THE Z-CULT FM SAGA: TALKING TO SERJ & ZOG

[Ben543250]

Digital comics are better for the environment.

Just sayin'

[Sesshomaru]

and for space as well ...

[dpg]

Originally Posted by Ben543250

Digital comics are better for the environment.

This is very true.

[Carlos Javier]

Originally Posted by neko85

LMAO.

Oh Marvel...

That bit was funny.

[Dalarsco2]

Downloading new comics without intention of buying if they rock is wrong, but I reserve the right to dl old out of print stuff because I can't be bothered to find all the backissues of stuff like Thor and Daredevil that I can't buy on DVD like the other classics.

[JLAJRC]

Originally Posted by Ben543250

Except they CAN say that, and ZCult will comply. There's no reason to demand they shut the entire site and tracker down.

But that depends on how fast they are to remove it. You can do alot of downloading in the hour or two it's up.

[Meteoro7]

Originally Posted by JLAJRC

But that depends on how fast they are to remove it. You can do alot of downloading in the hour or two it's up.

So, you're saying that people should go there right now and hurry?

[Axelay]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

Like the music industry - the comic companies will have to decide who is their customer? the end consumer or the retailers - as others have said, people want to consume digital comics, the industry needs to react to that, not say "but we don't want to do it!".

I agree with your post 100%, but I think DC and Marvel have already pretty much decided that their customer is the retailers. DC won't offer online downloads at all, and Marvel's downloads are designed carefully to appease retailers who don't want Marvel offering new comics on a download-to-own basis.

I've got to believe if DC and Marvel thought that their customer was the end consumer, they'd be selling directly to that end consumer and cutting out the middleman.

Z-Cult exists because there is a true, verifiable market for brand new, download-to-own comics. You can't purchase new download-to-own comics legally, so people are taking an illegal route. I'm not justifying it, I'm not advocating violating copyright, I'm saying that is simply the way it is -- the market abhors a vacuum.

DC and Marvel aren't serving this market because they are terrified of angering the retailers.

[vbartilucci]

Originally Posted by Sesshomaru

Thats their problems not ours ....
Enough with the guilt trip about retailers ... some of us NEVER wanted such system anyway and used to buy they comics in supermarkets when it was successful . Overprotecting such fragile and sheltered system is becoming silly ... there is a market for an alternative distribution , its there and its not going away .

Ironically, the Direct Market WAS an "alternative distribution" system, and was created as a response to newsstands not wanting to waste shelf space on such a low pricepoint (at the time) item like comics. Short sighted, yes, but it kept the industry alive. But it also marginalized it; something that really needs to be reversed.

If electronic distribution existed, it could open the market up again to the general public. If DC (and Marvel) sets it up, they should make a BIG publicity push, and offer a primer collection for each of their heroes, for like a buck, so people can get up to speed on any character they like. Or even better, sign up with the site (no charge) and you get one free download. That'd bring a lot of people to the site, and get lots of signups. And while those would count as promotional items (and as such not subject to royalties, but that could be changed), it would open the door to more sales and more royalties later.

Pull boxes, subscription lists, suggested additional purchases, all automated. Hey, reader, you read Teen Titans, did you know about the Wonder Girl Mini? Or that Blue Beetle has his own title? Try an issue for only 50 cents since you're a regular customer. Hey, you like Flash; Mark Waid also writes Brave and the Bold - why not try it? Here's a preview you can view right now; click the link to drop a copy in your "longbox" (instead of shopping cart). You could easily add a couple bucks to a customer's order that way, multiplied by X number of customers a day. The add-on sale is a main key to profit - just ask Jiffy Lube.

And you say you'd like a physical copy of that title? Well, here's a database of LCS near you. Want a Superman T-shirt? Here's a comic store with online ordering that we've partnered with. Want to buy a gift card for your kid? Stop in any participating comic store and pick one up. Or if Wal-mart wants in, you do a pack of exclusive comics and a gift card as a stocking stuffer. And if the LCS has a brain and a bit of marketing savvy, they'll do their own gift packs.

You could even do a card that only allows all ages purchases so Junior doesn't buy all the Vertigo titles.

No longer would people have to be talked into finding and visiting a comic shop. Get them to the website, get them interested, and they'll go to the LCS on their own. And those are people who would NEVER have gone before. IOW, new customers. The holy grail of retail.

Why the hell am I telling this to you and not putting together a business plan? I swear, my philanthropic nature gets the better of me sometimes...

[Steve J.]

I never heard of z-cult until reading this article. I went to the site, didnt see any recent comics, golden age comics don't interest me, so I left the site, probably never to return. I've never downloaded a scanned comic anyway, not worth the time or effort to figure out how to do it.

[S Giacomelli]

Originally Posted by Steve J.

