Frightening news from Claypool Comics

[David Seidman]

Claypool Comics is in trouble.

Diamond, the main company that distributes our books to comics shops, has said that it’ll stop distributing DEADBEATS and SOULSEARCHERS AND COMPANY starting with the issues shipping in April. That move would wipe out much of our company.

If you’ve ever bought Claypool’s comics, buy them now. Diamond may delay or withdraw its decision if we can show an upward trend in sales.

Ask your local retailer to order Claypool’s books, especially SOULSEARCHERS #76 (on sale in January) and DEADBEATS #76 (on sale in February). These are our “Jump In” issues, written and drawn especially for new readers.

The retailers are writing their January orders now, so we need your help immediately. If you can save us, we won’t forget it.

Thank you sincerely.

David Seidman
Marketing Director
Claypool Comics
davidseidman@earthlink.net
www.claypoolcomics.com

[Louis Lane]

David, I understand Diamond's market share is huge, and that they're essential to your survival, but does Cold Cut or FM carry your books?

LL

[Strike]

It seems that Claypool are another victim of Diamond's decision to change their threshold.

Be a shame to lose Claypool, and definitely a shame if a character like Elvira were to fade into comic book limbo.

[David Seidman]

From Louis Lane:
< David, I understand Diamond's market share is huge, and that they're essential to your survival, but does Cold Cut or FM carry your books? >

They certainly do. We've worked with Cold Cut and FM from their startup, and they've been very good to us.

David Seidman
Marketing Director
Claypool Comics
www.claypoolcomics.com
davidseidman@earthlink.net

[Mark_Innes]

David
I hope you are able to generate a little mpublicity, enough at least to generate an extra few dozen copies of sales.
It's ridiculous that after 75 issues they would threaten these titles . Claypool has been producing professional comics for what? 12 years?
I wish Diamond would look at publishers like yourself who are obviously in it for the long haul as different from a flash inthe pan, hot first issue and get out of town outfit.
people talk of other distributors and other methods of sales, but for stapled comics, Diamond buys at least 85% of all comics in North America. Even for a small publisher who may not se a profit on what Diamond buys, it allows them to pay for a large part of the printing, alowing the publisher to make up the rest with smaller outfits like Coldcut or FM, internet, mail and convention sales.
This has caused a trickle effect recently as many smaller publshers have totally abandonded stapled periodical comics and went entirely to books due to the recent decisions.
I can't see how Diamond cant at least break even selling 300-400 copies of a small press book?, how much time does it take to read out submissions, copy our own synopses and cover scans into Previews? When I used to sell my own books to 8 or 9 distributors back in the early 90s, I would make money on any order over 15 copies, but every sale counted. The more books I got to stores the more success I could achieve.
Has Diamond Comics become too big to distribute non-mainstream comics? Are comics less relevant to comic shops?
Why did our audience shrink so badly in the last 12 years?
If it was just a reading thing, then magazine and book publishers would be in the same boat, but I dont think they are as marginalized.
As for me, publishing comics is a small business that I do for pleasure, and I have one more stpale comic planned for about June of 2007, then I an switching to book format, where I have a shot at selling these to other markets.. And with boioks, show and mail order sales start to become signifigant

[The Doc]

Mark_Innes wrote

Has Diamond Comics become too big to distribute non-mainstream comics? Are comics less relevant to comic shops?

I don't think it's that at all. Try to find an indie title that you haven't pre-ordered, but you want to try it out anyway. I wish you luck in your search. Believe me, as an indie fan who only buys indie books, I know. Comic shops won't order shelf copies of indie books, and so the old adage "out of sight, out of mind" applies. You can't generate new readers if potential readers can't find your book or maybe don't even know it exists.

It's so much easier to pick up the latest DC or Marvel title, rather than pre-order or drive around to several shops looking for that indie book.

And the sad truth is, most comic fans are really just DC and/or Marvel fans. Nothing wrong with being a DC or Marvel fan. But DC/Marvel fans could care less about the indie publishers, Claypool included.

[GeorgeG]

But is Claypool showing any growth? On their site they have four titles listed (don't know if they actually publish four). If they've been around for 12 years, that's not saying much. What kind of sales do they usually get w/ Deadbeats & Soulsearchers?

