THE Z-CULT FM SAGA: TALKING TO SERJ & ZOG

[JoeZhang]

Originally Posted by BornToRun

It took me two and a half read-throughs to understand this--is "IP" a standard abbreviation for intellectual property in legal circles or something? I was reading it as in Internet Protocol.

IP = Intellectual Property

IPR = Intellectual Property rights

[Sesshomaru]

Like i've said many times , i got back to reading and buying comics thanks to torrents , more precisely thanks to Zcult . Now plenty of ways exists , so much that it wont ever be stopped .

Drill that into your thick skulls dear Marvel and DC executives .... you took at least 5 years to come up with an already outdated solution such as renting comics in an online crappy system ... we wont stay idle 5 more years while waiting for you to do the inevitable , proposing downloadable comics .

I wholeheartly support zcult and any place sharing comic scans . And i'd ask Newsarama and any other sites to also properly enquire JQ and didio about the matters . Too often is this subject ignored or simply avoided with a stupid joke .

i'll keep buying my comics , whole downloading them as well , i want my digital collections , so i'll acquire it in whatever means necessary , while supporting the economy . But enough with the abusive protection of the outdated retailer system ... or face the consequences .

[Aaron]

I was so disappointed by Marvel's new "digital comics" venture... it astounds me that this is what they've come up with when well over 90% of their entire historical output has already been scanned and released elsewhere... if there's enough demand for a group of people to scan that much of your output, THAT'S the format people want it in. It's truly NOT rocket science.

So, I have to support Z-Cult in this. The tail is wagging the dog, here. The customers are sending a clear message to Marvel and DC that this is what they want, in a specific format, at a reasonable cost and the companies are continuing to stick their heads in the sand.

Once they finally get around to offering an appropriate product, most of the people they'd target will already HAVE the material. For free.

Genius.

[Meteoro7]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

No it's a case of the big company saying stop selling OUR product.

Hey, Joe, try visitiing the Z-Cult. It is not selling no one's product. It is not making profit for doing the distribution DC and Marvel are neglecting to do.

[Ace]

Well, that's the first time that someone used "blinkered" in a newsarama interview, so far as I know.

[JoeZhang]

Originally Posted by Meteoro7

Hey, Joe, try visitiing the Z-Cult. It is not selling no one's product. It is not making profit for doing the distribution DC and Marvel are neglecting to do.

I've been to Z-cult - I meant to say "distribute" rather than sell - but you'd agree with the general principle that Marvel/DC have the right to protect their property?

[WiggumBeard]

Ah, Z-Cult. I'm familiar with that place. While I perfectly understand Marvel and DC taking action, though, demanding that they shut down all the trackers just doesn't sound very good on their part. Their books? Sure. Demand those taken down. But demanding the place as a whole (or the trackers) taken down? I dunno.

[Predabot1]

These Z-cult guys seem kind of tame & lame... not at all as crafty and witty as the good folks over at Piratebay, that actively make fun of the corporate big-wigs and don't give a s**t about threats like this.

Also, there aren't any porn-ads on Piratebay... Ads, yes. Porn-ads? No.

[BornToRun]

I feel the same way about these guys as I feel about the folks pirating music and movies. I think that the studios overreact and try to do stop things that are entirely beyond their realistic control...but they're within their rights to do it.

[Carlos Javier]

I definitely understand DC and Marvel doing what they did. However, I frequent Z-Cult quite a bit for older comics and new releases I'm on the fence about. It usually results in the big boys getting more of my money anyway. That's not a justification for illegal activity, just the way it is. I believe Serj when he says that he'll take down a company's material if that's what they wish.

I find it hard to believe that so many long time fans don't see the writing on the wall when it comes to digitally formatted comics. At least Marvel's making an effort, but until they start some major web-exclusive comics, they'll still fall behind.

[Daaaaaaaang!]

Marvel and DC have seen some of the consistently best sales ever since comic book scans and their respective torrents caught on. It's not really like music where, however erroneous they may be, the RIAA can point to sharply declining sales as the product of file sharing.

Anecdotally, I post at a non-comic forum where downloads have hooked folks who haven't touched the funny books since they were in grade school. Seems like a 'live and let live' policy would work best here, as long as those sales numbers are high and the scanners can learn to keep a low profile. Then again, I'm not running a million dollar corporation or producing content for the masses.

I have a substantial weekly pull. I buy trades of the series I'm really hooked on, even when I already have the singles. I just like having whole chunks of story all in one book, and it looks nice on the bookshelf. I buy collections like Marvel Masterworks and special editions like Abosulte New Frontier for similar reasons. I'm a single guy with a good job, a substantial disposable income and few other hobbies outside of comics.

