GETTING TO KNOW ALLAN HEINBERG & THE YOUNG AVENGERS

[MattBrady]

It’s been one of Marvel’s convention season teaser images – horizontal cut images of what kind of look like Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk, but different. The title at the bottom confirms - Young Avengers. Written by Allan Heinberg, and illustrated by Jimmy Cheung, the new series is slated for an early 2005 debut, spinning out of the current “Avengers Disassembled” arc in which Brian Bendis and David Finch are taking the classic Marvel team apart – and putting them back together again with a new #1 in December.

For straight-out comic readers, the writer of Young Avengers is a new face, but expand the pop culture bubble beyond comics, and Heinberg pops up fairly quickly as a television writer (The Gilmore Girls, Party of Five, Sex and the City to name a few). But what gets his star up even higher is that he’s also an Executive Producer on Fox’s The O.C., one of the few breakout hits from the 2003-2004 television season.

As even casual viewers of The O.C. have noticed, the show (specifically relating to the character Seth) is rife with comic book references. That’s Heinberg’s doing. But, lest you think that all you need to do it toss a few comic references into a Fox drama to get a gig on a Marvel book well…well, it helps, but there’s more. A lot more between Heinberg’s start and Young Avengers.

We sat down with the writer for a talk about his start, his career to date, and just what in the heck is this thing called Young Avengers.

Newsarama: Let’s go back to start off. While your current position within television is pretty well known – what came before The O.C. for you. Let’s make with the Allan Heinberg life story…

Allan Heinberg: Well, starting off, I grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where I was a kid actor. I started writing plays and musicals in college, then moved to New York City after graduation to pursue acting and writing professionally. Then, in 1994, I was understudying in Neil Simon's Laughter on the 23rd Floor on Broadway when an off-Broadway theatre company, Manhattan Class Company, decided to produce a one-act play I'd written called The
Amazon's Voice - which had a pronounced Wonder Woman theme running through it. We had an incredible cast - Tim Blake Nelson and Ellen Parker - and an amazing director - Melia Bensussen, and the play's modest success actually generated some modest Hollywood interest.

As a result, I ended up writing a spec episode of Friends, which was then in its first season, to use as a writing sample for television. A year later, through a mutual friend, I met an extraordinary guy named Michael Saltzman. At the time, Michael was writing and co-running Murphy Brown and he was, it turned out, a huge comics fan. Mike very generously offered to read my Friends spec and then was brave enough to hire me to be a staff writer on The Naked Truth, the NBC sitcom he wrote and ran the following year. So, that's how I started writing for television. Believe it or not, that's actually the short version.

Newsarama: From the above mentioned references, I’m guessing that you got into comics early…or did you?

AH: Yeah, I got into comics fairly early and -- ironically -- through television. I was a big fan of the animated Super Friends. I still love those iconic Alex Toth designs. And I loved Adam West's Batman, then in after-school syndication, and Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman. In fact, my very first comic book was Wonder Woman #212 - which featured
the first of her twelve labors to rejoin the JLA after having abandoned her Wonder Woman identity to practice martial arts and wear a white pant-suit. It was a perfect introduction to the character.

NRAMA: I think you might find some who’d think otherwise, but okay. Given what you’ve said and where you are in your career track, you were obviously on a creative path from the start. Did you ever try to write comics, or pitch comics, given your love for the medium, or is this the first time?

AH: Actually, a few years ago, when I was working on Sex and the City, I
had a hand in developing what's now called Kinetic for the DC Focus line. Unfortunately, I eventually had to back out of writing the book because of scheduling conflicts. The good news for comics fans, though, was that the incredible Kelley Puckett re-conceived the book and it's great. Kelley's been one of my favorite writers since his Batman Adventures work with Mike Parobeck. I loved Kelley's Batgirl, too. We've never met, but I admire his work enormously.

NRAMA: So back on to your television career path – how did you end up on The O.C.?

AH: The O.C. came as a complete surprise to me. I'd written a superhero pilot for Fox that same year Josh Schwartz wrote The O.C. pilot, but the network didn't end up making mine. Which was sad-making, to say the least. So, when the network decided to shoot The O.C. pilot, they asked Josh to hire a skeleton crew of writers to develop three more scripts and a thirteen-episode "bible" while he and Doug Liman were shooting the pilot. So, I met with Josh and Stephanie Savage - who'd developed the show for McG's production company. I think at that point, Stephanie and Josh had read one of my Sex and the City scripts and the superhero pilot. And the three of us just kind of fell in love at that meeting and have been working together ever since.