[ComicHappy]

Originally posted by GeorgeG
But is Claypool showing any growth? On their site they have four titles listed (don't know if they actually publish four). If they've been around for 12 years, that's not saying much. What kind of sales do they usually get w/ Deadbeats & Soulsearchers?

I hope I just misunderstand your point here.

Aardvark-Vanheim only published one title (Cerebus) for what, 24 years?
Abstract Studios only publishes one title, as do several other publishers.
After 10 years El Capitan Books has only published three different books, one of which may be the best comic on the market.

So maybe my question is How many titles would be more acceptable?

[The Doc]

GeorgeG wrote

But is Claypool showing any growth? On their site they have four titles listed (don't know if they actually publish four). If they've been around for 12 years, that's not saying much. What kind of sales do they usually get w/ Deadbeats & Soulsearchers?

When a book like Elvira reaches issue #150, it obviously has some sort of following and it at least must be a following large enough to keep Claypool in business. Same goes with Soulsearchers and Deadbeats, both of which have surpassed 70 issues.

Claypool is never going to reach the sales numbers of a DC or Marvel, or even some of the larger Indies, like Image/Top Cow or Dark Horse. But is that any real reason for Diamond to shut them down? While Claypool sells enough books to stay in business, they just don't sell enough books, at least according to Diamond.

[Electric Glove]

Originally posted by ComicHappy

After 10 years El Capitan Books has only published three different books, one of which may be the best comic on the market.

I'm a little foggy on this title. Stray Bullets?

[GeorgeG]

Originally posted by The Doc
GeorgeG wrote


When a book like Elvira reaches issue #150, it obviously has some sort of following and it at least must be a following large enough to keep Claypool in business. Same goes with Soulsearchers and Deadbeats, both of which have surpassed 70 issues.

Claypool is never going to reach the sales numbers of a DC or Marvel, or even some of the larger Indies, like Image/Top Cow or Dark Horse. But is that any real reason for Diamond to shut them down? While Claypool sells enough books to stay in business, they just don't sell enough books, at least according to Diamond.

Diamond has every right to. They are a business. If the sales on Claypool comics are so low--and they have this built-in audience, whatever the size--couldn't they just offer a subscription service from their Web site ?

I would guess they have one, so why not just have that? I don't think it's a bad thing.

Now, if they can't survive without Diamond, then yeah, it's a shame. But that's business.

[GeorgeG]

Originally posted by ComicHappy
I hope I just misunderstand your point here.

Aardvark-Vanheim only published one title (Cerebus) for what, 24 years?
Abstract Studios only publishes one title, as do several other publishers.
After 10 years El Capitan Books has only published three different books, one of which may be the best comic on the market.

So maybe my question is How many titles would be more acceptable?

If they are all using Diamond and meet their standards, then that's great. Do they use Diamond?

On how many titles--whatever your business model allows. How long has Abstract Studios been in the business? If it's 12 years, like Claypool (as someone else has said), then yeah, I think they should have more output than that.

If Abstract is putting out something good, are you telling me you wouldn't want more from them?

And if anyone has any sales data on any of these books from these publishers, I'd appreciate it if you could share that data.

The way you say Cerebrus, I'll assume that has ended. Perhaps it's just time for Claypool or whatever respective title(s) to end as well. Maybe they've come full circle and that's it. Nothing wrong with that.

[Mark_Innes]

George G, I am getting the impression that you dont have a good idea of what comics have been on market , both past and present.
I cant believe you have neve heard of Cerebus? Honestly? It is the worlds longest running independent comic book that ran for 300 issues from 1977 to 2004. And it didnt end due to low sales as you inferred , it ended beacuse the story was planned for 300 issues and then it was done. As for Abstract Studios, they have published Strangers in Paradise for about 12 years, and it has been consistently one of the most popular indy comics on the market. Pretty Much the same with Stray Bullets.
Most of these companie are run by the creator who does everything from creating to publishing, they have no time or interest in publishing other books. And Diamond does not care how many titles you create, just how much each one sells by itself. besides, there are way to many comics coming out nowas it is, mostly too many DC books, really DC could kill 2 dozen items of their monthly output and no one would notice, and likely other titles could receive more attention, same with Dark Horse and Image to a much lesser degree. The new Planet of The Apes comic from MR Comics does it right, come out with one great book and grow from there, not flood the market with product and go out in a ball of flame.
Claypool puts out 2 comics a month, $5 gets them all, do you think if they put out more comics they would make more money? It doesnt work that way. They have been very dependable and shown that they can produce pro quality books on schedule. They make comics, people buy them and read them, Diamond sells them and has made money on them for years, so why kick them now?
Where is the reward to publishers who do a good job producing and shipping books that do ok and ship on time?
Why should they bother? Im sure they could get better paying jobs in other fields if they tried. Why should they bother working with an axe constantly over their necks?
Its a slippery slope to a coorporate controlled mass media bland product that it will become if Diamond continues on the path they do.
The readers will be the losers with less diversity, and appreciation of the whole gammut of creative potential of comics.
It should not be all about divide and conquer, and flood the market with as much as you can milk the fans for. That was part of the problem that pushed away folks in the 1990s.

