com

Though Wowio content is free (they make their money off of ads.)

In your list of companies doing the digital format, you forgot to mention one...

http://flashbackuniverse.com/

[Zam]

Well, they'll be quite disappointed once they discover just how small the market is for self-indulgent garbage about transgendered Furries and stolen Mega Man sprites.

[hebitudinous]

So good to see new people like Zam join, perhaps for the sole purpose of adding something meaningful to the conversation.

It will be interesting to see what so-called IP is made available...f'r example, Grant Morrison made an impact by doing something rather interesting with an obscure C-list hero named Buddy Baker, er, Animal Man.

There's certainly a lot of fan fiction out there and new approaches to writing. In fact, now that we all know the mystery of the 52, one might argue that the multiverse needed to be restored in order to legitimize new stories told by way of Zuda.

After all, there are already enough fanboy arguments over which Superman stories are in/out of continuity...