THE Z-CULT FM SAGA: TALKING TO SERJ & ZOG

[fredlknedl]

one of the main reasons people download comics is availability, imo
nearly no comic shops over here (in austria) and in the few that even carry us books, the prices are just outrageous (1$ = min. 1€), mostly trades at that

back issue availability =
if i'm lookin for some random backissue of the flash that has never been collected in trade i'm out of luck, there are some back issues, i remember seeing Action Comics #0 for 40€ rofl
just insane.... well, whatever

don't know if it fits into this topic or not
suggestions for online comic shops that ship to europe at fair prices are welcome

[metr0man]

I saw something pretty funny in one of the articles about this whole bru-ha-ha

Additionally, Marvel has been demanding certain files from Z-Cult FM - files they don’t have, admin ‘Serj’ told TorrentFreak:

“Z-Cult pointed out that we do not in fact hold any of the files that Marvel have demanded we provide to them. If Marvel understood how BitTorrent works, they would realize this.”

Lmao did they really demand the actual files FROM ZCult?

This is what you get when you have a bunch of old guys who don't understand technology making decisions about technology - technological ignorance. Someone at Marvel might want to do a little research as to how Bittorrent works. Here's a hint, there's a reason its called PEER 2 PEER rather than WEBSITE 2 PEER.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent

[JoeZhang]

Originally Posted by deadjacket

before hiding behind the Whois guardian the website was registered to a UK address...

ah - they got a problem then - the "US law doesn't apply" defence doesn't work - there are plenty of laws here that marvel/DC could hit them with.

If I was the guy who the sites were registered to, I'd make sure all of my assets were in someone else's name.

[Meteoro7]

There are new news respecting this. Check the Cult!

[dpg]

Originally Posted by metr0man

I saw something pretty funny in one of the articles about this whole bru-ha-ha



Lmao did they really demand the actual files FROM ZCult?

This is what you get when you have a bunch of old guys who don't understand technology making decisions about technology - technological ignorance. Someone at Marvel might want to do a little research as to how Bittorrent works. Here's a hint, there's a reason its called PEER 2 PEER rather than WEBSITE 2 PEER.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent

Maybe they wanted files that contained user records. I am sure that is on their list somewhere.


I bet the letter is already formated:

Dear______________

On (dates) you downloaded (titles). You owe us (insert dollar amount here).

Thank you,
Marvel Comics Legal dept.

[JoeZhang]

Yesterday Marvel contacted us further in response to our email to them. They provided a direct phone number to we could contact them directly and continue on our communication. We phone them up today first thing (US Time) and enjoyed a chat with them.

They have now followed our removal process kinda but Z-Cult FM and Marvel have decided the following:
* We will remove all Marvel comics from our trackers.
* We asked for 7 days to remove the books from our trackers (due to time it takes to delete them all) and they agreed.

So we would like to thank Marvel for following our removal policy (like all other publishers have done in past) and not going down the legal route once again.

So 7 days from now there will be no Marvel comics on our website.

We asked marvel if they wanted to say anything as the reason for the removal to our users and they mentioned they are doing it because of their new download site.

We won't be providing links back to Marvel's new download service like we have down for SLG etc because I feel what Marvel is offering is NOT a download service but more like a preview site. The users who purchase to read the books can only read them, they can not store them for a later date. So I do not class this as a download service for digital comics so will not be linking to it. If in future Marvel add a download feature to it we will link to it and support the site 100%.

Marvel have also stated their site is a work in progress so if anyone has any comments or suggestions be sure to contact them or start a thread on this site and they will read them.

New 30 Day Policy on DC Comics
DC Comics have not contacted us further about the issues over the last few days, but the staff of Z-Cult FM have agreed among ourselves we find it best if we start a new 30 day policy on all new DC comics.

So as of today no DC Comic publications will be allowed on our site until least 30 days after they have been available in the shops. Any comics uploaded before this ban can remain but any comics that are uploaded since this ban was posted will be removed and the uploader reminded of our new policy.

I must stress the following points before any people read this or news sites pick it up:
* This 30 day ban is only for DC Comic books for time being.
* DC Comics has not replied to our response that we made on Friday.
* Z-Cult FM Staff have come up with this ban.
* This does not come from DC Comics or any other publishers.

I just wanted to clear that up so no confusion is started like the SLG issue that news sites picked up on.

-------------------------------------------

Not all our users will agree on our above two news posts.

Some will think we are folding to Marvel. Well we are not, now marvel has followed our DMCA policy we will be happy to remove all of their books within the agreed 7 days. If we ignored Marvels DMCA removal request then we are breaking our own policy's and rules and I don't want a site where we break our own rules.

Some users will not agree with the 30 day ban on DC Comics also, but the Z-Cult FM staff have agreed and made this rule as we thinks it works best for the site in the current situation.

If you have any comments you know what to do Smile

Serj and Z-Cult FM Staff.

taken from the Z-cult site.

[metr0man]

Very interesting.

