ERIC STEPHENSON: WEATHERING THE STORM

[MattBrady]

We’ve spoken with Image’s Eric Stephenson as a writer and as the Executive Director, now; we hit him up for his views as a member of the larger comics community.

Safe to say, comics haven’t seen such an all-out, pitched battle for market share as well as the hearts and minds of readers between Marvel and DC as is has in 2005 for years. Metaphorically, both companies are firing their biggest guns at one another, releasing week after week of books that they hope will be both commercial and critical successes, striking chords of support from both retailers and readers, causing the parties to, respectively, continue ordering and continue reading.

Continuing the warfare comparison, we’ve also seen old weapons dusted off and employed in battle – marketing gimmicks and geegaws such as alternate covers, alternate issues, retailer incentive covers, and, with Justice #1 retailer incentive chatchkis, a Superman action figure only available if a set number of copies of #1 were ordered.

From the market’s front line, it’s been a pretty bloody summer. In terms of a forecast, trenches have been dug, and this battle is showing no signs of ending, but rather, will continue through the fall and winter.

Beating this warfare analogy to death, what of the smaller countries? There’s a hell of a lot of collateral damage when large powers fight. In short, how does a smaller publisher like Image not only view the battle between comics’ giants, but what’s its strategy for survival, and not becoming the aforementioned collateral damage? Or – as some have suggested, is there even damage to smaller publishers?

That’s what we sat down with Stephenson to talk about this time.

Newsarama: For better or worse, we’re in a summer of big scale events from the major publishers. Have you seen a discernable effect on Image’s business since late spring, when the respective Countdown and House of M balls started rolling?

Eric Stephenson: In a couple instances, yeah, but I think it's a little difficult to say these big events are specifically responsible for disappointing orders on this title or that title. Some of the responsibility obviously falls on us or on the creator, right? I do get a sense, though, that these events result in retailers taking a more careful look at what they order. When these things are going and there are umpteen titles involved, multiple tie-ins or spin-offs, I think it would impossible for them not to.

NRAMA: From your point of view – how do you see the actions of Marvel and DC? Are they looking to bring in new readers, or is this just a battle over existing direct market share?

ES: I wouldn't presume to speak for Marvel or DC, but as an observer, no, this isn't about bringing in new readers. If you want to attract new readers to comics, even if it's just Marvel and DC we're talking about here, I don't think the most effective way of doing that is staging a big, multi-part, multi-title event that requires a pretty hefty buy-in. Something like All-Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder? Sure, I can see that as a tool for bringing in new readers. I think the Ultimate line, when Marvel initially brought that out, I think that attracted new readers, and I think it was clear that was the goal. These big events, though, I think what ends up happening there is they just cannibalize the existing readership.

The girl who works in the bar I go to after work and occasionally asks me to recommend comics isn't looking to get in these sprawling epics. The kid curious about comics, but with only a few bucks to spend when he hits the shop doesn't want to make that kind of commitment. These events are for people already reading comic books. The idea that people are going to be coming in off the street to buy a 60-part epic is preposterous.

NRAMA: It’s been said that the events, such as House of M and the Infinite Crisis buildup are good for the entire industry – a rising tide lifts all ships and all that. Is that the story from where you’re sitting?

ES: Who says this? Is that seriously the spin on this stuff?

NRAMA: That more people are coming into stores with more excitement about comics in general…

ES: It's a lovely notion and all, but I'm not sure it's grounded in any kind of reality. I mean, just looking at the number of titles involved in these events – and I think you did a dollar analysis of how much it would cost to buy all the inter-related titles for these things – I don't see how that's possible. The people buying comics just don't have an unlimited budget for buying this stuff. Beyond that, I think the primary audience for these events is fairly polarized at the moment. Moreso than at any point in recent memory, you've got your Marvel fans and your DC fans, some of whom seem to support one or the other almost exclusively. That's not something Marvel or DC has any control over, but I don't see how that benefits the industry as a whole. Someone suggested to me today that what's really happening is this "rising tide" is lifting B and C-list superhero titles at Marvel and DC, and I think that's a fairly accurate reading of the situation. I think you could probably look at things like DC's Vertigo line or the WildStorm books and see there's no "rising tide" lifting those books, and if it's not happening there, I don't think it's happening at Image or Oni or Dark Horse or Top Shelf, y'know?

