SPOILER SPORT: MELTZER & JOHNS ON THE LIGHTNING SAGA'S END

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

When fans first heard that the newly re-launched Justice League of America and Justice Society of America comics were going to cross over in a story entitled “The Lightning Saga,” it was safe to assume the conclusion would be a doozy.

And now that the issue's out, readers have discovered its ending is not only a surprise, but the fact that it ties together with other elements in the DCU, all timed for release on the same week, makes it a double-whammy.

As their story is both making waves and inspiring questions, Geoff Johns and Brad Meltzer talked to Newsarama about the crossover's conclusion, how they coordinated it with other comics, and how some of those "Easter eggs" we saw hinted at things coming up in the DCU.

And since we're talking about conclusions here, SPOILER WARNING for “The Lightning Saga” and Flash #13!

Newsarama: With all the coordination between this storyline's ending and other comics like The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive and Countdown, there must have been a lot of planning. Has this ending been in the works for a long time?

Brad Meltzer: To give you a sense of timeline, Geoff and I pitched all of “The Lightning Saga” well before either of us ever knew that Bart was being killed. We always wanted the crossover to have a big ending, and like the original Seven Soldiers story we were playing with (where 7 characters return), we wanted the crossover to end in life, by bringing another Flash back. Then when we found out that Bart was going to die (and let me be clear, I love Bart), it was just unreal timing.

Geoff Johns: I think half of the crossover was already written before we found out what they were doing with Bart. So the answer is yes and no.

NRAMA: But once you brought all the elements together, was coordinating this with the timing of other comics a nightmare? Or an experiment in "universe cohesiveness" that you think worked well?

BM: I'm still amazed how DC made all the pieces fit. Again, our story was done by the time Countdown was even being talked about, so the fact they were able to add Karate Kid and Dr. Impossible to Countdown – not to mention how Marc Guggenheim was such a prince in working around our plans in Flash – that was the real teamwork. We of course then built in some space to match those stories (Karate Kid staying, having Wally hesitate as if he knows something bad has happened upon his return, plus the hints we put in there for Geoff’s Action story with the Legion).

NRAMA: Although we now know Wally is the 11th Justice League team member that you've been hinting at all along, fans — and even Batman and Brainy in the issue — were speculating that this would be the return of Barry Allen. Was Wally always the planned return?

BM: Interesting. Who says the story’s done?

GJ: I also think anytime there’s anything going on with the Flash that’s a mystery, people jump to the Barry card. Remember the “Dark” Flash?

NRAMA: Why do you think the DCU needs "a" Flash back now? And why Wally in particular?

BM: It’s so easy to make annoyingly cryptic remarks, as well as ones that try to overintellectualize why Wally and Barry and Bart should all be chosen ones — but the truth is, I just like the character.

GJ: There were a lot of questions open about Wally and his family and people wanted to know the story — so did I! I’m really excited about Mark’s upcoming run on The Flash. Mark’s someone who has been hugely influential on me, even now more so than before I got in the business, and his Flash run is my favorite comic run of all time.

NRAMA: Yeah, but Geoff... be honest. You missed Wally, didn't you?

GJ: Hell, yes. I miss writing Wally, Linda and the Rogues a lot. I miss Bart as Kid Flash too. (And just to add my two cents when no one’s asking: the Rogues don’t do drugs. That’s Captain Cold’s #2 rule.)

NRAMA: Something tells me those Rogues will soon regret a lot of what they did. OK, so we know Wally came back to the regular DCU, but someone else is on that lightning rod Brainy's got at the end, right? What did that last panel mean? Will we find out soon?

BM: Man, that would be a really good excuse for another crossover.

NRAMA: Ah... the story continues. Let's talk Legion of Super-Heroes. Wally wasn't the only one who came "back." When you were looking at how this story would end, how did you pick which Legion characters would stay behind?

GJ: I’d always planned on using Starman in Justice Society of America since my early discussions with Alex Ross about the book. Originally, we weren’t going to delve into Starman’s backstory as quickly, but since the crossover was happening earlier on and the original Legion was involved, we ended up focusing on him quite a bit more — which incidentally is fine with me. Thom’s become one of my favorite JSoA members in record time. And for that reason, I was always intent on keeping Starman in the Justice Society — and we needed him for our second major story arc "Thy Kingdom Come" (the prologue to that begins with #9). So Starman was always going to stay.

BM: I actually had planned to have Karate Kid return. But then they liked the idea of him being here as they were building Countdown, so he remained.

NRAMA: So if Geoff has always planned on using Starman, was that the reason for the Legion tie-in?

