MATT WAGNER ON GRENDEL'S 25TH

[MattBrady]

Next year – a franchise turns 25. Not just any franchise – one that’s proven to be successful in the long term, and at all times, has strayed under the tight control of its creator. We’re talking about Matt Wagner’s Grendel.

We caught up with Wagner to talk about his plans for the property in ’07.

Newsarama: So, probably the easiest way to start off – what’s planned for the anniversary?

Matt Wagner: We've got a lot of stuff planned. Right out of the gate – although you should probably put a “tentatively” in front of everything you’re going to hear about, we'll be doing an Art of Grendel book similar to The Art of Sin City and The Art of Usagi Yojimbo. We'll also be doing a new hardcover edition of Devil by the Deed, because it’s been out of print for a while. We're probably going to be re-issuing the Black, White & Red trades in a leather slipcase edition—both volumes in one slipcase. And then, I’m going to be doing a whole new Hunter Rose adventure that I’m going to write and draw myself, most likely in manga format.

: A “manga” format?

MW: Yeah. I’ve never done anything in that format.

NRAMA: What do you mean by “manga format?”
An Eastern feel to your art?

MW: No, no…just in the format. It won't look like Devil by the Deed, but it won’t look like a manga. It’s mostly in regards to size, and we'll see how that affects my storytelling. I'm not particularly going for a distinct anime look.

Also, pretty much everything Grendel is going to go back into print. Some volumes have been out of print for a while.

And then of course, we just finalized our movie deal with Warner Bros. In fact, I just got back from my initial meeting with the producer yesterday. It’s John Wells, who is most famous for producing ER and The West Wing. I came away very impressed with both Wells and his team. The energy for the project looks good.

NRAMA: [What’s your involvement with that going to be?

MW: I think the official title will be “creative consultant”. I have a lot of high hopes, considering that two of Dark Horse’s other auteur books, Sin City and Hellboy were so faithful to their source. I think that sets a good precedent that people would follow, since they both made a substantial amount of dough.

NRAMA: Now, going back into the history of the character, yYou created Hunter Rose when you were how old?

MW: I was about his age, so 19.

NRAMA: At that time, Hunter was very much a vehicle for you, personally, right?

MW: Sure, my own teenage angst.

NRAMA: And now? How do you relate to him?

MW: The neat thing is that Grendel turned into a much wider vehicle for me too, at almost every stage of my life. Now, granted, It’s not like I didn't already have another vehicle at every stage in my life (little tale about a guy in a black and white t-shirt), but I'm a Libra, so naturally--I have two. So, with Grendel, at every stage of my life, I could address some new societal situation that I observed. In the instance of the Christine Spar story, I had been dating a woman for a while and we'd broken up and then we’d later gotten back together. Anyway she had a child in the interim with somebody else, and so for the first time I got to see up close and first hand that fierce protective maternal instinct.

Later, after we broke up, and through a variety of situations in my life, I got to examine what it felt like to be very lonely in a city, which was the Brian story; then I married into a big Catholic family, which led to God and the Devil, so every stage has been an opportunity to look around and say something about the world.

NRAMA: Whereas Mage?

MW: Is looking inside, and saying something about me.

NRAMA: Gong back to the movie for a moment, that’s the “second” Grendel, Christine Spar’s story, right?

MW: Yeah. When they first stated pitching me that idea, I was fairly resistant to it, because I thought any Grendel film should, of course, start with Hunter Rose. But once they started pitching it, I realized that Christine is a much more sympathetic character and that consideration, coupled with the fact that Hunter’s presence runs so strongly throughout her story, enables the film to introduce Grendel both as character and a concept at the same time. You get to the end of the first movie in such a way that the next one would obviously be the Hunter story--the prequel.

And the nice thing about Grendel as a franchise is that, unlike something like Spider-Man or the X-Men, where you really want the same stars back, you want the same creative team with the director and such, that’s not the case with Grendel. You can literally reinvent it ever single time. New star, new director, new approach. I think that’s a great strength for the series.

NRAMA: Speaking of the overall series, with Grendel as it stands now - from Hunter to Prime and later, is that the full scope of the Grendel body? Is there a continuation after Prime for you, or is that if you have a desire to scratch the Grendel itch, you have spots to fill in here and there?

MW: There aren't many fill in stories per se but the story I'm going to do, the Hunter Rose story that I'm doing, has something to do with the larger picture, but I not really gonna go into that yet.

NRAMA: Something of a bridge between the early days and what is to come?

MW: Yeah—something of a harbinger of that.

And Greg Rucka and I are talking about doing more of the illustrated novels that began with Past Prime, which would be more of the adventures of Grendel Prime and Susan. Speaking of that --Greg can't get around to do another novel just yet, so we're probably going to do a collection of Grendel Prime prose short stories next year. These would be authored by a variety of different writers, and I would do one or two illustrations for each.

NRAMA: To hear you talk about your development and management of Grendel as a franchise, it begs a James Tipton-esque question - does the 19 year old Matt Wagner ever show up in your head? If so, what does he say?