NRAMA: Speaking of Image though, and independently of the events, are you seeing certain titles lifting, while others stay level?

ES: There's a bit of that, yeah. We have certain titles – The Walking Dead, Invincible, Girls – that are clearly trending upwards, but that's been the case for some time now. Girls is building off the momentum created by Ultra and the fact the Luna Brothers are professionals who know how to deliver a book on time.

I think the bigger issue is that books have been, by and large, launching a little softer than usual. I think what really suffers in a market as crowded as the one created by these dueling events is that people – be they retailers or readers – become a little reluctant to try new things. It comes down to a choice between the hot event or the untested new title, often by an unknown new creator, and the former is probably the safer bet for a lot of people.

NRAMA: So is this something along the lines of what we spoke about earlier about locating and fixing the problem? Are readers/potential readers too distracted by the (quality aside) shiny thing, or are retailers just too strapped for cash with the larger orders for Marvel and DC that they have to cut back on something, and that something is smaller publishers, and Image?

ES: Even without these events, there are a lot of titles being published today. Image publishes, on average, around 45 comics and trades per month. Dark Horse publishes around 25. Marvel publishes over 100 comics and trades a month, same with DC. Again, on average. And then there's everything else. Oni. Top Shelf. Slave Labor. Fantagraphics. And so on and so forth. It's a seriously crowded marketplace, and I think we're really asking a lot of the existing readership if we expect 100% of this material to be supported equally. Which is unfortunate, because when I cast my eyes across our vast comics landscape, it's a great time for comics. Looking at the quality of material being published today, there's plenty of reason to rejoice, but I'll say it again, no one can afford to buy everything. And I doubt most retailers have the resources or fortitude to carry every last comic being offered.

You can't just have the event books, though, just as you can't just have superheroes – regardless of whether they're from Marvel or DC or Image or whoever. If we seriously want to grow this industry, there has to be some consideration of the fact that there really are people out there who just don't want to get bogged down in that type of material. Going back to people like the bar maid I mentioned earlier…

NRAMA: You’re not doing the stereotype that comic professionals spend a lot of time in bars any favors, you know…

ES: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, she's interested in comics, but she's not what we'd call a "traditional" comics reader. She wants to pick something up when she feels like it, she wants it to suit her tastes. I've recommended a few of our books based on that – Flight, Four-Letter Worlds – and that seems to work. I've told her to check out Oni's Scott Pilgrim or Vertigo books like Y: The Last Man. I don't tell her to go buy Invincible or Noble Causes, no matter how good I think those books are. So, I think it behooves retailers to examine not just their existing clientele, but the random people coming into their stores, and make an effort to rack material that's going to reach past the "traditional" comic book readers or even just past the reader that isn't buying into the hype surrounding these big events.

NRAMA” That said, you’ve said that you’re seeing minor changes, but have you seen figurative seismic shifts, that is, major retailers dropping (or increasing) their orders as pushes for Marvel and DC events come to pass, or are the larger retailers still steady?

ES: Well, I don't think there's any retailer out there who is looking at something like The Walking Dead and saying, "You know what? I'm selling 20 copies of this book every issue, but I need to make room in the budget for Event Book XYZ, so I'm slashing this down to 10 copies." That just doesn't make good business sense, because if such a retailer existed, he or she would actively be chasing away existing sales on an ongoing book that is going to be there long after the event is over.

No intelligent retailer is going to do that, so again, I'd stress that the main hit is going to be taken by the newer titles.

