Superhero Religious Views?

[LoganVH]

I've read mostly about Superman and Batman, and from what I have gathered, Superman is more of an agnostic than anything. He stopped going to church in his teens, but in the last few Action Comics it's revealed that he does respect religion.

Batman, I feel is a complete atheist.

Your thoughts/derivations?

[Bijan S]

I would assume most would believe in some higher being seeing as how they are exposed to magic pretty frequently.

[JohnLynch]

Originally Posted by LoganVH

I've read mostly about Superman and Batman, and from what I have gathered, Superman is more of an agnostic than anything. He stopped going to church in his teens, but in the last few Action Comics it's revealed that he does respect religion.

Batman, I feel is a complete atheist.

Your thoughts/derivations?

IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

[Inactiveman]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

I don't think you quite understand Christianity...

Aliens are quite compatible with Christianity; in fact I once read a Vatican scientist (yes the Vatican does have a scientific research dept.) discuss on the possibility of Jesus appearing to alien civilizations and whether or not the concept of sin would even apply to aliens.

[JohnLynch]

Originally Posted by Inactiveman

I don't think you quite understand Christianity...

Aliens are quite compatible with Christianity; in fact I once read a Vatican scientist (yes the Vatican does have a scientific research dept.) discuss on the possibility of Jesus appearing to alien civilizations and whether or not the concept of sin would even apply to aliens.

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

[MuteMath]

With the Spectre running around, Hal's interaction with it, Ollie's resurrection, and the existence of Zauriel, I'm sure a big chunk of the DCU's heroes (except for Mr. Terrific, of course) believe in some form of a deity along the lines of Christianity's god.

[Violator]

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/..._religion.html

Not that it's necessarily accurate, but it's interesting.

[Weiser_Cain]

I think writer should avoid the subject so as not to alienate the fans. Unless it an important part of the story, like hellblazer.

[Corr7]

i am betting Ollie believes in something, didn't he go to heaven in Quiver?

[Weiser_Cain]

You'd think comic heaven would give capes a free pass.

[Moonbeam]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

Your church takes the Jewish holy scriptures at face value? Wild. But hey - whatever floats your boat.

I tend to agree that Superman wouldn't be comfortable with your view of Christianity, but who knows what he might think of another view that incorporated Christ's teachings but saw the Jewish scriptures as moral myths, similar to modern liberal Judaism.

[Starlord]

great, three in the morning, wide awake, and now I want waffles.

[frd reborn]

Originally Posted by Starlord

great, three in the morning, wide awake, and now I want waffles.

holy waffles?

[JohnLynch]

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Your church takes the Jewish holy scriptures at face value? Wild. But hey - whatever floats your boat.

Well, as I suspect you already realize, I'm not a Christian. I have, however, investigated christianity and I've found myself unwiling to consider a Christian religion as having any credibility that doesn't take some portions of the bible as literal (such as the length of time the Earth was created along with the fact only man has a soul), which has led me to be unable to believe in Christianity. Although I do still certainly respect anyone's right to believe whatever they want (whether its a non-literal christianity, fundamental christianity, buddhism, islam, wicca, etc), I do have opinions on those religions

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

who knows what he might think of another view that incorporated Christ's teachings but saw the Jewish scriptures as moral myths, similar to modern liberal Judaism.

Fair point, although I do wonder how many christian religions truly do say "oh yeah, man aint the only one with a soul" although you could say DCU Christianity is different.

[Weiser_Cain]

Originally Posted by frd reborn

holy waffles?

then they and the wine would suck

[JoeZhang]

Superman can time-travel - he's seen Jesus was just some bronze-aged dude.

[Kebab Gud]

Originally Posted by Violator

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/..._religion.html

Not that it's necessarily accurate, but it's interesting.

i find it accurate (for the character i know)

Originally Posted by Corr7

i am betting Ollie believes in something, didn't he go to heaven in Quiver?

I dont belive Ollie is religious in any way.. hes not Atheist, agnostic, Christian .. he's not anything. even thou he's been dead, and met jesus once :P

[Sam Ridyard]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

Its good that that is just your opinion then, and not what most contemporary Christians believe.

The earth was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago; the earth was created over a billion years.
Who the hell cares?

If you are dismissing an entire religion over a phrase of scripture that has been acknowledged to be vague time and time again (disputed under the basis of the Hebrew word for "day" (yom) being interpreted to mean either; thousands or millions of years; or a 24-hour day) then you already decided what you were going to think in the first place.

Why bother "investigating" a particular religion, when you are going to dismiss it out of hand anyway?

But seriously, do you believe that other beings have souls?
Does your dog have a soul? (Not baiting just bemused as to whether or not you believe that.)

[JohnLynch]

Originally Posted by Sam Ridyard

If you are dismissing an entire religion over a phrase of scripture

Actually that phrase I managed to gloss over. IMO the bible does say that it was created in six days, but I ignored that as I investigated it.

Originally Posted by Sam Ridyard

But seriously, do you believe that other beings have souls?
Does your dog have a soul? (Not baiting just bemused as to whether or not you believe that.)