NRAMA: Along with The O.C., you’ve worked on Party of Five and The Gilmore Girls, but, aside from Sex and the City, which is tough to lump in with the rest, you’ve shied away from the machine of tv – the half hour sitcom - for the drama. Why’s that?

AH: Well, traditional four-camera sitcoms usually require their writing staffs to deliver what are called "hard jokes" -- jokes with clear set-ups and punchlines -- and, sadly, I'm just not built for that. I have no talent for hard jokes. I've always been more useful on single-camera dramatic comedies like Sex and the City or comic dramas like Gilmore Girls and The O.C., where the comedy is an organic extension of the characters and the storytelling.

NRAMA: Alright – we probably can’t dance around this one any longer – the comic references on The O.C. - how many are you responsible for, and what makes the cut?

AH: Writing The O.C. continues to be an extremely collaborative process, and all the writers on staff try to bring as much of their personal lives to bear on the characters' stories and experiences as possible. And Josh has very generously allowed me to share my passion for comics and super heroes with the character of Seth Cohen. So, I started the comics ball rolling - giving Seth a healthy interest in the Legion, Titans and, of course, all things Bendis - and I'm very grateful that Josh and the rest of the writing staff have run with it.

NRAMA: Some have compared the comic book references in The O.C.> to missionary work of sorts – that is, comics aren’t enjoying the highest readership ever, and here, you’re showing the cool kids reading and into comics. Was sharing the medium with viewers, or at least getting them intrigued ever a motivation for you, or are the references just in there to flesh the characters out?

AH: The truth is, the comics thing simply started as a way to explore and develop Seth's character. For me, personally, it was a way into Seth. Over the course of the season, however, Seth did evolve into a comics ambassador of sorts. He's gotten his adopted brother Ryan into comics, bonded with his girlfriend Anna over them, and even managed to get the elusive Summer to sit still long enough to watch one of my all-time favorite episodes of Batman: The Animated Series.

NRAMA: So from The O.C., how did you hook up with Marvel?

AH: The first person I actually spoke with was the very kind Teresa Focarile, who was doing development for Marvel at the time. Teresa contacted my agent after Wizard writer Mike Cotton wrote a very kind article about The O.C. and the similarities between Seth's favorite writers and artists and my own. I later found out that Teresa called me because Marvel staffer C.B. Cebulski was a big O.C. fan also. He'd read the Wizard article and wanted to know if I had any interest in sitting down with the folks at Marvel and maybe writing something for them.

NRAMA: How long were you talking to Marvel before someone suggested that you should be writing something for them?

AH: I was in New York last fall for Thanksgiving and got a chance to sit down for a general meeting with C.B., Teresa, Joe Quesada, Dan Buckley, David Bogart, and several other very kind Marvel staffers. We sat in Joe's office and talked about comics and TV. I got to ask a lot of geeky, fanboy questions -- most of them, it turned out, about Brian Bendis.

NRAMA: So that’s something that Seth and you do share?

AH: You bet. Brian's work had really struck a chord with me over the past
few years. I truly felt - and still feel - indebted to him for the amount of pure comics pleasure his books have given me. Alias, in particular. In fact, I think Alias may be my favorite narrative experience in any medium in the past five years. So, I asked Joe a lot of questions about Brian. About his schedule, his process. Was he really as mean in person as he was in the Powers letter column? Stuff like that.

Joe was very patient with me. He answered all my questions, asked me almost as many about writing for TV, and then asked if I had any interest in writing a project for Marvel. It was this fanboy's dream-come-true. Joe and everyone at Marvel were so incredibly smart, passionate, and articulate about the industry and artistry of making comics. I'd gone into that meeting resolved to tell Joe that a monthly book would be impossible for me because of my O.C. writing commitments, but by the time I left the building, I was writing a book for Marvel. I didn't know which one or when, but I was definitely writing a book for Marvel.

NRAMA: So it was left up in the air after the meeting?

AH: Right. At that point, we agreed that I'd go away, finish the O.C. script I was
writing, and think about pitching something. Maybe a six-issue mini-series I could write over hiatus. Joe and the guys at Marvel said they'd think about it, too, then we'd all get together over Christmas and compare pitches.

NRAMA: So how did this then turn into Young Avengers? Were you talking to Brian about “Avengers Disassembled” and the fallout of that storyline from the start and thought this would be a cool idea all on its own that was later folded into Disassembled, or what?

