TILTING @ WINDMILLS #23: ONE YEAR LATER

[MattBrady]

by Brian Hibbs

(#139 – December 2005)

I was going to blow this month’s column off, to be honest. I was sick last week, with that stomach flu that was going around, and it’s Christmas, pretty much the busiest time of the year.

But Matt Brady begged and pleaded and cried and wailed. “Oh, please, Brian, write a column about ‘One Year Later’! The solicits are up, and I know our readers will care ever so much about how a retailer will approach ordering them!”

I told him “No! There’s no time this month – I am still recovering, I have a metric ton of work to get done!” But he wouldn’t take that no for an answer. He started calling me at all hours of the night, he sent me faxes, and, on one terrifying occasion, sent out a sky-writing plane over the streets of San Francisco. “Surrender, Hibbs” it proclaimed, and I knew I had no real choice…

So, how does one order a set of comics like this?

With much trepidation, agonizing soul-searching, and a lot of big random guesses, it turns out.

Click here for the column.

[ghostly1]

I know for me, although I like the _idea_ of OYL, in actual practice, for the most part it's going to be a jumping off point. Before OYL I picked up a handful of DC Titles: Batgirl, BoP, Outsiders, Teen Titans, Gotham Central, Robin. Based on what I've heard so far on OYL (and hearing more might certainly change my mind), I'll be down to two OYL: Birds of Prey, and Teen Titans - and both of those are on a 'try out' basis. If I don't like what I see, I might not continue.

Granted, not all of my decisions to drop can be traced completely to OYL (Outsiders, for example, I was growing slowly disatisfied with since my favorite character on the book, Indigo, died... the OYL just marks a convenient point to drop it if nobody I like has joined the team by then), but none of the other OYL books have grabbed my attention and made me interested in picking them up, either.

[sniktsnikt]

Interesting to see the thought processes behind something that we see as just a pile of comics on the rack.

I still haven't decided on 52, but $12-15 a month for 12 months so I can understand what's going on in the DCU? I'm thinking no.

[Evil Rick Shea]

Brian, excellent column as always. I really think it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the OYL stuff. I had no idea it was only 22 titles affected, I was thinking it would be 30-35 overall, but I've only briefly looked at the solicitations so far. Obviously, as the DCU is a bigger part of my business than ever, I know these books are going to really do insane numbers in my store, at least the first month or two. I've had several customers that say they want to try every OYL book for at least the first month, so it'll be a complete crapshoot as to how many will be around for months two, three and so on.

Thanks as always for a well-written column and I'd be interested to see how these titles do for you in a future column.

Evil Rick Shea
Famous Faces & Funnies
Melbourne, FL

[roach04]

Since I started mail-ordering all my comics 3 or so years ago from DCBS, I have a much better understanding of what retailers have to go through (although on a much smaller financial scale!). It's really tough to commit to something new when you know you'll have to order issue #3 before you've even read #1. Brian does know comic readers though, as the only 2 new books that I'll be adding OYL are Aquaman and Hawkgirl. Big name creators sell titles!

[Kevin T. Brown]

Brian, excellent article. As a fan of these books, I can tell you my buying habits are not going to change immediately. I am going to buy Green Arrow again, despite Winnick's mangling of the character, because of McDaniel & Owens coming aboard. But that's the only change for me. I already collect all the issues you went over, except for Firestorm and Catwoman and nothing will change that for me.

Overall, I look to be buying more DC in the coming months as I'll try all the new titles without dropping any. But that's just me. I don't know if that helps any retailer out there or not....

[CaptainTemerity]

The costs of ordering, tracking, processing, and racking it immediately soak up any possible profit there could have been. I’d rather have one larger selling book, like a Batman Family, then 3 marginal spin-offs that do nothing to expand an audience even a fraction.

Here here! A Batman Family book is something I would definitely support as a reader, and was just talking about the old incarnation of it at my shop this past Wednesday.

I love Nightwing, and buy that book regularly. Same with Birds of Prey. But if you put the two of them in a trilogy book with Robin, I'd be inclined to spend more, even if I'm not totally interested in that third book, just to have one book with so much story potential.

I don't know exactly how DC should work it, but I see a lot of potential in the idea. Maybe moreso for second or third-tier character books.

Wonder Woman/Aquaman/Firestorm
Green Arrow/Green Lantern/Corps
Teen Titans/Outsiders/Doom Patrol

Any one of those would've gotten me to try a title I wouldn't normally buy. Especially if you kept the quality up.

