Morrisons X-men: The worst ever?

[sikokun]

I have read X-men for well over a decade. I have read most of the series run and thought i would never put down the title.
In the late 90's things got bad and the X-men books started to take a turn for the worst. when my fav creative teams left and they were replaced by rotating teams which never lasted more then a few months, i dropped the books(uncanny and x-men).

Now i'm trying to give the X-men books another chance but one thing has bothered me and i just can't get over it.
Grant Morrison.
He took the X-men and made them into a Joke. There is not one thing his done with the X-men in he's entire run that i liked, execpted mabye the Xorn "revalation". He doesn't care about characterization or even writing good storys just writing his wierd ass veritgo style stuff which IMO sould stay over there.
I recently was told that in a issue of X-men Magneto goes about ripping new york apart.
WTF!?!?
Why would magento do this? This is so out of charater for him it's not even funny. Magneto is not a soldier for mutants and waging war on humans is somthing he would not do anymore.

Alot of people tell me that morrision is the best thing to happen to X-men, but you wanna know something funny?
All those people are new to X-men. most of them never read pre-morrison stuff. One thing i always hear is
"I like how morrision has mutants that aren't all cute and stuff. mutants that are ugly and have wired powers."
Well what the hell are the Morlocks? aren't they ugly and wired enough? and don't even get me started on second mutations....

Is there anyone else out there who hates morrions run on the x-men or whom want's the argue the other side?

[arthur pendragon]

Well, I'm the guy who started the destruction of New York thread, and yes, I have been disappointed in Morrison's work on the book, but because his Animal Man work once meant so much to me, I stuck it out this far even though I dropped the book during the Bachalo story. Bad art and padding was more than I could handle.

I think Morrison wants to make a mark on the X-book with 'his Magneto story' and the destruction of New York is all part of it. Morrison acknowledged in an interview that he dusted off many older concepts for his run.

Love triangles, the Phoenix Force, a villain in armor… all these plot elements have been said by some to be rehashes of the Claremont/Byrne years on "Uncanny X-Men," and while Morrison isn't surprised, he has suggestions for anyone feeling that way, also addressing the idea of "continuity." "The comics audience is supposed to turn over every few years. Anyone who's still reading and can remember all this old stuff is likely to be disappointed by repetition and should probably move onto different kinds of comic books - there are only six plots in the world after all and in the X-Men there are probably only three. It's impossible to radically change the franchise - Marvel's licensors get twitchy if Wolverine's hairstyle changes slightly and forcers them to make millions of new slurpeee cups and lunch boxes. When characters become lucrative corporate franchises the pressure is on the company to never, ever change what makes them tick. Be thankful for the miracle of creativity that allows you to see even a very slightly different take on Wolverine or Cyclops or Beast.

I'd say that judgements of best and worst are subjective, and that no matter which side you come down on, the franchise will endure Morrison's leaving the title.

Lastly, these images of destruction don't do a thing for me. It's not like I feel a damn thing when he destroys New York. It's just like a summer movie where big explosions/CGI is the main thing and the script is an afterthought, if that.

[Snakefish]

Originally posted by sikokun

Now i'm trying to give the X-men books another chance but one thing has bothered me and i just can't get over it.
Grant Morrison.

He took the X-men and made them into a Joke. There is not one thing his done with the X-men in he's entire run that i liked, execpted mabye the Xorn "revalation". He doesn't care about characterization or even writing good storys just writing his wierd ass veritgo style stuff which IMO sould stay over there.

Alot of people tell me that morrision is the best thing to happen to X-men, but you wanna know something funny?
All those people are new to X-men.

Is there anyone else out there who hates morrions run on the x-men or whom want's the argue the other side?

You know, I'd like to start off by saying first that I think Grant Morrison is quite a good writer. I really thought he hit an unforgettable stride with his run on JLA. Perhaps the best JLA I've read.

