COURT: LEE OWED MARVEL MOVIE MONEY

[MattBrady]

Following up on the lawsuit filed by Stan Lee in November of 2002, Marvel today announced that it had received a decision on the partial summary judgment motions made by Lee and Marvel in Lee’s litigation against Marvel. In his lawsuit, Lee claimed that Marvel owed him millions of dollars due to its “shameful scheme” in which Marvel reneged on its deal with Lee to pay him 10% of profits earned from Hollywood films based on Marvel characters.

The deal is written into Lee’s employment agreement with Marvel ($1 million a year), and reads:

“f) In addition, you shall be paid participation equal to 10% of the profits derived during your life by Marvel (including subsidiaries and affiliates) from the profits of any live action or animation television or movie (including ancillary rights) productions utilizing Marvel characters. This participation is not to be derived from the fee charged by Marvel for the licensing of the product or of the characters for merchandise or otherwise. Marvel will compute, account and pay to you your participation due, if any, on account of said profits, for the annual period ending each March 31 during your life, on an annual basis within a reasonable time after the end of each such period.”

According to Marvel’s statement, the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York has sided with Lee, and ruled that he is entitled to 10% of the profits Marvel has received since November 1998, “for the right to produce and distribute motion pictures and television productions based on Marvel's characters, and from movie-based toys manufactured and sold by Marvel itself.”

Marvel states that the court rejected Lee’s claim to monies received by Marvel from thirds party licensees of movie-based merchandise.

From Marvel: The court did not rule on Mr. Lee's claim that he is entitled to participate in profits from Marvel's joint venture with Sony relating to Spider-Man movie merchandise or profits from Marvel's international Hulk movie merchandise licensing program with Universal Studios. The court stated that these matters will have to be resolved by a jury.

John Turitzin, Marvel's General Counsel, said, "We intend to appeal those matters on which we did not prevail and to continue to contest vigorously the claims on which the court did not rule. We do not expect this decision to have an effect on our financial guidance for 2004, 2005 or our future prospects."

[LabRatMan]

Stan Lee deserves the money.
Especially with Marvel charging 3 bucks a comic now, they certainly have bled us enough to pay him.
Or they will use this as an excuse to raise the prices even higher.....either way, I'm just glad to see that they have to fork over some money for a change.

[Zeitgeist]

I love Stan, but he allready gets 1 million a year for just being alive, im not quite sure Marvel owes him anything

[solid-one-love]

Sadly, Lee will never see a cent.

While the movie profits are on the books up to the previous fiscal year, line profit is easy to hide (which is why smart folks try to get a cut of the gross). So there'll be no profit at all for Lee based on future projects, as Marvel will make it look as if all future projects are unprofitable.

And the moneys he would have received for previous years will be appealed until long after his death, after which his estate will likely agree to a settlement amounting to a tiny fraction of what Lee would have received.

[cncoyle]

If Stan were really classy, he'd distribute (or leave it in his will if it takes too long) half to a third of the profits he receives to the families of Kirby, Ditko and other co-creators of these characters.

[qtzar]

Stan Lee co created these characters.without him there would be no Marvel U like the one we enjoy right now.Im sick of the little guy always getting beat.put yourself in the same shoes if you created Spiderman/Superman, and you got beat like these guys usually do.you would be sick forever.In fact i think all the old contracts that were made where the creators got nothing while others got multi million empires should be looked at and let in for a piece of the pie.put yourself in their shoes

[Moonbeam]

Reading all these dollar signs, I just have to ask. Is the old guy available?

[Noreikas]

Stan Lee co-created Spider-Man, who starred in two highly-successful movies. He co-created the X-Men team (and the characters of Prof. X, Cyclops, Iceman, Magneto, and Toad) which had two successfuol movies. He co-created Daredevil and the Fantastic Four (more movies).

He definitely deserve his share. The million dollar salary from Marvel is a separate issue.

Now - the question is, does Stan Lee have a legal leg to stand on. He co-created these characters in a work-for-hire situation, so legally he may not be able to collect the money.

But morally, he should get his share.

Too many of the comic book creators have been screwed over (Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Bill Finger, just to name a few). These people created characters we all enjoy, characters who have made millions for their respective companies. The creators deserve some as well.