Who knows. It just seems interesting.

[zeraze1]

Brian,

I applaud your honesty that these stunts by DC as well as Marvel won't instantly win over new fans. The only DCU title I buy is Legion of Superheroes so I'll stick with that series despite Supergirl's inclusion.

Otherwise, the solicitations sound like "same old, same old." Sure, a diehard DCU fan will be in heaven because they're steeped in the decades of continuity. Me, I'm thinking "Who cares about Flamebird being Supergirl?" or "I doubt the new Batman will be as daring a choice as Terry McGinnis (Batman Beyond)." If the OYL pitches sounded half as brilliant, thrilling and gutsy as the JLU cartoons, then I'd bite.

So, Mr. Hibbs, you're right that some readers like myself respond to OYL with indifference than enthusiasm.

zeraze

[man_nanny]

I'm definitely in the "using OYL as an excuse to drop some books" crowd. I think that IC is good enough to finish out the mini-series, but I don't really care about the repurcussions. I've been slowly dropping DC books over the last couple of months, and the few books I am enjoying (Wonder Woman, Gotham Central, Adventures of Superman--I like Rucka) are changing creative teams or being cancelled out right. And I won't be following Rucka to Supergirl, because I just don't care for the character.

[Duke Harrington]

Not sure if it will help your ordering decisions, but here's how this fan would be ordering if he did business at your shop. FYI: We're talking about a 38-year-old lifelong comics fan who pre-orders/pre-pays for his books at one of only a half dozen or so comics shops in Maine. I've got a post 15% discount budget of about $80-$100 per month, depending on that month's mood at the First National Spouce Savings & Loan.

BATMAN #651 & DETECTIVE COMICS #817
Both books get added to my pull list this month. The reason? James Robinson.

CATWOMAN #53, NIGHTWING #118 & ROBIN #148
I dropped Catwoman somewhere around #24 and Robin back around #50. I've never bought Nightwing other than out of quarter bins and as part of large-lot auction bids. Nothing in the solicitations here makes me want to jump on now.

ACTION COMICS #837 & SUPERMAN #650
These solicitations don't actually grab me. However, I did add these books to my pull list last month for the E-2 Superman story, so I decide to keep them on order -- mostly for Busiek's contribution.

SUPERGIRL #7
I'm real curious as to why the figures are blacked out in the cover image since the solicitation copy says exacty who the characters are: Supergirl & Power Girl posing as Nightwing & Flamebird in Kandor. Well, I'm a sucka for N&F from back in the Superman Family days, so I add this book to my pre-order, even though, up until now, I have been more or less trying to pretend that this 15th try at a post-Crisis Supergirl did not exist.

AQUAMAN: SWORD OF ATLANTIS #40
This one is a new add for my pull list, and one I am really looking forward to. I'm digging on the whole underwater sword & sorcery/John Carter, Warlord of Atlantis angle, and the Butch Guice cover has an Alex Raymoond vibe that really gets my fanboy juices flowing. Considering that Aquaman kinda sorta never really had a Silver Age reboot, I think it's high time he got "re-imagined."

BLOOD OF THE DEMON #13
I've been with this book since #1, although I too don't expect it to last much longer. I do like it, but I liked Byrne's Doom Patrol as well, so what do I know?

BLUE BEETLE #1
I add this one just 'cause... even though it gives my a quesy feeling. Giffin has run cold for me recently and the whole symbiotic packpack thing makes this look more grim 'n gritty early 90s than the new heroic era I thought IC was supposed to usher in. I expect by issue #4 the sales to retailers on this will only be about half of #1's numbers, and I may well be part of the reason why.

FIRESTORM THE NUCLEAR MAN #23
Loved the original series that got killed in the DC Implosion, have pretty much hated every version since. No reason to add this now.

GREEN ARROW #60
Not a Judd fan even when his main character doesn't have a role that gives the writer extra opportunities to push his hyper-liberal claptrap. I mean, a little liberal claptrap is okay, but, ultimatly, I want to read escapist fantasy, not the writers worldview on how conservatives are the root of all evil, even if they are, becasue there are plenty of liberal losers at the political troft, as well. When I want politics in my comics I'll go re-read Ditko's Question.

GREEN LANTERN #10
I'm still avoiding this title due to DC's price-gouging on the $3.50 first issue. I refused to pay that much for a standard-sized comic (who gives sh!$ about a heavy-stock cover?) and, having passed on #1, have never found good enough reason to buy subsequent issues.