I think that his "Vertigo" influences were toned down just enough for the Metas, but turned up just slightly enough to make it a perfect fit - in other words, he wasn't beating us over the head with his Vertigo-self, he was cranking it up to eleven for the Metas.

I think that the problem though, is that this wasn't the case with New X-Men. With his X-Men run, it always seemed to me like he was seeing how far he could insert his personal eccentricities into the mutants that so many of us know and uphold.

Rather than really concentrating on who the X-Men truly "are," he appeared to me to be trying as hard as possible to turn them into who they "aren't."

Now for any characters of his own, I think these stories could have been great. But come on, for the X-Men? Yeah. I can see your point about alot of the issues you brought up. I really didn't like his run too much either.

But I have to point out, that as much as I also didn't love Morrison's X-Men, it was and still is the only X-title that I still buy. Compared to X-Treme and (I don't even like to say this word) *cough* Uncanny - well, they can't really even be compared in my opinion. What's happened to *cough* Uncanny I feel is just outrageous.

But that's a topic for another time, I guess. Jeez. This whole thing makes me long for the days of the "Age Of Apocalypse."

I loved AOA.

[Snakefish]

I did think of two things just now, two things that I really did like that Morrison did with New X-Men: those were the "new"characterizations of the White Queen and Jean Grey.

Especially the White Queen. Quite nice, in my opinion. I wanted a little more than what we got, though. I wanted him to take the Emma/Jean conflict even farther, I wanted Dark Phoenix.

[paulski]

Originally posted by sikokun
Is there anyone else out there who hates morrions run on the x-men or whom want's the argue the other side?

Score this one for 'the other side'.

He took the X-men and made them into a Joke.

Wrong. He turned the title into a well written comic that didn't just sell well for the hell of it. This is the best the book's been since I started reading it, IMHO. Which was after the Claremont/Byrne era had already ended, I'll happily admit.

He doesn't care about characterization or even writing good storys just writing his wierd ass veritgo style stuff

Wrong. The characterisation has been better on his run than any of that in the past few years before it. I don't understand how people completely overlook this.

Cyclops drifts apart from Jean and forms a bond with Emma as a long term consequence of the Apocalypse possession, and then becomes completely despondent when he gets busted. Jean becomes mentally stronger as a result of Scott's betrayal and almost becomes the motherly figure for the team and school. Wolvie stays the cool guy until he goes a bit nuts when he learns about his past. Xavier gives up his job as headmaster after 'failing' to live up to the role before and during 'Riot'. Emma... man, there's been so much going on with Emma, it's amazing - she's changed from a one dimensional bad girl to someone you actually want to root for (root FOR, I said. Get your collective heads out of the gutter... ). I could go on but if this hasn't proved my point, nothing else I can say will.

I recently was told that in a issue of X-men Magneto goes about ripping new york apart.
WTF!?!?
Why would magento do this? This is so out of charater for him it's not even funny. Magneto is not a soldier for mutants and waging war on humans is somthing he would not do anymore.

Sigh. Wrong. It's ENTIRELY in character for him. Which 'Magneto' are you thinking of?? Just because he went a bit Magneto-lite when he was getting it on with Rogue in the Savage Land and acted as headmaster for a while doesn't mean he's given up the war against Humanity forever. Did you not even read the last storyline before Morrison's run - Edge of Destruction? He was turning Genosha into a mutant state and humans were treated as shit on his shoes. What about the story in UXM #150 where he sinks a sub full of Russian soldiers - in a self-confessed act of war, no less!! What about the Acolytes? Come on, that was only a few years ago. He's always been a prick where us puny humans have been concerned and that'll never change.

Alot of people tell me that morrision is the best thing to happen to X-men, but you wanna know something funny? All those people are new to X-men. most of them never read pre-morrison stuff.

Wrong. I've personally been reading X-Men for 20 years. And I'm obviously not the Lone Ranger in that department. And I can count the number of Morrison projects I've read previously on less than one hand.

