THE 52 EXIT INTERVIEWS: KEITH GIFFEN

[MattBrady]

by Vaneta Rogers

Now that we know 52 really did end – and Countdown isn't some twisted, inescapable 52-sequel trap like a vortex in Rip Hunter's laboratory – it becomes even more apparent that the only "character" who's sticking around after 52 for the next weekly is Keith Giffen.

Like clockwork, for the last year, and now well into his second one, Giffen has been breaking down the pages for a comic book every single week, taking the writers' scripts and translating them into a consistent look for a multitude of artists working on the massive undertaking that is a weekly comic.

After all this time working on weeklies, it's like he's the Energizer Bunny of the weekly comic book – while editors come and go, and writers take off for other projects, Giffen keeps going, and going, and going, and going ...

So as Newsarama looks back at the year of 52, it becomes apparent that Giffen's the one guy whose hands were always there on the page. After all, he was involved at the very beginning of 52, sitting in on the creative meetings and working with the editors and creators, and his style helped to guide every single panel until the comic's end.

We sat down with Giffen to talk about his reflections on the experience of 52, and how he and all the other people involved in the comic built the weekly "machine." And somewhere between the sarcastic wit and biting comments that make Giffen such a "character," we found out the guy is pretty damned proud of the accomplishment.

Newsarama: Going all the way back to the beginning, what was your first impression of 52 and what were your expectations?

Keith Giffen: It's the kind of thing that, when they first approach you about it – having to do a weekly comic for a year that will unfold in real time – your first thought is, "Are you insane? Get away from me!" But then you start thinking about it and realizing that if everything comes together in just the right way, it's going to be something incredible. Sure, you think about how the odds are that things won't come together right, but you know how they say fear and excitement are just different variants of the same emotion? Yeah, they are.

NRAMA: But be honest Keith, did you think you guys could really pull it off?

KG: I hoped so! There was no window for error, if you think about it. Especially since, somewhere down the road, somebody said, hey, let's have it unfold in real time. Which means that, if we didn't hit the week – let's say we didn't hit Week 20? We had 32 weeks of embarrassment ahead of us! So yeah, I went into 52 with equal parts of a thrill to be taking on a challenge, and trepidation on are we going to pull this off and can it be pulled off.

NRAMA: I think you actually coined this terminology – or someone did – that you guys built the weekly "machine."

KG: Yeah. Yeah. Somehow we cobbled together this machine that is capable of churning out weekly comics on time.

NRAMA: What was the biggest surprise to you about how that machine ended up working?

KG: That it worked. That it worked at all. At any given time, we had four writers, six artists, me stuck in the middle doing the breakdowns – there were so many cogs and components and things that had to go right in order for this thing to keep chugging along, and it did. That's not to diminish the contribution of Steve Wacker and Mike Siglain, the two editors who were pretty much in charge of running maintenance on this machine 24/7. So yeah, when you talk about the 52 machine, the most astonishing thing to me is that when we pushed the "on" button, it fired up.

NRAMA: You were working on other projects the same time as 52, including the Annihilation mini-series and the Blue Beetle monthly. How difficult was it to juggle your other work with 52?

KG: Once I had developed a rhythm with the book, it wasn't really very difficult at all, as long as everything was running in a timely manner. Normally I would get a 52 part on Monday, and I would take two days – Tuesday and Wednesday, or Wednesday and Thursday – and dedicate them to 52, which left a lot of days leftover for other work I was doing. Plus I got to take my weekends off, which is kind of cool. And of course, as things got tight, unforeseen things would happen that would cause delays, so by that time, it became more "nose- to-the-grindstone." But by then, I was so deeply into it, and I had already pretty much publicly stated "there's no way this book's going to ship late," [laughs] then it was just ....

Look, there were a couple issues where it was more. And it was like, "there's no way they're going to beat me."

NRAMA: Beat me? What does that mean?

KG: There's no way this book is going to beat me down. There's no way this book is not going to come out on time. So a lot of this time there was this king of ... it almost became dogged tenacity. So, you know, the truth is that 52 put everyone through the wringer. Everyone was excited to be doing it, but they worried about it, and it would sometimes come to the point where they would just hunch their shoulders and pull through it. There were terrifying moments where we thought we weren't going to make it. So it was a roller coaster ride.

