LOVE, COMICS: LOVE THE WAY YOU LOVE

[MattBrady]

by Benjamin Ong Pang Kean

This week, love is in the air.

And Newsarama is also in the mood for love.

Kicking off a series of features focusing on some of the creators creating and working on romance comics today, we talked to Jamie S. Rich for his take on the romance genre in comics and his ongoing comic series, Love The Way You Love.

Newsarama: For those who’ve not been reading or following Love The Way You Love, it’s a rock ‘n roll soap opera centering on Tristan and Isobel, two individuals who found love while the latter was already engaged to another. We’ll get to the love trilogy bit in a moment, but let’s go back to the origin of the series. It’s heavily influenced by manga, especially shojo, and classic love stories like Tristan & Isolde and Romeo & Juliet, and classic movies like Roman Holiday, right? With three volumes out now, how has the market responded to Love The Way You Love?

Jamie S. Rich: Pretty well. The response I’ve gotten from actual readers has been extremely generous in its praise. It seems to be a book that people really connect to on a personal level. One of the highest compliments I’ve received was when someone told me that it reminded him of when he first met his wife, and the mixture of giddiness and anxiety that inspired. It’s one of those books that is picking up steam as it goes, buoyed by word of mouth.

NRAMA: Has it managed to reach the audience or the target group that you’d hoped to reach out to? Say, for example, the music lovers? Young couples? The Generation X demographic?

JSR: Yes on the first two, I dunno about the latter. As an alleged member of Generation X, that tag always confused me. I was always very outside with what my generation was supposed to be into, and I generally reacted against it. Plus, I’d much rather it feel timeless, and I think that [artist] Marc Ellerby actually bridges the gap with his art, between those people who might be my age (30s) and people who are his age (20s). If the book has any twangs of nostalgia, it’s really more about being young and full of possibility than it is about a specific time frame.

The music, too, I try to make more of a backdrop than an overly essential part of the story. Like, I don’t want it to be a book that you have to be a music fanatic to enjoy. Being in a band is Tristan’s job, that’s all. In future issues, we’re going to start to see more of Isobel’s dreams of being an artist, and as the supporting cast also gets more developed, their ambitions will be important, as well. I want the relationship issues to be up front more than anything.

NRAMA: In your opinion, has it met your own expectations when you first started the project? Did you achieve the goals that you’d set for yourself, creatively and personally?

JSR: Oh, most definitely. I’ve never worked on something open-ended before, so it’s been really fascinating to watch it grow, to explore and let the story develop. In fact, given some of the secondary relationships that are now starting to emerge in the story, it’s probably exceeded expectations. A lot of readers really like Branden, for instance, Isobel’s best friend, who was originally only created to be an agent of change, fulfilling the role of Isolde’s maid from the classic version of the story. Now she’s emerged as a favorite, including a favorite of mine and Marc’s.

Marc has also exceeded my expectations. I forgot what it was like to work with artists who were really on the cusp of developing their talent and seeing their skills emerge more and more over the course of a comic. I used to enjoy that as an editor, watching people like Chynna Clugston, Steve Rolston, and Brian Hurtt come into their own. Marc keeps me excited, and every batch of pages he sends, it’s like Christmas morning.

I’ve also been enjoying working on something that is unqualified in its happiness. Though it has the ups and downs of a soap opera rollercoaster, the trajectory of the characters is always going to remain up.

NRAMA: Does the present generation believe in love? After all, love and romance is as old as human, but with celebrities (and a big percentage of society) getting in and out of a relationship or a marriage as frequently as a person changes his/her shoes these days, and the strains of today's societal needs and lifestyles on the foundation and continuation of the (happy) marriage institution across the globe, how much more relevant is the feeling of love and the antics of romance in the world that we live in today?

JSR: I think there is still a desire for love out there. It’s still the dominant theme in most pop culture. Even if the movie or TV show or book isn’t strictly about love, if it’s a genre picture or whatever, there is almost always some kind of romantic subplot. I think you do touch on something, though. The question these days is permanence. Nothing is permanent, it’s all transient, it all gets pushed into the limelight and then shuffled off just as quick. I am in the copyedit phase of my next novel, Have You Seen the Horizon Lately?, and that actually comes up. My character posits that the reason romance is important is because we’re all looking for something we can hold on to in this life, something that will last even when we know everything else will fail us. In regards to the younger generation, PBS just did a special on what they called “Generation Next,” and they basically felt the same basic desires were there, for a good place in life and family and all that, but this new generation is not necessarily stuck on the idea that they have to find it right away. They want to explore first, but then eventually find something. So, short version of the long-winded answer: yes.

NRAMA: In the comics, the Fantastic Four's Reed and Sue are now separated, residents of the Marvel Universe are torn between two opposing sides… So, yeah, how is love and romance in the comic books then? Or is it war that make the world go round nowadays?