BM: The interesting part here is, I think I pitched Geoff the Legion part before I even knew that Starman was on JSA. His first reaction was, “oh, that’ll be perfect with Starman…” For awhile, we even plotted out that each Legion member would be “hidden” as a new character in seven different One Year Later books. So Dawnstar would be some character with wings in Teen Titans, and etc, etc. And that seemed cool. For a day. But in the end, it just seemed overly coincidental that every team had a new Legion-ish member and nobody noticed.

NRAMA: Now that we have a few members staying behind here in the current DCU, will we see the Legion again anytime soon?

GJ: Well, as I said earlier, Starman is a member of the Justice Society for the foreseeable future. And they’re moving Karate Kid into Countdown. But the Legion of Super-Heroes, the team that Superman spent time with when he was a teenager, have retreated back to the 31st century. What happened to them? Why are they reluctant to tell Superman? Why won’t they ask Superman for help? These are all questions that’ll be answered in "Superman and The Legion of Super-Heroes," which is Gary Frank’s first arc in Action Comics, beginning with issue #858.

We’ll find out what’s happened to the Legion since the first Crisis hit and why we haven’t seen them since then – but more importantly, it’s a story about how a man helps his childhood friends and how vital Superman and the Legion are to the future.

NRAMA: You dropped a hint about that Action storyline when you had the Legion members talking about "not telling Superman" about their future. Were there a lot of Easter eggs like that in this storyline? Things that will be followed up on later, in other stories?

BM: As with every issue we’ve done so far, there’re nuggets and hints for the future.

GJ: There are a lot of seemingly throwaway lines that reveal a lot about the future of Justice Society of America and the Legion. A lot of them will be near impossible to decipher, but I’m sure someone out there has.

NRAMA: One line in particular indicated that Red Tornado knows something we don't about Cyclone's powers, right? Is it just one of those happy accidents of comic books that you guys both put these connected characters on your teams so they could meet like this, or was it something you'd planned?

BM: If you only knew how pathetically similar our brains worked. I don’t think I knew who Cyclone was when I wrote the first two drafts of the crossover. She wasn’t invented yet. And the moment Geoff told me about her, we said, “Oh, if she’s with Red Tornado…”

GJ: The comment in Justice Society of America #6 is something I’d always planned, but during that moment a hint of it came out. Red Tornado and Cyclone actually are connected in a very bizarre way. I’m looking forward to a future issue with those two and Professor T.O. Morrow.

NRAMA: OK, speaking of connected characters... it's time to be blunt: Power Girl and Hawkman? Wouldn't that match-up involve a lot of broken bones?

BM: Um, your sex is way better than mine.

GJ: Hawkman isn’t the only one that might have interest in Power Girl.

NRAMA: What was Karate Kid saying in Japanese as he braced himself for the lightning?

BM: Fear makes the wolf bigger than he is.

NRAMA: Is there anything else you guys wanted to share about the crossover? Anything that surprised you about how the readers reacted or how it came together?

BM: The readers were amazing with this one. When the first issue of the crossover hit, I saw dozens of posts with people explaining who certain Legionaires were, how their histories worked, and of course, how to speak Interlac. That was what I loved when I was growing up—that instant (and best) sense of community that the comic world could bring.

Plus, a huge thanks to all our artists (Ed Benes, Shane Davis, Dale Eaglesham, Phil Jimenez, Fernando Pasarin, Alex Ross, and Michael Turner). Because of the crossovers with Flash and Countdown, this was a story that couldn’t be late, and every artist really killed themselves to draw all those characters on every page.

GJ: I also have to add from Dale and myself — thanks to everyone for checking out Justice Society of America. The response to the book has been unbelievable, and you can bet that we are working our asses off to make this the best we can make it. Our goal is to outsell Justice League of America, or at least give it a real run for its money.

NRAMA: What's coming up next in Justice League and Justice Society?

BM: I have two issues left with the League. After starting with a character-driven story, then going to a massive crossover, Issue #11 is self-contained, tiny, and easily the most experimental thing we’ve done so far. Twenty-two pages of Red Arrow and another Leaguer trapped underground, the ceiling closing down on them with each page, and Gene Ha drawing the hell out of every single panel. Then we have our big goodbye in issue #12, which is called “Monitor Duty.” The one thing every Leaguer has in common. It really is close to what we started in issue zero.

GJ: The next issue of Justice Society of America, #7, focuses on the aftermath of our first arc, specifically Nathan Heywood – Citizen Steel. Following that, issue #8 explores the future of Liberty Belle, Hourman and Damage as the Justice Society encounters Zoom, the Reverse-Flash – the man who is responsible for Damage’s broken face. Then issue #9 is our prologue to "Thy Kingdom Come," which is our next major storyline.