NRAMA: Terrifying moments? Was that more of an art thing or..?

KG: No. At different times, different things happened. For me to say there were no delays ... come on. All books have delays. But in our case, we couldn't let the delay take hold. That's all there is to it. Sometimes we brought the book in right under the wire. But as long as the book was brought in, that's what mattered.

NRAMA: When Steve Wacker left, that was the biggest road bump along the road, wasn't it?

KG: Yeah. I don't know if it was a road bump so much as it was, well, somebody who had been there from the beginning was gone, and knew how to run that machine, was gone, and somebody else was thrown in to run that machine without an instruction booklet and was expected to keep that machine running. So let me say, there were some awkward moments as Mike had to be brought up to speed and had to get into the weekly mindset.

Which believe me – getting out of that monthly mindset and getting into that weekly mindset is tougher than you think, especially when you've got to start thinking that the book comes out in real time. In a monthly, you can end with a guy opening a door and saying, "Oh my gosh! It's my son!" Then in the next issue, you can open with them walking into the room together. But with 52, you just said it took them seven days to reach the couch!

So I would say, I don't think it was as big a deal when Steve left as people would think. But there were some moments there where we were put into some awkward circumstances, but that's the same thing that happens with an editor change on a monthly book too. Your comfort zone is suddenly intruded upon by this outsider, and you're not sure what this person is going to be like. It's a paradigm. Is he a jerk? How are things going to work out? So that was the extent of the editor switch. Of course Steve was missed. He was the guy who helped work out the blueprints for the whole book. So he was missed. But it wasn't like him leaving was some great disaster.

NRAMA: There were a lot of people involved in this thing. It was really a collaborative effort.

KG: It had to be. Well, first of all, we had four writers working on the book every week, so it better be collaborative or we've got big trouble. And Grant Morrison put it best in one of the meetings. He said, my god, it's like a band! We're members of a band!

NRAMA: So what are you in the band?

KG: I'm Pete Best.

NRAMA: [laughs] The drummer who didn't quite make it.

KG: [laughs] Something as big as this – at one point, we were juggling eight artists and four writers and inkers out the wazoo – it better be a collaborative effort! Nobody let their ego get in the way. Nobody suddenly decided, well, if this is the band, I'm really the lead singer. It's not the Supremes anymore. Now it's "Diana Ross" and the Supremes. Nobody decided to step up and try to be Diana Ross. Everybody realized that, you know, they've got their part to play, and they're going to play it to the best of their ability under mind- numbing deadline.

NRAMA: You did all the breakdowns for 52.

KG: Yeah.

NRAMA: And I've heard you mention before the "visual language" of a weekly book. What do you mean by that? Was it a lot different from what you would have done in a monthly?

KG: Well, maybe not what I would have done in a monthly, but from what one of the artists would have done in a monthly – yeah. When I was brought on board to basically do the storyboards, it was not because we had no faith in these artists' storytelling abilities. These are all professionals. But a book coming out weekly is in your face every week, and artist all have their own tone and rhythm for telling a story. Joe Bennett is not going to lay out a story the way Chris Batista, who is not going to lay out a story the same way Shawn Moll would.

On a weekly comic, that tends to affect the story because the eye is constantly jarred by different storytelling approaches, by different ways of telling the story. If there are two different artists on two books and you read them back to back, both books feel different. With a weekly book, you don't have that three week period to digest what you read. And the idea with 52 is that the books feel as consistent as possible, so when you're reading through it, yes, maybe what's inside the panel is going to alter a little bit and the way the guy draws the characters may change a little bit, but the panel arrangement and the story beats and the storytelling rhythm remains consistent. So that's why I was there, so that through the entire run, that storytelling rhythm remained consistent, from Joe Bennett to Eddy Barrows to Dan Jurgens.

NRAMA: You doing the layout, I think last time we talked, you mentioned that it had gotten you to the point where you were itching to do some penciling again. Is that still true?

KG: Yeah. I'm still itching. But it would have to be one of those things where, you know, "We'll solicit it when it's in." It would have to be a broad, broad deadline. I don't have the time to switch over to full-time penciling, I wouldn't want to switch over to full- time penciling, and at the same time, I wouldn't want to be under a deadline where I'd finally pick back up the pencil and have to hack my way through it and think, "Well, that was a stupid idea."