HAWKGIRL #50
Hawkman was already on my pull list, so it stays, even though Chaykin's last five or six projects have been virtually unreadable.

MANHUNTER #20
I dropped this around issue #5. I just thought the main character was pretty unlikable. I'm sort of old-school in that I like my heroes to be, well, you know, all heroic and stuff.

JSA #83
Was already on my pull list. Pretty pumped for the coming of His Majesty, Lord Levitz.

JSA CLASSIFIED #10
Bought the first arc and then the title got squeezed out of my budget by other things. I think I dropped it to add a couple of Speakeasy books. No reason to add it back on that I can see in the solicitation copy here.

SUPERGIRL & THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #16
I'm a total LSH geek. If I was shopping at your store, you could feel pretty comfortable adding any Legion related item into my file, no matter how minor or anal-retentive, even if I miss it on my pre-order.

OUTSIDERS #34
Not a fan of Judd. Not a fan of Nightwing. Really, really, don't like the illegitmate adult child of Black Lightning thing, since it really, I think, bastardize's the original concept of that character. I have just never ever found a reason to want to read this book, especially now.

TEEN TITANS #34
I've actually been looking for an excuse to drop this title for awhile. Johns' scripts just seem to take forever to get anywhere and then wrap-up out of nowhere. Still, a possible new line-up, Doom Patrol and Titan's East all push a few of my fanboy buttons.

FYI: other things that end up on my pull list from DC.

All-Star Superman #3
(Light years better than the god-awful All-Star Batman)

Showcase Presents The Superman Family
(Not sure why, especially given the contects, this couldn't have been Showcase Presents Supeman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen)

Infinite Crisis #6
(Well... DUH)

Jonah Hex #5
(Great art. I like that they are at least trying to do self-contained, one-issue stories, but the ones so far have not been real strong)

JLA Classified #18 & 19
(Added to my pull list for this arc simply for the Garcia-Lopez art, even if Janson is kind of F#@$ing it up)

Showcase Presents Teen Titans
(Putting out two Showcase vols. in one month really strains my budget. I may end up cutting this by my order deadline and giving it a STAR backorder at some later date)

Sgt. Rock: The Prophecy #3
(Looking forward to this)

Warlord #2
(Want to try it but sort of expect I'll end up dropping it before issue #10)

Justice League Unliminted #19
(Added this to my pull list a couple of issues ago for the Freedom Fighters. Meant to drop it but then they had Space Cabby. Mean to drop it again but now they have Bat Lash. Will drop it next month unless they again have some cool guest-star I can't resist)

The Spirit Archives Vol. 18
(I got all of these so far and yes, I do go over budget on the month's one of these comes out)

Thunderbolt Jaxon #2
(On wait and see status, but looked interesting enough)

ABC A to Z: Top Ten and teams
(I'm a softie for the ABC books. Hate to see the line coming to an end)

Other DC thoughts (on things I declined to order)

Batman Secrets/Annual/Legends/Journey/Monster Men/Year One Hundred
(Way, way, WAY too friggin' many Bat-books)

Superman/Batman
(Not a McGuinness fan. Manga inspired art is generally not my bag. Jumped on this title for the LSV arc, and then right back off again)

OMAC Project: Infinite Crisis Special
(I was not able to budget all of the Pre-IC mini series. I chose Rann/Thanager War and skipped the other three, so I skip the related one-shots of the minis I skipped, becasue I can't afford it and I expect not to get too far lost in the actual IC series)

Seven Soldiers
(Dropped this after the first three issues of the first wave on mini series. I personally find most of Morrison's stuff incomprehensible these days. His weird for weird's sake but trust me it'll all make sence at the end may by okay for longer works, but fails, I think, in the serialized format. This series might just as well have been Seven Seaguys)

Wildstorm & Vertigo
(I pretty much avoid all of these titles)

And what other books keep me from spending all of my money at DC?
The Goon, Captain America, The Ultimates, the upcoming Brubaker/Lark run on Daredevil, the occasional Gladstone/Disney book when I can budget one in, Age of Bronze, Rocketo, Spellgame, Althena Voltaire, the upcoming Black Coat from Speakeasy. Defenders and the Monsters event also were recent buys from Marvel. and.... well, all I can think of off the top of my head.

Duke

[Julio Diaz]

From a reader standpoint, I'm already reading all but four of these books: I don't currently get Detective, Aquaman, Blood of the Demon, and (since it hasn't launched yet) Blue Beetle.