I never heard of z-cult until reading this article. I went to the site, didnt see any recent comics, golden age comics don't interest me, so I left the site, probably never to return. I've never downloaded a scanned comic anyway, not worth the time or effort to figure out how to do it.

I did it for ages and it sucks man...gets a little old moving the laptop every time I have to wipe...

[lpmiller]

It's sad, Marvels digital downloads.

When I take a .cbr file to view, I turn my 20 inch monitor to portrait mode, and I see the full page, in twenty inches, clearly readable without having to toggle any kind of zoom function. Frankly, it looks great, and I have horrid comic nerd eyes.

Marvel gives me a decent scan with clumsy zoom functions, no portrait option, and nothing new. I'd totally pay into a subscription model that gave me new comics, in a format I could read them. I don't even care if they are hosted on a site or downloadable.

People flocked to itunes and Amazon mp3 because it offered them what they were willing to pay for, but couldn't before. It's the same with comics. And as a bonus, there will ALWAYS be the collector who wants the hard copy, that is built into the hobby. I have never ever ever met anyway who gave up buying comics because they could download them, but I know a ton of people who buy now, or buy more now, because of downloading. I realize that seems counterintuitive, and certainly the same cannot be said for music or software.


The best way to EVER deal with any kind of piracy is to look into the why of it, and then counter the WHY, not the HOW.

[vbartilucci]

Originally Posted by Bitler

Part of the problem here is that they would be hurting the retailers by offering downloads. Cutting out the middle man is good for us. It makes sense and I would love to have legal downloads to buy, but it would be a PR and financial mess for them to destroy or at least compete with their own retailers. Retailers are part of the comic business.
Bitler

What if DC and/or Marvel decided they could make just as much money by stopping producing comics altogether? They could just license the reprint rights to a printer, and make movies and video games of the characters everyone already knows, and the vast majority of people haven't actually read anyway. And I refuse to believe this hasn't been mentioned in one corporate meeting or another.

Are they morally obligated to keep publishing books for keep the LCS alive? Nope. Did the automobile industry make restitution payments to the buggywhip industry? (Forgive me for using that analogy a lot, but it's a really good one for this argument)

When they stopped making vinyl records, record stores started selling CDs. And there's still lots of places that still sell vintage vinyl records. So too with comics. If they become available online, there will be plenty of people who will still want the paper copies, and plenty more who'll want to buy merchandise. A larger customer base means more success, even if it means you'll have to do some (more) work to GET those customers.

The industry went through a boom in the early 90's by successfully convincing the world that comics were an investment, like other guaranteed winners like beanie babies. VERY short-sighted. This would get books into people's hands who would READ them. That CAN'T be a bad thing.

If Apple had any brains, they'd already own the domain icomics.com (they don't - some guy in Arlington VA does - he's gonna be RICH in a year or so...) The Itunes format would be a great way to go. License the electronic distribution rights from the comics companies and it becomes pure profit.

[WantonChicken]

zcultfm has brought me back to comics.

viva z-cult.

[Steve J.]

Originally Posted by Ben543250

Digital comics are better for the environment.

because they don't use trees? think again: they use electricity, which requires either coal or uranium, so they still have a significant environmental cost. and don't forget: computers are made of glass, plastic, metal and toxic substances, and therefore have their own special environmental impact in terms of production and disposal. so don't hug that tree too tightly...you can always grow a new one.

[Meteoro7]

Great insight, vbartilucci. I really hope DCers and Marvelers read your posts, there's some really deep business insight in there.

DC and Marvel are afraid to hurt retailers. I get that, but more readers mean more business. How many toys get sold these days? Imagine those customers times x. Would the retailers be unhappy then?

Plus DC and Marvel should go global. The US is not their only market. Stop being so shortsighted. And the only way to reach a global market is going digital and I don't mean dropping hard copies; just creating a new format that lots of people would appreciate and its cost would be minimal since no trees would be need to be killed and there would be no middle man standing in between.

[Sesshomaru]

Originally Posted by vbartilucci

No longer would people have to be talked into finding and visiting a comic shop. Get them to the website, get them interested, and they'll go to the LCS on their own. And those are people who would NEVER have gone before. IOW, new customers. The holy grail of retail.

Why the hell am I telling this to you and not putting together a business plan? I swear, my philanthropic nature gets the better of me sometimes...

How could they not even ponders that on their own is beyond me . I'm french , and like i said i gave up years ago comics , i was pissed at the onslaught crossover and most books of the era ... BUT also around that time , or sometimes before , our usual French marvel publisher SEMIC , stopped distributing Marvel stuff , went with Image , and the market was given instead to Panini publishing . I'm not sure if its the reason , or if it just coincided with the crash of comics , but then books stopped being available in regular stores and supermarket ...
I was only receiving those i already subscribed too, and once those subscriptions ended , again not happy with the stories , and midly annoying by finding a comics becoming a quest for the holy grail (One retailer around in the region , he's a jerk , overcharges stuff , everything is so late ...when french publishing is already usually a year behind , hate marvel and rub his hate in his customers faces ) and a hassle , i gave up ....