NRAMA: You had to really hone your layout skills, I'm sure, so do you think you've grown as an artist?

KG: Every time you put pencil to paper or fingers to keyboard, you should be growing, even if it's in little incremental stages. Yeah, I think 52 really honed my abilities as just a layout guy and storyteller.

But a lot of the work that I'm doing for 52 came from my time doing storyboards for Batman Beyond, Static Shock and the like. So I did tend to bring some of that animation layout to 52. If you look at the breakdowns I've done, you can see the influence.

NRAMA: Explain that. For those of our readers who aren't familiar with the animation process, what does that mean?

KG: I would approach these scripts the same way I would approach a script on Batman Beyond. I have to make the characters on model, so I can be looser. I'm more interested in seeing the story told than making a pretty picture.

NRAMA: Yeah, I was talking to one of the writers earlier, and he pointed out that there are very few splash pages in 52. It's more about the story, and the story is so dense.

KG: Yeah. And splash pages are great, and I enjoyed some of those in 52, but my favorite moments in 52 were always the character-driven moments. There were the fight scenes and the like, but that was always less interesting to me. I was always more interested in the character moments, like how Renee Montoya and the Question bounced off of one another, the building of the Black Adam/Isis relationship, the relationship of Steel and his niece ... those were the moments I liked.

NRAMA: And the ones you got to lay out.

KG: Yeah, and there's nothing more challenging than taking a scene where two people talk to each other for two pages, and make it work visually so it's not just talking heads. That's when you start moving your camera around, shifting your angle and thinking, "how can I make this page as interesting as possible?" I have to make it as dynamic as possible because the fact is, they're not doing anything. So that's the stuff I love.

NRAMA: You brought up a few relationships that you enjoyed watching develop, but can you point to some specific scenes that were your favorites and you thought were really powerful moments in the series?

KG: Well, my favorite is Sobek chowing down on Osiris, 'cause I hated that kid. I hated Osiris. On my breakdowns, I used to draw him where someone put a little dork sign on his back. I hated that kid so much. So that moment was a big favorite.

Another is when I first saw the scene where Booster Gold seemed to die. That took me by surprise. I had no idea that was coming. That doesn't mean I didn't know what was going on in 52. I knew the overall, but I deliberately stayed away from the conference calls so that I would not know the road we were taking to get to the destination. It helped me do the breakdowns with a fresh eye. And also, I figured that if they can keep me interested, and I'm excited to see what's going on and I'm charged up by the story, then the odds are that the fans are too, because I'm a tough audience.

NRAMA: OK, before you go on to another favorite moment, your layouts were posted on 52.com, and I remember that when the Booster death was posted, there was more than one version – some specifically showing him die. Was that to trip up the readers and make them believe this death was real?

KG: No. They ran all three variants didn't they? I did a couple of variants on the death scene because the writers knew where the story had to go and they were trying to figure out the best way to work the death scene while accommodating the story. I did not know, at this point, how they were going to work that. I knew Booster Gold was Supernova, but I didn't know what was coming.

Of course, first I go for the gore. My favorite death scene was where he lands and he'd cut in half. That's my favorite one. It turns out you can't do that because it wasn't really him, or the present him anyway, and otherwise it would mean killing a human being, which you couldn't do. And the other one was when he flies up to catch him and the body explodes into dust. I kind of like the idea of Supernova landing and dusting himself off and you realize, "Hey, that's Booster he's wiping off!" But that played into the comic book thing of, well, you didn't see the body. So we had to use what we used – or at least, the writers determined that was the best way to approach the scene.

If you look at the breakdowns, you'll see where I had some false starts or was asked to do some variants. Every so often, I was called on to provide an alternative. So that Booster scene was one of those times.

NRAMA: OK, other favorite moments.

KG: The death of the Question. I think that played out really well. And you know, I liked the entire Montoya/Question relationship. I thought that story was really well put together. But a lot of the moments I liked were the quieter moments, like the Question finally putting his thumb on Renee's problem in that van, throwing files at her; Steel in front of his niece, where he's first metallic, and he's pitching a fit, and that came out really well because we included stairs, so there's actually movement instead of just having them stand and argue with each other; and there were just a lot of moments that I thought came across well that way, and I'm forgetting them.