MW: If he does, it’s with a sense of satisfaction. More satisfaction then regret, for sure. I mean, you always look back with a little wistfulness to the ferocious energy of those early days, the raw, untapped potential. But all in all, I’ve never been one to look back on regret with stuff.

There’s this common misconception that I don't reprint those early Comico black and white Grendel stories because I'm ashamed of them. That couldn't be further from the truth. That’s like saying I'm ashamed that I was once 13 or that I was once 22 or that I was once 31. I'm not. That story was later retold, re-done, and finished as Devil by the Deed. I just feel that it would be a little whoreish to reprint my early, incomplete work, just basically for the sake of a buck. I understand why people want to see it, and I’ve always said that I'd think about it as I got older, and maybe the 25th anniversary is a good enough reason to do it--I don't know. Maybe it is a good time to honor it in that fashion, to show everything that led up to where the character is now.

But I just haven't felt the need to reprint it, because it’s incomplete and I'm all about the story. If the story doesn't come to the end I intended it to, then it’s not the whole story. I have similar feelings about The Aerialist. It’s never seen a reprinting, because it’s unfinished as well.

Similarly, I take the same approach when people want to commission me for private pieces of artwork. Often, they're wiling to pay big bucks, but I'm very reticent to do it because I'm not that sort of artist. I want an audience. I don't want to spend time on something that’s going to disappear into the coffers of a private collector.

NRAMA: When you said the one thing you can look back on in Devil by the Deed is the emotion, the energy, the angst that you were able to put into it when you were 19?when you go back and revisit Hunter Rose, do you need to make an effort to catch that feeling again as you get older?

MW: Actually, I find he’s a little more evil every time I go back to him.

NRAMA: Where does that come from?

MW: Well, obviously it’s maturity. I don't see him as this shining dash of coolness. I see him as this twisted, nasty psychotic fuck. I can still make him sleek and cool and impressive, but when you peel back the layers of the onion, the rot underneath comes through.

NRAMA: That came across pretty clearly in your Black, White & Red stories…your feelings about him had clearly changed from the days of Devil by the Deed…

MW: Yeah, in Devil by the Deed you’re very much on his side…

NRAMA: Right - he almost didn’t have a choice in that first story, but you come to realize that no, he made this choice, willingly.

MW: Yeah, and he’s absolutely amoral. He has his little pangs of conscience, but they're very few and far between.

NRAMA: Last thing, to touch on another of your franchises, what’s going on with Mage III? Have you lived enough to start putting it to paper?

MW: Yeah, I've lived enough (laughs). It’s probably going to happen after the 25th anniversary of Grendel. But since Mage 2, I preface anything about it by saying that I really don't have that much control over Mage. Grendel’s all about control—HA!-- surprise, surprise. Mage is all about inspiration. I can't really decide when I’m going to work on Mage. Mage decides when I'm going to work on Mage.

It was that way with Mage 2 --it lingered for so long, and all of a sudden, I knew…hey, now was the time that I had to do it.

NRAMA: Is it something you approach piecemeal, that is, you find yourself taking notes with the header “Don't forget this for Mage 3?”

MW: Not really. Mage isn't like anything else I work on. I don't write anything out, I don't do any layouts; I sit down with blank boards and just start drawing. I let it take me where it wants to go. That’s not to say I don't know where I kind of want it to go, eventually, but I try to clear my mind of that preconception, and just let it wander. As a result, I'm always happy that it’s coherent as it is. I mean, it should be an utter mess (laughs).

NRAMA: It should be something that you just share with your therapist…

MW: Right. “Look at this, Doc. This is the part where I woke up screaming.”

[cleazer]

Grendel is the best non-Marvel or DC character of the past 3 decades!

I'll be picking up those Grendel hardcovers, and I'm really looking forward to more new Grendel stories.

[Kotus]

I was thinking just the other day that it would be great if Grendel got the kind of deluxe treatment that Sin City is getting with the slipcased hardcovers. This announcement isn't quite the same thing but there will be some hardcovers and slipcased editions and most importently all the work will be in print again. I can't wait!

Now if only Hellboy would follow suit.

[sequart]

Grendel movie???

[jonjesper]

I named my son after Hunter Rose

[Chris Pitzer]

Congrats to Matt and everyone who has worked on Grendel. To have an idea like this survive in this market for 25 years is saying something.

[Michael C Lorah]

Where Matt Wagner creates, I follow. It's just that simple.

I can't wait for more Grendel, Mage, Batman or even a conclusion to the Aerialist. (I'm similarly looking forward to this anniversary as an excuse to finally purchase collections of the handful of Grendel projects that I don't already own.)

[Kenro]

Originally posted by Michael C Lorah
Where Matt Wagner creates, I follow. It's just that simple.

I can't wait for more Grendel, Mage, Batman or even a conclusion to the Aerialist. (I'm similarly looking forward to this anniversary as an excuse to finally purchase collections of the handful of Grendel projects that I don't already own.)

Awesome news. I'm a huge fan of Grendel and Wagners work. And I'm glad he's doing a hardcover of devil by the deed which is to me one of the best designed books ever (very art deco-ish pages. Not your standard looking books).