AH: No, what happened was, when I came back to New York in December, Teresa called to let me know that Joe had an idea he wanted to pitch me. She asked if I could show up at Joe's office first thing the next morning to discuss the pitch. Which she told me was a secret. So secret that she couldn't even give me hint over the phone. I was definitely intrigued.

So, I showed up at Marvel early the next morning and sat down with Joe and Teresa. Joe then dialed a long-distance number on his phone and put it on speaker. When the call connected, the voice on the speakerphone said, "Hey, Allan, it's Brian Bendis." Joe looked at me and smiled, pleased by the stunned expression on my face. Brian was on the phone being very nice about the fact that I had named one of the teachers on the show after him. I stammered incoherently. I have no idea what I said, actually. Mostly I just listened as Brian and Joe explained their rough plans for the “Avengers Disassembled” event. Brian said the idea had come out of a recent Marvel company retreat, and he and Joe wanted me to create a book that would come out of the event. I asked what book, and all Joe said were the words Young Avengers.

That was it. No pitch. Just an idea for a new book about a team of teen Avengers. Joe and Brian said that the premise of the book and its characters would be entirely up to me. I could use existing heroes, create new ones, whatever I wanted. Plus, Joe said, since the Young Avengers book would be tied into what Brian was doing with the Avengers, Brian and I would be in regular phone contact, pitching and developing ideas together. At which point, he gave me Brian's phone number. It all happened incredibly quickly.

NRAMA: So, aside from being a little starstruck, what was your immediate response to the idea?

AH: Well, when Brian got off the phone, I felt obligated to tell Joe -- as politely as possible - that, although I was incredibly flattered by the opportunity, I actually had no earthly idea how to write a book called Young Avengers. I also confessed that I would probably never even buy a book called Young Avengers unless it was written by a writer I knew and loved. And, let's be honest, nobody in comics knows or loves me.

So, we talked about it. I presented all my reservations about the book. That it sounded to me like a blatant rip-off of Teen Titans - a book I love written by Geoff Johns, who's a close friend. Then, even if you figure out a way to do the book that doesn't rip off Titans, there's the problem of who are these young Avengers? Where do they come from? Marvel has no established teen sidekicks from which to build a team. And if you create a team of all-new heroes, why should anyone care about them? And furthermore what right do these kids have to call themselves Young Avengers? Joe agreed with all my points, but he said he felt confident I'd find a way to address them. And if I couldn't, he promised we'd find something else to work on. He was incredibly cool about the whole thing.

NRAMA: And left you to your own devices? For you, I’d imagine a new Marvel book, with Avengers ties, and also working with Bendis would be a hell of a brass ring not to reach for…

AH: Right on all counts. So, I went away for a week, trying to figure out who these kids might be. And how the book could honor the Avengers legacy while giving new readers a chance to get on board without having to have mastered several decades-worth of Avengers continuity. I looked at all the incarnations of the Teen Titans and tried to zero in on the key to its appeal.

NRAMA: But Joe’s said that Young Avengers isn’t Marvel’s Teen Titans – so there’re differences between the two groups?

AH: Oh yeah. I kept bumping up against the fact that the Titans were a group of established teen sidekicks the audience was already invested in. Apart from Bucky and Toro -- both of whom were long dead -- Marvel had no teen sidekicks. In fact, I'd read an article online talking about how Stan Lee hated the idea of the teen sidekick in comics. I don't know if that's true or not, but it got me thinking about the whole concept the teen sidekick. Personally, I love them. I do. I have a soft spot for the teen sidekick. I've been a devoted Titans fan since I started reading comics. I have a real affection for Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl. And, cynically, yes, they were originally somewhat ill-defined demi-versions of their adult counterparts, though people have been wrestling with the question "Who is Wonder Girl?" for years. But it's tough to deny their wish-fulfillment appeal. Teen sidekicks are in many ways the ultimate fanboys -- super hero fans who've literally earned their wings and become full-fledged heroes in their own right.

That said, I still couldn't figure out a compelling premise for Young Avengers. I'd get frustrated, thinking, "If only the original Avengers had had teen sidekicks..." I kept having this terrible vision of readers at comic book stores across the country - myself included - seeing a book called Young Avengers on the stands and rejecting it out of hand, saying, "Who the hell are the Young Avengers?" And, without giving away anything, that question became the soul of my pitch.

NRAMA: Joe’s also been saying that your pitch for Young Avengers just blew him away, and that it’s the best pitch he’s read since he’s been in the EIC chair at Marvel. C’mon – tease….what are some of the beats that you put in there that freaked Joe out?