One thing i always hear is "I like how morrision has mutants that aren't all cute and stuff. mutants that are ugly and have wired powers." Well what the hell are the Morlocks? aren't they ugly and wired enough? and don't even get me started on second mutations....

The Morlocks aren't even half as interesting as the Special Class and the other new guys Morrison's created. No comparison. And what's wrong with the concept of 'secondary mutations'? Seriously. Is there a reason or is it just too way out there a concept for you to accept as feasible. This is comic books, remember. There aren't really that many rules and those that are there, are there to be broken.

[Xaraan]

First off, let me say I've read mostly X-men (15 years), moreso than Morrison, and the Morrison I've picked up is because of wanting to try his other stuff or because I've heard it's good.

I think that New X-men is written better by Morrison than it has been in a looooooooonnnnnnng time. I also think it is better than Uncanny and X-treme right now. That being said, it's also not as good as most of Morrison's other work. I think he did put a little too much of his "weirdness" into the book. Maybe since he was writing mutants, he figured it fit; but I feel he went just a tad too far.

The characterization in this book is good though. He put some of them through a lot, but I think character wise; this is pretty spot on.
I didn't think that Magneto was out of character in what he is doing now either, especially considering he has a drug problem. Kick.

The one problem I have, and it's small because I at least like that he has shook the book up a bit, are the freaky mutants. I get the impression that he is going to put things together back the way he found them before he leaves the title, but this is the one thing that seems like it will continue; so that is why it bothers me. I have no problem with a special class of weird looking mutants, but they seem to be dominant over normal looking ones now and it has made it's way into other books a bit as well. And I am not fond of the secondary mutation thing either. Just seems like you don't need to make up another way for writers to just break the rules of the reality that they have to work in to change things as they see fit. I have less a problem with the way Morrison dealt with it though; I believe it is bad because it has made it's ways into other books as well. Angel in Uncanny coming to mind. The one thing I hate about mainstream comics is that they never have lasting changes. They took one of the few character changes that had stuck around, archangel, and slowly changed him back to as if he never even knew who the horsemen were. I hate this kind of thing, It reeks of the constant resurrections and the like. I like to see character changes (Morrison has definitely done this), but if they are not going to matter and not be permanent, why should we care about the story or characters?
Everyone that reads X-men has their favorite character. If you know your character will never go through anything too life altering to change him from what he is and you know he will never die, why do you read about him or her? If these great stories they fight through have no affect on them, why be interested in that great story? And unfortunately, Morrison has nothing to do with this, so much of his characterization and changes will probably wear off soon enough.

[hjcho]

Morrison got me reading X-Men again after swearing off them completely for ten years. I got in during the Claremont/ Byrne glory days, rode through the Jim Lee glory days, and bailed during the lean Nicieza/ Lobdell years. I've read the first three trades, and I've enjoyed Morrison's story - it is smarter and more relevant to today's audience than most comics. It is a fundamentally different kind of story than Doom Patrol or Animal Man, so I wouldn't compare the two directly, but it retains his flair for the weird and philosophically complex without sacrificing characterization and plot. Obviously, most of the story rotates around the Jean/ Scott/ Emma love triangle, but it is a concrete, easily accessible handle for readers.

I think Morrison has updated the "human rights" 70's-type metaphor to one that is more relevant to current social problems - how to accomodate many different cultures in a shrinking world. It's not MLK vs. Malcolm X or us vs. them anymore, but rather "can we all get along?"

I cannot comment on the last two trades or current issues yet, but the first three trades were enjoyable. The only problem I have with them is the art, which I have commented on elsewhere.

[dj_me]

Let me start by saying I have truly enjoyed Morrison's run with the X-franchise. He has taken characters that I've always hated (Cyclops & Beast to some extent) and characters that I felt were stiff (Jean & Emma) and given them a super-charge. Cyclops has become one of my favorite characters and Jean is going to 'blowup' soon (if she's alive still). I'd never had thought that I could care for these characters, but now I find myself excited to find out what has happened to them.