NRAMA: You’ve been in the industry long enough to have see an event “battle” or three such as this – in your opinion, what is their overall effect on the industry?

ES: Not to carry on harping about new titles, but I think the main effect is a lot of good new material is immediately marginalized, not just from other publishers but from the publishers participating in these events. Good books that could be building their own audiences are suffering in the wake of these events. I see something like Vertigo's Human Target canceled due to low orders – an absolutely fantastic book by a truly gifted writer – and there you go, that's the effect. I see a book like GØDLAND not being carried in a lot of shops, despite incredibly positive reviews, despite the fact that many shops that are stocking the book are selling out, not just of their initial orders, but their reorders as well – that's the effect. New comics are an extremely important part of this industry, and I think getting into this mindset where the big events are the primary focus, where new material is marginalized and only given a limited chance to grow is harmful to the long-term health of comics.

NRAMA: It’s been hinted by both Marvel and DC that “events” or at least multi-part stories such as these storylines will become regular, if perhaps even quarterly events. In your view, can smaller publishers survive that?

ES: You know, I don't know what good is going to come out me sitting and making speculative comments about everyone's chances for survival, because I just come off looking like an alarmist. And that's at best. Nothing good comes out of idle conjecture.

NRAMA: Fair enough. But still, have you had to make any defensive moves in regards to the “Marvel vs. DC” summer we’re seeing?

ES: We have one strategy here at Image: Make good comics. I think as long as we continue to do that, we're fine. If we sit around and whine and second-guess ourselves, if we lose sight of that one very simple goal, I think that's when we're screwed. I think the most important game plan for any publisher is to produce the absolute best comics possible.

NRAMA: End of the year – where do you think you’ll be relative to the fallout of the summer?

ES: I think as long as we keep our ____ together and do the things I was talking about yesterday – good books, on time – we'll be in fine shape. And I think that goes for everybody, really. I mean, I understand that Marvel and DC are doing what they have to, to some extent. They're publicly-owned companies and they have stockholders to answer to. But really, going back to what Joe Quesada did with Marvel just a few years back – when he came in and cut the crap and focused on making good comics – that's all it takes. People viewed that as this amazing feat at the time, but as far as I'm concerned, that how it's always been. Bill Gaines did it with EC. Stan Lee did it with Marvel in the '60s. Shooter did it with Marvel in the late '70s/early '80s. Dick Giordano did it with DC in the '80s – it's a simple plan, but history shows it works.

It's just a matter of keeping your eye on the prize. The minute you take your eye off the prize, you can feel the rug being pulled out from under you.

[algertman]

GODLAND is awesome

the badguy using the alien to get high was damn funny

EDIT---Invincible is better than Ultimate Spider-Man. There I said it, and it's the truth

"But really, going back to what Joe Quesada did with Marvel just a few years back – when he came in and cut the crap and focused on making good comics – that's all it takes."


He complimented Joe Quesada.....uh-oh,DC fans are gonna knock him in 5,4,3,2.........

[jmarshall]

Originally posted by MattBrady
It's just a matter of keeping your eye on the prize. The minute you take your eye off the prize, you can feel the rug being pulled out from under you.

Ah, but what if you're not standing on a rug, just on the floor?

This entire interview could be summed up in 1 sentence. "The big company crossover events don't affect us that much and there's not much we could do about it anyway if they did."

[ghostmaker]

Honestly what he's saying makes a whole lot of sense...these huge events liek House of M and IC really don't do the industry any favors at all.

In fact, I would agree that they in fact HURT the industry.

I would also argue that the fan base has beginning with the mid 80's not exactly helped the industry grow either.

These partisans like "pseudo-New" Alfonso ( )...and others...

While annoying...I really hope they are not indicative of the existing fan base....because if fans are like this...and base decisions on stupid corporate identification instead of good stories and good art then again it hurts comics.

I mean I really honestly don't care what company a good comic comes from...