The only thing I can say is maybe Claypool should switch to trades only, they may do better or at least as good as they have done.
Comments?
Mark

Originally posted by GeorgeG
If they are all using Diamond and meet their standards, then that's great. Do they use Diamond?

On how many titles--whatever your business model allows. How long has Abstract Studios been in the business? If it's 12 years, like Claypool (as someone else has said), then yeah, I think they should have more output than that.

If Abstract is putting out something good, are you telling me you wouldn't want more from them?

And if anyone has any sales data on any of these books from these publishers, I'd appreciate it if you could share that data.

The way you say Cerebrus, I'll assume that has ended. Perhaps it's just time for Claypool or whatever respective title(s) to end as well. Maybe they've come full circle and that's it. Nothing wrong with that.

[GeorgeG]

Originally posted by Mark_Innes
George G, I am getting the impression that you dont have a good idea of what comics have been on market , both past and present.
I cant believe you have neve heard of Cerebus? Honestly? It is the worlds longest running independent comic book that ran for 300 issues from 1977 to 2004. And it didnt end due to low sales as you inferred , it ended beacuse the story was planned for 300 issues and then it was done. As for Abstract Studios, they have published Strangers in Paradise for about 12 years, and it has been consistently one of the most popular indy comics on the market. Pretty Much the same with Stray Bullets.
Most of these companie are run by the creator who does everything from creating to publishing, they have no time or interest in publishing other books. And Diamond does not care how many titles you create, just how much each one sells by itself. besides, there are way to many comics coming out nowas it is, mostly too many DC books, really DC could kill 2 dozen items of their monthly output and no one would notice, and likely other titles could receive more attention, same with Dark Horse and Image to a much lesser degree. The new Planet of The Apes comic from MR Comics does it right, come out with one great book and grow from there, not flood the market with product and go out in a ball of flame.
Claypool puts out 2 comics a month, $5 gets them all, do you think if they put out more comics they would make more money? It doesnt work that way. They have been very dependable and shown that they can produce pro quality books on schedule. They make comics, people buy them and read them, Diamond sells them and has made money on them for years, so why kick them now?
Where is the reward to publishers who do a good job producing and shipping books that do ok and ship on time?
Why should they bother? Im sure they could get better paying jobs in other fields if they tried. Why should they bother working with an axe constantly over their necks?
Its a slippery slope to a coorporate controlled mass media bland product that it will become if Diamond continues on the path they do.
The readers will be the losers with less diversity, and appreciation of the whole gammut of creative potential of comics.
It should not be all about divide and conquer, and flood the market with as much as you can milk the fans for. That was part of the problem that pushed away folks in the 1990s.

The only thing I can say is maybe Claypool should switch to trades only, they may do better or at least as good as they have done.
Comments?
Mark

You're assuming/inferring (whatever word you choose to use) and just basically sidestepping my questions.

Concerning Cerebus. I said "I'll assume that has ended." The simple answer from you should have been "Yes."

No where did I say it must have been because of low sales. No where.

Actually, I assumed that it had an ending and you confirmed it for me that it did. And not to argue semantics, but "It is the worlds longest running independent comic book"--it WAS.

I've been following comics for a little more than nine years. For whatever that means anything to the discussion. Granted, I can't name every comic that has been published in those nine-plus years and name all of the comics being published today. Perhaps you can.