With OYL, I will add three (there's no force in the world that could make me buy a book John Byrne is writing these days, so no Demon for me).

Too bad you have such little faith in JSA Classified, Brian. The current Injustice Society story is fabulous, and an idea that I can't believe nobody came up with before - a supervillain "heist movie." Sell it as "The Italian Job" or "Ocean's 11" with supervillains, and I think you'd find that people would be intrigued.

Jen Van Meter rocks the house, and she doesn't get near enough credit. And while I would like to see her writing some more Hopeless Savages (soon, please!), I love what she's doing here, too.

[JLAJRC]

Originally posted by Julio Diaz
From a reader standpoint, I'm already reading all but four of these books: I don't currently get Detective, Aquaman, Blood of the Demon, and (since it hasn't launched yet) Blue Beetle.

With OYL, I will add three (there's no force in the world that could make me buy a book John Byrne is writing these days, so no Demon for me).

Too bad you have such little faith in JSA Classified, Brian. The current Injustice Society story is fabulous, and an idea that I can't believe nobody came up with before - a supervillain "heist movie." Sell it as "The Italian Job" or "Ocean's 11" with supervillains, and I think you'd find that people would be intrigued.

Jen Van Meter rocks the house, and she doesn't get near enough credit. And while I would like to see her writing some more Hopeless Savages (soon, please!), I love what she's doing here, too.

I'm also really enjoying JSA Classified (especially compared to the lame JLA Classified). But from what I'm reading here, I think fans would rather have a Power Girl book than another JSA one.

I'm just going to just keep picking up what I normally get. I'll definately pick up Blue Beetle, but other than that it's the same stuff on my pull list already.

[Johnny Smith]

Originally posted by Julio Diaz
Too bad you have such little faith in JSA Classified, Brian. The current Injustice Society story is fabulous, and an idea that I can't believe nobody came up with before - a supervillain "heist movie." Sell it as "The Italian Job" or "Ocean's 11" with supervillains, and I think you'd find that people would be intrigued.

Jen Van Meter rocks the house, and she doesn't get near enough credit. And while I would like to see her writing some more Hopeless Savages (soon, please!), I love what she's doing here, too.

I'm also a big fan of this Injustice Society arc!

I'm in favor of a sequel ...

[BeastCharming]

I just want to say I'm very much enjoying the current Injustice Society storyline in JSA Classified too. I'd really like an Injustice Society ongoing by Van Meter/Olliffe, it looks and reads great. I've always liked villainous stories and this is a good team and a story solidly told.

Aren't actual readers even more in the dark than retailers, because we often have to preorder too with possibly even less info than they do? They can wait until our preorders are in to order, we have to do so earlier than that. Of course it can cost them more money, but still, the "shot in the dark" goes for both levels of customers, I think. It'd be nice if the publishers were to cooperate some more with their *real* customers though (the retailers, not us). Then again, probably there's a lot of retailers who aren't much more than fanboys gone shop-owner, and I can see why publishers wouldn't be in a mood to spill beans to them that they wouldn't be able to keep to themselves.

Ah, such is life!

Anyway, go Jen Van Meter and Pat Olliffe, more please!

[The Chief]

Blood of the Demon #13: Same writer, same artist… no apparent changes to the book. I sell all of 6 copies of this title, and it will be a Herculean effort to drag it up to the OYL floor of 10. I can’t imagine this book will make it past #18, so why put resources into it?

****

A retailer that gets it...good stuff Brian!

DC has a company wide initiative..everyone is onbaord except for primadonna Byrne who has to stomp his feet and hold his breath when the powers that be tell him to participate in the event.

Very unprofesssional on his part...either way this title as stated above is canned next year.

[Rob Charpentier]

Great column as always Brian, I'm surprised at how close your numbers match with mine. ( although I didn't seem to hold on to as many Legion fans as you did). I was a little worried at first that I would have a hard time sticking to budget with these increases along with the Marvel events starting same month, but my customers have seemed fairly unimpressed with the Marvel side of the catalog so far.

[khuxford]

Originally posted by Brian Hibbs
Hawkgirl #50: Another “Wow, it’s a whole reboot!” as Simonson & Chaykin come on. Which is a real wow creative team. I’m currently selling 12-13 copies of Hawkman a month. This will debut at a minimum of 50 copies, and more likely to go to 60 or even 75. So far, it sounds like the best potential OYL hit.

Wow...I'm no retailer...but I think you're REALLY overestimating this one.