[DarkJared]

Originally posted by cncoyle
If Stan were really classy, he'd distribute (or leave it in his will if it takes too long) half to a third of the profits he receives to the families of Kirby, Ditko and other co-creators of these characters.

Yeah but he's not so he won't.

Marvel doesnt owe him squat. Lee was paid a wage at the time of his original employment to create characters. He did and Marvel paid him what they agreed to then. Why does he need further compensation? That'd be like any other retired guy going back to all his previous employers over the last 60 years and saying they owed him wages compensated for today's minimum wage for work done then. It's ridiculous.

If your job is "to create new characters for Marvel Comics" then whatever you create is owned by Marvel Comics, not yourself as you were paid by them to do it. You didn't create them first and then sell them to Marvel. He did his job and should go away now.

In THIS case though Marvel does stupidly owe him money because they wrote it into his contract but as mentioned above it's easy to hide profits so he will likely not see as much as he's legally entitled according to the contract. Although while fighting post-bankruptcy, Marvel's own press releases hyped the high profitability of their movies and toys divisions for investors. It will be hard to hide anything in the past and will it be worth downplaying profits just so they don't have to pay his 10% at the risk of alienating investors and stock holders?

Marvel should stand on the strength of their characters and cut Lee loose. Drop the "Stan Lee Presents" from all their books and leave him out of any future movies.

[qtzar]

your funny Beamer....im a straight male and i was asking the same question

[vanderwolff]

Originally posted by cncoyle
If Stan were really classy, he'd distribute (or leave it in his will if it takes too long) half to a third of the profits he receives to the families of Kirby, Ditko and other co-creators of these characters.

Well put. As iconic a figure as Stan Lee may be, the true marrow (Kirby, Ditko, et al) of the modern Marvel mythology lie largely forgotten, in financial terms. It's hard to read stories like this without having to having to suppress a wave of revulsion.

[qtzar]

Originally posted by DarkJared
Yeah but he's not so he won't.

Marvel doesnt owe him squat. Lee was paid a wage at the time of his original employment to create characters. He did and Marvel paid him what they agreed to then. Why does he need further compensation? That'd be like any other retired guy going back to all his previous employers over the last 60 years and saying they owed him wages compensated for today's minimum wage for work done then. It's ridiculous.

If your job is "to create new characters for Marvel Comics" then whatever you create is owned by Marvel Comics, not yourself as you were paid by them to do it. You didn't create them first and then sell them to Marvel. He did his job and should go away now.

In THIS case though Marvel does stupidly owe him money because they wrote it into his contract but as mentioned above it's easy to hide profits so he will likely not see as much as he's legally entitled according to the contract. Although while fighting post-bankruptcy, Marvel's own press releases hyped the high profitability of their movies and toys divisions for investors. It will be hard to hide anything in the past and will it be worth downplaying profits just so they don't have to pay his 10% at the risk of alienating investors and stock holders?

Marvel should stand on the strength of their characters and cut Lee loose. Drop the "Stan Lee Presents" from all their books and leave him out of any future movies.

im sure your hypocrite.if you created something that had generated Billions while you made comparitively nothing, you would be at a lawyers office quicker than it would take you to look in a dictionary to see how to spell hypocrite

[Noreikas]

Stan Lee co-created Spider-Man, who starred in two highly-successful movies. He co-created the X-Men team (and the characters of Prof. X, Cyclops, Iceman, Magneto, and Toad) which had two successfuol movies. He co-created Daredevil and the Fantastic Four (more movies).

He definitely deserve his share. The million dollar salary from Marvel is a separate issue.

Now - the question is, does Stan Lee have a legal leg to stand on. He co-created these characters in a work-for-hire situation, so legally he may not be able to collect the money.

But morally, he should get his share.

Too many of the comic book creators have been screwed over (Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Bill Finger, just to name a few). These people created characters we all enjoy, characters who have made millions for their respective companies. The creators deserve some as well.

[divebomb]

Originally posted by DarkJared
Yeah but he's not so he won't.

Marvel doesnt owe him squat. Lee was paid a wage at the time of his original employment to create characters. He did and Marvel paid him what they agreed to then. Why does he need further compensation? That'd be like any other retired guy going back to all his previous employers over the last 60 years and saying they owed him wages compensated for today's minimum wage for work done then. It's ridiculous.

Normally I'd agree with you if he was claiming it after the fact but Marvel Wrote it into his contact. They offered he accepted. Now its time to pay!