And there were moments where I read them and I thought, "Oh, sh*t, no."

NRAMA: [laughs] Can you name one?

KG: I didn't want to put Lobo in the book. I really didn't. I was the one dissenting voice.

NRAMA: You're supposed to be the Lobo guy!

KG: I don't have anything left to say about the guy. I'm tired of him. I wish someone would take this character off my hands!

NRAMA: But someone did. What do you think of what Grant did with him?

KG: You know, I firmly believe that all criticism boils down to one sentence: "That's not the way I would have done it." And, no, it's not the way I would have done Lobo. Does that mean it's better or worse? I think it's neither. It was Grant's voice, it was Grant channeling Lobo, and it is what it is. I'm more prone to want to dislike it simply because I'm so tired of Lobo.

NRAMA: [laughs] Fair enough.

KG: But you know, another moment – Ambush Bug showing up was kind of nice.

NRAMA: Oh, I bet you liked that.

KG: And it's funny, there was actually something in my breakdowns that I guess DC thought was too extreme. There's a shot at one point where somebody gets burned up, and Ambush Bug puts a foot on him and yells, "Mommy!" And in my breakdown, he was running up to him wearing an apron and holding a weiner on a stick.

NRAMA: Did you do things like that a lot?

KG: Sometimes. Like initially, they called in the plot for Black Adam tearing Terra-Man in two being done in a tasteful manner, but I wasn't going to have any of that.

NRAMA: So you're the culprit. They're blaming Geoff Johns for the gore, but it was you!

KG: [laughs] Yeah! But sometimes I would take things that they thought should be a little more subtle and I would find a strength in there and put it on camera and just see if it would go through.

NRAMA: Did you ever have a time when you laid something out and an artist either really nailed what you were going for, or they took it to another level?

KG: Yes. Yes. There were quite a few moments like that where an artist would take the breakdown and alter it a little bit because they see the page in front of them. Nine times out of 10, they were dead right. That said, everyone was really, really careful about sticking to the rhythm of the breakdowns. That's not to say they followed them slavishly. But they understood why I was there. There was never an artist who said, "F*** this! I'm doing it my way!" No, everyone understood why I was there. And if they deviated from the breakdowns, then as I said, nine times out of 10, it was better for the book.

There were times when they deviated from the breakdown and I said, "Aw, man, you killed the scene." And I would either call in and say, "Uh... they killed the scene." Or if it was just too late to do anything, I would grit my teeth and move on. And no, I'm not going to go into those moments. I'm not going to dump on a bunch of artist who did stellar work just because they fumbled the ball on a panel or two.

NRAMA: I won't even ask. What do you think of the weekly format? Do you think the weekly format is going to survive?

KG: Year-long events with a weekly comic out every week? I don't think so.

NRAMA: You think Countdown's it?

KG: I don't know. At this point, I don't know. A weekly comic is an incredible talent draw. It just sucks talent up. Like I've said, 52 completely absorbed four writers, at one point eight artists, an army of inkers, not to mention editorial and production. The machine to make weekly comics is there. But the resources to keep it running for an extended period aren't there.

I think weekly comics are here to stay in one form or another. I wouldn't be surprised if weekly comics become the format for summer event books. In other words, I think maybe, if Marvel were considering a Civil War-type miniseries for 2009? They'd seriously consider, since they have the lead time, putting it out on a weekly basis. I think we've legitimized weekly comics as an alternative to putting something out as a monthly. So yeah, I think they're here to stay, but I don't think they're meant to be a constant presence where they're on the stands week after week after week after week.

NRAMA: Well, I think one of the elements that was so different about 52 – and I know from talking to you about why you chose, for example, the characters you did for your Justice League, that you find this kind of thing appealing – was the fact that they took such C- and D-list characters and told this big story through a them. While the weekly is certainly an accomplishment, isn't there something to be said for 52 now establishing the fact that a story can work and can sell without not only Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, but any big-name characters at all in the lead parts? No Green Lantern, no Flash, nobody like that. These are pretty obscure characters in the DCU, and yet it sold and readers responded to it.