A) I don't believe in souls, however B) when I was investigating Christianity I was willing to take some things for granted, such as the existence of a god and souls. However when I came across the fact that only humans have souls, I had to reject. IMO if souls do exist, we aren't the only hominid to have souls. IMO some apes have the capacity to be at least as intelligent as a semi-mentally challenged human (i.e. retarded, but I'm trying to be non-offensive) and the tools to have apes reach this potential simply hasn't been applied correctly or long enough, however I do think we currently have those tools (all research on teaching apes language and other things has been incredibly biased either for or against, however there are definitely promising signs). Therefore I believe they must have souls as well. I would most definitely believe aliens like Superman have souls.

Having said all that, your post suggests that its granted only humans have souls by mainstream Christianity (or at least your Christianity if you're Christian). If so that would back up my contention that Superman couldn't be a christian.

[Sam Ridyard]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

However when I came across the fact that only humans have souls, I had to reject. IMO if souls do exist, we aren't the only hominid to have souls. IMO some apes have the capacity to be at least as intelligent as a semi-mentally challenged human (i.e. retarded, but I'm trying to be non-offensive) and the tools to have apes reach this potential simply hasn't been applied correctly or long enough, however I do think we currently have those tools (all research on teaching apes language and other things has been incredibly biased either for or against, however there are definitely promising signs). Therefore I believe they must have souls as well. I would most definitely believe aliens like Superman have souls.

Having said all that, your post suggests that its granted only humans have souls by mainstream Christianity (or at least your Christianity if you're Christian). If so that would back up my contention that Superman couldn't be a christian.

Out of curiosity, when you were investigating Christianity, what were you investigating?
Were you reading through the bible? Or things written by people about the Bible?

Can you tell me where the passage of scripture is that says that all other beings do not have souls? Cos as far as I'm aware, the Bible makes no specification about that fact.
I personally do not believe they have souls, and Ill go into why, if you wish, but its not because of pointed direction by the bible.

It does say in Genesis that G-d has given us dominion over all other creatures; But us being effectively the most powerful creatures on the planet, that really does go without saying.

[JohnLynch]

Originally Posted by Sam Ridyard

Out of curiosity, when you were investigating Christianity, what were you investigating?
Were you reading through the bible? Or things written by people about the Bible?

I read both although this was quite a few years back now (3 - 5 at a guess, but I can't really remember now) so I can't remember any specifics.

Originally Posted by Sam Ridyard

Can you tell me where the passage of scripture is that says that all other beings do not have souls? Cos as far as I'm aware, the Bible makes no specification about that fact.
I personally do not believe they have souls, and Ill go into why, if you wish, but its not because of pointed direction by the bible.

Huh, perhaps I misremember it then, I thought it was the bible but it may have been something related to it, although I could have sworn it said so in the bible. But then my memory is pretty faulty Learn something new every day anyway

[mattyhare]

Originally Posted by MuteMath

With the Spectre running around, Hal's interaction with it, Ollie's resurrection, and the existence of Zauriel, I'm sure a big chunk of the DCU's heroes (except for Mr. Terrific, of course) believe in some form of a deity along the lines of Christianity's god.

Forgive me if I appear ignorant, but does Mr Terrific have some sort of famous stance on religion? I'm not really a major DC fan, but I browse....

And incidentally, given The Spectre is a JSA member, or has been, or will be or whatever that whole crazy continuity thing is saying at the moment, (and the reasons noted by MuteMath, and a LOAD of others that I can't be bothered going into) isnt it ridiculous that any DC hero doesn't believe in a broadly Christian God?

And where do the new gods fit in? Are they just not gods but call themselves so? This is one of those issues that teribly confusing, and I guess it'll probably always be that way, becuase sorting it out would just create problems.

[JAGII]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

There have been plenty of Christians that would disagree with your conclusion. In fact, C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy suggested that each planet and alien civilization had their own Christ. This was the incarnation of the same God the Father that Christians worship, just the God the Son takes a different form. Doug TenNapel borrowed this idea in CreatureTech.

Of course, he may have meant this allegorically, but I what I know about Lewis leads me to believe he wouldn't be outright opposed to the idea of aliens. Skeptical at best.

In response to the Original Post: I think most of the analytical heroes consider any supernatural phenomenon a science that we don't understand yet. But for the most part, most characters don't have a definite, prescribed religion. I remember reading an old O'Neil Batman story where Batman was almost wistful towards Christianity, and others where he dismisses it outright. And Hal Jordan spent quite a bit of time working for God, but we haven't seen it addressed in his own book. Wasn't Nightwing an overt Christian for a while in his own book?

Personally, I love reading about religion and spirituality, so I would like to see it explored a bit more in comics. At the same time, unless the character's religion is central to that character's personality (like Flamebird or Nightcrawler over at Marvel), then I don't have any problem with their beliefs shifting from story to story.

[Nathan Scott]

Robin was definitely christian in the old Batman TV show.

[Sam Ridyard]

Originally Posted by JohnLynch

I read both although this was quite a few years back now (3 - 5 at a guess, but I can't really remember now) so I can't remember any specifics.

Huh, perhaps I misremember it then, I thought it was the bible but it may have been something related to it, although I could have sworn it said so in the bible. But then my memory is pretty faulty Learn something new every day anyway

I dont actually know myself whether or not it says so in the bible.
I was just asking myself if you knew where that conclusion came from, cos I'd like to read it myself.