After all that, I'll still download a handful of comics. Why? It's either a new series or something that was recommended to me. Why do I download it? I already spend a consistent buttload of cash on comics that I enjoy and want to see if this new (or new to me) title is worth my time and money. Should I feel bad? Hell no. If I am guilty of stealing, then folks at Marvel and DC are equally guilty of (occasionally) flooding the market with sub-par quality stuff. In the end, it's a wash to me.

(Please don't sue.)

[Carlos Javier]

Maybe some good will come out of this if DC and Marvel get their way. Just like the music industry, I can see places like Z-Cult becoming the place to find talented newcomers and big company weary veterans.

[Bitler]

Originally Posted by Axelay

The argument I've heard before that "DC and Marvel don't offer brand new download-to-own comics because customers don't want them" is old and tired.

Part of the problem here is that they would be hurting the retailers by offering downloads. Cutting out the middle man is good for us. It makes sense and I would love to have legal downloads to buy, but it would be a PR and financial mess for them to destroy or at least compete with their own retailers. Retailers are part of the comic business.
Bitler

[ShinAkuma666]

I did not know about their site before I read the Blog section of Newsarama (but I am going to be a member after I finished this post)

I download comics, mostly for sampling them before I buy them or not, I mostly only buy TPB and HC and donwloading and reading a portion of the material before helps a lot in deciding on the product;

When I used to get comics in monthly form, I was easy to drop a title after 2-3 comics if I did not like it, I cant do that with a tpb or a HC so torrents become most valuable.

5 pages previews and hype are not enough to help me decide if I plan on getting the collected work later on.

So far, mostly Image and DC Vertigo have provided the first full issue to read and that has got me to buy many series. Sure, not everyone will download then buy, but lot of us do, without downloads, I would not buy anyway, I would just buy less.

[vbartilucci]

Originally Posted by Moored

You know, all that has happened because of these Cease and Desist letters is that now more people know about this ZCult.

So, in the long run DC/Marvel may actually turn out to be the losers because of this move

It's now called The Streisand Effect, but has been true for countless years - the act of banning, protesting or otherwise speaking against a thing only serves to generate publicity for said thing. Movie companies PRAY for controversy.

Heck, the first story in the Bible deals with people being expressly told not to do something.

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

why buy when you can get for free.

The collector mentality. People like owning a thing. You taped (sorry, I'm old: "Tivo'd") all the episodes of (insert show here), but odds are when the DVD box set came out you bought it. Because you wanted a thing you could put on the shelf. There will always be enough of those people so physical copies of things will not fade away.

It's the very reason the Marvel site will fail - you don't even get to "own" the electronic comic they offer, you just get to read their copy. Far more people prefer to buy their books over borrowing them from the library, unless it's a book they never plan to read again.

Slave Labor is selling their books online for 99 cents, AND they're allowing the Cult to host torrents of them. This means either they see the advantages to making the books available, or they are billionaire philanthropists and don't mind seeing money slip through their fingers. I've seen how Vado dresses, I know which it is...

All the new books are in digital format now, at least at the Big Two. It would take ONE PERSON less than a day to assemble the weekly output into web format, whether it be CBZ, PDF or some new self-running format with the viewer embedded. Negligible additional cost, spread out over the number of books.

Make an electronic version of the new books available for a discount price. I'd like it to be a buck, but I truly have no idea how much of the printing process contributes to the cost of a book so I honestly don't know if that's still profitable - I'm betting it is, tho. Put extras in it that the scanners can't give you - an interview with the creator, copies of the pencilled pages so you can see the art process. You know, special features like you'd get on a DVD. Then prosecute if anyone torrents THOSE, since those are specifically created for the web and there's no semantic wiggle room if you try to distribute it. Do that, and watch how many people who currently download their books would HAPPILY pay for them.

I have a system design in mind that will even make the LCS happy. I volunteer to run the process for DC. For a suitable renumeration, of course.

[Sesshomaru]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

I've been to Z-cult - I meant to say "distribute" rather than sell - but you'd agree with the general principle that Marvel/DC have the right to protect their property?

A funny thing would be , if , hypothetically , fans were to organized and create a site with as pre-requisite for downloads , proof of purchase , or some kind of ban system without those proof after a short time . Of course there would be probably less members then , and total freeloaders wouldnt stick around ...
But still , point is , would Marvel and DC keep telling us "no sir you cannot get scans from those comics you already own or owned " ?