I will say, though, that I didn't 'feel' too much what Morrison had Magneto do to New York; then again, Mags IS fighting a nasty case of addiction. I felt that issue just didn't have any feeling to it. It sort of felt rushed, but with padding. And, although it came as somewhat of a shocking moment, I didn't really like the revelation that Xorn was and is Magneto. Xorn was a really cool character and I would have much rather him personally turn out to be a bad guy than to have Magneto sort-of resurrected.

On the point of secondary mutation, I think that it is pretty ingenious for the simple fact that is puts a new spin on characters. I mean, it seems like a pretty cool evolution for Angel and Beast, they seem to be enjoying their secondary mutation and using it to their advantages. As for Iceman's, who isn't really comfortable with it, I think it's very interesting to see the other side of the coin. I believe that this could lead to Iceman finally realizing his potential (can you tell I'm an Iceman fan).

You know, I just realized that the only secondary mutation that Morrison has done is Beast's. The others have been Austen's doing (and, so you know, I've somewhat liked his run as well). So yeah, I can't blame this one on Morrison, other than Beast (who looks freakin' cool)

Another point I'd like to make is that I loved when Quitely and Kordey was working on the book with Morrison. Their three styles meshed extremely well and ever since, even though the art has been good, it just hasn't fit the story quite right.

The only real fault I've found with Morrison is that it seems like there is always at least one issue in an arc that is extremely padded. And that's it; one issue out of six, that seems pretty good to me.

I'm sorry you all art enjoying this as some of the rest of us are. The problem may be that you all are a little too stuck on what the X-Men were. You have to understand that time passes and things change in comics, just like in the real world. So just sit back and enjoy the ride or get off the train.

Hearing too much b*tching about the X-properties has made me a sour-puss.

[Gregg Cummings]

Originally posted by arthur pendragon
Lastly, these images of destruction don't do a thing for me. It's not like I feel a damn thing when he destroys New York. It's just like a summer movie where big explosions/CGI is the main thing and the script is an afterthought, if that.

Most likely it will have no effect on any other Marvel title.

[cyclopsfan]

Originally posted by Gregg Cummings
Most likely it will have no effect on any other Marvel title.

It already is having no affect on any other title. In New Mutants, prof x is still walking, in NYX, the city of New York is still standing. There is no associated events in any of the X-books these days with the exception of Magma showing up in XXM after being awakened in New Mutants.

[LukeRed5]

How about J. Michael Straczynski as the new writer for X-Men? He took a character like Spider-man that suffered for years of bad storylines and made him fun again. Maybe he can do the same for X-men.

I hope this Magneto storyline ends well. The Silvestri storyline looks cool. Hopefully it pays off.

On a side note, I wish X-treme X-Men was canceled and the two remaining books have a steady team of seven members each.

The Beast should go to the Avengers; Bishop and Sage to SHIELD as mutant liaisons; Northstar and Juggernaut to Alpha Flight; and Emma just goes away.

[manosx]

Morrison's X-Men rocked harder than any other in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooong time. A very, very long time. Really long. I mean long. Like, take whatever you think is long, double that, than make it a little longer. Long long long. L-O-N-G long. (singing) la la la la LONG!!!! (stop singing) Long. Hey Jude long. Long.

[LukeRed5]

Originally posted by manosx
Morrison's X-Men rocked harder than any other in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooong time. A very, very long time. Really long. I mean long. Like, take whatever you think is long, double that, than make it a little longer. Long long long. L-O-N-G long. (singing) la la la la LONG!!!! (stop singing) Long. Hey Jude long. Long.

You present a great argument.

[dollman]

Morrison is one of those writers whose track record for me is hit or miss.

Projects I've enjoyed: Zenith, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, JLA.

Projects that failed for me: Kid Eternity, Marvel Boy, the Filth, and X-Men.

Projects that I'm indifferent to: FF1234, DC One Million

I stuck with his X-Men for the first story arc, but was completely bored with the second.