JSR: Well, I have to admit to my ignorance to what is going on in Civil War, but if the question of this relationship does exist, then love is definitely still an issue. It just has to fight to survive in war time. I imagine elsewhere love is the one thing that is keeping someone’s head above the chaos, and that other relationships continue. Otherwise, what a joyless comic book experience that must be! Also, if you ask how it is in “comic books”—well, manga and manwha are just other names for comics, and I script 3 or 4 volumes a month for TOKYOPOP and Ice Kunion, and every single one of them are concerned with relationships. Take the tights off, you’ll find you still have a heart beating underneath.

NRAMA: True. But aren’t people buying and reading super-hero comics because of their familiarization of the characters – the ones that they grew up with, the ones that they see in the movies? Seriously, how many people, especially the same group of fans, would instantly pick up a romance comic by, say, Mark Millar, Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns or Alan Moore… And no, Lost Girls doesn’t fall into the category of romance comics, mind you…!

JSR: Well, your preceding question just said “the comic books,” with no superhero qualifier, even if you used Reed and Sue as your example. I don’t believe you can just say “comic books” and have it mean superhero books, not anymore. If that’s the case, then you may have a point, but then it really depends on the creator. You disqualified Lost Girls, but look at the success of that. If people who read Top Ten aren’t buying it, who is? It certainly suggests to me that if people are willing to follow Alan Moore from ABC to a high-priced erotic comic book, they’d probably follow him for a less explicit love story. In a lot of ways, though, we’re also talking apples and oranges. You’d not compare an event movie to a smaller movie. Will less people go and see Jennifer Garner in Catch and Release who saw her in Elektra or even watched Alias? Is it fair to compare the two? Sure, less fans read Vinamarama, which was essentially a Grant Morrison romance book, than read his superhero titles, but at the same time, how many read him writing Batman and Superman not because it’s Grant, but because it’s Batman and Superman? How many are like me, and read Vinamarama but haven’t read anything he’s done with either of those other two characters?

Personally, I’d love to see all the guys you mentioned step out and do different genre things. I think Millar has with the MillarWorld books, and he’s had some good success there. Grant and Alan are all over the place. Wouldn’t you love to see a personal story by Geoff Johns? Maybe something autobiographical? I bet he could tap into a completely different audience if that was something he wanted to do. He’s one of those writers that I think makes his superhero wok personal to him and deals with issues important to his life, and if that satisfies his muse, then rock on. Removing the trappings of that genre may not even be necessary, I’d just be curious to see what might emerge.

I’m not against superhero comics, at all, either. I don’t want to see the comments thread fill up with people saying, “Why does Jamie S. Rich hate superheroes?” I actually read quite a few, and I’m even helping edit Madman Atomic Comics again for Mike Allred. It just feels like many comic book pundits seem to suggest that those of us doing other things have to defend our right to exist, and if you want me to defend, I have to counter with the fact that Love Hina sells more copies than superhero books. I am betting Fun Home and American Born Chinese are leaving the big event books in the dust. They may all be equal in quality, but there is a bigger world than what is dreamt of in the traditional comic book market, and that means there’s room for all of us.

NRAMA: That said, what is the appeal of romance comics over the years? I mean, super-hero comics keep on evolving, yet at the same time, if you think about it, it's always back to basics at the end of the day (and this, I'm sure is a debate for another day). But what makes romance comics endure the test of time, even though the output has somewhat diminished tremendously since the introduction of the Comics Code eons ago?

JSR: Because they are about human beings. Our concerns as individuals haven’t really changed all that much. We still want to be attractive to whatever gender is attractive to us, we still want to go to prom. We want to have kids and have someone who will understand us even in the darkest times. I mean, you might as well ask why 90% of pop songs are about two people falling for each other. Human beings get lonely. They’d rather have a kiss than a sock in the jaw.

NRAMA: So is there hope for romance comics then, or is the heyday of romance had long past?

JSR: That’s nonsense. It’s a myopic point of view. This goes back to what I was talking about a second ago. How popular is Nana? How popular is Fruits Basket? DC is starting their Minx line to appeal to the people who buy those books, not the cape-and-cowl set. I don’t think its superheroes that are enjoying the revival, anyway, not exclusively. It’s comics in general. If you look at the flashpoints in 2006 as far as mainstream culture noticing comics, I think it had a lot less to do with superheroes than it did with books like Pride of Baghdad and Fun Home, and, of course, it’s Naruto’s world, we just foolishly publish in it.

NRAMA: Women were and still are the major consumers of romance comics. And publishers are jumping on the bandwagon with DC launching its Minx line, Dark Horse and its Sexy Chix anthology, manga heavyweights getting into the shojo business… even creators like you, Tom Beland, and others are creating romance comics for all. Do you think that today's market as a whole is receptive to romance/love comics at all?

