MY EPIC POSTMORTEM

**MattBrady** · 11-14-2003, 12:16 PM

by Mike San Giacomo

What a week.

For those of you coming in late, one week ago today I learned that Marvel had decided not to publish Phantom Jack as (at least) a five-issue series but as part of a four-comic anthology.

I balked, since that was not the agreement I made almost a year ago when I first signed onto the Epic experiment. Luckily, the good folks at Image agreed to publish Phantom Jack and Marvel agreed to release myself and the PJ crew from our contracts.

Even as I type this, Ray Dillon is re-lettering the first issue to change from Marvel’s exclusive fonts into regular fonts. He then will send the final, high resolution copies of the pages over to Image. The first issue comes out in March, just a few weeks after what would have been the Epic release.

Dillon, like artist Mitch Breitweiser, has worked with Image so he’s familiar with the processes.

Readers have asked about the deal. It’s pretty simple. Image will print the book and take a share of the sales up front, they get the profits from the first certain number of books sold. I’m not being coy here, but I don’t really know what that number is, but it amounts to $2,500.

After that, we split the rest along the same lines as established for the Epic contract. It’s a pretty simple, logical arrangement.

The series can go on as long as it’s financially feasible for Image and the creative team. If sales drop off dramatically, there may not be enough money to justify spending days writing and drawing the work.

That being said, we have some really exciting stuff planned beginning with issue #2.

That’s meat to be a joke, but there is some truth to it.

Phantom Jack #1 is the culmination of months of work with Marvel. Some of the scenes that I wanted in the book were excised during the editing process.

It’s too late to put them back in. Actually, Mitch threatened physical violence if I asked him to redraw the book.

So issue #2 will be closer to my original concept and issue 3 even more so. Mitch has already done layouts for #2, so we won’t change it too much. Issue 3 is wide open and I am trying to figure out how to cram some of the fun stuff that was cut back in.

Also, Image gives us four extra pages to play with so I am writing a mock-up of the newspaper where Phantom Jack works. It will contain articles that relate to the events of the first issue.

Mitch is thinking about a sketch page of some kind.

In any event, this should be a lot of fun.

So for us, everything worked out fine, smiles all around.

But what happened to Epic?

Why did Marvel backpaddle on Epic in the first place?

No one is saying much about it, but new Publisher Dan Buckley said it came down to money. Marvel was spending far more to develop a line of relatively unknown writers and artists than expected and Dan decided to pull the plug.

I guess it is just that simple from a business perspective, but it was not handled well.

A phone call would have been nice, for one thing.

I’ve been reading the messages on these and other boards and really gratified by the support, very cool. A few folks made the point that Marvel does not owe anyone anything, they can publish whatever the way and by whomever they want.

And yes, that’s certainly true. I’m not about to rag on Marvel over Epic. After all, they are responsible for getting me off my duff and writing a comic. Frankly, I had thought about it but I doubt I would have ever initiated it myself. But since they asked…

So I tried out, got further than most, but didn’t cross the finish line. While I was running, someone called off the race.

Not speaking for myself or the PJ crew, the sad part is that the good will that Marvel built up with the Epic project, which offered hopeful writers a chance to be discovered, is lost.

There must have been a better way to end the Epic Journey than by crashing the boat on the shore.

Mike San Giacomo can be reached at mikesang@aol.com

manosx · 11-14-2003, 12:35 PM

Maybe Epic can rise from the ashes, maybe one Buckley has a little time he'll see the light. Or maybe not. My big problem is the professionalism. Why does that seem to plague the comic industry so?

cyclopsfan · 11-14-2003, 12:49 PM

Mike,

Thank you for the class you have showed in this. While you had/and still have every right in the world to have blasted them you have really been an above board professional about all of this. I can't say enough how glad I am that PJ will see print, and can only hope that your professionalism rubs off on others in the industry. Give the PJ crew a shout out as well, I am impressed by all of you guys.

Chris Hunter · 11-14-2003, 12:55 PM

Put me down for Phantom Jack.

Eddy_O · 11-14-2003, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattBrady
by Mike San Giacomo

So issue #2 will be closer to my original concept and issue 3 even more so.

In Canada, most books are about $4. I'm not trying to be negative, but why should I pay $12 to get to the stuff that's closest to his concept?

Chris Hunter · 11-14-2003, 01:05 PM

Give it a try, Eddy. Drop an X-Men title to give this a chance. You may just like it.

Eddy_O · 11-14-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Hunter
Give it a try, Eddy. Drop an X-Men title to give this a chance. You may just like it.

Tell you what. I'll try PJ, but I'll only give it the 3 issue trial. I'm usually HORRIBLE for trying new things, but I'll take you up on the challenge. I've been wanting to drop Venom anyway, so this will give me something to fill in. And I must stress, VENOM IS COMPLETE CRAP!!!!!!!

Chris Hunter · 11-14-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eddy_O
Tell you what. I'll try PJ, but I'll only give it the 3 issue trial. I'm usually HORRIBLE for trying new things, but I'll take you up on the challenge. I've been wanting to drop Venom anyway, so this will give me something to fill in. And I must stress, VENOM IS COMPLETE CRAP!!!!!!!