KG: I'd like to think that the lesson here is good story trumps all. And I know a lot has to do with the way the characters were handled by the writers. Because really, when we walked in, it was Renee Montoya with the Question as her co-star, and John Henry and Booster Gold... and it was like, "The Justice League of Who Gives a Damn." Now? Some of these characters have been elevated to almost A-list status and people are wanting to use them now. That's a credit to the big four. That's a credit to the way the big four thought this out and the way they handled the characters. Because yeah, no Superman, no Batman, no Wonder Woman, no Justice League – hey, thanks DC! But hey, look, it worked.

You know, in hindsight, the deck was kind of stacked in our favor at the start. These were characters who weren't major characters. Using them, combined with the fact that 52 was the first attempt to do a weekly comic in real time, this novelty, compelled people to sample it. But it becomes a credit to the four writers that once you sampled it, they hooked you.

We've talked about this before, but I've talked about 52 being like a NASCAR race. Nobody goes to see the cars go around and around – they go for the crash. But somewhere along the line, that had to change. These people who were waiting to see if we were going to do it, somewhere along the line they got hooked on the characters.

NRAMA: And characters that may have been labeled in the past as not "big" enough – that just doesn't apply here.

KG: There's never been bad characters. There's only been bad handling.

NRAMA: Good statement. You know, Keith, talking to the writers, and having asked them about disagreements that might have arisen, they've indicated pretty strongly that, among them, there was a pretty strong sense of unity. But there were times when it because creative vs. editorial. Keith, you're in a really weird spot there.

KG: I was. I really was. You know what it was? I deliberately stayed out of the conference calls and that kind of minutia. And part of that was because I was in that sort of nebulous limbo between creative and editorial. My job was to help the creative side out as much as possible and facilitate the storytelling. But my job was also to make sure this book was there and to work with editorial, going through and picking out little glitches and, basically, doing what I do best: Being an obnoxious pain in the ass.

NRAMA: [laughs] Did you ever have to take a side in one of those disagreements?

KG: There were times when I had to pick one side or another, but it was never like I was coming in with a cape and saying, "Ta da! I'll solve this problem!" It was never like that. There were times when I went to bat for the creators and I said, "no, no, no, this has got to be in there; this is good, this is solid and I can knock this out of the ballpark in layouts." And there were other times when I had to look at editorial and go, "OK, in this case, they're right. We need to do this."

But there were battles won and battles lost. There's always going to be friction. The fact that there's creative friction is a good thing. I always think creative friction is a good thing. If it's the kind of friction that becomes personal, then the book falls apart. And 52 didn't fall apart. So the differences of opinion, as heated as those kinds of things can sometimes get, worked to the book's benefit.

And I find it really hard to believe that anybody involved in 52 is going to walk away from 52 bearing a grudge against somebody else that was involved in 52, be it production or art or writers or editorial or whatever the hell it was I did. It's an accomplishment. Everyone can share in the accomplishment. And when it's done, it's really hard to remember the little crap that popped up along the way. And there were scenes in 52 that I despised. I fought for them to be done a different way. But in hindsight? Was I right or was I wrong? Who knows? Because all criticism comes down to, "that's not the way I would have done it." Guess what, Keith? You're not doing it!

NRAMA: If you look at the experience of 52, is there anything that you look at and say, that's one regret? And what would you say is the thing you're most proud of?

KG: Well, first off, I regret some of the things I lost because of 52. Sleep. Sleep was one. I think there are a handful of brain cells I'm never getting back. I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming, "52!" But I don't know. It's weird. You know, I didn't have to give up anything to do 52 because I'm kind of anal-retentive. I get embarrassed when I'm late or a book skips. I tend to curl up and whimper. So when I knew 52 was coming, I cleared enough stuff off my plate to make room for it.

Countdown on the other hand ...

NRAMA: Uh oh.

KG: Well, there was a period where it looked like Countdown and 52 were going to overlap. And for Countdown, I had to surrender Blue Beetle. I would have liked to have stayed on that book for the two years I had planned. But John Rogers is doing a great job on that book, and when I looked around at all the stuff I was doing, I had to choose the book that would be affected the least by my walking off. I had to lose the ego.

Uh ... what was the other half of the question?

NRAMA: What are you most proud of about 52?

KG: May 2nd. I'm most proud of the fact that we did it. We pulled it off. And it's not hack work. Love it, hate it – everyone's got their own opinion – but we did it. We pulled off a weekly comic book unfolding in real time. We did not miss a single ship date.