JSR: It seems like the actual question you ask is contradicted by your set-up here. If all of these publishers and creators are focusing on this genre, and focusing on reaching a female audience, then doesn’t it stand to reason that there is an audience? Tom Beland is very successful with his books, and I think he appeals to both sides of the gender aisle. Terry Moore has made a real go of it for years, as well. I know when I started working in comics, my basic argument about why women and people of ethnic backgrounds other than Caucasian weren’t reading comics is because no one was creating comics for them; the catch-22 was that until we got a more diverse creator base, those comics weren’t going to start getting made, and so we were left with no tools to entice these creators into our pool. That was the exciting thing about working with someone like Chynna Clugston, because she was doing comics that appealed to women, and she was doing it with a whole new language, something that I think is now really taking off with the manga boom. We have this whole influx of readers who have said, “I do like comics, I am not averse to the art form, just make some books that I can relate to.” Now we’re already seeing those readers turn around and create their own comic books, and it’s taking us back to the broad base of material that the Golden Age had. Manga is to comics what the Ramones were to U.S. music and the Sex Pistols to the U.K. in the ‘70s. It’s inspiring a whole generation to say, “I can do that.”

NRAMA: Super-heroics aside, how is this genre compared to the appeal of Western and War comics? Are they mutually exclusive? Why, or why not?

JSR: I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive. The love theme, like I’ve said, is the one thing you can inject into any genre and it will be at home. I think the difference with Westerns and War is that it requires a certain amount of nostalgia that people are less and less possessive of. You have to be in your 60s to remember WWII, for instance, and no one was around in frontier days. So, those genres in all art forms, even in movies, are going to probably remain more of an occasional thing than a regular thing. But just this past year, you had Scott Chantler’s Canadian pioneer book Northwest Passage published by Oni, and the Vietnam-era war comic The Other Side over at Vertigo, both of which have received a great response. Those are tough-fighting genres. They’ll hang in there. Not to mention we currently have our own war going on that will eventually be dissected by the arts. I can already think of one comic about the current conflict: War Fix.

NRAMA: Back to Love The Way You Love, the next digest sized volume is expected to hit in the first quarter of 2007?

JSR: March, I believe. Then June.

NRAMA: For those who’ve been following the series (and spoilers for those who’re only getting into or thinking of checking out the series, so do not continue reading past this point), Book 3 ended with Isobel calling it off with her fiancé, Marcus, and went straight into Tristan’s arms. Marcus, on the other hand, knew about the relationship all along and planned to make life a living hell for Tristan and his band, Like A Dog. History and literatures have taught us that love stories like this won’t have a happily ever ending for the lovebirds…

JSR: Actually, there are a couple of passages in my novel, The Everlasting, that answer this question, so people who read all of my stuff know where this story is going. It’s the journey that’s going to count, though, and even if it is fraught with peril, what doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger. And other clichés.

NRAMA: Apart from the romance between the lead characters, Love The Way You Love also tells of other supporting characters. What have you planned for each and everyone of them? How central a role are they going to play in the future volumes?

JSR: As I hinted at before, they will have a very active role. For those who have read #3, a new wrinkle has developed, a new crush has been revealed, and we’re going to get into that in #4. #4 has some of my favorite sequences, both with that relationship, and with the final pages, which I am so very much in love with. I gauge how the book is developing by how much it makes me clutch my own chest and sigh.

NRAMA: How far ahead have you plotted and scripted Love The Way You Love?

JSR: I’ve done a full script through #5, and I’ve got notes for #6 and #7 specifically, and ideas from there beyond. I’m actually working in threes. Every three issues I hope to have kind of a stopping point where I can reassess what is happening, check the state of the union, and then proceed from there. Three is the magic number, after all.

NRAMA: Finally, what's your Valentine's message for readers?

JSR: Don’t worry about who or how you love, just be kind to the people around you and follow your own passion. I know it sounds corny, but the corny stuff is often true. Plus, it’s Valentine’s Day, so we all get a free can of corn, anyway.

[EMeadow]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

by Benjamin Ong Pang Kean

This week, love is in the air.

And Newsarama is also in the mood for love.

Scariest too lines ever written on Newsarama about Newsarama.

LOCK UP YOUR MODEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[c_andrew_s]

I can't say enough good things about JSR and this book

[Illustr8r]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Manga is to comics what the Ramones were to U.S. music and the Sex Pistols to the U.K. in the ‘70s. It’s inspiring a whole generation to say, “I can do that.”

Yes, and poorly. Non-Asians who draw manga are the epitome of cultural self-loathing. The idea that the US comics industry is being co-opted of a bunch of artistic wiggers who have "Evangelion" on permanent loop on their video iPods is nothing short of tragic.