NRAMA: Geoff, are you up for another JLA/JSA crossover someday soon? And Brad, would you recommend doing it to the next guy?

BM: In a heartbeat.

GJ: We have a lot of stories to tell in Justice Society of America, but I’d be up for another JLA/JSA crossover when the time is right, which is probably sooner than later.

[Catullus]

Another strong example, after "52", of how writers readily and effectively colloborate on stories at DC. When these things are done right, so that the events in each comic are independent from one another but relate enough to create a cumulative impact, it's a display of just how good comics could be. Thanks a lot, folks!

[worldsfinest]

Stop playing the Barry card and bring him back already. Nobody's getting any younger here.

This is huge, Huge Huge???????? Wally's back after a year. Another senseless death.

This is all you got now DC?

[ThatNickGuy]

I honestly didn't like this story all that much. There was a slow pace to it and nothing really all that notable happened outside of Wally's return. Not to mention that there was next to no fighting whatsoever (except for the illusioned fight with COMPUTO).

I was planning on dropping JLA after reading the first arc. Then I realized it immediately followed into the JSA crossover, so I gritted my teeth and kept going.

JSA, honestly? I love it, but the final issue of the first arc was disappointing. It was a threat that was built up and taken out a little too quickly. Especially for the fact it was Vandal Savage. I might continue to pick it up in trade form, but for now, it's off my list, as well.

I think the reason that I didn't like this crossover arc all that much is a few things:

1) Far too slow paced with little action sequences for something that felt it should have been more epic.
2) I've never held any interest in the Legion of Superheroes in any way, shape or form.
3) Much like both of the first arcs of both books, the ending felt very anti-climactic.

[newfoundma]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Brad Meltzer: To give you a sense of timeline, Geoff and I pitched all of “The Lightning Saga” well before either of us ever knew that Bart was being killed. We always wanted the crossover to have a big ending, and like the original Seven Soldiers story we were playing with (where 7 characters return), we wanted the crossover to end in life, by bringing another Flash back. Then when we found out that Bart was going to die (and let me be clear, I love Bart), it was just unreal timing.

Geoff Johns: I think half of the crossover was already written before we found out what they were doing with Bart. So the answer is yes and no.

So their original plan was to bring Wally back and have him co-exist with Bart? And if this story never happened (and they didn't bring up the idea of bringing back Wally), would part have still been killed?

PS- I love GJ bringing up the Rogues not doing drugs. They have certainly been acting much more like low-lifes than when they were had a code of honor in GJ and Waid's runs. Beating the Bart (who is barely a phsycial adult) even after they realized that he wasn't the Flash they thought he was?

[RockLeefan]

Wow, hats off to the folks at DC for getting all three titles out in the same week! In this day and age it's an impressive feat, glad to know a lot seems to have been learned from producing 52. I'm still bummed about Bart's death (hoping he comes back as kid flash somehow) but it's good to see Wally back too. I just hope there is going to be some payback for the Rogues. Serious payback.

[Eison]

Good interview Vaneta.

I think this huge crossover had a lot of ups and downs, but I really liked the finish.

[Kent Horton]

I'm definitely thinking that there's a Karate Kid project outside of Countdown (an ongoing or mini) in the works.

[BlueThunderArmy]

JSoA's been fantastic, JLoA picking up as well. Looking forward to more of the old-tyme Legion!

[MikeD]

So if the original Legion is back, which version of the team is the from the main DCU's future - this one or the one appearing in the Legion book?

Has it already been disclosed that one of these teams is from the multiverse?

[Kid Impulse]

I don't know if this has been mentioned on any other boards, but anyone else notice Starman say 'Kal-L' not 'Kal-El' that got me all excited, especially after the preview pages we've seen

[Kent Horton]

Originally Posted by MikeD

So if the original Legion is back, which version of the team is the from the main DCU's future - this one or the one appearing in the Legion book?

Has it already been disclosed that one of these teams is from the multiverse?

The Legion from "Supergirl and the" is the New Earth Legion. The original Legion is from Earth-2. At least that's what was said by DC at the beginning of Infinite Crisis.

[thefourthman]

Originally Posted by Kent Horton

The Legion from "Supergirl and the" is the New Earth Legion. The original Legion is from Earth-2. At least that's what was said by DC at the beginning of Infinite Crisis.

But that means that Superman on New Earth is really Earth-2 supes!

[God-Man]

GJ: Well, as I said earlier, Starman is a member of the Justice Society for the foreseeable future. And they’re moving Karate Kid into Countdown. But the Legion of Super-Heroes, the team that Superman spent time with when he was a teenager, have retreated back to the 31st century. What happened to them? Why are they reluctant to tell Superman? Why won’t they ask Superman for help? These are all questions that’ll be answered in "Superman and The Legion of Super-Heroes," which is Gary Frank’s first arc in Action Comics, beginning with issue #858.