[cactusmaac]

Originally posted by solid-one-love
Sadly, Lee will never see a cent.

While the movie profits are on the books up to the previous fiscal year, line profit is easy to hide (which is why smart folks try to get a cut of the gross). So there'll be no profit at all for Lee based on future projects, as Marvel will make it look as if all future projects are unprofitable.

And the moneys he would have received for previous years will be appealed until long after his death, after which his estate will likely agree to a settlement amounting to a tiny fraction of what Lee would have received.

Yeah.

What the heck was Stan doing hiring such incompetent advisers?

Profit's pretty much a fictional figure.

You ask for cuts of the gross.

[Erik K]

I love that "shameful scheme"! Stan will continue to alliterate to the grave. It sounds like something from the old Bullpen notes

[Paladin]

Now only if Marvel could repay all us poor idiotic schmucks who lost money when they went bankrupt.



Stupid! Stupid!

[GCom]

If Stan Lee 'created' these iconic Marvel characters (and I'm not disputing that he did), why does he get a huge payday off every movie, and not his co-creators?

Does Steve Ditko get a big check for the Spider-Man movies?
Nope.

Does (if he were still alive) Jack Kirby get a wad of change for X-Men movies?
Nuh-uh.

Stan Lee wrote the contracts for Marvel back in the day, and he's known for having not treated his workmates too well when it came to such, while ensuring he got the lion's share.

I can't see Stan 'the man' Lee driving up to whever Steve Ditko currently lives, knocking on his door, and handing Steve a stack of green with a hearty "Steve, we did good. We made something that's given joy to millions of people...and we got paid doing it. Here's your share."

Anybody else remember when Marvel released Stan Lee from his million a year contract, which is why we suddenly were blessed with the 'Just Imagine Stan Lee Creating..." from DC? Ugh.



With Tolerance For The Truth...

GCom

[tricksterpup]

Did anyone really read the article?

“f) In addition, you shall be paid participation equal to 10% of the profits derived during your life by Marvel (including subsidiaries and affiliates) from the profits of any live action or animation television or movie (including ancillary rights) productions utilizing Marvel characters. This participation is not to be derived from the fee charged by Marvel for the licensing of the product or of the characters for merchandise or otherwise. Marvel will compute, account and pay to you your participation due, if any, on account of said profits, for the annual period ending each March 31 during your life, on an annual basis within a reasonable time after the end of each such period.”

Its a contract and Marvel has not coughed up their portion of the money. I do not blame Stan Lee for doing a contract like this. Hell, If I could get a Million a year for just being me, I would do it in a heart beat and so would every one here.
As for the Movies, heck, the X-men and Spider-man alone have made a boat load of money. I am not sure if Men in Black fall under this or not. I am not sure when the contract was written. But if the contract states that he should get 10% of the Profits, he should get it.

[Endocrine]

Wow DarkJarhead... you're sure in a pissy mood! Did you accidentally wipe your butt with sandpaper again?

What's with the big teardown with Stan Lee? I think you've pretty much forgotten that without Stan, Marvel would be a far distant memory. Stan built Marvel into a major powerhouse. Sure, Stan did this as a 'work for hire', and had no financial interest in the company (other than a salary). But you know what, while other publishers were going under by the bucketfulls during the 1950's, Stan stuck by Marvel. There would be no Spider-Man, no X-Men, no Hulk, no Daredevil, and no Fantastic Four without Stan.

But, so what?

As you say Jarhead, Marvel "stupidly" wrote a contract with Mr. Lee, giving him 10% of the movie and movie character profits, and now you think they don't owe him a cent?

You remind me of Stephen Hawking. Both of you think you're smart, but neither one of you make a hell of a lot of sense!

Stan Lee doesn't need Marvel, but Marvel needs Stan Lee! Don't you get it? That's why they wrote this idiotic contract that they're trying to get out of! They used Stan as a "crutch" during their bankruptcy, to generate movie deals and to promote the Marvel image. And now they have some money thanks mainly to Stan's producing efforts, instead of the gratitute they've written into a legally binding contract, you suggest that they turn him loose?

Yeah, Stan should get a hell of a lot more compensation that he's been given. And yes, he should split those profits with his co-creators. Steve Ditko, who Neal Adams has told me is a broken down old man confined to a wheelchair, should be compensated for his efforts at co-creating Spider-Man, regardless of the 'work for hire' basis! Jack Kirby, Marv Wolfman, John Romita, Chris Claremont, Len Wein... and many others, all should be compensated for the characters they've co-created for the "Marvel movies"!

