Continuity in Comics--What Happened?

[cncoyle]

Are there message boards for comic strip continuity? Would it go something like this...?

Dagumnit, I just can't take it any more! It was bad enough that EVERY DAY, those kids in "The Family Circus" didn't age nor remember what happened THE DAY BEFORE, but now the "Foxtrot" kids have been the same age for, what, five years? Is "For Better or For Worse" the only comic that has continuity?!?

That sounds pretty silly, doesn't it? Well, people, let's take a chill pill about the whole Superman: Birthright thing. It's not like Superman is suddenly a Thanagarian; he's just a vegetarian. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

I've been a fan of Superman for a quarter of a century. I loved many things about the Pre-Crisis DCU and I love a lot of things that came out post-Crisis. There are also plenty of things that have happened in the DCU for the past 20 years that I haven't liked. I miss many of the Earth-2 characters. I miss Donna Troy, Kara Zor-El, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, Katar & Shayera Hol, the Statellite-era JLA... I could go on.

But, y'know what? If some of these changes hadn't happened, I wouldn't have the monthly treats of Teen Titans, JSA or Outsiders. I never would have the pleasure of a spectacular 80-issue run of Peter David's Supergirl (Best. Run. Ever.)

I'm seeing a lot of bile rising up on the Talk@Newsarama boards that has caused the departure of some pretty cool people over the past few weeks. All I'm saying is--Keep everything in perspective. If you don't like what's going down right now, then be patient. DC Comics (much like Marvel) eventually fixes their mistakes. If you do like what's going on, then enjoy the show.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by cncoyle
I'm seeing a lot of bile rising up on the Talk@Newsarama boards that has caused the departure of some pretty cool people over the past few weeks. All I'm saying is--Keep everything in perspective. If you don't like what's going down right now, then be patient. DC Comics (much like Marvel) eventually fixes their mistakes. If you do like what's going on, then enjoy the show/

I've been wanting to comment on this for a while. Especially with all this "Goodbye, I'm done posting here" stuff. It's a message board on the internet. If all you get when you come here is worked up and ulcers everytime you come here, then you prolly need to find something better to do with your time. Seriously, I know I'm a dick sometimes, but I don't try to cause heartache. Some of you guys get pretty worked up about some stuff. I'm sure there's maybe a person or two that comes here to stir up the pot and cause a little trouble, but its not like you have to feed into that. Just be happy you are alive and able to read your comics

[Godsoe]

The great thing about comics is that your old stories don't just go away because of new continuity, check your back issues and i'll bet you anything that you'll see Clark or Supes proudly eating meat, take a deep breath that the drawing of beef stroganoff didn't magicly reform into a salad and relive the old days by reading the back issues or trades. If ya don't like the new Superman, don't buy it and stick with the stories you love. Theres still plenty of them to read and enjoy, and theres a whole multitude of other books out there just waiting to be enjoyed. Superman is a fictional character, so make up your own continuity and chill out. But thats just my opinion, and I don;t even like superman to begin with.

[aphterburn]

People who are making light on this whole Birthright thing are once again missing the point. It's not that Superman is a vegetarian. It's that stories that were the basis for years of continuity are now out the window. How is Kyle Rayner still Green Lantern if the Cyborg never existed and Coast City didn't happen? It's just poor editorial work.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by aphterburn
People who are making light on this whole Birthright thing are once again missing the point. It's not that Superman is a vegetarian. It's that stories that were the basis for years of continuity are now out the window. How is Kyle Rayner still Green Lantern if the Cyborg never existed and Coast City didn't happen? It's just poor editorial work.

So all the continuity that Marvel has thrown out the window and does not require any of its creators to adhere to ANY of the old continuity isn't worse than Birthright?

Maybe its just me, but I think the whole X-Men mess is far worse than just Superman.

[Godsoe]

Originally posted by aphterburn
People who are making light on this whole Birthright thing are once again missing the point. It's not that Superman is a vegetarian. It's that stories that were the basis for years of continuity are now out the window. How is Kyle Rayner still Green Lantern if the Cyborg never existed and Coast City didn't happen? It's just poor editorial work.

Whats to say it didn't other then it's stated as "official" continuity? Superman isn't real, Kyle Raynor isn't real, they are fictional characters and so there are several interpritations. Since they are fictional characters you don't have to go by "official" continuity and especially seince they are iconic characters. Who knows, maybe DC will retract that statement? Maybe Waid ment something else? Maybe he's trying to piss off some fanboys and rattle some chains? I dunno, and personally I don't care. I'm sure if this is one big collasal screw up then DC will fix everything up and i'm allmost certain this isn't the last we've heard on this issue. But untill things get fixed, read the old stories, stop buying birthright, pretend this isn't happening and ignor it, whatever. You have the ability to do so since these aren't real people.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by Godsoe
Whats to say it didn't other then it's stated as "official" continuity? Superman isn't real, Kyle Raynor isn't real, they are fictional characters and so there are several interpritations. Seince they are fictional characters you don't have to go by "official" continuity and especially seince they are iconic characters. Who knows, maybe DC will retract that statement? Maybe Waid ment something else? Maybe he's trying to piss off some fanboys and rattle some chains? I dunno, and personally I don't care. I'm sure if this is one big collasal screw up then DC will fix everything up and i'm allmost certain this isn't the last we've heard on this issue. But untill things get fixed, read the old stories, stop buying birthright, pretend this isn't happening and ignor it, whatever. You have the ability to do so seince these aren't real people.