See? There ya go. Hope you enjoy.

Brian Garside · 11-14-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eddy_O
In Canada, most books are about $4. I'm not trying to be negative, but why should I pay $12 to get to the stuff that's closest to his concept?

Just because issue #3 is closest to the concept Mike came up with doesn't mean issues #1 and 2 are going to suck, they're just a little more removed from his original concept.

I'm really excited about this book, and I haven't been able to say that in an age. I'm just so impressed with the package, and seeing four new voices working in the industry is going to be quite interesting.

I can't believe that your colourist, Jamie, is only 18 years old. I'm so freaking jealous. I did some of the tutorials on his website (artpad.org), and learned so much from them. The kid's 14 years younger than me, and he's already taught me a ton.

Tom Daylight · 11-14-2003, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattBrady
Even as I type this, Ray Dillon is re-lettering the first issue to change from Marvel’s exclusive fonts into regular fonts. He then will send the final, high resolution copies of the pages over to Image. The first issue comes out in March, just a few weeks after what would have been the Epic release.

I guess that means all-capitals lettering? If so I'm a little disappointed; the dual case stuff is a lot easier on the eyes...

cyclopsfan · 11-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fetsur
I guess that means all-capitals lettering? If so I'm a little disappointed; the dual case stuff is a lot easier on the eyes...

amen. I am quite uninformed as far as font copyrights go. Surely it doesn't have to be in all caps now does it?

Hdefined · 11-14-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fetsur
I guess that means all-capitals lettering? If so I'm a little disappointed; the dual case stuff is a lot easier on the eyes...

wow . . .

I don't think people should start jumping down Buckley's throat yet. He got rid of something that he thought wasn't worth it, does anyone forget how many times Jemas did that? (flashbacks, letters pages, inventive covers, footnotes, subplots, etc etc). So wait until Buckley makes any actual statements or CREATES something before you judge him. Remember that the bulk of Jemas negativity really piled on after Marville debuted.

djcoffman · 11-14-2003, 02:32 PM

No no no-- actions always speak louder than words-- Any kinda statement from Marvel just seems like SPIN...

If it was Buckley that took a super instant crap on Epic-- than guess who's the target now? And I think thats only fair, seeing as how Bill Jemas was berated for years. Dude comes out of the gates with a BAD MOVE-- thats not saying he can't make it right-- but in me at least, now they have someone that wont be encouraging people to buy marvel comics. And who cares! Im only one person right? but there are MANY more that feel this way too....

apoehler · 11-14-2003, 02:37 PM

I'm still not gonna buy it, but I have a lot more respect for Mike now. I am still dubious about whether the book will be entertaining coming from a first-time writer, but hey, get to a TPB and get some good reviews and I'll check it out. That was never going to happen at Marvel and he saw the writing on the wall. Good on you.

gwangung · 11-14-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djcoffman
No no no-- actions always speak louder than words-- Any kinda statement from Marvel just seems like SPIN...

If it was Buckley that took a super instant crap on Epic-- than guess who's the target now? And I think thats only fair, seeing as how Bill Jemas was berated for years. Dude comes out of the gates with a BAD MOVE-- thats not saying he can't make it right-- but in me at least, now they have someone that wont be encouraging people to buy marvel comics. And who cares! Im only one person right? but there are MANY more that feel this way too....

Yeah....if he can't take the heat, he shouldn't have gotten the title anyway.

Granted, that this was a predecessor's project; projects rarely survive changes in administration, unless they're mission critical (and EPIC was certainly not mission critical). But there surely were ways to ease this off the stage without making it such a dump job as it appears.

DF2506 · 11-14-2003, 02:52 PM

Question: Will you continue writing this column (under a new name of course) or was that the final one?

I'd understand if it was the final one..since this column was all about the Epic Journey...but imo, it would be very cool to hear more about your IMAGE Journey.

Anyway, very good column.

And I'm glad to hear more about the Image deal and also how the book will get back closer to your vision. Sounds like a really good comic! Can't wait to read it!

DF2506

Jeff Hoffman · 11-14-2003, 02:56 PM

I wasn't going to try this if it was in the anthology book, but I will give it a try now.

BoyWonder · 11-14-2003, 03:13 PM

Everyone is ragging on Buckley, but didn't Joe Quesada have a real dislike for the Epic line? How much was Buckley and how much was Quesada responsible for crashing Epic?

Quesada has been great at getting Established writers to work for Marvel. There have been no big name writers or artists developed under Quesada, they've all come over from DC or Image, where they'd already had critical and commercial success:

Bendis, Powers Image
JM Strazynski, Rising Stars Image
Morrison, JLA DC
Millar, Authority DC
Ennis, Preacher DC
Johns, JSA, Flash DC
Quitely, Authority DC
Hitch, JLA DC
Coipiel, Legion DC

All these books were hits, so it wasn't rocket science to try to get these guys to work at Marvel. Not really that inventive, intelligent but not inventive. The guys Marvel have had success with are Peter Milligan, Bruce Jones and Udon. They were almost unknown before working at Marvel, but they aren't comic superstars like the guys named above.