AH: Joe's been very kind about the pitch. I can't say much without spoiling the story, but new characters are introduced, old characters are reinvented, Avengers continuity is honored, and new readers won't feel left behind.

I know there are cynics online who are already saying that Young Avengers is a desperate attempt to capitalize on the success of Geoff and Mike McKone's Teen Titans. The truth is, I don't know how you can do a book about a team of teen super heroes and not be compared to the Titans. So, as a huge, lifelong Titans fan, I want the book to acknowledge its debt to Teen Titans even as it reveals itself to be something entirely its own. In the end, though, it's always comes down to characters and the storytelling. I'm hoping readers will give us a chance and allow themselves to be surprised.

NRAMA: You mentioned that you’re friends with Geoff?

AH: Yeah, and Geoff has been unbelievably supportive of this project from its inception. He's maybe the coolest guy in the entire world. And everyone at Marvel adores Geoff and Mike McKone and what they’re doing with the series. Personally, I'm loving their run on Titans, and I can only hope that our book turns out to be half as much fun to read. But while both titles are about teams of young heroes, I think people will immediately see they're different books.

NRAMA: While we’re killing similarities, just as Young Avengers isn’t Marvel’s Teen Titans, it’s also not Marvel’s O.C., right?

AH: Only in the sense that both are serialized romantic, comic relationship dramas. I'm sure there are people who'll say otherwise, but, no, it's not Ryan, Seth, Summer and Marissa with powers. Though that sounds like fun, actually.

NRAMA: Alright – we’ve got what’s it’s not out of the way, so what’s the spin here, what’s the dynamic for the group? Obviously the characters are going to be left for big reveals for #1, but what brings them together?

AH: Again, I don't want to give too much away, but the team is formed in the aftermath of Avengers Disassembled to defend New York - and the world at large - against an attack by a formidable Avengers adversary.

NRAMA: Will the characters have any mentors/adult supervision in there, or are they on their own?

AH: Their relationship to the Avengers will evolve over the course of the first arc. I will say that several classic Avengers appear in the book - and that Brian has given me his blessing to allow Jessica Jones - of Alias and The Pulse to play a role in the kids' lives, as
well.

NRAMA: Any further teases?

AH: There are lots of familiar faces in the first arc. And if I'm lucky enough to get to keep working on the book, I'd love to feature a nice of mix of both new and classic Avengers antagonists.

NRAMA: Wrapping things up, then, is Young Avengers it for you for now, comics wise, or is there more coming?

AH: Because of my year-round commitments to The O.C., my comics writing will be limited to Young Avengers for awhile. And, if the readership supports Young Avengers, I'd love to stay on the book for as long as Joe Quesada and the folks at Marvel will have me. Jim Cheung is an astonishingly talented artist and an inspired and inspiring collaborator. And Joe, Tom Brevoort, and Brian Bendis have all been unbelievably patient, generous and nurturing. I'm very grateful to them for the opportunity to work in comics and to develop this book. Working with these guys has been a dream come true for me.

[cncoyle]

Wow, for a guy that's writing for Marvel, the interview reads like he's promoting DC Comics.

As for Young Avengers, I'd still like some more info before commiting to buying the first issue.

[algertman]

well, i hate the TV shows he is apart of, but i will give this book a shot

maybe it'll surprise me, like Astonishing X-Men, as in hating the TV shows that writer does, but enjoying the comic

[Aaron]

Words fail me. I don't know what's worse... Hulk's earrings or the fact that they got the writer of a series about teens to write a book that no teenager would be caught dead reading.

The Avengers: Disassembled storyline could have been awesome... if it wasn't constantly revealed the new levels of lamitude that Marvel is sinking into it.

Seriously, what kind of pot was Joe Q and the Boiz smoking at this "retreat" to come up with these ideas???

Aaron

[algertman]

but on a down side

hulk, thor and ironman, BETTER not be the real ones

though thor probably is cause he is getting reborn and all

[hudson_pfc]

I'm not a fan of the O.C. but I'll pick up the first few issues of this if just for Cheung's art.

[saiyanspider]

I want to know more about the book. You can't keep saying how good the idea is and not tell use anything beyond "I don't want to spoil the story". Fine but we have NOTHING. Look I'm interested in the book, but I need some more to sustain the interest. Throw us a bone!

[Mister Sinister]

I grew up in Oklahoma just like Allan did, so I will support my fellow Okie, and try the book. Also, Jim Cheung is drawing the book, so you know it will be visually stunning.