Damnit, I hate that I have to wait until November for this arc.

[munsung02]

I liked it. I wonder if Karate Kid was referring to Barry Allen though, when he told Flash he wasn't the fastest person on earth (or was it himself cause he dodged the lightening?)

[Binker]

Umm, Wally didn't die. So why would that be considered a "senseless death"? Barry and Conner should be one thing: stay dead. Why? Their deaths were important in their stories, bringing them back would ruin it.

"Thy Kingdom Come", I can't wait to see that.

[nietoperz]

Dammit, this means I'm going to have to buy Action Comics!

Also - I don't think that's Barry or Bart that the Legionnaires have at all.

[achilles140]

Originally Posted by Sentry/Void

I don't know if this has been mentioned on any other boards, but anyone else notice Starman say 'Kal-L' not 'Kal-El' that got me all excited, especially after the preview pages we've seen

Oh, yes, believe me, it got noticed, along with the "worlds will die again" comment. Earth-2 and New Crisis and all that....

[Kent Horton]

Originally Posted by thefourthman

But that means that Superman on New Earth is really Earth-2 supes!

Not really, if the Legion has the ability to travel across dimensions as well as time. Though Starman did say Kal-L.

Originally Posted by Binker

Umm, Wally didn't die. So why would that be considered a "senseless death"? Barry and Conner should be one thing: stay dead. Why? Their deaths were important in their stories, bringing them back would ruin it.

"Thy Kingdom Come", I can't wait to see that.

No, Wally didn't die, but the lightning wasn't for him. He was a hitch hiker. The face in the lightning rod at the end was who the Legion was doing it all for.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by newfoundma

So their original plan was to bring Wally back and have him co-exist with Bart? And if this story never happened (and they didn't bring up the idea of bringing back Wally), would part have still been killed?

PS- I love GJ bringing up the Rogues not doing drugs. They have certainly been acting much more like low-lifes than when they were had a code of honor in GJ and Waid's runs. Beating the Bart (who is barely a phsycial adult) even after they realized that he wasn't the Flash they thought he was?

This I agree with.

The best part of them is that they're sort of like a union, down to an unspoken code of honor.
There was something very lovable about the Rogues, yet they were still dangerous.

[newfoundma]

Originally Posted by RockLeefan

Wow, hats off to the folks at DC for getting all three titles out in the same week! In this day and age it's an impressive feat, glad to know a lot seems to have been learned from producing 52.

I don't remember what happened this week in Countdown that tied into this story. All I remember is that Dream Girl and Karate Kid were the only Legionnares that had been found by the JLA?JSA so far, and so I was surprised at how behind the story in Countdown is. Also I remember Piper coming off as a half-decent person (for a Rogue) in Countdown, not like the kind of person who would help kick a young, powerless guy to death. This is the week I decided that I'm dropping Countdown by the way. I don't care for the Monitor story (and has it been addressed that the original Monitor died during the first Crisis and there didn't seem to be other Monitors from those Infinite Earths?), and it seems that more than half of the stories are related to it. Also, the fact that an issue will be about Black Canary's bachelloretty party and the news that Batwoman and Montoya will be added in later to the book, along with recent addition Holly Robinson and the surprise addition of Karate Kid makes me feel like the series is unfocussed and under-planned. Sorry for the digression, but I don't have any serious complaints about the Lightning Saga other than I don't understand why Karate Kid (who can dodge lightning) didn't attempt this alone to save everyone's lives and why he doesn't repeat it to bring back Max Mercury, Johnny Quick, and Barry Allen.

[durkadurka]

Ok, Wally's back. That's good.
But Bart's dead. That's bad.
So my question is: when is Tim Drake finally going to snap? That's two parents, one girlfriend, and two best friends down. I think Wonder Girl really should be watching her back.

[Truthseeker]

I was really pleased with the Flash portion of the story. I am really glad Wally is back and Bart had one of the best, most heroic deaths in a long while. I think people are being way to hard on it. I was really disapointed over all with the Lightnig Saga, they should have called it the Retcon saga but there were some great character moments and some really nice art.

[Kevin T. Brown]

Originally Posted by MikeD

So if the original Legion is back, which version of the team is the from the main DCU's future - this one or the one appearing in the Legion book?

Has it already been disclosed that one of these teams is from the multiverse?

Well, technically, they're all from the mulitverse.

Do you mean, which one is from Earth-1, Earth-2, New Earth, etc?

[Uchiha_Prodigy]

I nearly cried when I read JLA #10 last night. Im so friggin happy Wally's back. He's more interesting than Barry or Bart ever were.