And people who are so obsessed with how a certain character should be portrayed...I think pandering to them really cut out people who just wanted to get into comics for the story and art..and could care less. Continuity is fine when it serves the story...if it doesn't... throw it out. Good writing is simply writing that compels, entertains...or pushes you to imagine. Good writing is about progression and dealing with the consequences of progression.

For awhile we got that. We had indies gainging strength on finite stories that were fun/compelling, we had comics with thematic devices that did not depend on the traditional. We had art and elements in that art that did not want to be the traditional.

But i feel a backlash coming. TRaditionalists, threatened by further and greater exposure in other media leaking into remaking "their" characters...are trying to regress the industry. Maybe not consciously...but look around its happenning.

The thing is its always been happenning. Thats the most frustrating thing about being a comic fan. You see a certain period of time when people are pushing things to new heights and then wham...the industry start to get nervous, goes to practices that are very short term/opinons that are very conservative and then the market starts to contract. It's a slow death cycle.

I look at people's negative reactions to the broadening and booming of SDCC as indicative of this as well. Instead of using the possibility of a larger stage as boosts to the industry...and fans being given a chance to broaden the market by actually trying out new things: new companies, new comics, new or revitalized genres brought by a semi-boom...we instead have this... this...stupidity of narrowness, of rehashing, and of retrenchment. A return to the traditional that only appeals to a few.

and so the market shrinks ever so more.

YOu see I can see a time when there will be movies based on comic book properties but a very marginalized comic book market . And people won't even know that it was based on a comic in the first place.

Oh my bad. That's already happenned.

[glecharles]

We have one strategy here at Image: Make good comics. I think as long as we continue to do that, we're fine.

Amen to that!

Back in January, I didn't have a single Image title on my pull list. Not because they weren't publishing anything good, but because I still saw them as the Image of the 90s that effectively drove me away from comics. Nowadays, I have several Image titles that I look forward to regularly and give the first issue of almost everything they publish at least an in-store flip through.

[Ralph Mathieu]

I'm thinking that any day now Grounded is going to really be a much talked about book. Issue two just came out this week and it's great especially for those who like Invincible. Actually Grounded is Wildstorm's Intimates done right! Grounded gets going right away, has great characters and situations, is funny, and has great art.

[SD Johnny]

Good interviews, very informative. I was wondering which Image books folks are reading and why.

[BaronSamedi]

I'm loving Invincible, Walking Dead, Battle Hymm, Rex Mundi, and Ex Patriot and for money there isn't a more consistently entertaining book out there on the stands than Savage Dragon. Of course, they're reprinting Battle Pope, I like the new "Ferro City" and am really looking forward to Fear Agent.

I love where the company has been going since Erik and Eric took the reins. Well done, guys!

Now, could one of you please give B. Clay Moore a swift kick in the pants so he gets Hawaiian Dick: The Last Resort wrapped up? I've been jonesin' for my tiki-noir fix for months now...

[Cray_ws]

Originally posted by ghostmaker
Honestly what he's saying makes a whole lot of sense...these huge events liek House of M and IC really don't do the industry any favors at all.

In fact, I would agree that they in fact HURT the industry.

I would also argue that the fan base has beginning with the mid 80's not exactly helped the industry grow either...........Snip!

I agree what you're saying, I believe that if both Marvel & DC continue to pump out their crossovers in yearlong competition. Eventually after both crossovers are finished with all their "tie-ins" Readership will decline and we'll likely lose about 7000 readers across the board and close roughly 9-15 comic shops.

It can be agrued that having a tight competition with both Marvel & DC will bring new readers. This is true, but only as short term basis, because those new readers are only picking up these new books account of the crossover events. So what happens when thats over? People get burned out or find a another speculative hobby. Very few stay and remain readers, and nor do they reach out to other books (publishers).

I think the right way for Marvel & Dc to bring new readers(that will stay) is diversity of genres and less "tie-ins". I also feel that publishing comics should be about producing good reading material, not something that is going to cater to the collectors market. Such as variants and re-releasing books as #1.