And Jarhead, next time switch to Cottonelle. You'll feel a lot better!

[mavinga]

This is what happens when you try to milk someone's creations for decades.

Give Stan his dues, it's time for new characters and more genres.

[Michael P]

Originally posted by GCom
If Stan Lee 'created' these iconic Marvel characters (and I'm not disputing that he did), why does he get a huge payday off every movie, and not his co-creators?

Does Steve Ditko get a big check for the Spider-Man movies?
Nope.

Does (if he were still alive) Jack Kirby get a wad of change for X-Men movies?
Nuh-uh.

Well, as you pointed out, Jack's dead. But even if he were alive, he wouldn't get the money unless he'd brokered the same kind of post-creation deal with Marvel Stan did.

Stan's not owed this money because of any of the work he did (or didn't do) in the 60's, at least not in the strictest sense. He's owed it because he was smart enough to broker this deal when Marvel made him Publisher Emeritus or whatever in the 80's or 90's (I can't remember which, but it was well after he'd stopped writing or editing for the company). And he got that opportunity becausehe stuck around and played the game while Kirby and Ditko went and did other stuff.

As for whether or not Kirby or Ditko could argue their way into some rights today, Marvel would probably settle with them if they raised a stink. Kirby most likely would be doing it, probably alongside his old partner Joe Simon. Ditko, I don't think he particularly wants it.

[MadBandit]

Originally posted by GCom
If Stan Lee 'created' these iconic Marvel characters (and I'm not disputing that he did), why does he get a huge payday off every movie, and not his co-creators?

Does Steve Ditko get a big check for the Spider-Man movies?
Nope.

Does (if he were still alive) Jack Kirby get a wad of change for X-Men movies?
Nuh-uh.

Stan Lee wrote the contracts for Marvel back in the day, and he's known for having not treated his workmates too well when it came to such, while ensuring he got the lion's share.

I can't see Stan 'the man' Lee driving up to whever Steve Ditko currently lives, knocking on his door, and handing Steve a stack of green with a hearty "Steve, we did good. We made something that's given joy to millions of people...and we got paid doing it. Here's your share."

Anybody else remember when Marvel released Stan Lee from his million a year contract, which is why we suddenly were blessed with the 'Just Imagine Stan Lee Creating..." from DC? Ugh.



With Tolerance For The Truth...

GCom

Are you clueless or what? First of all, Ditko hasn't bitched about wanting money. He's obviously happy he gets credit for co-creating Spiderman on the first film. As for Kirby, maybe he wasn't the "showman" Stan is. For both, it was a work-for-hire situation. That means if you work for a company and you created a product/character under their supervision, they own the creation.

Sure, some people are pissed about Frank Miller not getting initial credit on "Elektra" (he and Marvel differ over the character's direction), but after the movie's poor reception at the box office, I wouldn't give two shits and a piss about the film if I were Miller (Working on Sin City: The Motion Picture seems to satisfy him).

Stan deserves the money. And at least he fought for it.

[GCom]

Can anyone name any Marvel character that Stan Lee created SOLO (as in all by himself) that is still around today, and generates money for Marvel?

If anyone can, let's compare that to how many co-created characters/teams Stan Lee had a hand in, that are still bringing in capital.

Stan built Marvel into a major powerhouse. Sure, Stan did this as a 'work for hire', and had no financial interest in the company (other than a salary). But you know what, while other publishers were going under by the bucketfulls during the 1950's, Stan stuck by Marvel.

That's true. Stan saw the writing on the wall about a coming crackdown on crime and horror comics, and made some prudent decisions. Check out the history of the Comcis Code Authority and see what hand Stan had in that (somewhat behind the scenes).

I give credit to Stan for being able to write himself some great contracts, and get himself huge paychecks for the rest of his life. I'd go for that myself. I just find it hard to stand behind this man, especially since most artists at the time knew nothing about contracts, and Stan took advantage of that. Many comic artists/writers are terrible businessmen.

Anyone know if Stan donates or supports ACTOR?



With Tolerance For Legalese...

GCom

[pah25]

But are Marvel still waiting for money from those c*** su***** called sony?