[Caramuru]

I actually like Morrison's X-Men and I agree with Xaraan in saying it's better than what's been done with them in a long long time.

I don't necessarily love all of Morrison's work. JLA would sometimes annoy me because I found most characters and storylines seem to concentrate to much in trying to measure how mind-boggling all the threats were, how powerful the characters were and how fast (to a decimal point) can Batman come up with a plan to defeat it. There was a lot of bragging in that title. And I think he didn't really know how to develop iconic characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, et al without going for the most bizarre use of their powers possible. I liked his Animal Man and Doom Patrol. I thought The Invisibles, DC 1000000 and FF 1234 were so-so. Marvel Boy's only good point was J.G. Jones's art.

Now, I think the weirdness and the characterization in X-Men are a better fit. These characters allowed for more room to explore human (mutant) emotion and non-mainstream scientific and philosophical concepts than JLA, for example. There's something about super-heroes and their realities that should be mind-expanding for the people who are exposed to them and Morrison incorporates that well enough in the X-Men.

I also think that even seemingly rehashing old plots, he's also making his mark with the book. The emphasis on the school as a place for new ideas to be discussed and even for some radicalism to take place in is fairly realistic in the sense that it would be close to what would really be happening in such place.

If there's one thing I don't like about his X-Men is the "secondary mutation" thing. It seems more like a way to gratuitously change characters you don't find appealing than something which should be consistent with the Marvel idea of mutants.

And well, I'm not too thrilled by constantly seeing earth-shattering events in comics. I'm talking about the kind that makes it impossible for things to a) still resemble our reality as far as people's world view are involved and b) another writer to try to "go back to basics" and still write these characters pretending they haven't changed with the experience. I could understand how seeing Genosha destroyed could send Magneto over the edge, but after seeing what he did to Manhattan he kind of lost that great villain quality which is that you can see that sometimes he has a point. But that's so Morrison. I lost count of how many times he blew up a city with nuclear weapons in the DC universe.

[sikokun]

I don't hate Morrison as a writer, his JLA was good stuff.
I just don't like his X-men.
Morrison did rewrite the charaters for no reason.


It's ENTIRELY in character for him. Which 'Magneto' are you thinking of?? Just because he went a bit Magneto-lite when he was getting it on with Rogue in the Savage Land and acted as headmaster for a while doesn't mean he's given up the war against Humanity forever. Did you not even read the last storyline before Morrison's run - Edge of Destruction? He was turning Genosha into a mutant state and humans were treated as shit on his shoes. What about the story in UXM #150 where he sinks a sub full of Russian soldiers - in a self-confessed act of war, no less!! What about the Acolytes? Come on, that was only a few years ago. He's always been a prick where us puny humans have been concerned and that'll never change.


Okay i didn't like the magneto war or what ever the hell it was called for the same reason. Magneto is not a man of war. If anything he hates it. That's the core of the character, he is this person whom has seen the horror of war first hand but will still resort to violent means if he needs to. And what ever happen to charater growth? Magneto saw that his way was wrong and gave Xaviers way a try, it didn't work so he left to game and went to space. The acolytes were not about raging war on humans when magneto was in charge. They just protected mutants with extrem means.
The only times the Acolytes outright attacked humans for no reason other then they thought they were better was under Cortez and then Exodus rule.

Magneto doesn't like humans true, but killing people for no reason other then the fact that there human is something Magneto would NEVER do. Why? Because that would make his just like the hated nazi's that killed his family....

And in the story you speak of Magneto was defending himself after asking the worlds nations to disarm there nuclear weapons for world peace.
I think that's pretty damn noble for a guy who just kills people for begin human. His reaction was a little harsh (as always) and misguided but, his movties were pure.

If the end Magneto want's what Xaviar wants. peace between mutant and human. He just has a different way of going about it.

And when the hell does Magneto do drugs? is that not the most out of charater thing for him to do!?