[J.S. Rich]

Gosh darn I like that Eric Stephenson!

[eric_image]

Originally posted by BaronSamedi
Now, could one of you please give B. Clay Moore a swift kick in the pants so he gets Hawaiian Dick: The Last Resort wrapped up? I've been jonesin' for my tiki-noir fix for months now...

I think if you grab the latest issue of Diamond's PREVIEWS, you'll that HAWAIIAN DICK: THE LAST RESORT #3 will finally be released in November. There's an eight-page preview up at www.hawaiiandick.com.

Thanks for the kind words. And thanks, specifically, for mentioning FERRO CITY. That's a book I overlooked during the interviews when I was mentioning our titles, and it's actually one of my favorite new Image titles. Jason Armstrong is not only insanely talented, he's a consummate professional and a hell of a nice guy!

[smitch]

Originally posted by Lucifugeny
"But really, going back to what Joe Quesada did with Marvel just a few years back – when he came in and cut the crap and focused on making good comics – that's all it takes."


He complimented Joe Quesada.....uh-oh,DC fans are gonna knock him in 5,4,3,2.........

Actually, as a usual Marvel basher, I felt convicted by his comments. Especially the one about how the Ultimate Line brought in new readers. Because you know what, I had stopped reading for several years, but it's was Ultimate Spiderman that brought me back.

True confessions of a marvel-basher...forgive me!
This was a great interview.

[eric_image]

Originally posted by J.S. Rich
Gosh darn I like that Eric Stephenson!

Awwww... Thanks, Jamie!

[fistofkhonshu]

Originally posted by algertman
Invincible is better than Ultimate Spider-Man. There I said it, and it's the truth

I agree. A few years back I had to get out of comics for financial reasons and there were two books I really hated to drop. Invincible & Rex Mundi. Ultimate Spiderman just bored me to tears after a while. It was a book I had to force myself to read every month, and then barely enjoyed. Whereas Invincible really made me feel like I was reading an old Spiderman comic from my youth, minus the cheese dripping from every page when I re-read those old Spider-books now. I hear great things about team-up... can't wait for the crossover...

[JimmyKitty]

Thanks Newsarama - another great interview and much to chew on in regard to the industry.

Still... how to crack that golden egg - how to get a new title out with proper launch numbers to keep it rolling long enough to build up a fan base. A good comic is one thing, but as pointed out... even a great title can get canned.

In short, best hope is for the planets to line up in the cosmic order and weave a path through the bomb shells of industry events.. and some how, some way... get noticed.

And do that with a good and consistent comic.

[ThatNickGuy]

Mm. Invincible, you sexy beast.

You had me at hello.

You, too, Walking Dead.

Maybe it's just Kirkman.

Seriously, though, Image has consistently been putting out a lot of good stuff over the last couple of years. Powers, Ultra, Invincible, Walking Dead, etc. Well, those are the only titles that I've personally been able to afford to get but I hear the rest are simply awesome.

It's thanks to Image (specifically Invincible) that I've thought about leaving DC and Marvel altogether and just sticking with titles that keep most of their stuff within the one title. (upcoming Marvel Team-Up not included).

As a writer who wishes to break into the industry, I'd love to work with Image. Got one idea but no artist. =/

[sniperboy2]

Godland is not being carried by a lot of comic book shops because it is not any good. Take it from me, I bought the first issue. I was very disappointed with book from the artwork to the story. I was really looking forward to this book but I have dropped it from my saver.

[Calibre Freeze]

Originally posted by Ralph Mathieu
Actually Grounded is Wildstorm's Intimates done right!

Actually, thanks for saying this. I had just heard about GROUNDED for the first time during the Part One of this interview (i suck) and I seem to have been one of the few people who was enjoying Intimates. Now that that's being cancelled, I really must get off my ass, finally cancel about half of the DC comics I subscribe to and get this sucker.