Then i started wondering why wasnt there comics scans available , like its already the case for manga , and you know the rest . I happilly came back , found a way to imports us comics and dl those while awaiting shippings .

Anyway , point , is look at our french example , Marvel stopped caring about direct market , and apparently tried to adapt their retailers system here , and its not working . There are only a few stores for starters , and if if wasnt for a few manga and books retailers keeping a few shelves for Marvel France , there would be nowhere to get them ....

Comics are as confidential as it can be here , and its not because its maligned , source of laughters , european comics , korean manwha , and manga keeps skyrocketing and selling like crazy .... US comics are just virtually absent of the territory .
If it wasnt for a shriking fanbase of nostalgics given the genre a little boost thanks to trade and essentials , and of course the movie .. it would be dead .

From what i gather , its the same in plenty other countries ...

Face it Marvel (and DC) ... comics downloads are probably your best and sole advertising/promoting system outside the us , and its not even your doing ...
You wont embrace it and want to kill it ? You cant , and if you succeed ... great you prevented money you never had in the first place , to fly into your pocket ...


Given their lacks of perspective and reactivity , i doubt solutions will comes from the publishers ... i see instead some external operative (diamond ? apple ?) launching a huge center , and Marvel and DC being forced to go along with it .

[Bent Corner]

I've always been under the impression that Marvel and DC didn't care that Z-Cult posted trackers to BitTorrent files of their comics. If Marvel or DC had a problem with it, all they would have had to do was email the admins at Z-Cult and ask to have their comics banned. That is, all it took to get Z-Cult to ban comics was an email from the publisher.

What I don't understand is that seems to have now happened, yet the comics from Marvel and DC have not been banned. Z-Cult went ahead and put the trackers back up because they decided that they don't have to follow U.S. law. That might be the case, but don't they have to follow their own policy?

[razorwing77]

Originally Posted by Steve J.

because they don't use trees? think again: they use electricity, which requires either coal or uranium, so they still have a significant environmental cost. and don't forget: computers are made of glass, plastic, metal and toxic substances, and therefore have their own special environmental impact in terms of production and disposal. so don't hug that tree too tightly...you can always grow a new one.

Not sure if you're being serious here, but 2 things. One, people already have computers. No one is buying a computer specifically to read comics, so that doesn't affect the environment in any way. Two, I'd be willing to bet that a paper mill uses more power to make enough paper for one comic than I would use to read one comic on my computer screen.

[Meteoro7]

The Z-Cult does have a system for banning requests. Neither DC nor Marvel followed them. All they did was try to sue them. There's a slight difference between both.

[hlbimage]

Stopping one Bittorrent site IS going to creates five more in it's place. Much like the music business adapts or die out Marvel or DC. But I have to say that it is about time that someone is doing something about stopping these illegal activities. Took ya long enough.

[Sesshomaru]

They should focus upon catching up in an aera their quite clueless about , instead of hunting down pirates in areas they are even more clueless about .

[Bent Corner]

Originally Posted by Meteoro7

The Z-Cult does have a system for banning requests. Neither DC nor Marvel followed them. All they did was try to sue them. There's a slight difference between both.

How did they try to sue them? They didn't file a lawsuit. They sent them an email requesting that the trackers be taken down. Something it appears they are not willing to do.

[Meteoro7]

Originally Posted by Bent Corner

How did they try to sue them? They didn't file a lawsuit. They sent them an email requesting that the trackers be taken down. Something it appears they are not willing to do.

I didn't phrase it right, my bad

They sent a Cease and Desist letter, threatening with sueing. They didn't approach the Z-Cult as some other publishing companies did, requesting to ban their books. Whether Marvel and DC were ignorant of how big the Z-Cult community is and how it would backfire on them, or they were just too arrogant to do a little investigation. But the thing is, the Z-Cult does have a banning system and my wild guess is that neither DC nor Marvel are aware of it, because of their lack of investigation. I think I can also assume they know little of how torrenting works. Basically, it was a "scare tactic" on their part, because I highly doubt US laws apply outside of it.

[deadjacket]

Originally Posted by Meteoro7

I didn't phrase it right, my bad

They sent a Cease and Desist letter, threatening with sueing. They didn't approach the Z-Cult as some other publishing companies did, requesting to ban their books. Whether Marvel and DC were ignorant of how big the Z-Cult community is and how it would backfire on them, or they were just too arrogant to do a little investigation. But the thing is, the Z-Cult does have a banning system and my wild guess is that neither DC nor Marvel are aware of it, because of their lack of investigation. I think I can also assume they know little of how torrenting works. Basically, it was a "scare tactic" on their part, because I highly doubt US laws apply outside of it.

but UK copyright laws (i believe) are very similar to the US...