Now, having said that, we did it weekly. Why can't we do it monthly?

NRAMA: It does beg that question.

KG: For me, it becomes very difficult, having had the 52 experience, for me to screw up a monthly book. The monthly books now seem to craaaaaaawl. I was just working on something last week that I was like, wow, I have two weeks to do this yet. That monthly down time, that luxury to maybe polish the story and rework it and go back and second guess – that is something that I was never aware of it before. But 52 certainly put the monthly experience in perspective.

But I'm most proud of the fact that we did it, we pulled it off, it came out, we didn't skip a week, and... everyone's still talking to one another! You've talked to the writers. There's nobody who's like, "The one thing I hated about 52 was having to work with that god-dammed Geoff Johns." There none of that! When you have a project like that where you look at it and say, "Man!! Everyone pulled together!" To the best of their ability. Yeah... there's a big sense of pride that comes with that.

NRAMA: That's understandable.

KG: But at the end of the day, it's still just a comic book. It's not like we cured cancer or anything.

NRAMA: [laughs] You just can't let the positive thought go without the sarcastic jab, can you Keith?

KG: [laughs] Just to put it in perspective! OK? There's still a war in Iraq, OK?

NRAMA: Is there anything else you wanted to say about the experience you had on 52?

KG: Nothing. Well, except, you know, it was enjoyable. I think it was a good experience. And there are certain characters in 52 that I'm going to miss visiting on a weekly basis.

NRAMA: You're not the only one.

KG: Yeah. But that said, now I'm into Countdown and a whole new group of characters. And these are the guys we all voted down for 52!

NRAMA: [laughs] The rejects.

KG: So it's like, with 52, I thought, "I'm so glad I dodged that bullet and didn't have to use that guy." And then I get Countdown, and it's like, "There he is! Oh f***!!" [laughs]

And I'll tell you something, there was a lot of stuff in 52 that had to be thrown aside. So when you think about it, it was a weekly comic that came out for a year, and we still had too much stuff to do in that year.

NRAMA: Well you said at the beginning of the year – I think it was the first time we talked about 52 – that you were surprised how much story there was to tell. You said people wondered how you could come up with enough to fill a whole year – 52 issues – and your reply was that you felt like, after meeting with everyone, there was almost too much.

KG: Yeah. It's always better to walk in with too much than too little.

NRAMA: Because you can whittle it down to the things that really work for the story.

KG: Right. And you know, these meetings were just creative overflow – "Oooo! Wouldn't this be cool! Oooo! Wouldn't that be cool!" It was like a bunch of fanboys bidding on an Action Comics #1 or whatever.

But yeah, my proudest thing about 52 is May 2nd.

NRAMA: “5/2”.

KG: Yeah! And we didn't plan it that way. That's a weird piece of serendipity, isn't it? It comes out on 5/2?

You know, the one thing I won't miss about 52 is people pointing out the number 52 to me as it pops up in my daily life. I mean, I feel like Jim Carrey in that 23 movie! "Do you realize you were born in 1952? And you were 52 when you got the project?" Go away. Go away!

NRAMA: I have seen that number everywhere – written on papers on someone's desk, on signs along the road, even on barcodes, for crying out loud. You just can't get away from it. You can run from the power of 52, but you can't hide.

KG: Yeah! Yeah! It's everywhere! I've never been more aware, when watching the weather report, of when the temperature is 52! I'm not going to miss that at all. I'm going to be glad when 52 once again becomes the number between 51 and 53 again.

NRAMA: But will it ever?

KG: I think it will.

NRAMA: Oh, man. This interview's going long, but you just made me think of a question I have to ask. You've been in this business a long time – since the '70s, right? – so you've seen a lot of comics come and go and fade into the past, which makes you an ideal person to comment on this. How do you think history will look back on 52? In the future, where will it fit into the history of comic books?

KG: Well, it's the comic book that is the first successful weekly that fulfilled its function. I think, down the line, it will be seen as the first. Maybe they'll think, it was a nice start, but the ones that came after were even better, or they'll say it was "fine tuning" the machine before putting it into the field. But I think it's going to stand as an accomplishment.

I told the guys at the first meeting, I remember saying, "Look." And this may not work right in your written interview, because you can't get the intonation, but I said, "Look. We pull this off, and we make comic book history. If we fail, we make comic book history." And I don't want my name on that. I want my name on the success.