"since" sorry you mispelled it 3 times

[Godsoe]

Originally posted by Godfather
"since" sorry you mispelled it 3 times

thanks for lookin out for me

[Kryptonsfinest]

Continuity in Comics is a concept that is pretty much long dead. With the influx of so many different creative teams on just about every other comic every month, there is no room for it anymore. No long runs to establish anything and when a new guy takes over he either ignores or changes what happend in the issues before he came.

I am not trying to be a downer here, because I think it is a great time to be reading comics. There is some really high quality product being published right now, and I am thrilled to be a fan of the medium right now. Comics like music and movies have to change with the times to try and stay modern so as to always be able to maintain and audience and bring in new readers. I don't think anything that is going on in any comics is gonna alienate the older fans, because you still have the old stories there not going aways because something changes now. Even if they do tweak and change characters origins it doesn't have to change everything that has happend to the character since his origin. I think it is more important to focus on what the characters are doing now than what happend way back in history.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by Kryptonsfinest
Continuity in Comics is a concept that is pretty much long dead. With the influx of so many different creative teams on just about every other comic every month, there is no room for it anymore. No long runs to establish anything and when a new guy takes over he either ignores or changes what happend in the issues before he came.

I am not trying to be a downer here, because I think it is a great time to be reading comics. There is some really high quality product being published right now, and I am thrilled to be a fan of the medium right now. Comics like music and movies have to change with the times to try and stay modern so as to always be able to maintain and audience and bring in new readers. I don't think anything that is going on in any comics is gonna alienate the older fans, because you still have the old stories there not going aways because something changes now. Even if they do tweak and change characters origins it doesn't have to change everything that has happend to the character since his origin. I think it is more important to focus on what the characters are doing now than what happend way back in history.

Not to mention with all the reprinting of the older stuff, its not hard to go back and read what you truly enjoyed in the past. I just started going through the first Batman DC Archive, I read the first issue (Detective 27). I thought it was kind of funny that Commisioner Gordon just invites Bruce Wayne to a murder seen lol. "Oh hey, got nothin to do Bruce? Let's go check out dead bodies at a murder scene!"

[Godsoe]

That kinda reminds me of some questions brought up when I re watched Batman Returns a while back. Why do they need Bruce Wayne's approval for everything? "I'm gonna stop you Shreck!"

Meh bad example, Batman movies aren't about continuity, there about rubber nipples.

[Blind Assassin]

Good point, gang. I guess we get all worked up over things cause we care, but sometimes we get a little carried away.

I didn't really care that Supes is a vegetarian. I didn't care that some of his origin changed.

What I did care about, is that Dc waitied to announce that this is the 'new' continuity/reboot/origin or whatever eight issues into a 12 issue series .

Had they announced this earlier (like when the series started), it would have been good for people like me, who don't read Superman to get on board and see if we like it. If I had, I would most likely be reading GodFall (is that the name of the story right now) and enjoying it.

But, since they announced it now , I am gonna have to wait for the trade, because those issues are long since sold out at my shop.

I feel DC blew a chance to get new readers who are wondering 'what is this superman guy all about', but don't want all that baggage.

With all the people talking about dropping the title, they may wish that they had us onboard from the beginning.

[Kryptonsfinest]

yes the definitly should have said something about this before the series started not 8 issues in. It could have brought in a lot more readers if they had.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by Blind Assassin
Good point, gang. I guess we get all worked up over things cause we care, but sometimes we get a little carried away.

I didn't really care that Supes is a vegetarian. I didn't care that some of his origin changed.

What I did care about, is that Dc waitied to announce that this is the 'new' continuity/reboot/origin or whatever eight issues into a 12 issue series .

Had they announced this earlier (like when the series started), it would have been good for people like me, who don't read Superman to get on board and see if we like it. If I had, I would most likely be reading GodFall (is that the name of the story right now) and enjoying it.

But, since they announced it now , I am gonna have to wait for the trade, because those issues are long since sold out at my shop.

I feel DC blew a chance to get new readers who are wondering 'what is this superman guy all about', but don't want all that baggage.

With all the people talking about dropping the title, they may wish that they had us onboard from the beginning.