[Kolimar]

Originally posted by khuxford
Wow...I'm no retailer...but I think you're REALLY overestimating this one.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised too but you need to remember he's talking about his sales and he knows his customers. Worldwide sales of Hawkgirl are a different thing. Still, I tend to agree with Brian in that Hawkgirl has a lot of potential, meaning that it's not a sure thing but it has a good chance of making it.

[Kolimar]

Originally posted by The Chief
DC has a company wide initiative..everyone is onbaord except for primadonna Byrne who has to stomp his feet and hold his breath when the powers that be tell him to participate in the event.

Very unprofesssional on his part...either way this title as stated above is canned next year.

[Brian Hibbs]

Originally posted by khuxford
Wow...I'm no retailer...but I think you're REALLY overestimating this one. (HAWKGIRL)

Understand that we sold 45 or so copies of something as generally mediocre as Chaykin's CITY OF TOMORROW -- it seems to me that Howard on something "mainstream" is going to do a lot better.

Will it stick, long-term? Dunno, but it will launch really well, for us.

-B

[khuxford]

Originally posted by Brian Hibbs
Understand that we sold 45 or so copies of something as generally mediocre as Chaykin's CITY OF TOMORROW -- it seems to me that Howard on something "mainstream" is going to do a lot better.

Will it stick, long-term? Dunno, but it will launch really well, for us.

-B

Yeah...sorry, Kolimar reminded me (as you put in your article too) that you're talking ONLY ABOUT YOUR SHOP. So...you're not really overestimating. In the rest of the world, I'd likely suggest shops NOT follow your pattern of ordering on that title.

Thanks for understanding.

[Posco]

I agree that Hawkgirl numbers should not be used by other stores. It will go up a bit but not as much I think.

An interesting question is posed by Catwoman. Normally some readers might give it a try, on the other hand some might drop it because there´s a new person in the costume - so a few issues more than usual. But what if - and we don´t know this - the rumors of Selina being pregnant are true and the father is Batman? That might get additional readers and depending how DC markets it even a little outside media attention.

Personal OYL doesn´t change anything.I already order lots of DC Universe books. Of the OYL titles in the latest Previews I will order exactly the same ones as before. (OK, I´m still thinking about trying Aquaman).

I dropped a number of DC titles just before OYL (Teen Titans, Outsiders, Nightwing, Batgirl). There seems to be no OYL-justification to return to them.

So DC gained nothing in my case from this event. (I know they sold lots of additional stuff thanks to the new Crisis but not in my case.) Actually it might lead to me buying a rather high number of titles no longer. If the new DC trend of valueing events more than characterizations continues I will have to reevaluate quite a number of titles.

[Kolimar]

Originally posted by Posco
But what if - and we don´t know this - the rumors of Selina being pregnant are true

Originally posted by MattBrady

WP: Yes, now that the birth announcement has been printed by Wizard, apparently I can reveal the big news that half of cyberspace already guessed. Selina is indeed having a baby.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/show...threadid=52812

[khuxford]

Originally posted by Kolimar
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/show...threadid=52812

I think you missed the crucial "and it's Batman's child" part of that posters statement.

[Michael C Lorah]

Originally posted by khuxford
Wow...I'm no retailer...but I think you're REALLY overestimating this one.

I'm no retailer either, but from the perspective of at least one reader, here's my thoughts on Hawkgirl-
I don't read monthlies, but I'll be making an exception for Hawkgirl. And only Hawkgirl. Because I'll buy anything that Walt Simonson does and almost anything that Howard Chaykin works on.

Other OYL stuff of note to me:
-Batman by James Robinson - tpb is a near certainty, so points for DC there.
-Superman by Busiek/Johns - tpb is a near certainty here as well, but I'm always a threat to buy a Superman trade. So no change.
-Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis - tpb rates a distinct maybe, depending on budget and word of mouth during the month of release. Potential points for DC here.

Cancellations of Gotham Central and Plastic Man are losses for DC, although the tpbs are so far behind that DC still has plenty of material left to use to swindle me out of my dollars!

The other books weren't generating any interest and nothing that I've seen indicates any change OYL in my interest level.

Non-OYL DCU books of note-
Paul Pope and Matt Wagner doing Batman minis is an easy choice (either of them doing anything is an easy reason to pick up a book!), both All-Star titles and Seven Soldiers will get at least a one-tpb chance, and Kubert's Sgt. Rock is a guaranteed sale.