Although at least Marc Ellerby DOES make some pretense toward originality. Granted, the characters all have eyes like Hikaru Gosunkugi after sitting too close to the TV (except for the Evil Record Exec), but...

[MattBrady]

Originally Posted by Illustr8r

Yes, and poorly. Non-Asians who draw manga are the epitome of cultural self-loathing.

yup - either that or are now able to express themselves in a style that is not lockstep following the Swan-Adams-Golden-Lee paradigm, and as such, the larger comic book market which, eight to ten years ago, was closed to them, is now open.

One or the other.

and by "wiggers" you mean "white niggers" right? Just want to make sure I know what you're talking about. I'm not hip to the lingo tho -is the shortened form more culturally acceptable?

MattB

[head1a]

"when all of us are special, no one is"

While not agreeing in Illustr8r's choice of language or the idea that these artist are "culturally self loathing", the very idea of manga being the comic equivalent of punk as a " I can do that!" type of style is disturbing, because manga doesn't translate as "poorly drawn" comics. The overhyping of substandard artwork (especially with manga, where there are some tremendous artists) is a trend that needs to stop (note: I'm not saying everybody should draw the Marvel way) but whatever happened to pride in craftsmanship?


But I am very glad to see comics broadening it's horizons, it's the only way to pull in ignored readers.

[Tenebrare]

Sheesh! What is up with people constantly feeling the need to make these dumb cliques.
I enjoy manga and American and even European style comics all at the same level. Each of them has some really good examples and each has horrible stinkers. But none of the three are in general better than the other.
By stigmatising one medium, you're really only hurting yourself.

[J.S. Rich]

Originally Posted by head1a

the very idea of manga being the comic equivalent of punk as a " I can do that!" type of style is disturbing, because manga doesn't translate as "poorly drawn" comics.

The notion that the analogy translates somehow to calling anything "poorly drawn" is strictly something you and the other poster came up with on your own. It's a spirit of creation, with quality ranging across the board. To bend my words to anyone's anti-manga rhetoric is just silly.

Tenebrare and Matt Brady are right on.

[Ayo]

Racism can be fun.


ANYhow.

The punk analogy is apt. It's not about being "bad," it's about youthful energy and the inspiration to say "screw it, I'm starting my own band, no matter WHAT!"



Also, what a jerk, above! Art is cross cultural. Artists have travelled to distant lands for inspiration for years. Cultures have influenced one another for CENTURIES.

And finally, the term "wigger" is highly racist...toward black people. By pinning blacks into narrow (often negative) stereotypes and then casting eyes downward at whites who emulate these stereotypes and to add insult to injury, making a wordplay based on the most hateful word toward blacks...it's a spiral of racism against blacks all in one word. So don't say it, unless you're on your way to a cross burning, okay?


Viva la manga. Up the punks. Black power.

[head1a]

first and foremost I never intended to intone that manga is inherently "bad" or "poorly drawn" just that in my opinion these pages aren't that great, perhaps my comment didn't make this apparent, if so that's my fault, but if disagreeing with people's opinions in a civilized manner and defending craftsmanship makes me an elitist then I'm an elitist. And no I was not bending your words, your analogy is correct I just think that punk is not so great, mainly because again it's displays little craftsmanship. These are my opinions and that's all they are, we don't see eye to eye on the idea if craft or intent is more important and that's fine. As stated before I am very glad to see an expansion of genres in comics but this art is not my cup of tea.

P.S.: I am Benjamin Phillips ( a professional comic artist) , so that it's apparent that I am not hiding behind a screen name to shoot "venom" at folks, I am simply stating my opinion.

[J.S. Rich]

That's all well and good, Benjamin; however, I would never have thought you were talking about Marc's pages specifically in your original because (1) Marc doesn't even make the pretense to have a manga style, and (2) you basically said "manga" and didn't refer to anything specific. Thus, it appeared you were making a sweeping generalization. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I didn't see where you were coming from, in all honesty.

I disagree with any contention that Marc doesn't display craftsmanship. He puts a lot of craft into his work, and a lot of work into his craft. But then again, you still think punk displays a lack of craft, when classically, punk is just as broad a term as manga. The Jam and the Clash, for instance, were part of the late '70s punk wave, and both bands showed incredible craft. Like Marc, they might have at times cultivated a raw style, but sometimes didaction of style is a lot harder to achieve than complicated detail. As a writer, I'd say it's harder to write like Hemingway than someone more flowery.

Anyway, to each his own.

[head1a]

I have to agree with about my first post being vague and can see how it would be read as a blanket statement, I will certainly take more care with how I word my posts, the main reason I even posted was that Illustr8r's post was so racist and seemed like such a personal attack on artists who have manga influence (many of my friends do) that I had to say something, glad to see that's not the norm with posters.