I wonder if he'll ever do a sequel to Devil's Quest? I don't think he's done one but I'd love to know what the future holds for Grendel Prime.

[Fletcher]

More Grendel? More Hunter Rose? A movie? I think my body is tingling..no...it is..it's tingling all over.
However I think that there was a miss print on the anniversy year. 25 years? that can not be right because that would mean I'm..........oh god...I'm getting old.

[implikian]

C-R-A-Z-Y D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S...!

one of the very best writer-artists and his most interesting creation... cause for celebration, indeed...

for those who are "allergic" towards anything non-DC/non-Marvel, shame on you...! just try this, come on...!

cheers...

[mrhelm]

This all has me very, very excited. I've been a fan of Grendel since discovering Warchild as a TPB in high school.

The only depressing thing is waiting another year to see all this come to fruition.

[lobocomics]

Loved the Grendel War Child mini, and that Grendel/Batman two issues are a sweeet little thing to see...

[samnoir]

Great news about the Grendel movie. Hopefully if it does become a franchise that features a different Grendel each outing, it won't go the way of the Crow movies.

Nice to see that all the Grendel material is coming back into print. I wonderr if it will be in the same size smaller format as the recent Sin City and Concrete trades?

___________________________________

FRANK CHO RARE BOOK and MAGAZINE for sale on EBAY! SHANNA UNCENSORED ARTWORK! SIGNED LTD ED.

CHRISTOPHER REEVE SUPERMAN THE MOVIE and SMALLVILLE book and magazines for sale on EBAY!!!!

[Spaz_Monkey]

It was such an honor meeting Matt at WonderCon. I was introduced to Grendel wil the Grendel?Batman books, and beca,e an instant fan. You have no idea how blown away I was when he not only signed my Grendel Tales book, but also sketched a quick Grendel on the cover.
To see an independant character thriving like this for 25 years is a terrific thing indeed!

[Nighttech]

I have an old Comics Buyer's Guide article with Wagner and in the article he said the Grendel spirit or force that inhabited Hunter Rose has not inhabid another Grendel yet and it would be 20-something before it would again. If he remebers this I wonder if we will see a new Grendel past Grendel-Prime?

[J.D. Lombardi]

Excellent interview with a guy who still doesn't get enough recognition in the business.

Grendel is near and dear to my heart and I've got every original issue that has ever come out. I'm a completist for this character with all the statues, lunchboxes, etc...hearing about the upcoming festivities just makes me smile since work on the franchise is sparse at best.

Grendel movie? I can't WAIT!

[Koben Kelly]

Matt Wagner is a comic genius. His mind has so many wonderful creative instincts, I can't imagine why his creative output is not held in higher acclaim. I was in high school when Mage with the Grendel backups was coming out, and his artistic style greatly influenced my attempts at drawing. Getting a page from Mage II, and having him personalize it for me at a Mid-Ohio Con was akin to meeting a President. Even though I still am quite in love with the style of his art from the late 80s, his new style (which seems quite influenced by Bernie Mirault) does the trick just fine. I am looking forward to Hollywood's treatment of the Devil, with hopes that Matt will be involved to the degree that Frank Miller and Mike Mignola were with their films.

Congrats on the first 25, Matt!

Thanks
---Koben

[8leggedfreak]

Great to hear, although I'm not looking forward to waiting another year for this. New Grendel books are a good thing.

I'd love to see a continuation of the storyline from where it last left off, or perhaps some more Grendel Tales featuring some of the newer comics stars who've come along in the last few years.

This Art of Grendel book will look pretty snappy next to my Art of Sin City and Art of Hellboy!

[LikeaPhoenix]

Spider-Man's black costume or Grendel? I hate it when comic book characters look like another.

[skiteman]

If MATT is writing AND drawing ANYTHING Grendel.....I'm in!

[Michael C Lorah]

Any chance that this anniversary will provide an excuse to FINALLY collect both Batman/Grendel series? (C'mon DC. We know you've gotta protect Batsy, but surely you can give Matt Wagner the freedom to reprint those handful of specific comics for a pittance of a fee!!)
Or perhaps we might even see a trade of Diana Schutz and Tim Sale's excellent Devil Child series (maybe mixed in with some other short stories?)?

[ElijahSnowFan]

Originally posted by Michael C Lorah
Where Matt Wagner creates, I follow. It's just that simple.

I can't wait for more Grendel, Mage, Batman or even a conclusion to the Aerialist. (I'm similarly looking forward to this anniversary as an excuse to finally purchase collections of the handful of Grendel projects that I don't already own.)

...every word of this post is so true.

Comico...man, that company, when it was publishing Bill Willingham's Elementals and Wagner's Grendel...

What a company.

[EmeraldGuy32]

Grendel reminds me of a black/white Iron Spidey

[Freddie Kemp]

a War Child slipcase would be very very nice.. amybe a new Bisley tip in or dust jacket? *drool*

[Koben Kelly]

Originally posted by EmeraldGuy32
Grendel reminds me of a black/white Iron Spidey

BLASPHEMY!!

Thanks
---Koben