[Brenticles]

Originally Posted by khuxford

I agree. Funny thing is...unless I'm misreading things...they said they went right back. The implication seemed to be that they won't be pulling Marvel and DC books, despite the cease and desist, because they didn't follow their exact procedure for requesting their books be banned. That's a head scratcher right there.

This is the funniest bit about the whole situation. Z-Cult doesn't care about Marvel's or DC's rights or copyright law, but when they tell Z-Cult to stop the response is, "No! You didn't follow our exact procedures!" The irony is just too funny.

[vbartilucci]

They have now followed our removal process kinda but Z-Cult FM and Marvel have decided the following:
* We will remove all Marvel comics from our trackers.
* We asked for 7 days to remove the books from our trackers (due to time it takes to delete them all) and they agreed.

So we would like to thank Marvel for following our removal policy (like all other publishers have done in past) and not going down the legal route once again.

There you go, cooperation in response to properly formatted requests. I still think it will do more to make Marvel look bad (as legally correct as their request is) but everybody behaved courteously.

We asked marvel if they wanted to say anything as the reason for the removal to our users and they mentioned they are doing it because of their new download site.

And I'll bet the ranch that this was a mistake for them to say outright, and may be retracted or clarified later. It implies that they would have done nothing had their online service not existed.

New 30 Day Policy on DC Comics
DC Comics have not contacted us further about the issues over the last few days, but the staff of Z-Cult FM have agreed among ourselves we find it best if we start a new 30 day policy on all new DC comics.

Again, a good and reasoned response to the situation. They're not interested in making themselves legal martyrs, they're interested in keeping the site up.

And kudos to Marvel for accepting the request they follow Zcult's policy and not just do a David and Goliath on them. While DC hasn't actually responded yet, I expect they too will accept a simple removal of torrents.

As I said earlier, Marvel and DC HAD to do something about the site to protect themselves.

[Generic Eric]

Z-Cult is but the first head to roll. Marvel and DC should go right for the throats of the biggest downloading offenders. It sends a big loud message to all of the scrubs downloading free comics. Comic books don't cost 3 bucks a pop when you can mailorder or simply wait for the trade. Marvel and DC have what the vast majority of fans don't. The ability to produce monthly comics adventures about you're favorite characters. They put up the money to hire writers, artists, editers and productin staff. For that they deserve some respect and a little less bitchiness from downloaders.

[Darksbane]

haha, thank god for newsgroups.

[Generic Eric]

If anyone posting here feels the need to read every comic published monthly from the big Two need to leave you're computer once in awile to get some fresh air. It's just funny books people.

[Daaaaaaaang!]

Z-Cult and all the current machinations are, to be blunt, meaningless. Scanners will still scan and the previous hotspots (Direct Connect) and newer methods of sharing (Forums and Rapidshare-ish sites) will fill the gap.

It's the same thing with Napster. After it got slammed, Soulseek and AudioGalaxy rose to prominence. After Soulseek tapered off and AudioGalaxy shut down, you had the rise of MP3 blogs and torrent sites like Oink. Oink gets shut down and you already have two major competitors for the throne (Waffles, What CD).

It just seems silly to see this as any kind of paradigm shift. A file sharing enabler gets nabbed by copyright owners, attempts to kowtow to said folks and slowly dismantles its services until its completely irrelevant and subsummed by other 'services' offering the original offending content.

[Daaaaaaaang!]

Z-Cult is but the first head to roll. Marvel and DC should go right for the throats of the biggest downloading offenders.

Seems like it would be a lot easier to go after the scanners:

1. Far fewer scanners than downloaders.
2. Scanners tag each of their scans.
3. You can trace them back to a small set of IRC chat rooms and the like.

[Meteoro7]

The Z-Cult just plays it nicely. Let them try to do the same to the Pirate Bay, lol.

[SkipShot]

Somehow I see this as the beginning of the end for the comic industry, just as the whole Napster vs. the RIAA and Metallica was the beginning of the end as we knew it for the music industry.

Personally, I discovered downloadable comics about 5 years ago after not having bought a comic book in some 20 or more years. As I began to download and read more and more, I discovered the quality of stuff available and the incredible variety of stuff available today and I rediscovered my passion for the medium. Since then I have gone from spending nothing on comics to over $1,000 a year on them. Alas, after having twins in the past year, I had to significantly cut back on my comics spending, so I went back to downloading books and I only bought the stuff I really liked and wanted to own. I'd like to have another avenue to download books legally, but after checking out Marvel's digital subscription option, it just doesn't provide what I'm looking for. I don't mind the subscription option, but the files need to be downloadable and I need to be able to take them with me on my laptop to view in places where I don't have Internet access. I also don't want the selection limited to only a few back issues that Marvel decides they want to offer. I want new comics and a much wider variety of back issue material from Marvel and DC. I loved the Marvel DVD's that were available until they recently cancelled them and pulled the license of the company that was making them. It's attitudes like this that are going to limit my comics spending rather than causing me to buy more books. Comics publishers also need to realize that digital comic books need to be priced fairly. They don't have printing and shipping costs and hosting costs much less than it does to print and deliver those books to shops around the world. The cost needs to reflect this fact.