Oh yeah and a question. why the hell would beast 2nd mutate into a more beastly form? His mutant power is agilty and streagth. the whole fur and pointy ears came from an accident when trying to get rid of his mutant powers. So his second mutation should have to do with his powers right? not his apperence inless it was orginally affected by his powers, which it was not.

Pointless.

[cyclopsfan]

The Magneto War was before Morrison's run, or am i completely insane?

[toolverine]

And when the hell does Magneto do drugs? is that not the most out of charater thing for him to do!?

Consider this, maybe Magneto is just like any other person and managed to get himself addicted to drugs. I've known people who I thought would never do drugs in the first place and ended up becoming addicted. I didn't think that that was 'in character' for them to do that. Or maybe he's just addicted to the power that the kick brings him.

[manosx]

Originally posted by sikokun
I don't hate Morrison as a writer, his JLA was good stuff.
I just don't like his X-men.
Morrison did rewrite the charaters for no reason.


Okay i didn't like the magneto war or what ever the hell it was called for the same reason. Magneto is not a man of war. If anything he hates it. That's the core of the character, he is this person whom has seen the horror of war first hand but will still resort to violent means if he needs to.
Magneto doesn't like humans true, but killing people for no reason other then the fact that there human is something Magneto would NEVER do. Why? Because that would make his just like the hated nazi's that killed his family....

If the end Magneto want's what Xaviar wants. peace between mutant and human. He just has a different way of going about it.

And when the hell does Magneto do drugs? is that not the most out of charater thing for him to do!?

Sorry, dude, but your wrong. Magneto is a man of war, he's a man of action. HE doesn't want to see peace between mutant and human, he want's mutant domination and the species of man either slaves or wiped from the earth. He has said so repeatedly. He has also said many times over that his time on Xavier's side has taught him the futility of that side.

Magneto doesn't see that his hatred of mankind does make him just like the Nazi's he hates. That's the core of his character. And when the hell does anybody do drugs? Is it really in character with anybody unitl they start doing it? You can't make a case for character growth on one side than say that something that shows characer growth (i.e. a new drug addiction) is implausible.

[cyclopsfan]

Originally posted by manosx
That's the core of his character. And when the hell does anybody do drugs? Is it really in character with anybody unitl they start doing it? You can't make a case for character growth on one side than say that something that shows characer growth (i.e. a new drug addiction) is implausible.

Magneto does have a precedent for using things that will enhance his power. 1. He built that machine that was going to enhance it. 2. He used Fabian Cortez to boost his energy levels. To see him use "Kick" because it raises his mutant power lever does not surprise me, and really fits in to what he has done in the past.

[CATMAN3]

Originally posted by sikokun

Grant Morrison.
He took the X-men and made them into a Joke.

No,the X-BABIES were a joke.

[Zeus]

Naw, Morrisons work on New X-Men was a joke.

I had a thread much like this going on...called the Craptacular X-Universe. But hey, you cant fight it. Morrison is off in a few months, and then hopefully someone will bring back the blue and yellow spandex of yesteryear. God i miss that stuff.

Theres no way to win this argument. The people, myself included, who like the straight forward superhero stories miss their x-men, and hate how grant Morrison had Wolvie kill jean and then burn up into the sun in the last issue. Such crap. And dont get me started on continuity...

Those who like this new approach...well, you've got your almost 3 year run or whatever on New by Grant. Maybe the new scribe will be able to keep both sides happy...buut i doubt it.


Oh yeah...and i STILL fuckin' hate that Magneto is in a god-damn DRESS.

[StoneGold]

No, a joke is what's black and comes in little white cans?


Michael Jackson

[tralfaz]

I enjoyed Morrison's run

all the haters dislike it because they hate change

doesnt matter now sine the X books will be returning to status quo pre-NEW X-MEN and we'll get the same superhero recycled crap all over again.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by tralfaz
I enjoyed Morrison's run

all the haters dislike it because they hate change

doesnt matter now sine the X books will be returning to status quo pre-NEW X-MEN and we'll get the same superhero recycled crap all over again.

YAHOO!!!