[Supermutant]

I been following image since the start. I love Noble Causes, Invicible, Walking Dead, Savage Dragon, and others. In a business where you have House Of M and Infinite Crisis (Or a like to call this summers dibacle House Of Infinite Monkey Crap Crisis) that really shooting fans in the heart where I'm afraid to see how this story turns out. I am really afraid how this whole turns out for both because its pretty well could be told that the gloves are off and no one is safe anymore despite what fans think. I'm glad there are companies image out there that actually care about fans still and actually still put funs book without having to just destroy something every other issue. Thanks image and thanks eric larrisen. When is the next issue of Savage Dragon coming out or the delayed She Dragon special? What ever happen to Liberty Meadows?

[BClayMoore]

Originally posted by sniperboy2
Godland is not being carried by a lot of comic book shops because it is not any good. Take it from me, I bought the first issue. I was very disappointed with book from the artwork to the story. I was really looking forward to this book but I have dropped it from my saver.

I'd hate to see what you think is "good," brother.

But, no...evidence is stacking up that the book's going to see numbers jump soon. It seems to have snuck up on people, but the response is pretty impressive.

From my own experience, I was in my local shop yesterday, and we talked about GØDLAND. The owner's exact comment to me was, "Man, I wish I'd ordered more copies of number one." After three reorders, he ended up running through about fifty copies of the book, which for a shop his size is a pretty substantial number.

And he agrees with most people that it's a great book.

Obviously, opinions vary on everything, but I'm a fairly critical reader, and I have to admit that this book is better than I ever thought it would be.

(and keep in mind I no longer work for Image...this is me speaking from the heart!)

-BCM

[mrpoizun]

I have to say, I'm not the least bit tempted by the mega-series like "Identity Crisis", "Immunity Crisis", "Infinitely a Crisis", or "House of M". But someone must buy them because my local shop sure carries a poopload of them. Usually they aspire to too much and the books just can't remotely live up to the hype, plus more often than not, the art is subpar.
I get excited when I find a gem, like Jason Pearson's "Body Bags", now from Image, originally from Dark Horse back in '96! Don't know why I missed it then, but I sure enjoy both the art and story.

[errolmorris]

The DC enthusiast that I am, I took a look at my pull list recently and noticed I was preordering a lot of books I wasn't actually interested in just to stay on top of Infinite Crisis (which, if one believes its title, will go on forever). I've scaled back now and reserve some free cash each week to try something new. Comics are a medium for storytelling, and "superhero" isn't the only genre.

[J.L.]

NRAMA: From your point of view – how do you see the actions of Marvel and DC? Are they looking to bring in new readers, or is this just a battle over existing direct market share?

ES: I wouldn't presume to speak for Marvel or DC, but as an observer, no, this isn't about bringing in new readers. If you want to attract new readers to comics, even if it's just Marvel and DC we're talking about here, I don't think the most effective way of doing that is staging a big, multi-part, multi-title event that requires a pretty hefty buy-in. Something like All-Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder? Sure, I can see that as a tool for bringing in new readers. I think the Ultimate line, when Marvel initially brought that out, I think that attracted new readers, and I think it was clear that was the goal. These big events, though, I think what ends up happening there is they just cannibalize the existing readership.

DC's Identity Crisis is a big diaster. OMAC Project... dumb. Why tie all these books together. I've only a few interests in DC charters. But now because of this Identiy thing I've dropped them all off DC universe titles.

Marvel on the other hand is doing the big universe bash thing with out the need to read every single book they put out. Good for them and new readers.

Other the Batman and Superman, the rest of the DC Universe is expendable. I hope they kill off Wonder Woman by the end of this Identity Crisis thing. Just cause she's an old character doesn't mean she's a good character. Marvel doesn't print Spider-Ham comics just cause he's been around for a long time. Or even "Slap Stick" for that matter.

J.L.

[EmeraldGuy32]

IS that the cover to Bone:Rest 3?? That's sweetness.!