Also, because I've shopped for my comics at a LCS for the better part of those nine-plus years (I now shop online), I can tell you I never even saw one issue of Cerebus on the shelves. I may have heard the name in passing on a message board somewhere in the past nine-plus years, but actually seeing it--nope.

As for Stranger in Paradise & Stray Bullets, I got a FCBD issue of the latter once. I don't recall seeing SiP however. But now, since I get things online, I'm exposed to more product than at any time during the past nine-plus years at that LCS.

So you say "Most of these companie are run by the creator who does everything from creating to publishing, they have no time or interest in publishing other books. And Diamond does not care how many titles you create, just how much each one sells by itself."

If Claypool can't meet Diamond's standards (that last sentence in the above statement) and Diamond is indiscrimant in its policies, then why should they care if Claypool has been using their system for whatever amount of years?

Some perceived loyalty?

Claypool has met the standards Diamond created over the years. Diamond has changed their standards (which is a common business practice). It's up to Claypool to meet the new standards.

What is the standard Diamond has now set...600 copies...1,000 copies. It's probably low enough. If a comic isn't meeting those standards (if someone knows what amount Claypool needs to meet, please share), perhaps they shouldn't be a part of the comics landscape anymore, as far as Diamond goes anyway.

You say "besides, there are way to many comics coming out nowas it is."

Why aren't you grouping Claypool or any other smaller publisher in that statement? They get a pass?

Maybe it's time for Claypool to change its business model. Would more product be advantageous for them? Would better promotion, public relations and not sitting on its laurels be of benefit?

In those nine-plus years of going to a LCS, I never saw one of their titles. And one is written by "fan favorite" Peter David, but I would suggest to you that many of his fans NEVER even heard of the book.

Whose fault is that? Does Claypool claim any of that responsibility?

You say "Where is the reward to publishers who do a good job producing and shipping books that do ok and ship on time?
Why should they bother? Im sure they could get better paying jobs in other fields if they tried. Why should they bother working with an axe constantly over their necks?"

Who's putting an "axe" to their necks? THEY ARE THEMSELVES. They get themselves into publishing and know the circumstances involved. No one asked them to "bother." They're doing it of their own free will.

Reward? Huh? What are you talking about? I don't know what they're in it for. Money could be an answer. Seeing something published with their names on it could be another. Maybe ego. Who knows. But, more importantly, who cares? Why would you?

So maybe you can answer me if Claypool has a subscription service at its site. If it does, then that's what they'll probably have to go with if they don't meet the new Diamond standards. If they don't have it already, maybe they will institute one.

Maybe someone at Claypool or someone who has a subscription service for their books, can talk about the economics of having one (setting it up, maintaining it, etc.) here.

If Claypool can't meet Diamond's standards, will they fold?

[The Doc]

GeorgeG wrote

Diamond has every right to. They are a business. If the sales on Claypool comics are so low--and they have this built-in audience, whatever the size--couldn't they just offer a subscription service from their Web site ?

Diamond is also an effective monopoly, due to the fact that it is the only distributor to the comic market that has a truly nationwide (and really, worldwide) reach. Therefore, how can Claypool distribute its comics if the only distributor won't even handle them? If Capital City or Heroes World (pre-Marvel buyout) were still around, I wouldn't really have problem with Diamond cancelling Claypool. Claypool might and very well would be still carried by Capital City and Heroes World.

If Diamond is allowed to cancel a publisher that is obviously doing well enough to keep itself in business, regardless of how many copies they are selling, then I think Diamond is abusing its monopoly power by deciding for itself which comic books deserve to be published, rather than allowing the marketplace to decide.

[Mark_Innes]

If 2 of the 3 Clyapool titles are given a pass by Diamond then Claypool may go out of business, and at the very least would have to do a quick change in business plans.
You cannot sell comic books in any kind of profiable way without Diamond.
I ve sold about a dozen different books through Diamond over the years and they passed on the last one, sales go from break-even or small profit , to big loss and time to ponder how much I love making comics.
Remember , I dont do comics for money, I do it because I like doing it, I get joy out of seeing a finished product that we workd on come out from an idea to something you can hold in your hand..
One of the reasons I put some blame especially on DC is this, they could put out 50 comics or 100 and their overall sales will be barely increased, due to a spreading out of readers over more titels, but there is a benefit that they enjoy with this, one that Marvel enjoyed in the 1970s and again in the 1990s, is that if they put out ewnough stuff, they can burry the competition, and they are doing a pretty good job, and since Diamond and DC are in cahoots now, I have my suspicions as to where the new policies originated from, especially since Dimoand was so wonderful to work with at one point, very suportive and helpful and friendly. I will give them this, they do list the Xeric award winners evry issue still so....meh,