From what I've read and understand. They weren't too sure they wanted to make this his "reboot" new origin. I mean, I sure didn't start buying Birthright because it was a rebooted origin. It wasn't advertised to be that way either. I honestly bought it because I liked Waid's stuff on Fantastic Four and I thought the art was pretty good.

[Blind Assassin]

I get what you are saying Godfather, but this one went under my radar.

It seems with Superman/Batman and Superman Generations 3, and Superman:Red Son, and all the other elseworld Superman titles, I just thought that Birthright was gonna be another elseworld's take on his origin. I didn't look into it too much beyond that.

I think you are right, because a lot of other people are saying that they weren't sure if they wanted to make this 'the new deal or not'--

but at the same time, in Waid's interview, he says it was meticulously planned out since day one....


seems kind of suspicious to me that if this was carefully planned since day one, they didn't tell anyone.


On a related note, I saw the preview for Steven Seagles Original Hardcover "IT's a Bird", which ironically enough, doesn't even feature Superman. But the premise of the book and the artwork really have me curious, and I love Seagle and Kristianson (I think I spelled it wrong, sorry) when they work together.

[cncoyle]

I agree that the whole "Oh, yeah, Superman: Birthright is the official redux of Superman's origin. Now, enjoy issue #9!" is definitely late information and wishy-washy. I gotta agree with tralfaz that a Hypercrisis is on the horizon...

[bottleHeD]

Reboots suck!!! Does this mean superman never died and the whole doomsday thing is hogwash??

[TTROY]

no it just mean that certain asspects of the character were tweaked but much of the main body of the stories have been left entact...
how they were tweaked and what is entact and what remains is up to how the writers portray the character in the main books.
but many people here are jumping to foregone conclusions.
based on a certain rabid fanboys rantings.

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by Kryptonsfinest
Even if they do tweak and change characters origins it doesn't have to change everything that has happend to the character since his origin. I think it is more important to focus on what the characters are doing now than what happend way back in history.

I think it's fun to at least know the character's history, but it shouldn't be a hindrance to the character's future. I think it's more dangerous to change the "feel" and "focus" of a hero than it is to erase some little tidbit from his past that doesn't necessarily define his character. I see that happening a lot more in comics than I'm comfortable with, and this change in characterization ... to me ... is more disturbing than changes in continuity.

I agree with Kryp -- I'd rather fight for better quality comics and characters today than worry about some piece of history.

[Jack Burton]

I think continuity is important but I don't think every little detai isl important. Like for example Dr. Doom has to try and contact his Mom and Reed Richards has to point out the error in his formula. If that didn't happen no Dr. Doom. No Dr. Doom well the FF is left fighting the Mole Man and that just sucks. But if people start bitching and moaning about something like how Reed and Ben no longer fought in WWII that's just stupid.

I say keep the parts that are essential or really good and don't worry about the rest.

[cncoyle]

Originally posted by Jack Burton
I say keep the parts that are essential or really good and don't worry about the rest.

PLEASE PUT THAT IN YOUR SIGNATURE!!!!
That is possibly the most concise and intelligent statement made about comic book continuity in the years I've been visiting this board.

Krypto as an abandoned puppy or Kryptonian pet--it doesn't matter! Lex can be a crazy scientist, a ruthless businessman or even President--it doesn't matter as long as he's EVIL! Lois with brown or black hair--who cares?!?

There are some things pretty much vital to the Superman mythos: Clark Kent, Krypton, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Daily Planet, Smallville, Metropolis, the S-Shield and a cape. Anything else is just a detail that can change as long as Superman remains a hero fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way (I'm talking 1930's idealism here, folks).

In my opinion, Dini & Timm created the best version of Superman yet. But I also enjoy Byrne's down-to-earth version. But yet, I also like the planet-moving Silver Age Supes! Even more, I like the Silver Age-redux by Loeb! Waitaminit--I also like the 1930's vigilante Superman (who needs the law when you've got justice)!

Not to get too Brainiac on everbody, but as long as they've got the "gestalt" of Superman, I'm gonna enjoy the story. The best example is Millar's Red Son. Millar changed one vital aspect of Superman's past--geography--yet he still "got" the idea behind Superman and made a damn fine Elseworlds story.

[Jack Burton]

Originally posted by cncoyle
In my opinion, Dini & Timm created the best version of Superman yet. But I also enjoy Byrne's down-to-earth version. But yet, I also like the planet-moving Silver Age Supes! Even more, I like the Silver Age-redux by Loeb! Waitaminit--I also like the 1930's vigilante Superman (who needs the law when you've got justice)!

[/b]

That's my favorite too. Krypton was a perfect mixture of Byrne's and the Silver Age version. Lex Luthor was awesome and they even figured out a great way to bring Supergirl back while maintaing Clark as the last Kryptonian. I really loved that show.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by cncoyle
I never would have the pleasure of a spectacular 80-issue run of Peter David's Supergirl (Best. Run. Ever.)

Sniff. Thanks. Sniff.

Love you.