Also, Quesada totally missed the licensing renaissance with Transformers, GI Joe etc.

I am sad to see Epic go just because Marvel looked to be trying something other than there usual cash cows. It was Marvel taking a risk like DC did back when they developed Vertigo. Not every Vertigo book is good, some are rubbish, but we got Sandman, Preacher, Swamp Thing and other great comics. I'm sorry Marvel gave up trying to be inventive.

Also, I don't understand why Epic comics cost so much to develop? I thought the whole point was that the creators took a lot of the risk, thereby making it cheaper for Marvel to produce the comics?

StoneGold · 11-14-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hdefined

wow . . .

I don't think people should start jumping down Buckley's throat yet. He got rid of something that he thought wasn't worth it, does anyone forget how many times Jemas did that? (flashbacks, letters pages, inventive covers, footnotes, subplots, etc etc). So wait until Buckley makes any actual statements or CREATES something before you judge him. Remember that the bulk of Jemas negativity really piled on after Marville debuted.

Hdefined..... preaching reason..... towards Marvel????

Wow, I feel like one of those computers on Star Trek where it tried to kill them so they asked it to define love and it blew up. They did that what, six or seven times?

Michael P · 11-14-2003, 03:58 PM

Only once or twice. Most of the time they just had Spock do the old "everything I say is a lie" bit.

Eric Palicki · 11-14-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoyWonder

Peter Milligan, Bruce Jones and Udon. They were almost unknown before working at Marvel, but they aren't comic superstars like the guys named above.

B]

I totally agree with the rest of your post, but I wouldn't say these guys, at least Bruce Jones and Peter Milligan, were unknown by any stretch of the imagination... Jones has been working in comics since the 70s and I've been following Milligan since he was writing Shade, the Changing Man, Extremist, and Egypt, all for DC before Vertigo was even an imprint... Just because you weren't familiar, doesn't make them "unknown."

But anyway, I do agree that a) Marvel hasn't taken risks with new blood in awhile b) Epic should've been a lucrative endevour for Marvel. It's failure was most likely due to editorial shortsightedness or general lack of direction, rather than any problems with the Epic model in the abstract.

Eric Palicki

Christian Otte · 11-14-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Palicki
I totally agree with the rest of your post, but I wouldn't say these guys, at least Bruce Jones and Peter Milligan, were unknown by any stretch of the imagination... Jones has been working in comics since the 70s and I've been following Milligan since he was writing Shade, the Changing Man, Extremist, and Egypt, all for DC before Vertigo was even an imprint... Just because you weren't familiar, doesn't make them "unknown."

But anyway, I do agree that a) Marvel hasn't taken risks with new blood in awhile b) Epic should've been a lucrative endevour for Marvel. It's failure was most likely due to editorial shortsightedness or general lack of direction, rather than any problems with the Epic model in the abstract.

Eric Palicki

Marvel has certainly taken a chance with the Tsunami line - Sean McKeever, Andi Watson, Christina Weir and Nunzio De Filippis, Daniel Way and Brian K. Vaughan (I'd say he counts, even though he's becoming more and more popular). The new Spider-Man and X-Men Unlimited series are also meant to showcase new writers, and what about the new Silver Surfer series? Dan Chariton and Stacy Weiss are certainly not someone I knew before that series. Oh, and don't forget the writer who was supposed to take over Fantastic Four, but who's now getting his own new series...

I'd say Marvel are taking chances.

JK Parkin · 11-14-2003, 04:47 PM

Best of luck with PJ, Mike. I look forward to seeing the first issue.

TVerBeek · 11-14-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclopsfan
I am quite uninformed as far as font copyrights go. Surely it doesn't have to be in all caps now does it?

The issue with copyright is that Marvel owns the font that he'd used for the original lettering job (as required by Marvel), so he has to re-do it with another that he still has the right to use. Switching to all-caps is merely an option.

stlfan79 · 11-14-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Palicki
I totally agree with the rest of your post, but I wouldn't say these guys, at least Bruce Jones and Peter Milligan, were unknown by any stretch of the imagination... Jones has been working in comics since the 70s and I've been following Milligan since he was writing Shade, the Changing Man, Extremist, and Egypt, all for DC before Vertigo was even an imprint... Just because you weren't familiar, doesn't make them "unknown."

But anyway, I do agree that a) Marvel hasn't taken risks with new blood in awhile b) Epic should've been a lucrative endevour for Marvel. It's failure was most likely due to editorial shortsightedness or general lack of direction, rather than any problems with the Epic model in the abstract.

Eric Palicki

I was about to say the same thing.

I said on the last PJ thread that I was going to give it a try just because the project kind of got dicked but the more and more I think about it Im going to give it a try just b/c it sounds cool. Plus I need sopmething to do with all the money Crossgen freed up for me.