NRAMA: And you did it. You crossed the finish line.

KG: Yeah, but if it sounds like I was more interested in crossing the finish line than in telling good stories.. you know, as you get into this thing, you're going down the road and you're cruising along ... so you're already telling a good story if everyone's firing on all cylinders and everyone's interested. So I had to be concerned about the finish line. Because I was lucky in that before I got to do my bit on 52, four of the premier writers in the industry did their bit.

That's not to say four other writers couldn't do it. No, you know what? That is to say four other writers couldn't do it. These guys came into 52 at the top of their game. And this story is really an accomplishment. It's like a graphic novel, but it's huge. And I think it holds together really well. I think the end beats provide the closure that people want. I think it's right to be proud of the finish line, but I recognize their accomplishment in telling this story.

And it's done. We did it. And hey, you know what? At the end of it all, I can just say it was an interesting trip. But thank God we're there.

Previously:

Mark Waid

Geoff Johns

[nikoli29]

These interviews have been great. Really informative and insightful.
Also, Keith Giffen is the man.

[whitemarkd]

Great interview - Giffen is such a class act, pointing out that things didn't go perfectly, but he refuses to blame anyone. Love this line: "But at the end of the day, it's still just a comic book. It's not like we cured cancer or anything." Talk about perspective (artist pun intended).

One question - why is it always presumed that a weekly series has to be finite? Why can't we have a weekly ongoing that serves the same "spine" function as Countdown supposedly will? A jumping-off point for storylines, points of intersection for various characters and plots, showcasing (or Showcase-ing, if you will) new or neglected characters - doesn't even have to be 22 pages (if it's priced accordingly).

[Kevin T. Brown]

This comment made me laugh so hard:

I think maybe, if Marvel were considering a Civil War-type miniseries for 2009? They'd seriously consider, since they have the lead time, putting it out on a weekly basis.

Not trying to turn this into a Marvel bash, but they couldn't even get a book out monthly....


Anyway, this interview proves that Keith Giffen is a literal fountain of creative energy. 52 and now Countdown is damn lucky to have him on board.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by KeithGiffen

You know, the one thing I won't miss about 52 is people pointing out the number 52 to me as it pops up in my daily life. I mean, I feel like Jim Carrey in that 23 movie! "Do you realize you were born in 1952? And you were 52 when you got the project?"

* shew * Glad to know we weren't the only ones seeing 52 everywhere we went...

[Uchiha_Prodigy]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

KG: There's never been bad characters. There's only been bad handling.

Quoted for truth

[jmcl89]

Originally Posted by Kevin T. Brown

Not trying to turn this into a Marvel bash, but they couldn't even get a book out monthly....

They would have to do the same thing DC did with 52, which is to decide that the story is more important than the art. Because you really can't tell a big-event story in a shared universe and write it far enough in advance to allow a single, top-tier artist to draw the whole thing.

[dantebk]

I must be a dope because I read the Countdown preview that's going around online and was like "Visually this book looks the same as 52! What's going on?"

And I forget the main man Keith Giffen was doing storyboards for it. No wonder! Well even if Countdown flops storywise we can all know it'll be visually pleasant and easy to follow...

[cap infinity]

Originally Posted by Keith Giffen

I get embarrassed when I'm late or a book skips. I tend to curl up and whimper. So when I knew 52 was coming, I cleared enough stuff off my plate to make room for it.

We did not miss a single ship date. Now, having said that, we did it weekly. Why can't we do it monthly?

Once again my respect for Keith grows. Can we put him in charge when Dan leaves?

[c_andrew_s]

Originally Posted by nikoli29

These interviews have been great. Really informative and insightful.
Also, Keith Giffen is the man.

I agree! Keith is amazing, and I can't wait to see the next issue of "Tag" from Boom Studios

[UnderNoMoon]

It's nice to see someone being realistic about the whole process. I was getting wary of these guys saying that they had no regrets or things they would have done differently. Nothing is going to be prefect. Giffen is willing to admit that, while still being respectful of the bookand the people that worked on it. Very nice.