Part of the problem here is that they would be hurting the retailers by offering downloads. Cutting out the middle man is good for us. It makes sense and I would love to have legal downloads to buy, but it would be a PR and financial mess for them to destroy or at least compete with their own retailers. Retailers are part of the comic business.

Thats their problems not ours ....
Enough with the guilt trip about retailers ... some of us NEVER wanted such system anyway and used to buy they comics in supermarkets when it was successful . Overprotecting such fragile and sheltered system is becoming silly ... there is a market for an alternative distribution , its there and its not going away .

Music and movies industry learned that lesson already and keeps learning it The more Marvel and Dc refuses to give such choices , the more income they'll loose , and the more retailers would be hurt anyway . The good ones would survives anyway , like some music stores , thanks to a loyal customer base and their services ... but as things are , even those might just die against a black market

[JoeZhang]

Originally Posted by Bitler

Part of the problem here is that they would be hurting the retailers by offering downloads.

Like the music industry - the comic companies will have to decide who is their customer? the end consumer or the retailers - as others have said, people want to consume digital comics, the industry needs to react to that, not say "but we don't want to do it!".

[Sesshomaru]

Marvel's greed is rampant and obvious is that matter ... nrama should also ask them if they felt so threatened by their site's poor offering , poor's design , and the sheer stupidity of their offers , that they also even shutted down their deals with GIT concerning legal scans on DVD ...

They are trying to kill every digital means to distribute files , so their mediocre system suffer no comparison , instead of making it better ...

[Meteoro7]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

I've been to Z-cult - I meant to say "distribute" rather than sell - but you'd agree with the general principle that Marvel/DC have the right to protect their property?

Yes, I fully agree.

All I want is that DC and Marvel start using the internet properly and distribute their product this way. They have to realize that digital format and dead tree format are two different beasts. Digital formal would give them world wide distribution at real low costs. And I, would sign up to lots of their books at a reasonable prize.

[neko85]

Marvel Comics and DC Comics gave us 3 day to comply with their demands and then decided to go on their Thanksgiving holiday. So 2 of these 3 days we have been unable to contact Marvel by telephone to discuss this matter with them. We would like to thank DC Comics who were available by telephone and were friendly enough to talk about the situation and confirm the documents were indeed from DC Comics.

LMAO.

Oh Marvel...

[DalekSupreme]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

IP = Intellectual Property

IPR = Intellectual Property rights

A term made up by big corporation lawyers to circumvent the restrictions of copyright law, such as not being able to copyright an idea and the time limit on copyrights where after their materials become public domain.

Copyright law in this country is consitutionally based so changing it is rather difficult. IP has no basis in the constitution so it can be adapted to do whatever it is the corporations don't like about copyright law.

[Sesshomaru]

The funny thing is some of us are so passionnate , that even at a low price , we , used to downloading huge packs of comics , would end up using a lot of money ...

[dirtymerkin]

Originally Posted by Bitler

Part of the problem here is that they would be hurting the retailers by offering downloads. Cutting out the middle man is good for us. It makes sense and I would love to have legal downloads to buy, but it would be a PR and financial mess for them to destroy or at least compete with their own retailers. Retailers are part of the comic business.
Bitler

I buy iTunes cards at a retailer. Why couldn't I go to my local comic shop and get a card for digital comics? I agree that an iTunes type service for comics is the solution. I'd pay.

[dpg]

It would be nice if there was a way to make everyone happy in this situation.Comic Publishers just want to make money on what they create.

But I don't know that they could lose much on downloads. I could see that the majority of people that download and don't buy their books wouldn't be buying them anyway. So it can't be that much of a loss.

I can't speak with too much experience on this. I have downloaded books but I buy way too much. My last weekly order from scifigenre.com was $135. I would like to buy digital comics just so I could save a few bucks.

My guess is if the big publishers would go digital on new books they would want $2.50 each instead of $2.99. I think publishers could make a killing selling digital versions of new books at 75 cents a piece. That would bring in the people that don't buy any books at all.

I kinda just rambled on there.

[Ben543250]

Originally Posted by JoeZhang

No it's a case of the big company saying stop selling OUR product.

some people have a difficult time grasping a simple concept - you have no right to someone's IP. While I'd like to see legal downloads, marvel and DC are not the badguys in this - unless trying to protect your IP is a bad thing.

Except they CAN say that, and ZCult will comply. There's no reason to demand they shut the entire site and tracker down.