[Tyler Smith]

We still don't have much information, so I think it's ridiculous to judge, unless you think the Hulk's earrings are going to be a major plot-point. I'll definitely try this out.

[DrDoom]

I guess it is something like that new x-men title: New x-men who got the title from the original one (with scott summers) and now it is flooded by teens. I guess Marvel has found the market for young teens. A bit late .. almost zillian years after the Teen titans..

ps the new x-men get renummered too: it started again at nr 1.

[Jason Sorrenti]

This is a great interview, you might not know much about the book but you get the love and excitement Allan has for comics, just like everyone people in comics.

The OC is a good "confectionary" tv show (confectionary as in it's sweet, fun and harmless just like candy), so I don't know why there is so much animosity to a tv show that is just trying to entertain the kids. Just laugh it off and have some fun folks.

Jason

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Jason Sorrenti


The OC is a good "confectionary" tv show (confectionary as in it's sweet and fun and harmless like candy), so I don't know why there is so much animosity to a tv show that is just trying to have fun and entertain. Just laugh it off

Where's all this "animosity" toward the OC? One guy said he hated the show, the worst anyone else said was he didn't watch it.

I think more people are just a little peeved that the article was an OC-fest with next to nothing about Young Avengers.

Aaron

[cactusmaac]

Well, I like the OC ("Arm-wrestling classic!") so I guess I'll give this a shot.

[slash]

This was a good interview; I am intrigued about "Young Avengers" and plan on looking at the "OC" now, eventhough I don't usually like that type of show or even the genre.

This could actually turn out to be a good read and a surprising book. I'm glad that Marvel has decided not to release much info about the project as it could destroy some of the impact of the characters and story elements.

[kingofcities]

I was already very curious about this book, but now I am positively picking this up. Between the writers sincere love of comics and the art by Cheung, I am very intrigued.

[Jason Sorrenti]

Originally posted by Aaron
Where's all this "animosity" toward the OC? One guy said he hated the show, the worst anyone else said was he didn't watch it.

I think more people are just a little peeved that the article was an OC-fest with next to nothing about Young Avengers.

Aaron

Sorry Aaron,

I meant in general people look at you funny if you enjoy the OC... sorta like if you tell them you read comic books

[Kon-EL]

geez whats with all the negativity? it sounds like an intresting concept at least. i mean come on the book doesnt even come out til early next year and u narrow minded jackassses are already condemning it. wait til we see the first couple issues then u can talk about how crappy it is (or isnt).

[MikeHuffman]

Originally posted by Kon-EL
geez whats with all the negativity? it sounds like an intresting concept at least. i mean come on the book doesnt even come out til early next year and u narrow minded jackassses are already condemning it. wait til we see the first couple issues then u can talk about how crappy it is (or isnt).

I agree with my fellow Eastern Washingtonian here — how can anyone logically criticize something they know next to nothing about?

I'm intrigued by this — it's sounds like the disdain a lot of people might have for initial concept is actually part of the premise. This is definitely going on my pull list for the first arc anyway.

— Mike

[Joe Henderson]

The OC is a surprisingly well written show. Funny, great characterization...good stuff. I can't wait for this.

[siskods9]

If Young avengers is like the OC i can expect there to be no people of color in the main cast. The show is garbage to me and i hope Young avengers is written better.

[cactusmaac]

Originally posted by siskods9
If Young avengers is like the OC i can expect there to be no people of color in the main cast. The show is garbage to me and i hope Young avengers is written better.

Don't Jews count as a minority?

[Grendel Prime]

I miss the New Warriors.

Seriously.

(I'm talking the Nicieza & Bagley run. When it was good.)

[siskods9]

Originally posted by cactusmaac
Don't Jews count as a minority?

Not one that is excluded from being on television dramas. If you look at the writers and producers and cast members they are fairly represented. And i dont mean silly low budget half hour comedies like black and hispanics are only shown on either.

[Supergirls' Dad]

Allan seems nice enough from this interview.


I would equate this to Young Justice more than Teen Titans. Because it seems that it is to New Warriors as Young Justice was to Titans.

[Simon DelMonte]

I think Marvel SHOULD be ripping off Titans. Which is to say, it comes as something of a surprise that Marvel has the Avengers, the X-Men and the FF as its major super-hero teams, and nothing more. In the stories, it males sense for there to be more teams - there was a time when Marvel had plenty of heroes forming groups and battling evil. Out of the stories, it makes snese since team books sell.

And I'd rather see "teen heroes unite" than another X-book.