[vbartilucci]

Originally Posted by whitemarkd

One question - why is it always presumed that a weekly series has to be finite? Why can't we have a weekly ongoing that serves the same "spine" function as Countdown supposedly will? A jumping-off point for storylines, points of intersection for various characters and plots, showcasing (or Showcase-ing, if you will) new or neglected characters - doesn't even have to be 22 pages (if it's priced accordingly).

It's not that a weekly series has to end, it's just that having an end in sight gives the reader something to look forward to, and it sort of makes sure people will stay through the whole thing.

Look at TV shows. The popular format now is to have a massive arc that takes the whole season to tell. If you know you'll get a payoff at the end of the year, you'll hang on. But if the show just keeps going without really paying off any stories, there's a sense of endlessness to it. Heroes and 24, as opposed to Lost, for example.

[Andrew.T]

I love Keith Giffen.

This guy is a one man house of ideas.

Anyone remember his brilliant 'The March Hare' he did quite a few years back? That book still gives me a laugh every time I reread it and any fans of Ambush Bug would love March Hare.

Plus, I second the notion = Keith Giffen as the new President!

[KaijubotX]

I'd just like to say that Vaneta is doing a fantastic job on these interviews. Looking foward to the rest!

[Scavenger]

Originally Posted by Kevin T. Brown

This comment made me laugh so hard:
Not trying to turn this into a Marvel bash, but they couldn't even get a book out monthly....
.

Yet you did anyway.

I don't recall any of Annihilation being late. Both Marvel & DC have big books that become late. I has nothing to do with the company and everything to do with the professionalism of the creators.

It should also be noted that it is exceedingly rare for a book to be late because of the writer. 52 didn't have the same artist doing the books. Over a 2 month span, they'd have 8 artists doing 1 book each, which is very different from 1 artists having 2 books in that same 2 months span.

[Scavenger]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

* shew * Glad to know we weren't the only ones seeing 52 everywhere we went...

That's cuz it's in your signature, dummy!

[jsf]

Keith Giffen has to be the best creator in the business at the moment. To be involved in so many incredible projects -- and to be doing them so well -- is really an accomplishment in today's comic industry.

Honestly, the guy needs to be acknowledged for what he now is, which is one of the "greats."

[OM]

...Of course, everyone conveniently forgets Vibe when they make this claim

[rwe1138]

I hope Ambush Bug shows up in Countdown.

[Kolimar]

Great interview, Vaneta. I always enjoy a good interview with Keith and this was no exception.

[bigdaddyhub]

I thought McNiven did a great job on Civil War, although I am not the biggest fan of the high-gloss art. But it does make you think about what can happen when you put lots of talents on a single book.

However, if you look at DC's entire lineup for the post-crisis, it seems like there are as many misfires as there are successes. It makes you wonder how much strain the weekly book really puts on an organization. Personally, I am not that big of a fan of weeklies. I think that it won't last long because of the stress it puts on the production team and the wallet stretching effect.

[whitemarkd]

Originally Posted by vbartilucci

It's not that a weekly series has to end, it's just that having an end in sight gives the reader something to look forward to, and it sort of makes sure people will stay through the whole thing.

Look at TV shows. The popular format now is to have a massive arc that takes the whole season to tell. If you know you'll get a payoff at the end of the year, you'll hang on. But if the show just keeps going without really paying off any stories, there's a sense of endlessness to it. Heroes and 24, as opposed to Lost, for example.

Well, then have arcs within the weekly ongoing, just like monthly ongoings. I just don't see why a weekly has to be finite just because it's weekly.

And also, if people need a huge arc to justify sticking with a book (or TV program), that's sad in a way - good stories month after month (or week after week) should be able to hold onto readers (or viewers) too. (Look at Dini's Detective Comics stories, for instance - even though he promises linkages between the issues eventually, I think most people are just enjoying it for the great stories.)

So you may be right, but I hope not...

[whitemarkd]

Sorry - double post...

[wildcat71]

Could we PLEASE, just this once, not make this a Marvel VS DC thing? They both put out great books, they both put out stinkers, they both put out late books.......

[DaVeO]

After Countdown, DC should put the weekly to rest. Not forever, just don't milk it for all it's worth.
I'd love to see Marvel try this with a bunch of C and D-listers. Frankly I don't think they'd be able to resist throwing Spider-Man or a high-profile X-Man. But I'd like to see 'em try.
Awesome interview.