For my own future, Im hoping but not banking on getting any future products into Previews, I do agree they cant list evrything and must set standards of professionalism. But to illustrate how it really stings is there have been a few people who have asked if they could get their local retailers to order my latest booka nd I told them no, since Diamond passed, but they could order it directly, only a fraction of those readers that might have bought it in the store will buy it from me direct. The only gain is I dont have to sell at less than 40% of cover, so I would need about 300 copies sold to break even, which I will do, but not this year.
Lately Ive been finding all kinds of differnt kinds of venues like arts and crafts/smallpress/ indy kind of shows, very good, Im sure that the importance of shows like SPX and APE and SPACE will grow in the future,Ive also seen some good hustle going on at Wizard World shows and san Diego. And of course the smaller wholesalers like FM international and Coldcut will be a nice help to the small folks.

Its tough to make a breakthrough to a profitable comopmany, only a few have done it in the last 15 years, Image, Drawn and Quaterly, Top Shelf, Slave Labor, Adhouse, , I cant think of very many that have lasted 10 years. Publishing comics can be at times about as much fun as sliding down a banister of razer blades, you pore all your time, money and talent into stuff that may prove to be unwanted, and you might never be sure what it was that you could have done to make it better. I wonder how well the new company MR Comics will survive for example?

[The Doc]

Mark_Innes wrote

One of the reasons I put some blame especially on DC is this, they could put out 50 comics or 100 and their overall sales will be barely increased, due to a spreading out of readers over more titels, but there is a benefit that they enjoy with this, one that Marvel enjoyed in the 1970s and again in the 1990s, is that if they put out ewnough stuff, they can burry the competition, and they are doing a pretty good job, and since Diamond and DC are in cahoots now, I have my suspicions as to where the new policies originated from, especially since Dimoand was so wonderful to work with at one point, very suportive and helpful and friendly. I will give them this, they do list the Xeric award winners evry issue still so....meh,

I agree with you, but I wouldn't give Marvel a free pass either. Marvel was the one who killed off any competition for Diamond with their ill-advised purchase of Heroes World. DC, along with several of the larger Indies (Dark Horse, Image and Acclaim/Valiant) at the time, decided that they needed to be carried exclusively by a distributor as well, and all chose Diamond. Capital City went under, was bought out by Diamond and Marvel closed down Heroes World when it found out it couldn't do a very good job a distributing comics. And thus we now have the situation we are now in-only one major distributor.

I agree with you as well that most indies are going to have to look at alternative ways to distribute their comics. Comic cons and shows are great, but not every comic reader has access to a show nearby, nor can every comic creator travel to all the major shows.

So, I think what you will start to see is that the internet, which is already a big force in comics, will become the major selling point for most indie titles. You might see websites like Keenspot, where indie fans could gather, preview what's up and coming and links on how to order copies.

[ComicHappy]

Originally posted by GeorgeG
On how many titles--whatever your business model allows. How long has Abstract Studios been in the business? If it's 12 years, like Claypool (as someone else has said), then yeah, I think they should have more output than that.

George, I am trying to understand your thoughts here.
Abstract puts out one kick ass comic on a regular schedule.
Why should there be more than one comic?

Maybe Terry Moore's goal (Business Model?) is just to put out an amazing comic every month.
Do you equate not expanding (titles wise, lets hope the comics see increased sales) with something bad?

[GeorgeG]

If it's one guy that makes up the studio, then I guess not. Does he use Diamond? And will their new standards affect him any?

[David Arhar]

A temporary solution: Claypool should simply relaunch it's "universe" with a series of #1's. Yeah, I know, I know. Some people, who are unaware of the Diamond situation, may view it as a cheap marketing ploy, but sales should still improve enough to buy Claypool enough time to rethink their position in the market, and take action. Think Elvira #1 with a series of great variant covers. Money in the bank.

Sell out, or bow out? I'd call it a compromise.