Originally Posted by Generic Eric

Z-Cult is but the first head to roll. Marvel and DC should go right for the throats of the biggest downloading offenders. It sends a big loud message to all of the scrubs downloading free comics. Comic books don't cost 3 bucks a pop when you can mailorder or simply wait for the trade. Marvel and DC have what the vast majority of fans don't. The ability to produce monthly comics adventures about you're favorite characters. They put up the money to hire writers, artists, editers and productin staff. For that they deserve some respect and a little less bitchiness from downloaders.

[Brenticles]

New 30 Day Policy on DC Comics
DC Comics have not contacted us further about the issues over the last few days, but the staff of Z-Cult FM have agreed among ourselves we find it best if we start a new 30 day policy on all new DC comics.

I wonder if DC will actually go for this, or if having started the wheels in motion, they will have to follow through and have Z-Cult remove all DC torrents. I'm betting that DC will have all of their stuff removed.

[GLG]

One thing that strikes me about this whole story... Marvel at least has an alternative product. DCU will hopefully have most of Marvel's back issue library up, so there's a legitimate claim to wanting the torrents to stop. DC doesn't offer a similar service, but was still involved in the C&D order. Maybe DC should come up with a digital alternative for their product before going after the torrents?

[GLG]

Originally Posted by Brenticles

I wonder if DC will actually go for this, or if having started the wheels in motion, they will have to follow through and have Z-Cult remove all DC torrents. I'm betting that DC will have all of their stuff removed.

They won't. I'd say Z-Cult is only doing that since DC hasn't responded to their request to follow their policy on removing their material. DC is part of AOL/Time-Warner/CBS-Viamonster (or whatever the name is now), so it will take them a while to respond. I'd expect them to do so within the week.

[Brenticles]

Originally Posted by Generic Eric

Z-Cult is but the first head to roll. Marvel and DC should go right for the throats of the biggest downloading offenders.

And risk suing some 12-year-old kid? If Marvel and DC go after downloaders and attack a kid it will be a worse PR nightmare than it was for the music industry, especially since comics in the US are still perceived as kid-stuff. Most people will think they are attacking their core audience.

[ThomHunt]

Originally Posted by MattBrady

Updated 11.26.07 - 4:30 pm EST



Zog: The people scanning are not going to stop scanning, and if publishers want to force their readers and fans to unsavory sites to download, that’s up to them.


Matt Brady contributed to this article.

I'm not sure where I stand yet on the issue at hand, but I have to say in defense of the publishers (AND in defense of "taking personal responsibility for one's own actions") that NO ONE can "force their readers and fans to unsavory sites to download" other than the readers and fans themselves.

[Generic Eric]

Originally Posted by Brenticles

And risk suing some 12-year-old kid? If Marvel and DC go after downloaders and attack a kid it will be a worse PR nightmare than it was for the music industry, especially since comics in the US are still perceived as kid-stuff. Most people will think they are attacking their core audience.

Then more people would know that they still make those things called comic books. Publicity is publicity.

What would be the incentive to create new comics if people will just download them for freee? It's not as if Artists and Writers can go on tour like musicians.

[Daaaaaaaang!]

Originally Posted by Brenticles

I wonder if DC will actually go for this, or if having started the wheels in motion, they will have to follow through and have Z-Cult remove all DC torrents. I'm betting that DC will have all of their stuff removed.

They're owned by Time Warner. Do the math.

[JLAJRC]

Originally Posted by vbartilucci

There you go, cooperation in response to properly formatted requests. I still think it will do more to make Marvel look bad (as legally correct as their request is) but everybody behaved courteously.



And I'll bet the ranch that this was a mistake for them to say outright, and may be retracted or clarified later. It implies that they would have done nothing had their online service not existed.



Again, a good and reasoned response to the situation. They're not interested in making themselves legal martyrs, they're interested in keeping the site up.

And kudos to Marvel for accepting the request they follow Zcult's policy and not just do a David and Goliath on them. While DC hasn't actually responded yet, I expect they too will accept a simple removal of torrents.

As I said earlier, Marvel and DC HAD to do something about the site to protect themselves.

It should be interesting to see how long those policies stick, though. Surely traffic to their website will go down by the lack of Marvel and DC, since they are the most read comics. It may even shut them down without either company even having to sue them. Imagine if Newsarama went Marvel/DC free for a week? Traffic would PLUMMET for that week.

[JLAJRC]

Originally Posted by The Funketeer

I don't download comics because I can't stand reading them on a computer. The resolution of a monitor just doesn't do it for me and I can't stand scrolling all over the page trying to figure out what's going on. That said, as soon as someone comes up with an easy way to read these things on the computer, I'm in. I don't need to spend $3.00 on something that I'm going to read once and have it take up space in my basement. I'd love to be able to download the titles that I read just to keep up with the story and purchase hard copies of only the titles I'd want to read over and over again.

.

I agree with you for the same reasons. I spend too much on something I basically only read once, plus it takes up ALOT of space. I would pay a subscirption to read current comics on the web.